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angebones
11-20-2006, 10:17 PM
Hi I recently bought tips to put on my cue and I bought 14mm because I know they say to get a little bigger than the ferrule diameter My shaft is 12.75. The 14mm tip is HUGE and I put it on but how the hell do I get all that excess stuff hanging over the sides? I mean it actually looks like a mushroom :D

I tried using my ultimate tip tool with its little mushroom shaver but that takes forever (shows how big these tips are)

buddha162
11-20-2006, 11:32 PM
Hi I recently bought tips to put on my cue and I bought 14mm because I know they say to get a little bigger than the ferrule diameter My shaft is 12.75. The 14mm tip is HUGE and I put it on but how the hell do I get all that excess stuff hanging over the sides? I mean it actually looks like a mushroom :D

I tried using my ultimate tip tool with its little mushroom shaver but that takes forever (shows how big these tips are)

First of all, STOP with the ultimate tip tool, you will end up scratching your ferrule. They're good for shaping tips, but that mushroom-trimming tool is useless.

There are several ways to do this at home, but I would highly recommend you to spend 10 bucks and go to a local repairman or cuemaker. You'll build a relationship plus get a perfect tip everytime, assuming you find a reputable professional.

-Roger

SlickRick_PCS
11-20-2006, 11:37 PM
Hi I recently bought tips to put on my cue and I bought 14mm because I know they say to get a little bigger than the ferrule diameter My shaft is 12.75. The 14mm tip is HUGE and I put it on but how the hell do I get all that excess stuff hanging over the sides? I mean it actually looks like a mushroom :D

I tried using my ultimate tip tool with its little mushroom shaver but that takes forever (shows how big these tips are)

As funny as this quote really is, I really should agree with the enlightened one, buddah, on above forum and just take it to a professional with the right tools and equiptment. The worse thing you can do is to do it by yourself and really mess up your cue. By the time you know it, those few dollars will be well spent and you will be playing as right as rain.

xidica
11-21-2006, 12:16 AM
Agreed, why would you buy a 14mm tip to put on a ferrulle that's just under 13mm (i.e. 12.75)

It would make more sense to buy a 13mm tip in that regard correct?

Furthermore, do you have a lathe? Have you ever tipped a cue?

I don't mean to bash you here but have a professional do it.

If you want to learn to tip cues(and believe me you *can* freehand tip quite decently if you practice a lot).

The best way to do this though, is to buy some cheap 15 dollar walmart stick or something you don't care about, and tip it again and again and again until you actually are "sorta ok" at doing it.

Don't waste your time and money messing up your personal everyday player.

Just my two cents as usual...

rackem
11-21-2006, 12:40 AM
Hi I recently bought tips to put on my cue and I bought 14mm because I know they say to get a little bigger than the ferrule diameter My shaft is 12.75. The 14mm tip is HUGE and I put it on but how the hell do I get all that excess stuff hanging over the sides? I mean it actually looks like a mushroom :D

I tried using my ultimate tip tool with its little mushroom shaver but that takes forever (shows how big these tips are)

You need one of these and the smarts to figure out how to use it carefully.

xidica
11-21-2006, 12:50 AM
What particular tip trimmer is that, I might be interested in snaggin one. Thanks!

rackem
11-21-2006, 01:27 AM
I don't know who makes it. I originally got one at a trade show a few years back. It says ARTEMIS on it. The one pictured I got 5 on ebay a while back. I think they came from Germany?? Its got no markings and is definately cheaper made than mine. They work good you just have to be careful to keep the shaft parallel to the blade. Otherwise you get a very pointy tip!:D :D

xidica
11-21-2006, 01:36 AM
Hmmm...I'd like something a little more...well...expensive. :eek:

I saw one that was a really nice multiple entry crazy contraption that apparently had just went into production and has a patent on it, friggin thing has like 7 different ways to trim, cut, burnish, etc et al to a tip...

I'll have to ask Scooter at Hawley's billiards what that damn thing was and who makes it. Anyone else know any good tip trimmers?

rackem
11-21-2006, 02:02 AM
Joe Porper or I guess Mueller now has the big shaver and the little saver.
My pencil:D sharpener works just fine. shoot I have a friend who is a cuemaker so I hardly need it. It is also good for touching up a mushroom.

buddha162
11-21-2006, 02:03 AM
Well, if you have to do it at home, a titanium razor blade (thanks Joey) and some coarse and fine sandpaper does a fabulous job...

But I would much, much rather have it done on a lathe by a pro.

-Roger

xidica
11-21-2006, 02:08 AM
Yeah, I'll just keep on letting Ben Tubb's do my tip and cue work. Never *ever* had a problem with him.

mr2_serious
11-21-2006, 10:40 AM
You need one of these and the smarts to figure out how to use it carefully.

looks like a pencil sharpener for those thick pencils back in elementary school :p

bigpocket
11-21-2006, 10:47 AM
If you do your own tips that cool but make sure you buy this tool here in the picture. I do a great job with this one

Handsumm
11-21-2006, 01:22 PM
Although somewhat helpful, the past posts have not given the best information on performing a retip. It isn't very helpful to reply to someone's "How do I.." post with an answer like "take it to somebody." Especially if the task is as simple as shaving off excess leather from a tip.

It IS correct to buy a larger tip to put on a smaller ferrule. What you need to do, is to buy at least 4 or 5 different grits of sand paper. Preferrably, you will want to start with a course sandpaper (60 or 80) to remove the excess leather from the tip. Fold the paper in half (doubling it over) and with your right (or dominant) hand, while holding the cue stick vertically with your other hand, press firmly against the tip and move up and down while pressing against the end of the cue. After you have taken off most, but not all, of the excess (you want to be careful not to scratch the ferrule or shaft) you'll want to go up in grit to a medium like 120 or so and finish off removing excess while making the tip flush with the ferrule. You will also clean off the ferrule and shaft in this process by going up and down much further than you did with the coarse sandpaper. You can remove small scratches and dings with this method also.

After using the medium grit sandpaper and making the tip edge flush with the ferrule, you should go up in grit successively until it is smooth as silk. Go all the way to like 800 or 1000. After all of that, you should burnish the tip with a piece of leather. I like to use Qwiz. Use a very small amount of water (or spit) and put it on the outer edge of the tip.

Some people like to use a polish or shaft cleaner and a very fine cloth or old t-shirt while rubbing vigorously to get a nice smooth glossy finish. Should be like new.

Remember while doing these last few steps to use long strokes and to slowly spin the cue stick in your hand as to not make flat edges on the cue shaft.

Hope this helps (unlike you other guys who say see a professional for this hugely daunting task of using sandpaper.)

Doing cue repair on your own is a cheap, and somewhat fun, way to make sure your cue is in perfect playing condition at all times.

CaptainHook
11-21-2006, 01:38 PM
Although somewhat helpful, the past posts have not given the best information on performing a retip. It isn't very helpful to reply to someone's "How do I.." post with an answer like "take it to somebody." Especially if the task is as simple as shaving off excess leather from a tip.

It IS correct to buy a larger tip to put on a smaller ferrule. What you need to do, is to buy at least 4 or 5 different grits of sand paper. Preferrably, you will want to start with a course sandpaper (60 or 80) to remove the excess leather from the tip. Fold the paper in half (doubling it over) and with your right (or dominant) hand, while holding the cue stick vertically with your other hand, press firmly against the tip and move up and down while pressing against the end of the cue. After you have taken off most, but not all, of the excess (you want to be careful not to scratch the ferrule or shaft) you'll want to go up in grit to a medium like 120 or so and finish off removing excess while making the tip flush with the ferrule. You will also clean off the ferrule and shaft in this process by going up and down much further than you did with the coarse sandpaper. You can remove small scratches and dings with this method also.

After using the medium grit sandpaper and making the tip edge flush with the ferrule, you should go up in grit successively until it is smooth as silk. Go all the way to like 800 or 1000. After all of that, you should burnish the tip with a piece of leather. I like to use Qwiz. Use a very small amount of water (or spit) and put it on the outer edge of the tip.

Some people like to use a polish or shaft cleaner and a very fine cloth or old t-shirt while rubbing vigorously to get a nice smooth glossy finish. Should be like new.

Remember while doing these last few steps to use long strokes and to slowly spin the cue stick in your hand as to not make flat edges on the cue shaft.

Hope this helps (unlike you other guys who say see a professional for this hugely daunting task of using sandpaper.)

Doing cue repair on your own is a cheap, and somewhat fun, way to make sure your cue is in perfect playing condition at all times.

I have been in several Cue Makers shops over the years, and they always used a larger Tip. I watched as they put the shaft in the lathe and shaped and burnished the sides of the tip while the shaft was spinning.
That just always amazed me.:)

Sprite
11-21-2006, 01:58 PM
Hi I recently bought tips to put on my cue and I bought 14mm because I know they say to get a little bigger than the ferrule diameter My shaft is 12.75. The 14mm tip is HUGE and I put it on but how the hell do I get all that excess stuff hanging over the sides? I mean it actually looks like a mushroom :D

I tried using my ultimate tip tool with its little mushroom shaver but that takes forever (shows how big these tips are)

You don't need any tip trimmer at all.

Buy a 14mm(diameter) shaft and fit your 14mm tip on it. That should clear all doubts.;)

angebones
11-21-2006, 03:04 PM
Although somewhat helpful, the past posts have not given the best information on performing a retip. It isn't very helpful to reply to someone's "How do I.." post with an answer like "take it to somebody." Especially if the task is as simple as shaving off excess leather from a tip.

It IS correct to buy a larger tip to put on a smaller ferrule. What you need to do, is to buy at least 4 or 5 different grits of sand paper. Preferrably, you will want to start with a course sandpaper (60 or 80) to remove the excess leather from the tip. Fold the paper in half (doubling it over) and with your right (or dominant) hand, while holding the cue stick vertically with your other hand, press firmly against the tip and move up and down while pressing against the end of the cue. After you have taken off most, but not all, of the excess (you want to be careful not to scratch the ferrule or shaft) you'll want to go up in grit to a medium like 120 or so and finish off removing excess while making the tip flush with the ferrule. You will also clean off the ferrule and shaft in this process by going up and down much further than you did with the coarse sandpaper. You can remove small scratches and dings with this method also.

After using the medium grit sandpaper and making the tip edge flush with the ferrule, you should go up in grit successively until it is smooth as silk. Go all the way to like 800 or 1000. After all of that, you should burnish the tip with a piece of leather. I like to use Qwiz. Use a very small amount of water (or spit) and put it on the outer edge of the tip.

Some people like to use a polish or shaft cleaner and a very fine cloth or old t-shirt while rubbing vigorously to get a nice smooth glossy finish. Should be like new.

Remember while doing these last few steps to use long strokes and to slowly spin the cue stick in your hand as to not make flat edges on the cue shaft.

Hope this helps (unlike you other guys who say see a professional for this hugely daunting task of using sandpaper.)

Doing cue repair on your own is a cheap, and somewhat fun, way to make sure your cue is in perfect playing condition at all times.

Thank you very much i started off with sandpaper but it just was going too slow, I actually made some progress with a nail file, but I had to leave. I will try the different grit papers

buddha162
11-21-2006, 03:57 PM
Thank you very much i started off with sandpaper but it just was going too slow, I actually made some progress with a nail file, but I had to leave. I will try the different grit papers

Okay. To start the process, get yourself a razor blade, preferably a titanium one. If using a regular blade, press the tip into a cutting surface, so the shaft is standing upright, vertically. With great care, cut the overhang from the tip, all the way around. Pay attention to not angle the blade, but concentrate on cutting straight down.

If using a titanium blade, you can do the same thing or, if you have steady hands, simply lay the blade flat against the ferrule (you should be sitting down, holding the shaft horizontally) and swipe the blade away from the shaft to cut away the excess leather. Get a good feel to how much pressure is needed to cut through your particular tip.

Now that you've trimmed away most of the excess leather, it's time to make it perfect. The goal here is to remove leather ONLY, and not nick, scratch, or f-up in any way that pristine white ferrule.

You will need a range of sandpaper, from 300-800, a magazine, scotch tape, and some sort of stopper for the tip.

On a flat surface, lay your shaft down with the joint end supported by a magazine. Tape up your ferrule with a piece of scotch tape, right to the edge of the tip. This is added insurance. Draw a dot on the tape; this will guide you around the sanding process.

Place your tip on the piece of rough sandpaper, with only the tip resting on the edge of the sandpaper. Move the stopper (I use a cd case) until it is pressed against the top of the tip. At this point you can either carefully turn the sandpaper/stopper unit over and tape it, or just press down firmly on the stopper.

There should only be a strip of sanding surface exposed, the width of your tip height.

Now, with the dot you drew on the tape facing upwards, slowly grind the tip back and forth on the sandpaper, with gentle pressure towards the stopper. Start with 2-3 passes, then rotate the tip a fraction of an inch, and keep sanding thusly until you see the dot pointing upwards again.

**make sure the stopper has not moved, you don't want to scratch the ferrule!**

Inspect the tip, and see how much more you have to sand. Also, look for raised bumps in the sidewall and take care of those first. If the first pass took off a lot of leather, move onto the finer grade sandpaper. If not, repeat with coarser paper.

When the tip is trimmed to your satisfaction, burnish the sidewall. I use a rough piece of leather and spit. Shape the tip to the desired radius, and you should be good to go.

Here's a pic of the sandpaper trimming gadget that I just snapped off now. All of this I gleaned from this very site, I forgot who described the sandpaper jig but the titanium blade was suggested by JoeyinCali, and that was a great help.

Good luck,
Roger

*That, btw, is the new T O O L album...the greatest band in the universe!*

Handsumm
11-21-2006, 04:05 PM
That method is interesting, albeit somewhat intricate and detailed. My suggested method however will ensure that the tip and ferrule are exactly flush, and that the entire shaft is cleaned, smooth, and without knicks, scratches, or dings. Yours only addresses the tip sidewall. While some like to stay away from touching the shaft (for fear of losing width or something stupid like that) I advise doing this every 40 or 50 hours at the table.

This is why my shaft is always like new, without dings, and plays like the day I bought it.

xianmacx
11-21-2006, 04:14 PM
except its now 9mm instead of 13.


That method is interesting, albeit somewhat intricate and detailed. My suggested method however will ensure that the tip and ferrule are exactly flush, and that the entire shaft is cleaned, smooth, and without knicks, scratches, or dings. Yours only addresses the tip sidewall. While some like to stay away from touching the shaft (for fear of losing width or something stupid like that) I advise doing this every 40 or 50 hours at the table.

This is why my shaft is always like new, without dings, and plays like the day I bought it.

buddha162
11-21-2006, 04:45 PM
Yours only addresses the tip sidewall. While some like to stay away from touching the shaft (for fear of losing width or something stupid like that) I advise doing this every 40 or 50 hours at the table.

This is why my shaft is always like new, without dings, and plays like the day I bought it.

Whatever floats your boat buddy. Some people view shafts as a replaceable, disposable part of their equipment, like tips; sand them down to "clean," after a couple of years replace.

I play with a 12.75 mm shaft. I can tell the difference between 12.75 and 12.65. I want my shafts to remain at 12.75. If you don't notice any difference, good for you. I won't call you stupid for believing that though.

-Roger

buddha162
11-21-2006, 04:51 PM
My suggested method however will ensure that the tip and ferrule are exactly flush, and that the entire shaft is cleaned, smooth, and without knicks, scratches, or dings.

Well reading this it seems to me that you're just a bit lazy.

The method I described (which is not MY method, btw) can and will get the tip perfectly flush with the ferrule, w/o actually removing any ferrule material. That is important to many, many people, but apparently not to you.

And if I want to clean my shaft, I clean my shaft. Sanding is not cleaning.

-Roger

X Breaker
11-21-2006, 05:00 PM
I do not think using very rough sand paper to sand up and down along the tip would produce a tip with good playability. I do not like to sand the tip upward.

You can buy a tool made by Williard and it is only like $400. It is not a lathe but it is good enough with some practise.

If you want to do a very nice job in a shorter period of time without worrying about cutting your ferrule and so on, you can buy a cheap lathe for like $800 and do your own tip, ferrule, shaft cleaning...

Or you can pay your local guy $10 to $20.

Some players prefer to have their tips done by a certain cue repair person, most of it is because of the glue that person uses, in my opinion.

Richard

3kushn
11-21-2006, 07:49 PM
Okay. To start the process, get yourself a razor blade, preferably a titanium one. If using a regular blade, press the tip into a cutting surface, so the shaft is standing upright, vertically. With great care, cut the overhang from the tip, all the way around. Pay attention to not angle the blade, but concentrate on cutting straight down.

If using a titanium blade, you can do the same thing or, if you have steady hands, simply lay the blade flat against the ferrule (you should be sitting down, holding the shaft horizontally) and swipe the blade away from the shaft to cut away the excess leather. Get a good feel to how much pressure is needed to cut through your particular tip.

Now that you've trimmed away most of the excess leather, it's time to make it perfect. The goal here is to remove leather ONLY, and not nick, scratch, or f-up in any way that pristine white ferrule.

You will need a range of sandpaper, from 300-800, a magazine, scotch tape, and some sort of stopper for the tip.

On a flat surface, lay your shaft down with the joint end supported by a magazine. Tape up your ferrule with a piece of scotch tape, right to the edge of the tip. This is added insurance. Draw a dot on the tape; this will guide you around the sanding process.

Place your tip on the piece of rough sandpaper, with only the tip resting on the edge of the sandpaper. Move the stopper (I use a cd case) until it is pressed against the top of the tip. At this point you can either carefully turn the sandpaper/stopper unit over and tape it, or just press down firmly on the stopper.

There should only be a strip of sanding surface exposed, the width of your tip height.

Now, with the dot you drew on the tape facing upwards, slowly grind the tip back and forth on the sandpaper, with gentle pressure towards the stopper. Start with 2-3 passes, then rotate the tip a fraction of an inch, and keep sanding thusly until you see the dot pointing upwards again.

**make sure the stopper has not moved, you don't want to scratch the ferrule!**

Inspect the tip, and see how much more you have to sand. Also, look for raised bumps in the sidewall and take care of those first. If the first pass took off a lot of leather, move onto the finer grade sandpaper. If not, repeat with coarser paper.

When the tip is trimmed to your satisfaction, burnish the sidewall. I use a rough piece of leather and spit. Shape the tip to the desired radius, and you should be good to go.

Here's a pic of the sandpaper trimming gadget that I just snapped off now. All of this I gleaned from this very site, I forgot who described the sandpaper jig but the titanium blade was suggested by JoeyinCali, and that was a great help.

Good luck,
Roger

*That, btw, is the new T O O L album...the greatest band in the universe!*
There's a similar process by Bob Jewett. He'll probably chime in shortly.

rackem
11-21-2006, 11:06 PM
Once again, if you wish to replace your own tips, at least invest in some sort of hand trimming device to do it safely and properly. Razor blades and sandpaper is both dangerous and haphazard. :( I would not recommend a novice trying that. My pencil sharpener looking devise works just great.

Handsumm
11-22-2006, 11:01 AM
Not that it means too much, but I used to retip about 100 cues a day. The method I described worked great, but not as good as it would be on a lathe of course.

I also like my shafts to be thinner than most people, but I will probably only lose 1/4 mm this year. Not noticeable.

I have a hard time believing anyone can tell the difference between 12.75 and 12.65mm. But, most everyone WILL notice a ding or scratch that is similar depth.

Aaron_S
11-22-2006, 01:06 PM
I started putting my own tips on when a local cue repair person screwed up a Schon shaft for me. When I got my cue back I thought I could feel a very slight reduction in the size of the shaft within a half-inch or so of the ferrule. I put a micrometer on it and found that the ferrule and a small portion of the shaft had been reduced by about .010". Needless to say, I was very unhappy about this, and, although I didn't know anything about putting tips on at the time, I was fairly certain that I wasn't going to f*ck up the entire shaft like this "professional" did. Just make sure you use a reputable repair person if you choose to go that route.

As far as the size of the tip goes, there have been times when I intentionally bought 14mm tips because I was using Super Glue Gel, and it can be hard to center a 13mm LePro on a 13mm shaft without gluing your fingers to everything in the process. Honestly, I don't know how many times I've had to sand my own skin off of my ferrule because I wasn't quick enough getting the tip centered :eek: When I shape tips, I first cut off the excess with a razor blade (with the shaft upside down), and then I use one of those pencil sharpener thingys to make the sides nice and smooth. I've always tried to avoid using sandpaper on the sides of the tip, and will only occassionally use very fine sp (like 1000-1200 grit) to clean the ferrule. Also, if I do sand anything, I always hit it with the burnisher afterward. It even seems to make the ferrule look smooth and shiny again.

buddha162
11-22-2006, 03:40 PM
Not that it means too much, but I used to retip about 100 cues a day. The method I described worked great, but not as good as it would be on a lathe of course.

Well, it just means that you used to butcher-up 100 cues a day. I hope those were house cues, and not someone's baby.

You could, and many do, perform a similar hack job with a lathe. It's all about doing things the right way, w/o taking shortcuts.

Dents should be steamed out, then *carefully* sanded smooth with high grade paper; NOT fixed by reducing the overall diameter of the shaft. Tips can and should be trimmed *perfectly* flush with the ferrule, without touching anything else.

-Roger (sorry for being so harsh, but shaft-butchery is a pet peeve of mine...)

Handsumm
11-22-2006, 03:56 PM
Well, it just means that you used to butcher-up 100 cues a day. I hope those were house cues, and not someone's baby.

You could, and many do, perform a similar hack job with a lathe. It's all about doing things the right way, w/o taking shortcuts.

Dents should be steamed out, then *carefully* sanded smooth with high grade paper; NOT fixed by reducing the overall diameter of the shaft. Tips can and should be trimmed *perfectly* flush with the ferrule, without touching anything else.

-Roger (sorry for being so harsh, but shaft-butchery is a pet peeve of mine...)

I would like to compare the condition of my "butchered" shaft with the shaft from your "baby." Anyways, did you mention anything about burnishing your tip? Also, isn't it a little bit hard to sand something that is <1cm by using a "cd case stopper" or whatever. How do you clean your ferrule? How do you smooth out your shaft?

To answer your question, yes they were house cues, and no I wouldn't use that method for "somebody's baby." I would rather use a lathe.

I never had an unhappy customer, and I would laugh if somebody got out the Vernier Calipers on me and complained about 0.010 mm.

To me, there is nothing wrong with losing a little weight.

You were right about steam though. I have also heard the ghetto way of spit and a cigarette:D

1pRoscoe
11-22-2006, 04:10 PM
l would laugh if somebody got out the Vernier Calipers on me and complained about 0.010 mm.

I would too, however I believe that the measurement in question is 0.1, which is noticeable to people who are particular about their shafts...

Doh! Forget I said that, as I just read the post you were referring to.... I'm retarded.

Handsumm
11-22-2006, 04:25 PM
I would too, however I believe that the measurement in question is 0.1, which is noticeable to people who are particular about their shafts...

Doh! Forget I said that, as I just read the post you were referring to.... I'm retarded.

You are actually right, when I reread the guys post, he said 12.75 to 12.65, which I WOULD be worried about. But my shaft is sanded smoothly 5 or 6 times a year and I have probably lost about that width.

tint_master
02-22-2007, 03:05 AM
If you do your own tips that cool but make sure you buy this tool here in the picture. I do a great job with this one
I have one of these "Porper Big Shavers" that i have only used a few times that I'd like to sell. Let me know if anyone is interested,.... make an offer!! Link below for product pic and info

http://www.poolndarts.com/index.cfm?CFID=1886679&CFTOKEN=3734acb87e6c5156-F9F40DB7-D61C-4F06-B1FC20036122DAA2&Fuseaction=Catalog.Product&productID=5895

Rod
02-22-2007, 08:52 AM
I don't use any of the methods described in this thread. Many years ago though I tried some things close to some mentioned. When your new to this and don't have a specific procedure you can expect to make a mistake. Those mistakes can be costly as in loosing shaft/ferrule diameter. Even new repair guys are prone to making mistakes. That was noted earlier when someone lost .010 (of an inch) I've had similar happen to me so they lost my business.

Some may think loosing .010 (of an inch) is not a big deal. If you loose that much every year, in 4 years your 13mm shaft is now 12mm. No big deal right, yea right. If you have to buy an expensive shaft/s you'll think twice before using sand paper on them. Sand paper and shafts should be about 10 miles apart, give or take a mile. LOL I sure some (think) their not reducing shaft size but a check with dial indicators will easily tell a different story. Like some I can feel small differences in shaft diameters.

The shafts (4) on my main playing cue started life at (2)@13mm and (2)@13.25mm. That was about 15 years ago. They are a little smaller now, but less than 1/4 of a mm. It has to be a crime if you loose even a .001 (of an inch) which would include polishing a ferrule. Need I mention the small tip and fat shaft syndrome?

This is a pet peeve of mine so I had to reply to this old post. For those that respect your equipment, good for you. For those that think its not a big deal, you just keep on thinking that. Do others a favor though keep it to yourself and don't go into the repair business.:D

Rod