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johhdagolfer
11-20-2006, 09:24 AM
Hi guys,

I've taken your suggestion and decided to go with a Lucasi instead of a cuetec. I now have another tough decision. Should I go with a Radial Joint or a Quick loc joint? Does one hit better than the other? what are the advantages of one over the other?

Also, is there an advantage to having one of those slide in hard cases over a simply circular one?

Thanks, John

BTW the cue I chose over the cuetec Thunderbolt is the LE40R I think it looks pretty sweet.

Cornerman
11-20-2006, 09:29 AM
Just a quick hijack... Did you misspell your username when signing up?

Fred <~~~ just wondering

P.S. I think the "R" in the LE40R means "Radial." Hopefully it's not too late, if you decide on the QuickRelease.

bigpocket
11-20-2006, 09:35 AM
Get the radial pin they play great.There is a reason all the cue makers switch to it and it not because of price.JMO

johhdagolfer
11-20-2006, 09:49 AM
LOL I sure did

It took me 8 login attempts to finally realize I mispelled my name

Charlie Edwards
11-20-2006, 09:59 AM
My choice would be the radial.

xidica
11-20-2006, 12:12 PM
My choice would also be the radial. Uni-loc/Quick-release style joints are lackluster and leave much to be desired IMHO.

dave fingers
11-20-2006, 12:36 PM
One bit of concern. Ive seen several radial pins cues made by different makers and I know of only one problem. If the shafts are not made extremely tight then after a few racks, some of them almost vibrate loose. Many people tighten them often due to this. Tony Watsons shaft has 100's of dents in it above the joint because he almost tightens it on every shot. I've not seen this with 3/8 10 pins.
Dave

pfduser
11-20-2006, 04:34 PM
One bit of concern. Ive seen several radial pins cues made by different makers and I know of only one problem. If the shafts are not made extremely tight then after a few racks, some of them almost vibrate loose. Many people tighten them often due to this. Tony Watsons shaft has 100's of dents in it above the joint because he almost tightens it on every shot. I've not seen this with 3/8 10 pins.
Dave
I've had that problem too,but I still perfer radial over any other.

SnakePool
11-20-2006, 06:58 PM
I had a lucasi sneaky with the uni-loc quick release and it hit super good.

I use the uni-loc Radial in all my cues because of weight, gives me the balance I want. I wouldn't hesitate to use the quick release.

ridewiththewind
11-20-2006, 07:09 PM
One bit of concern. Ive seen several radial pins cues made by different makers and I know of only one problem. If the shafts are not made extremely tight then after a few racks, some of them almost vibrate loose. Many people tighten them often due to this. Tony Watsons shaft has 100's of dents in it above the joint because he almost tightens it on every shot. I've not seen this with 3/8 10 pins.
Dave

They say that a very small amount of beeswax applied to the threads will eliminate this.


I currently have a cue with a wood/wood joint with a Radial pin. Everything stays nice and snug...and I check it as a matter of habit, as I have had a 3/8-10 pin loosen on me all the time on a local's s/p. On this particular cue, the shaft goes on snug and stays that way the entire time I am playing with it....Love it!

Lisa

14oneman
11-20-2006, 09:58 PM
When I'm not playing Straight with my Schick, I use a Lucasi L-E28 with a Uni-Loc joint and I LOVE it! It hits GREAT! No problems whatsoever!
I have never cared for Radial pins. I'm not fond of the hit, and IMHO it is the weakest of all the joints.

For an inexpensive production cue, you can't beat Lucasi. I don't think you'll be disappointed.:)

xidica
11-21-2006, 12:07 AM
I'd like a weak joint. Just in case for some reason the cue gets snapped in half ;)

I'd rather the pin break then anything else :p

rackem
11-21-2006, 01:40 AM
LOL I sure did

It took me 8 login attempts to finally realize I mispelled my name
Don't you want to get it right?:D

xidica
11-21-2006, 01:42 AM
LOL. Heck it took me 8 times to make a simple frozen to the rail cut shut earlier tonight, I fixed it though! (by setting it up on the opposite rail...friggin hacked up table...jeez always these crappy tables making me make crappy excuses) :D

buddha162
11-21-2006, 07:13 AM
IMHO it is the weakest of all the joints.

What do you mean by this? Are you talking about the pin?

-Roger

Sharkeyes
11-21-2006, 07:36 AM
I'm pretty sure Tony Watson doesn't own a cue anymore. I noticed he borrows cues from everyone at every tournament he plays in. Also a quick fix if the radial isn't tightning well is to wrap a tiny piece of toilet paper around the pin and screw it in. The paper will semi-adhere to the inside of the shaft and fill in the gaps which might make the cue rattle loose during play. Worked for me on 4 occasions.

dave fingers
11-21-2006, 08:42 AM
Done properly it should fit on snug without using toilet paper or wax. If you have to use any tricks to get it tight then yours must have the hole bored too wide.

tedkaufman
11-21-2006, 09:00 AM
I'm pretty sure Tony Watson doesn't own a cue anymore. I noticed he borrows cues from everyone at every tournament he plays in. Also a quick fix if the radial isn't tightning well is to wrap a tiny piece of toilet paper around the pin and screw it in. The paper will semi-adhere to the inside of the shaft and fill in the gaps which might make the cue rattle loose during play. Worked for me on 4 occasions.

Tony sold his very fancy Josey when he came up short gambling at the US Open. So, unless he's acquired a cue very recently, he's still borrowing cues. I know, because he borrows mine often!

As for his old cue, It's been reconditioned and looks beautiful. I believe the new owner is selling it for $1500. It was available as of Friday, last week.

I've never had a problem with radial pins loosening. Tony does have a habit of tightening his cue often, but that is not so much about the cue's joint as it is about Tony. He even tightens my SW, which never comes loose.

In general, radial joints will not loosen unless the cuemaker cut the shaft threads improperly.

As for uni-loc joints, I think it's a decent joint, but diminishes feedback somewhat compared to radial or other ff wood-wood joints. I prefer uni-loc to SS piloted, though, which, while strong, makes no sense at all to me.

ridewiththewind
11-21-2006, 11:13 AM
What do you mean by this? Are you talking about the pin?

-Roger

I guess I do not understand why the Radial is considered the weakest either. It appears to be an increasingly popular pin amongst cuemakers and players alike...so it doesn't make sense to me that if it were the weakest, why would it be so popular? It makes for a very solid and stable feeling connection...I guess I just do not get it.:confused:

Lisa

BillPorter
11-21-2006, 11:30 AM
I guess I do not understand why the Radial is considered the weakest either. It appears to be an increasingly popular pin amongst cuemakers and players alike...so it doesn't make sense to me that if it were the weakest, why would it be so popular? It makes for a very solid and stable feeling connection...I guess I just do not get it.:confused:

Lisa
At the risk of sounding like a know-it-all, I believe the reason you "just do not get it" is that there is nothing to get. I don't know anyone who is knowledgeable about pool cue say that a Radial pin makes for a weak joint.

twilight
11-21-2006, 11:48 AM
what I would like to know is this. Are cue makers using more and more radial pins because it's "better" than other pins. Or is it more likely that some people out there think the radial pin is better and asking more cuemakers to make thier cues with radial pins. Which is the cause and which is the effect.

I remember reading about a test some time ago where SS and Ivory joints were covered with tape or something and most people couldn't tell what kind of joint it was when they hit with it. If people can't tell the joint sleeve, could they really tell what joint pin was in the cue?

I once had a discussion with a well known cuemaker and he said it's really all mental. If people think radials play better then they should play with a radial pin.

twilight
11-21-2006, 11:50 AM
what I would like to know is this. Are cue makers using more and more radial pins because it's "better" than other pins. Or is it more likely that some people out there think the radial pin is better and asking more cuemakers to make thier cues with radial pins. Which is the cause and which is the effect.

I remember reading about a test some time ago where SS and Ivory joints were covered with tape or something and most people couldn't tell what kind of joint it was when they hit with it. If people can't tell the joint sleeve, could they really tell what joint pin was in the cue?

I once had a discussion with a well known cuemaker and he said it's really all mental. If people think radials play better then they should play with a radial pin. If someone thinks a 5/16x14 plays better then they should use that pin. A good pin is a good pin... as long as it's made well.

ridewiththewind
11-21-2006, 11:55 AM
At the risk of sounding like a know-it-all, I believe the reason you "just do not get it" is that there is nothing to get. I don't know anyone who is knowledgeable about pool cue say that a Radial pin makes for a weak joint.

Thanks Bill....I thought that maybe I was losing it...Lol.:) I could swear that this Josey (who uses Radial pins exclusively, afaik) is the most most solid and stable feeling cue I have ever shot with!

Lisa

JoeyInCali
11-21-2006, 12:01 PM
what I would like to know is this. Are cue makers using more and more radial pins because it's "better" than other pins. Or is it more likely that some people out there think the radial pin is better and asking more cuemakers to make thier cues with radial pins. Which is the cause and which is the effect.

I remember reading about a test some time ago where SS and Ivory joints were covered with tape or something and most people couldn't tell what kind of joint it was when they hit with it. If people can't tell the joint sleeve, could they really tell what joint pin was in the cue?

I once had a discussion with a well known cuemaker and he said it's really all mental. If people think radials play better then they should play with a radial pin. If someone thinks a 5/16x14 plays better then they should use that pin. A good pin is a good pin... as long as it's made well.
By design, I think it's better than the regular 3/8 10. The threads are U shaped instead of V shape. On V shaped threads , the tip of the threads are what mates with the wood. On radail pins, the inside of the pin has more contact with the wood threads. More contact and tighter.
Some problems are due to bad tapping of the shaft in my opinion.
I have found the best way to avoid cross threading is to make sure the first thread on the shaft is deep already or full-size not like a pilot hole.
Loosening can be solved by using the undersized tap or boring the hole a little under 5/16 before tapping.
Or using a phenolic insert solves some problems as well.

ridewiththewind
11-21-2006, 12:02 PM
what I would like to know is this. Are cue makers using more and more radial pins because it's "better" than other pins. Or is it more likely that some people out there think the radial pin is better and asking more cuemakers to make thier cues with radial pins. Which is the cause and which is the effect.

I remember reading about a test some time ago where SS and Ivory joints were covered with tape or something and most people couldn't tell what kind of joint it was when they hit with it. If people can't tell the joint sleeve, could they really tell what joint pin was in the cue?

I once had a discussion with a well known cuemaker and he said it's really all mental. If people think radials play better then they should play with a radial pin. If someone thinks a 5/16x14 plays better then they should use that pin. A good pin is a good pin... as long as it's made well.

I believe that Keith Josey uses Radial pins exclusively, and has for a while. Pat Diveney appears to use the Radial as his primary pin, but he has also used a G-10 pin. I believe that Steve Klein uses a Radial as well. Not to mention our own Kevin Varney and Brent Hartmann...and I am sure I am leaving some out.

Until now, my preferred pin was the 3/8-10...but I gotta say, I like this Radial the best!

Lisa

JoeyInCali
11-21-2006, 12:14 PM
believe that Keith Josey uses Radial pins exclusively, and has for a while. Pat Diveney appears to use the Radial as his primary pin, but he has also used a G-10 pin

Black G10 radials are now available. :)

TIMBER1
11-21-2006, 12:26 PM
I spoke with Jeff of A&E a few years ago about why they used Radial pins. I believe he said radials had the most surface to wood of any pin on the market.
To tighten the joint take thin superglue, place a drop in the shaft and spin a few seconds, and then add the accelerator to harden. If it’s to tight run a tap in by hand.

JoeyInCali
11-21-2006, 12:41 PM
I spoke with Jeff of A&E a few years ago about why they used Radial pins. I believe he said radials had the most surface to wood of any pin on the market.
To tighten the joint take thin superglue, place a drop in the shaft and spin a few seconds, and then add the accelerator to harden. If it’s to tight run a tap in by hand.
Make sure your pin has wax or silicone around it when you drop some superglue down the shaft hole and following it with the butt's pin.
Or just drop a little water in there then empty it out. The wood will swell a little. Make sure you don't wet the face of the shaft.

ridewiththewind
11-21-2006, 12:47 PM
believe that Keith Josey uses Radial pins exclusively, and has for a while. Pat Diveney appears to use the Radial as his primary pin, but he has also used a G-10 pin

Black G10 radials are now available. :)

Mmmmm...black G-10 Radials.:eek: :cool:

JoeyInCali
11-21-2006, 12:48 PM
Mmmmm...black G-10 Radials.:eek: :cool:
I'm getting some made with Prada patterns.:D

ridewiththewind
11-21-2006, 12:55 PM
I'm getting some made with Prada patterns.:D

That's too funny!:D Tried to rep ya for it, but it says I gotta spread the 'luv' before I can rep you again...darn it all!!:mad:

buddha162
11-21-2006, 02:51 PM
I guess I do not understand why the Radial is considered the weakest either. It appears to be an increasingly popular pin amongst cuemakers and players alike...so it doesn't make sense to me that if it were the weakest, why would it be so popular? It makes for a very solid and stable feeling connection...I guess I just do not get it.:confused:

Lisa

I was just wondering what he's referring to when he called a certain type of pin the weakest "joint." It would make no sense to me if he is saying that the Radial pin, regardless of material, is weaker than say, a 3/8-10 of the same material. But if he's saying that flat-faced joints in general are weaker than piloted joints, I would not dismiss it out of hand. I guess it would depend on what he means by "weak."

-Roger

buddha162
11-21-2006, 03:00 PM
what I would like to know is this. Are cue makers using more and more radial pins because it's "better" than other pins. Or is it more likely that some people out there think the radial pin is better and asking more cuemakers to make thier cues with radial pins. Which is the cause and which is the effect.

I remember reading about a test some time ago where SS and Ivory joints were covered with tape or something and most people couldn't tell what kind of joint it was when they hit with it. If people can't tell the joint sleeve, could they really tell what joint pin was in the cue?

I once had a discussion with a well known cuemaker and he said it's really all mental. If people think radials play better then they should play with a radial pin. If someone thinks a 5/16x14 plays better then they should use that pin. A good pin is a good pin... as long as it's made well.

I adhere to the thinking that when it comes to feedback, the joint configeration matters more than the collar material and certainly the kind of pin used. I don't think anyone can tell the difference between a Radial pin and a 3/8-11 (both flat-faced) once the cue is assembled.

But the reason why people can't tell between a ivory piloted joint and a flat-faced steel joint in that experiment is because the joint material/config is only a small part of a cue's distinct feedback. That test did not isolate the factor being tested. I believe that if the same maker, using the same materials and specs/construction with maybe the same Universal shaft can build a series of cues with different joints, and most sensitive players will notice the difference immediately.

From what I understand, many cuemakers switched to Radial pins because it is more precise, and shafts can be tapped perfectly to fit every cue they make. The installation of a Radial pin is also easier, and more precise than rolled versions of 3/8 pins.

-Roger

14oneman
11-21-2006, 03:27 PM
What do you mean by this? Are you talking about the pin?

-Roger


WOW! I guess I opened up a can of worms for all you radial pin folks! LOL!

Roger, no, I was not refering to the pin itself, but the joint as a whole. I have seen quite a few of these joints crack, ( on the shaft side), and/or loosen up. My friend had one strip out on the shaft side, and he never overtightened the cue. Perhaps the cuemaker just did a crappy job?

I'm simply not a fan of cues that thread directly into wood. :eek: I think a piloted SS is a much more stable joint. I feel the same way about the Uni-Loc. :) On radials, over time, I've seen the wood threads on the shaft wear, whereas a brass insert or implex is less likely to do so.

Sorry, I didn't mean to crap on anybody's pancakes! :D

buddha162
11-21-2006, 04:35 PM
Roger, no, I was not refering to the pin itself, but the joint as a whole. I have seen quite a few of these joints crack, ( on the shaft side), and/or loosen up.

I didn't think you were referring to the actual pin.

But I've spoken to a couple of cuemakers who refuse to use the popular undersized Radial tap on their shafts. They think that if it gets too humid, and the shaft wood swells too much, the pin forcing its way into the thread can actually damage the integrity of the shaftwood. If that is what happened to the cues you saw crack, I'm not sure if that makes a Radial pinned cue "weak," per se.

-Roger

X Breaker
11-21-2006, 06:37 PM
I will not name any cue maker here. I just want to say that I have had two problems before with Radial pins. Both of them were problems regarding the wood in the shaft splitting when I tried to tighten the cue.

I also had a few problems with Unilock when the insert was locked to the pin, and the insert came out from the shaft and then stayed locked to the joint pin.

Having said that, it may not be the problem of the joint but how it was handled, installed, and used.

I like the Layani joint because I never have had any problem with it.

14oneman
11-21-2006, 08:09 PM
I didn't think you were referring to the actual pin.

But I've spoken to a couple of cuemakers who refuse to use the popular undersized Radial tap on their shafts. They think that if it gets too humid, and the shaft wood swells too much, the pin forcing its way into the thread can actually damage the integrity of the shaftwood. If that is what happened to the cues you saw crack, I'm not sure if that makes a Radial pinned cue "weak," per se.

-Roger


Interesting point Roger. Perhaps "weak" is not the best way to describe what I mean. Maybe "vulnerable" would be a better way to put it.;)

JoeyInCali
11-21-2006, 09:02 PM
I didn't think you were referring to the actual pin.

But I've spoken to a couple of cuemakers who refuse to use the popular undersized Radial tap on their shafts. They think that if it gets too humid, and the shaft wood swells too much, the pin forcing its way into the thread can actually damage the integrity of the shaftwood. If that is what happened to the cues you saw crack, I'm not sure if that makes a Radial pinned cue "weak," per se.

-Roger
I don't know if that's valid.
The hole in that shaft is still 5/16 before tapped. The bottom of the threads are only 2 thousandths smaller than the regular one.
An undersized hole might be the culprit. Not the tap.
Dropping boiled linseed oil in that hole might be of help to seal that wood for a long time. Better that wax b/c wax doesn't seep in the wood.

SnakePool
11-21-2006, 09:56 PM
:D Joint pins are like fishing lures, they are made to lure the fisherman. :D ;)

bells
11-21-2006, 10:04 PM
I recently recieved a Mike Capone cue wich features the radial pin. I must say it is very stiff hitting cue. I absolutely love it. Even though it is a stiff hitting cue I have alot of 'feel" with the cue. I have also had cues with the 3/8-10 pin and I liked them very much as well. I will also say that I prefer flat faced joints that have the joint pin going directly into the shaft. I prefer these styles vs a brass insert into the shaft. As far as the quick release uniloc joint.......well I also feel that it compramises feel overall .

JoeyInCali
11-22-2006, 02:40 AM
That's too funny!:D Tried to rep ya for it, but it says I gotta spread the 'luv' before I can rep you again...darn it all!!:mad:
Here's my first Prada model.
~There's gotta be a better hobby than making stix~

Michael Webb
11-22-2006, 07:56 AM
I didn't think you were referring to the actual pin.

But I've spoken to a couple of cuemakers who refuse to use the popular undersized Radial tap on their shafts. They think that if it gets too humid, and the shaft wood swells too much,
-Roger

I would say they are not using some sought of sealer in the hole.

ratcues
11-22-2006, 08:39 AM
I've had many Uniloc cue come to me stuck together because the player does not maintain the insert and pin. Brass dust becomes maleable and "locks" up the joint. Its an easy fix here in the shop but I seen a lot where the player tries to take it apart and REALLY messes it up. (BTW, do not use pliers on you cue!)

Radial pins have more wood to pin contact thus giving a better transfer of energy resulting in a better "feel." It is also a bigger and heavier pin so it does make the joint stiffer. Some people like it, some don't.

Having said (typed) all of that, I still prefer the 5/16-14 piloted over all other pins. I do not like Uniloc because there are only a couple of thread to hold the cue together. I know the engineering behind it but I would not hold my lug nuts on with a couple of threads and pool is way more important than that.

BarenbruggeCues
11-22-2006, 11:42 AM
My o pin ion on the radial pin...........
The radial pin was designed for one thing .....and one thing only. To locate the shaft in the exact same position each time it is screwed on to the butt.
This was one of the problems with the 3/8-10 design. With the V style threads the shaft is trying to locate somewhere on the threads as it is being screwed together. Because of it's design, never in the same place though. Even cutting the threads in the shaft with a high speed cutter would still result in location problems for me. Every time I would tighten the shaft and butt together there would be a little offset that could be felt at the joint area.
This I believe was causing the faces of the joint to wear unevenly over a period of time and caused other problems.(crooked joint area when tightened down)
Kersenbrock and/or Franklin understood this sometime ago and along came the flat bottom thread design for poolcue use. With this style of pin you have a more defined area in the minor diameter of the pin size to locate the shaft on. If the hole in your shaft is bored or cut with a high speed cutter(not drilled, because you can not acheive an accurate hole by drilling and tapping it in wood) you can regulate the tightness (feel)that the shaft has when being tightened down.
One of the major reasons I wouldn't use a radial pin for myself is that you are confined to the use of "tap" to acheive the fit of the pin at a pre-determined hole size. Then depending on the circumstances, one may have to fiddle with the fit to either loosen or tighten it as the cue gets used and/or changes enviornment(sp).

If the cue is properly used for what it is intended to be used for and not as a weapon or a defense shield, the shafts in the BIG pin designs should out last most of us if the construction techniques are sound!

Just one more opinion in a world of many................