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Eydie Romano
11-21-2006, 05:19 PM
IPT advertising now pulled from Billiards Digest Web Site...

Well, it looks like BD has elected NOT to associate themselves with the IPT anymore. This speaks volumes people, when BD pulls ad's, it's a done deal..

Timberly
11-21-2006, 05:40 PM
The media, esp magazines geared towards a certain thing such as pool or fashion or whatnot can usually find themselves in a tough spot with these situations. People expect them to act more like a newspaper and report news... I can appreciate people wanting that but you have to realize the position the magazines are in.

We all know there's not a lot of money in pool and that goes for the magazines too.... there's only so many companies in the pool world that can and/or do buy advertising which is what helps keep the magazine afloat.

Enter the IPT... Arguably the biggest buzz to ever hit pool. Of course the pool media wanted in on it however they could. When the IPT self destructed, the media were put in a tough spot.

Sadly, the IPT has been as bad to the media as they have the players. Some have not been paid, others have not been paid in full, and to top it off, I just learned that they were asking/demanding discounts on their advertisements. Gotta love it... they get a discount (from some) and they still jipped 'em out of what they owed them. :rolleyes:

I think BD gave them more than enough time to come clean and be honest about things and since they haven't... good for BD for saying "no".

jimmy-leggs
11-21-2006, 06:16 PM
im glad billiards digest did this,kinda like im glad o.j. got punted as well.

Timberly
11-21-2006, 06:21 PM
im glad o.j. got punted as well.
That was a bright spot in the news during my morning commute to work. I'm guessing whoever approved the idea was demoted or fired. What an asinine thing to think of doing!

AuntyDan
11-21-2006, 06:50 PM
IPT advertising now pulled from Billiards Digest Web Site...

Well, it looks like BD has elected NOT to associate themselves with the IPT anymore. This speaks volumes people, when BD pulls ad's, it's a done deal..

Are you sure they have been "pulled", meaning that BD management made a conscious decision to not take their advertising even though the IPT still wanted to place them and were paying for them. If so I would applaud them for this, especially if they publicly acknowledge this in the magazine itself.

However it might be that the IPT just stopped paying for the advertising. This could be due to budget constraints, or perhaps they didn't like the negative interview with KT that BD published. Or even just maybe because both the CCB* and our dear own AZB (Owned by BD of course) has been full of all us NS** SCF's*** critiquing all their wonderful announcements.

*CCB - Cue Chalk Board (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard)
**NS - Naysaying
***SCF - So Called Fans

ScottW
11-21-2006, 07:01 PM
I had the same thought...

Timberly
11-21-2006, 07:10 PM
Eydie and I have not discussed this so I don't know any of the details on this deal with BD or even if she does (not that she would tell me if she did. She doesn't always divulge to me). I do know that there are some media outlets out there that have not been paid.... and this started BEFORE Reno.... maybe BD was one of those not getting paid and said screw it... maybe they were getting paid but said screw it anyway... Unless Eydie or someone else knows, I guess we'll just have to wonder.... It would be nice if BD would post a release chronicling their reason(s).

cueball1950
11-21-2006, 07:53 PM
Are you sure they have been "pulled", meaning that BD management made a conscious decision to not take their advertising even though the IPT still wanted to place them and were paying for them. If so I would applaud them for this, especially if they publicly acknowledge this in the magazine itself.

However it might be that the IPT just stopped paying for the advertising. This could be due to budget constraints, or perhaps they didn't like the negative interview with KT that BD published. Or even just maybe because both the CCB* and our dear own AZB (Owned by BD of course) has been full of all us NS** SCF's*** critiquing all their wonderful announcements.

*CCB - Cue Chalk Board (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard)
**NS - Naysaying
***SCF - So Called Fans


Aunty Dan:
I am confused. Did i miss something?....since when is azb owned by billiards digest. When did they buy it? I know that Mike Howerton from az is moderator over there. but i thought Mike Howerton owned az? So someone please let me know..............................mike

macguy
11-21-2006, 07:54 PM
IPT advertising now pulled from Billiards Digest Web Site...

Well, it looks like BD has elected NOT to associate themselves with the IPT anymore. This speaks volumes people, when BD pulls ad's, it's a done deal..

Has BD announced they will no longer accept advertising from the IPT or have they just stopped advertising? There is a big difference.

AzHousePro
11-21-2006, 09:06 PM
Once again, a case of someone hearing something and assuming that it is true without thinking for the briefest moment about what they are typing.

I maintain the websites for Luby Publishing. Luby owns a number of billiards and bowling magazines including Billiards Digest. I am paid by them to maintain their sites. I do not have any editorial control and only post on their sites what I am told to post.

I personally own AzBilliards. So since Luby pays me to do work for them and I own AzBilliards, then I guess that must mean that Luby owns AzBilliards. With that logic, the non billiards sites that I maintain for a living must also own AzBilliards.

Come to think of it, I maintain Jeanette's website. So she owns AzBilliards too. And my partner in the website maintains sites for Johnny, Kim Shaw and Tiffany Nelson. So they all own AzBilliards too.

It just kills me when someone assumes something is fact without ever spending any time checking on what they are talking about.

Mike

Or even just maybe because both the CCB* and our dear own AZB (Owned by BD of course) has been full of all us NS** SCF's*** critiquing all their wonderful announcements.

rackemfr9ball
11-21-2006, 09:31 PM
Chuckled when I read the original post, and was wondering how long it would take for this reply. lol A shame that you have to spell it all out tho- :rolleyes:

cueball1950
11-21-2006, 10:26 PM
Once again, a case of someone hearing something and assuming that it is true without thinking for the briefest moment about what they are typing.

I maintain the websites for Luby Publishing. Luby owns a number of billiards and bowling magazines including Billiards Digest. I am paid by them to maintain their sites. I do not have any editorial control and only post on their sites what I am told to post.

I personally own AzBilliards. So since Luby pays me to do work for them and I own AzBilliards, then I guess that must mean that Luby owns AzBilliards. With that logic, the non billiards sites that I maintain for a living must also own AzBilliards.

Come to think of it, I maintain Jeanette's website. So she owns AzBilliards too. And my partner in the website maintains sites for Johnny, Kim Shaw and Tiffany Nelson. So they all own AzBilliards too.

It just kills me when someone assumes something is fact without ever spending any time checking on what they are talking about.

Mike


Mike....Thanks big guy for setting the story straight. I thought i had it straight. Thought i might have missed something..... tell the girlfriend i said hi and have a good turkey day........................mike

!Smorgass Bored
11-21-2006, 10:36 PM
..... tell the girlfriend I said hi and have a good turkey day........................mike


This leaves the door open for a host of leg, thigh and breast jokes, not to mention 'white meat'.... I might even use the 'N' word. Yes, I think I will use it.... NECK, there I said it and I'm not sorry. Turkey Necks and gravy, I love 'em.
Doug
( now, where's my punkin pie )

Holly
11-21-2006, 11:03 PM
Hey big guy how are you doing? Send me a PM...and if we don't have a chance to talk in the next couple days, Happy Thanksgiving :)
Holly

AuntyDan
11-22-2006, 12:49 AM
Once again, a case of someone hearing something and assuming that it is true without thinking for the briefest moment about what they are typing.

My sincere apologies both to Mike and any one else I may have confused. After searching back to when I had first seen this discussed over a year ago I now understand my mistake.

It was not a case of me hearing anything second hand or typing without thinking, which I am rarely wont to do. I had simple mis-intepreted some information from this old thread (http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=15483&page=3&highlight=Billiards+Digest) in which you'd personally discussed your role on both BD and here. I guess looking back at this I never quite got the concept that AZB is your personally owned site.

Thank you for all your hard work here Mike. (I'm sure you don't get to hear this nearly often enough.)

corvette1340
11-22-2006, 07:44 AM
Once again, a case of someone hearing something and assuming that it is true without thinking for the briefest moment about what they are typing.

I maintain the websites for Luby Publishing. Luby owns a number of billiards and bowling magazines including Billiards Digest. I am paid by them to maintain their sites. I do not have any editorial control and only post on their sites what I am told to post.

I personally own AzBilliards. So since Luby pays me to do work for them and I own AzBilliards, then I guess that must mean that Luby owns AzBilliards. With that logic, the non billiards sites that I maintain for a living must also own AzBilliards.

Come to think of it, I maintain Jeanette's website. So she owns AzBilliards too. And my partner in the website maintains sites for Johnny, Kim Shaw and Tiffany Nelson. So they all own AzBilliards too.

It just kills me when someone assumes something is fact without ever spending any time checking on what they are talking about.

Mike


Are you interested in selling AZ?

NYC cue dude
11-22-2006, 08:20 AM
Are you interested in selling AZ?

And you ask that on a public message board? Not in a pm?

Anyway Mike, thanks for all you do here, great site, people, and information.

I have come to find recently how difficult your job here is, but you've made your own bed........:p Happy holiday's to all!!!!

rg

Eydie Romano
11-22-2006, 08:31 AM
Are you sure they have been "pulled", meaning that BD management made a conscious decision to not take their advertising even though the IPT still wanted to place them and were paying for them. If so I would applaud them for this, especially if they publicly acknowledge this in the magazine itself.


To answer your question:

YES, I am sure that they pulled the ad's on their own accord. Not due to lack of payment. Now all we have to do is get AZB to follow in their footsteps by pulling the ad's here as well.

The IPT has been good at payments to the media, especially to ones that brown nose them, and because they understand that is how they (the IPT) can survive.

Yes Timberly, you are correct with your info I can verify that they have stiffed some little publications. They have discounted their already low discounted rates, and giving themselves additional savings by writing "discounted" in the memo section of the check they submitted to the publication.

Shame on you IPT, that stinks! Just stiff the little guy!

Leave all the ad's to Inside Pool, their magazine has been dead for years now, since they stiffed their readers on subscriptions and advertisers on vital ad space that needed to be out in a timely fashion and wasn't. Besides, no one reads their forums anyway's..:rolleyes: I hear that they are giving away a dart along with the magazine, for use to throw at that edition which featured Deno's mug on it.

corvette1340
11-22-2006, 08:36 AM
And you ask that on a public message board? Not in a pm?

Anyway Mike, thanks for all you do here, great site, people, and information.

I have come to find recently how difficult your job here is, but you've made your own bed........:p Happy holiday's to all!!!!

rg

Why does it matter if I send him a PM or not? I simply hit the reply button. Why are you even concerned?

rackemfr9ball
11-22-2006, 08:50 AM
I hear that they are giving away a dart along with the magazine, for use to throw at that edition which featured Deno's mug on it.


You mean to tell me they jipped me of my Dart?!?! :mad:
My cue was suffice, bent the pin though.

Eydie Romano
11-22-2006, 08:57 AM
Now that's funny stuff!!

NYC cue dude
11-22-2006, 08:58 AM
Why does it matter if I send him a PM or not? I simply hit the reply button. Why are you even concerned?

I am concerned because i had to read it.

Why does it matter, you will see by his reply. He either won't, or it will probably be answered without sincerity because of the way it was asked.

We'll see.

rg

mrpool06
11-22-2006, 10:59 AM
Isn't this the same magazine that called KT "Man of the Year", & had him on their cover once or twice? ;)

sniper
11-22-2006, 12:45 PM
IPT advertising now pulled from Billiards Digest Web Site...




I wonder what took them so long?

cueball1950
11-22-2006, 01:02 PM
Isn't this the same magazine that called KT "Man of the Year", & had him on their cover once or twice? ;)


Well, everybody makes mistakes at least once or twice in their lifetime....mike

AzHousePro
11-22-2006, 02:44 PM
No, not really.

Mike

Are you interested in selling AZ?

juegabillar
11-22-2006, 03:27 PM
Leave all the ad's to Inside Pool, their magazine has been dead for years now, since they stiffed their readers on subscriptions and advertisers on vital ad space that needed to be out in a timely fashion and wasn't. Besides, no one reads their forums anyway's..:rolleyes: I hear that they are giving away a dart along with the magazine, for use to throw at that edition which featured Deno's mug on it.

I live overseas and have been receiving my subscription since 2004 when I subscribed at the US Open. I like their magazine over the other 2 (Pool and Billiards, Billiards Digest).

Does any of the other magazines put out the info on a timely fashion? No, I don't think so.

About their forum. There were 2 forums already established (BD and this one) so it is possible the same people didn't want to be rolling all over the internet to participate on the same subjects. In addition, many billiards sites have forums (not as successful as this one) and you're not attacking them. So what's your beef with Inside Pool?

The "dart" thing with the magazine, was a joke JR pull-off at the U.S. Open when he had a zillion copies of the Deno Andrews Interview. I guess he was right on the target with the commentary.

Your comments are uncalled for. Inside Pool gets my vote. There, I feel better now.

juegabillar
11-22-2006, 03:30 PM
Are you interested in selling AZ?

I bid 150 million dollars.....:D

juegabillar
11-22-2006, 03:32 PM
No, not really.

Mike

So is it open to bids? ;)

Eydie Romano
11-22-2006, 04:52 PM
I live overseas and have been receiving my subscription since 2004 when I subscribed at the US Open. I like their magazine over the other 2 (Pool and Billiards, Billiards Digest).

Does any of the other magazines put out the info on a timely fashion? No, I don't think so.

About their forum. There were 2 forums already established (BD and this one) so it is possible the same people didn't want to be rolling all over the internet to participate on the same subjects. In addition, many billiards sites have forums (not as successful as this one) and you're not attacking them. So what's your beef with Inside Pool?

The "dart" thing with the magazine, was a joke JR pull-off at the U.S. Open when he had a zillion copies of the Deno Andrews Interview. I guess he was right on the target with the commentary.

Your comments are uncalled for. Inside Pool gets my vote. There, I feel better now.

Actually I would love to answer your question on what the beef is, but that is for another thread at another time.

Regarding being put out in a timely fashion, BD is always there and always has been. IP can't say that, sorry just the truth as it is.

Until then, and to keep on the subject here, I will PM you all the info you need to understand "The Beef" or the truth as it happens to be!

sjm
11-22-2006, 08:51 PM
There is some symbolic significance here. As the strongest pillar of the billards press, the actions of Billiards Digest must be taken seriously.

Severing ties with the IPT can only be construed as evidencing that Billiards Digest no longer views the IPT a s a legitimate business concern in our sport.

Is Billiards Digest, metaphorically speaking, the coroner pronouncing the IPT dead? At very least, one must concede that this interpretation would not be unreasonable.

We shall see.

ironman
11-23-2006, 06:14 AM
There is some symbolic significance here. As the strongest pillar of the billards press, the actions of Billiards Digest must be taken seriously.

Severing ties with the IPT can only be construed as evidencing that Billiards Digest no longer views the IPT a s a legitimate business concern in our sport.

Is Billiards Digest, metaphorically speaking, the coroner pronouncing the IPT dead? At very least, one must concede that this interpretation would not be unreasonable.

We shall see.

I feel it to be a very reasonable interpretation. BD is probably one of the many victims here who also jumped through Hoops for the IPT. At some point they would be forced to cut their losses go on about business. BD probably could have said much more, but I doubt they want to resort to those tactics.

IMO, the one who could really speak loudly and put things in a REAL perspective is Diamond Products. If the IPT were to announce a schedule {which I doubt ever happens} would Diamond still want to be a part of it.

George Fels
11-24-2006, 03:46 PM
I don't have a definitive answer for you on this, and can't get one till Monday, but I can tell you that we'd be far more likely to pull his ad for non-payment than to make any kind of "statement". Personally, I think what KT is doing is monstrous, but he does seem to have a decent working relationship with our publisher including his latest Q & A. The "dis-association" you speak of is not our way of doing business, certainly not without all the facts - and nobody but KT seems to have the facts. (I have heard that he owes another publication six months' worth of payments, but I didn't post to stoke the rumor mill even further.) George Fels

NYC cue dude
11-24-2006, 03:57 PM
welcome to the board George.

Things have changed since we last spoke on the phone a few weeks ago. It went very quickly from BD being on the fence, to a major industry catalyst in calling out the ipt.

I think perhaps my conversation with Mike hit a nerve.

Be well my friend,
Randy Goldwater

RED LITE
11-25-2006, 12:33 AM
George F -

As you have watched the board for at least three weeks, probably longer, you know that we are part dumb, part smart, part poet, part interloper, and part rude. But to a man (and woman), all here are interested in pool and the IPT problem.

Thanks for the post! And the info. :)

RL

Eydie Romano
11-25-2006, 06:14 PM
I don't have a definitive answer for you on this, and can't get one till Monday, but I can tell you that we'd be far more likely to pull his ad for non-payment than to make any kind of "statement". Personally, I think what KT is doing is monstrous, but he does seem to have a decent working relationship with our publisher including his latest Q & A. The "dis-association" you speak of is not our way of doing business, certainly not without all the facts - and nobody but KT seems to have the facts. (I have heard that he owes another publication six months' worth of payments, but I didn't post to stoke the rumor mill even further.) George Fels


Welcome George!

Glad to see you here, and hope you will continue to share your thoughts!

Just for the record, the info I got in this thread was directly from a BD employee..

The IPT has kept their payments late but made them to most publications. There have been a few smaller publications that have just now gotten paid, with deductions done by the IPT. This was disgraceful on their part to make a check out to a publication, and then in the memo section say "Discounted".

Eydie

George Fels
12-10-2006, 08:58 AM
Welcome George!

Glad to see you here, and hope you will continue to share your thoughts!

Just for the record, the info I got in this thread was directly from a BD employee..

The IPT has kept their payments late but made them to most publications. There have been a few smaller publications that have just now gotten paid, with deductions done by the IPT. This was disgraceful on their part to make a check out to a publication, and then in the memo section say "Discounted".

Eydie

Whomever you spoke to at the Digest, Eydie, the decision to pull the IPT ad would have come from management. And when I asked management why the ad was pulled, I was told it was for non-payment, as I expected.

Good luck with your Windy City Open. Best regards, GF

Timberly
12-10-2006, 09:18 AM
I asked management why the ad was pulled, I was told it was for non-payment, as I expected.
Definitely not a surprise but still a shame.

Between not paying the players, not paying the media, charging people $2000 for qualifiers, and getting people to sign up for the website, they've managed to screw everyone in the billiard community. Players, vendors, media, and the fans.

Since MS wanted all the praise for bringing KT into the pool world, shouldn't he also take some flak for it too? Thanks Mike, you did the whole pool world a huge favor. :rolleyes: It doesn't matter how well you dress something up or how much money you put in it's pocket, some people simply can't better themselves as a human. MS & KT deserve each other.

macguy
12-10-2006, 09:51 AM
Definitely not a surprise but still a shame.

Between not paying the players, not paying the media, charging people $2000 for qualifiers, and getting people to sign up for the website, they've managed to screw everyone in the billiard community. Players, vendors, media, and the fans.

Since MS wanted all the praise for bringing KT into the pool world, shouldn't he also take some flak for it too? Thanks Mike, you did the whole pool world a huge favor. :rolleyes: It doesn't matter how well you dress something up or how much money you put in it's pocket, some people simply can't better themselves as a human. MS & KT deserve each other.

In a small defense of Mike Sigel, I doubt he ever thought there was a chance players would not get paid. I am sure he, like everyone else with a brain in their heads, thought the tour had zilch chance of succeeding but would just fold, not stiff everyone. KT said in the beginning, if it all went bad then they would just lose money and it would have been a party for a while.

Even I believed that, he has a history of pissing away money irrationally so why not. He is an egotistical idiot who found a bunch of poor down-and-outs in the form of the pool players, who he could easily impress and get to worship him. Something he obviously loved and they didn't let him down, you read a lot of it here. I was very surprised though when he didn't pay.

ironman
12-10-2006, 10:20 AM
Definitely not a surprise but still a shame.

Between not paying the players, not paying the media, charging people $2000 for qualifiers, and getting people to sign up for the website, they've managed to screw everyone in the billiard community. Players, vendors, media, and the fans.

Since MS wanted all the praise for bringing KT into the pool world, shouldn't he also take some flak for it too? Thanks Mike, you did the whole pool world a huge favor. :rolleyes: It doesn't matter how well you dress something up or how much money you put in it's pocket, some people simply can't better themselves as a human. MS & KT deserve each other.

It really is a shame as many were hurt and in many different ways. They still hurt.
As Timberly suggests, there is a long trail of victims and it will take a while for all this to go away. Some players have not resurfaced yet and some have no intentions.
It seems that MS would have come forward in some way or another in support of the players. He did endorse the whole IPT and KT and was basicly given a free pass to reap the REAL money. Then again, what could he say that would ease any of the pain? His credibility with the pool world was bought and sold.
It is my hope that anyone from outside the pool world offering wealth and fame will be placed under a microscope next time. In light of what has happened, and if they are legitimate, they will expect it and be anxious to prove their legitimacy.
It seems ironic to me though that for months, most, were begging MS to shut up and now he can't be found. Finally at a loss for words.

jimmyg
12-10-2006, 10:29 AM
In a small defense of Mike Sigel, I doubt he ever thought there was a chance players would not get paid. I am sure he, like everyone else with a brain in their heads, thought the tour had zilch chance of succeeding but would just fold, not stiff everyone. KT said in the beginning, if it all went bad then they would just lose money and it would have been a party for a while.

Even I believed that, he has a history of pissing away money irrationally so why not. He is an egotistical idiot who found a bunch of poor down-and-outs in the form of the pool players, who he could easily impress and get to worship him. Something he obviously loved and they didn't let him down, you read a lot of it here. I was very surprised though when he didn't pay.

Sorry Mac, anyone that thought that KT would not stiff anyone and everyone that he came in contact with had their head in the sand.

KT has a long history of being a low-life scam artist, a convicted felon of fraud, and a amoral, unethical predator that chooses the most helpless and desperate of people, the sick and desperate, as his victims. Seriously, what would make anyone think that KT would treat the pool community any better than he treats the sick, infirmed and elderly? MS had to know what KT was capable of.

I also tend to think that many, if not most, of the players had a little voice in their head telling them not to trust this KT character, but figured "what the hell, this may work. And even if it doesn't, I have nothing to lose compared to what I can gain." It was probably worth the shot for many, certainly not all.

Just thinking about KT right now is making lunch sound like a terrible idea.

Jim

JAM
12-10-2006, 11:23 AM
...I also tend to think that many, if not most, of the players had a little voice in their head telling them not to trust this KT character, but figured "what the hell, this may work. And even if it doesn't, I have nothing to lose compared to what I can gain." It was probably worth the shot for many, certainly not all....

Yes! :D

JAM

cuetique
12-10-2006, 11:35 AM
KT has a long history of being a low-life scam artist, a convicted felon of fraud, and a amoral, unethical predator that chooses the most helpless and desperate of people, the sick and desperate, as his victims. Jim
Tap-tippity-tap-tap TAP TAP

Concise and dead-on description.

But still, KT has sworn we naysayers will "eat our words". If that's the case, you and I both will be eating about 500 lbs of our own commentaries :D If that's the case, we can fire up the grill at my house, and wash it all down with a few gallons of [insert adult beverage of choice here].

macguy
12-10-2006, 11:38 AM
Sorry Mac, anyone that thought that KT would not stiff anyone and everyone that he came in contact with had their head in the sand.

KT has a long history of being a low-life scam artist, a convicted felon of fraud, and a amoral, unethical predator that chooses the most helpless and desperate of people, the sick and desperate, as his victims. Seriously, what would make anyone think that KT would treat the pool community any better than he treats the sick, infirmed and elderly? MS had to know what KT was capable of.

I also tend to think that many, if not most, of the players had a little voice in their head telling them not to trust this KT character, but figured "what the hell, this may work. And even if it doesn't, I have nothing to lose compared to what I can gain." It was probably worth the shot for many, certainly not all.

Just thinking about KT right now is making lunch sound like a terrible idea.

Jim


I knew he was capable of it but just didn't think an out and out "no pay" would happen. I just pictured postponements of tournaments and at some point it would just fizzle. To actually hold a tournament that on day one, they knew they had no money to pay and lie all week right to the faces of the players was just amazing.

What could they have possible been thinking, how were they going to explain this at the end of the week? Who actually knew and when? Did Deno know? If he did and he didn't just resign on the spot, he is even worse then we are giving him credit for.

jimmyg
12-10-2006, 12:22 PM
Tap-tippity-tap-tap TAP TAP

Concise and dead-on description.

But still, KT has sworn we naysayers will "eat our words". If that's the case, you and I both will be eating about 500 lbs of our own commentaries :D If that's the case, we can fire up the grill at my house, and wash it all down with a few gallons of [insert adult beverage of choice here].

Invitation accepted.:)

Jim