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mikepage
11-22-2006, 10:49 AM
So I've been playing 14.1 with a local guy after tuesday night league. He goes to 125; I go to 75. He's now beat me five times in a row. Then he whines about the spot every time after he beats me. Last night, when I offered to play some straight pool, he called and told his stepdad he would *not* come over to celebrate the guy's birthday but will play me instead. I said *that* tells me more than anything else what he thinks of the spot... ;-)

Last night, after I lost at 14.1, we played some 9-ball. I got him to give me the last four, though it was work I'll tell ya... I got up a few games at 10 a game. Then he upped it to 20 a game and I got up a few more till closing time.

Here's my problem. I actually think we're pretty even at that spot, but I don't think he'll give it to me again.

I need some ideas for 9-ball spots that are similar to the last four and maybe sound better but really aren't. Help me out please.

I know I know. Bowling... Golf...
Yes I know this is pathetic.

BTW, I told you about the nickle I lost at straight pool so you'd feel sorry for me.


Help!

Jude Rosenstock
11-22-2006, 10:55 AM
So I've been playing 14.1 with a local guy after tuesday night league. He goes to 125; I go to 75. He's now beat me five times in a row. Then he whines about the spot every time after he beats me. Last night, when I offered to play some straight pool, he called and told his stepdad he would *not* come over to celebrate the guy's birthday but will play me instead. I said *that* tells me more than anything else what he thinks of the spot... ;-)

Last night, after I lost at 14.1, we played some 9-ball. I got him to give me the last four, though it was work I'll tell ya... I got up a few games at 10 a game. Then he upped it to 20 a game and I got up a few more till closing time.

Here's my problem. I actually think we're pretty even at that spot, but I don't think he'll give it to me again.

I need some ideas for 9-ball spots that are similar to the last four and maybe sound better but really aren't. Help me out please.

I know I know. Bowling... Golf...
Yes I know this is pathetic.

BTW, I told you about the nickle I lost at straight pool so you'd feel sorry for me.


Help!


Wait, let me get this straight here... You lost five in a row to this guy and YOU'RE worried about losing the action??? Dude, I would sit tight and say, "I want the last 4 or I'm playing my girlfriend and going home."

Varney Cues
11-22-2006, 10:55 AM
If you need that much of a spot from the man...then ask for the wild 7 & 8. That way you can play a combo or roll your money ball without having to wait until the last 4 are left. A good option.

Bob Jewett
11-22-2006, 11:23 AM
...
I need some ideas for 9-ball spots that are similar to the last four and maybe sound better but really aren't. Help me out please.
You could try games on the wire. There was a player around here who shot about the 8 above me. He liked to cheat and had an IQ that's a low winning score at rotation. Anyway, he thought 3 on the wire in a race to 7 would be fair. After two sets, he changed his mind.

Aaron_S
11-22-2006, 11:41 AM
It really depends on two things: a) what is your ultimate goal b) do you intend to continue playing both games in a session?

It sounds like this guy might be too conservative to allow you to make a game in which you are heavily favored, so I would assume that your ultimate goal is just to keep the game as fair as possible. If not, and you're looking for some sort of bet that might prompt this guy to go off, then I'm not sure what to tell you. You have to keep in mind that, if the guy is that much better than you at playing the game, then he might be that much better at matching up as well, which puts you at a disadvantage before you even screw your cue together.

Now, if you do plan on continuing to play both games in a session, then it sounds like you're already doing something that keeps you fairly close as far as the $ is concerned, or at least it could be close if you arrange the bets properly. You could just say "if you're going to continue to only give me 50 pts. at 14.1, then I'm going to continue to need the last 4 at 9-ball". If, however, you're planning on playing 9-ball exclusively, and if he offers you the last 3 next time (which is what I would do) then I would take VC's advice and counter back with the wild 7 & 8. That spot should put you somewhere between the last 3 and last 4, and should end up being a tough game for both of you. Don't accept a counter offer of the "called 7 & 8" though (which is what I would counter with, lol) because there's a huge difference b/w those two spots.

Good luck!

SCCues
11-22-2006, 12:07 PM
If you need that much of a spot from the man...then ask for the wild 7 & 8. That way you can play a combo or roll your money ball without having to wait until the last 4 are left. A good option.
Another option I like is "the break and the wild 8". The break is huge in 9 ball and you'll have 2 money balls.

Russ Chewning
11-22-2006, 12:24 PM
You could try games on the wire. There was a player around here who shot about the 8 above me. He liked to cheat and had an IQ that's a low winning score at rotation. Anyway, he thought 3 on the wire in a race to 7 would be fair. After two sets, he changed his mind.

My god Bob, that is a HUGE spot! I played a German second tier pro who had a top 16 finish in his only American tourney (Sands Regency) with that spot and he HATED the action.

Russ

Russ Chewning
11-22-2006, 12:37 PM
To the OP, you really need to sit down and analyze your game and his game fully to arrive at a fair spot.

How are you getting the games you win in 9 ball? Are you running up to the last four when he doesn't make a ball on the break? Is he making a mistake, and you are taking over from there?

Can you put down the long shots and get position? Does he play safe exceptionally well? Does he dog it sometimes on the last few balls? Do you?

All of these factors influence the spot. I once played a friend of mine some cheap One Pocket that quickly escalated to some serious money, and I ended up spotting him 9-6 and the breaks. He got offered the breaks early in the session because he was either hitting a weak break or scratching off the break.

Become a student of the game. When you watch a live game or an Accu-Stats video, try to imagine the stroke and tip position on every shot.

When watching real people play, watch how smoothly they hit long shots. Watch how smoothly they hit draw shots. Watch how well they hit cut shots that have to be hit with spin for position. Are they pocketing the ball in the center of the pocket?

All these things you can use to beat your opponent. He may be a strong player, but if you key in on his weakness and leave him shots he has a much higher chance of missing, you can get him into "dog stroke" fairly easily.

An example of this is when I played One Pocket and would be down to the last ball when playing an opponent. It would be uptable right in a pocket, and I would pocket it, and leave him on his side of the table, with the cueball in the jaws of the pocket.

Your opponent is supposed to play safe in that spot, but my opponent kept putting a super stroke on the shot and cutting in backwards into his corner pocket to win the game. If you know the shot, you know you come an inch or two from scratching in your opponent's pocket, and that when you hit it PERFECTLY.

I got kind of tired of it when he hit it the third time in a row, and I told him, "Great shot, man! Of course, you know the first time you scratch in my pocket going for that shot, you'll never be able to make that shot on me again."

And I was right. Remember, observation skills and a quick wit are all that is needed to make a good game.

Good luck.

Russ

predator
11-22-2006, 12:42 PM
As a spot, I'd only take games on the wire if I were confronted against a superior player. Getting last few balls is embarassing, plus you're not really playing pure 9ball and you are definitely not improving your game.

For example, he gives you 3 games on a wire in a race to 9. If he wins the set, the handicap moves to 4 games, if you win, the handicap becomes 2. And so on...hopefully when you improve your game, the handicap becomes 0.

Actionhound
11-22-2006, 12:46 PM
Another option I like is "the break and the wild 8". The break is huge in 9 ball and you'll have 2 money balls.

yes... the 8 and the breaks is a pretty hefty spot in 9 ball... but that depends on two things... the break is only good if you have a monster break or you can run out very consistently... so i wouldnt recomend this guy adjusting to the 8 and the snaps from the last 4... something that would be close to the last 4 (and actually depending on your speed might be more weight) would be the 7 the last 3 and the breaks... if he asks you to adjust then you could tell him you will adjust either when you get the money back you lost to him playing straight pool or say... yes... i will adjust... we can bet 50 a game this time... :)

Pinocchio
11-22-2006, 01:06 PM
He's beat you 5 times in a row playing straits if you play 9 ball you still
need last 4 you're still stuck. If you play anymore straights sound like you
need an adjustment there for sure. If you don't you're are going to turn losing into a business. Thats something you don"t want to do if you are
a gambler.


Pinocchio

mikepage
11-22-2006, 01:18 PM
[...] You have to keep in mind that, if the guy is that much better than you at playing the game, then he might be that much better at matching up as well, which puts you at a disadvantage before you even screw your cue together.[...]


You're definitely on to something here ;-)....

I'm actually not too bad at negotiating. Unfortunately that's only because I've learned from him, and he's very good.



Now, if you do plan on continuing to play both games in a session, then it sounds like you're already doing something that keeps you fairly close as far as the $ is concerned, or at least it could be close if you arrange the bets properly. You could just say "if you're going to continue to only give me 50 pts. at 14.1, then I'm going to continue to need the last 4 at 9-ball".



That's a good idea. I'll try that next week and report the results.





Good luck!

thanks.

mikepage
11-22-2006, 01:29 PM
As a spot, I'd only take games on the wire if I were confronted against a superior player. [...].

I'm gonna have to disagree with this one.

Games on the wire from inferior players suits me fine.

VIProfessor
11-22-2006, 02:14 PM
So I've been playing 14.1 with a local guy after tuesday night league. He goes to 125; I go to 75. He's now beat me five times in a row. Then he whines about the spot every time after he beats me. Last night, when I offered to play some straight pool, he called and told his stepdad he would *not* come over to celebrate the guy's birthday but will play me instead. I said *that* tells me more than anything else what he thinks of the spot... ;-)

Last night, after I lost at 14.1, we played some 9-ball. I got him to give me the last four, though it was work I'll tell ya... I got up a few games at 10 a game. Then he upped it to 20 a game and I got up a few more till closing time.

Here's my problem. I actually think we're pretty even at that spot, but I don't think he'll give it to me again.

I need some ideas for 9-ball spots that are similar to the last four and maybe sound better but really aren't. Help me out please.

I know I know. Bowling... Golf...
Yes I know this is pathetic.

BTW, I told you about the nickle I lost at straight pool so you'd feel sorry for me.


Help!

Hi Mike,

If you think the spot in nine-ball is a fair game then why try to adjust that? Where you're getting robbed is in Straights. If my memory serves me correctly, your high run for the year is somewhere in the fifties. If you're getting spotted fifty balls to 125 and he's robbing you that obviously means that he plays pretty sporty. I would stand up on keeping the last four in nine-ball, and I would try to see if I could get something like forty or fifty no-count in Straights. Good luck, and remember that no action is better than bad action!

nyjoe14.1
11-22-2006, 02:22 PM
You could try games on the wire. There was a player around here who shot about the 8 above me. He liked to cheat and had an IQ that's a low winning score at rotation. Anyway, he thought 3 on the wire in a race to 7 would be fair. After two sets, he changed his mind.

If you’re the last 4 under someone you’ll need quite a few games on the wire

cbi1000
11-22-2006, 02:23 PM
Here is my two cents.
He robs you at 14.1 and you rob him at 9ball. If he wants to take some weight back in 9ball then you ask for more weight in 14.1. It's that simple.

Snapshot9
11-22-2006, 02:38 PM
Mike ... 4 on the wire to 9, or the wild 5 & 7 with alternate breaks. I won't tell you how I did it, but it is done with mathematical probabilities. amd of course the probabilities are based upon subjective estimates of various factors, i.e., estimating he runs out 90% of the time when he gets an open shot in 9 ball, etc..

mnShooter
11-22-2006, 03:16 PM
Another option I like is "the break and the wild 8". The break is huge in 9 ball and you'll have 2 money balls.

Having the break is a handicap if you can't run out.

uwate
11-22-2006, 03:16 PM
This is the order in which I would ask
Wild six and the last 3
Wild six
wild 7/8
last three and the call six
call six



You could add in the snaps too but thats pretty tough. Sounds like this guy plays jamup to give you the last four. Is he a pro player? In my experience, negotiating a spot with someone who can give you four balls is difficult. They have at least the same and likely much more experience at handicapping than you and its not like you will be able to sneak something by them that sounds better than the last 4 but is really the same. Like you will be able to sneak that one by...ehhh sounds iffy. That said, it certainly doesnt hurt to ask. :-)

mikepage
11-22-2006, 03:20 PM
Here is my two cents.
He robs you at 14.1 and you rob him at 9ball. If he wants to take some weight back in 9ball then you ask for more weight in 14.1. It's that simple.


Actually I think both spots are pretty close. In one of those 14.1 games, I missed essentially a spot shot for the win. Last night, I was shooting an open shot needing 13 for the win (with him needing 16). So it's not crazy or anything.

I'm the player who has been improving generally over the last several years, while he's been I think pretty steady. The problem is he didn't really know 14.1 until I asked him to play it five years ago. (He was about 30 yo at the time). He's a quick learner. He's good at seeing patterns. He rarely gets his cueball in trouble. And he has no problems ending a fifty-ball run by freezing me to a ball. So he's improving at straight pool.

I think I'm more or less the only person he's played this game with, and when we started he didn't know how to keep score, didn't know the three-foul penalty, and had no clue what to do with the fifteenth ball or the cueball when it's in the rack area.

I'm not a shotmaker, so I play better on a bar box. (Of the last 24 league games, I've gotten 8 "10-0" table runs. That is, 8 games I ran out either from the break or from my opponent's dry break.).

You'd think I should steer him to a barbox! But no, there's no better way to put a smile on his face than that.

JoeyA
11-22-2006, 03:33 PM
I need some ideas for 9-ball spots that are similar to the last four and maybe sound better but really aren't. Help me out please.

Help!

After barely beating him, did you whine and cry about how tough it was to beat him with the last four? If not, you are a slow learner. :-)

The problem is not the spot but what you make of the spot. It will be difficult to offer such a game that he thinks is better than the last four at least in his eyes but in reality is not.

If you try that, you should have three choices, all of which are close to the same but none of which are substantially less (for you). You obviously want to continue playing this charlatan (insert "poolplayer" here) but you must continue to let him think you are a rube at least as far as pool is concerned. When he whines about your first choice which will be the best game in your favor, even better than the last four, you should feign surprise and ask for his superior explanation as to why this is a worse game for him than the last four. Continue on with your suggestions, holding onto your most reasonable suggestion for last. Remember only three.... Any more than that and he will know you are no longer a rube.

As I remember, you do not have giant size hands but they are not petite either. Your first suggestion could be this one: Every time I shoot, when the cue ball stops rolling, I get to move the cue ball 1 foot (at this time, jerk a 12 " ruler out of your pool case and lay it on the table)and say "we play even up". When he looks at you like you are crazy simply ask for his explanation as to why the spot is out of line. Listening and looking incredulous is important at this time as well. As a second stab at securing this magnificent spot you should look suddenly inspired and say well all right then while I know I need to adjust the cue ball at least a foot, I will accept a spot where I get to move the cue ball a little less, "how about the distance of my hand" (which is a full 33% reduction if I guess correctly). Never smile coyly (while making any of these offers ) at this seasoned veteran of matching up as he must continue to believe that he is dealing with a rube. Even when he accepts your offer, make sure that you whine a great deal and also when you win. It is imperative that you whine or he will think you believe you have WAY the best of the game.

When you do get a game that is similar or close to the last four that you can still be competitive at, what are you gonna do????? WHINE, just like your opponent. It is part of the game for him and you have to play like him.

You could also consider a three ball spot: Make a big deal about the DRASTIC reduction with this spot (going from the last FOUR to only three money balls). You might even consider telling him that you want 8-5 on your money or some other ridiculous odds. The wild 5, 7 & 9 but make sure you say the WILD 9 redundantly and with unadulterated glee. (Anyone who says they want the WILD 9 is a rube). Give the man what he wants. Better yet, FIRST ask him for the break, the wild 5, wild 7 and say the WILD 9 like you are going bowling with a group of Steven King's storybook friends), then making a second stab at the same game but with the same spot minus the break. Never give the better player the break even if he begs, but you already know that.

Pick another decent spot from one of the other AZers and you have three basic choices.

This is a make-up test Mike and I know you can do better.

Whatever you do, WHINE. Keep in mind that I don't recommend this for every opponent, just those who practice this repetitive but varied mantra. We have a dozen or more "gamblers" from New Orleans and especially Baton Rouge who whine with the best in the world and who feel whining is an art form. The pool sport chose you, you accepted; now go do your penance.

Have fun with the matching up. :-)

JoeyA (BTW, don't take the 7,8 or 9 at any price unless you have another HIGHER gear besides the one you already showed him)

P.S. 2. : After you win, be sure and buy a drink, pay the time and WHINE. He really wants you to whine, it makes him feel good, if you whine well enough he may even play you one more time with the same spot, but be sure to whine with sincerity. Whine, whine, whine. Use it on anyone who practices it on a regular basis.

pdcue
11-22-2006, 03:37 PM
So I've been playing 14.1 with a local guy after tuesday night league. He goes to 125; I go to 75. He's now beat me five times in a row. Then he whines about the spot every time after he beats me. Last night, when I offered to play some straight pool, he called and told his stepdad he would *not* come over to celebrate the guy's birthday but will play me instead. I said *that* tells me more than anything else what he thinks of the spot... ;-)

Last night, after I lost at 14.1, we played some 9-ball. I got him to give me the last four, though it was work I'll tell ya... I got up a few games at 10 a game. Then he upped it to 20 a game and I got up a few more till closing time.

Here's my problem. I actually think we're pretty even at that spot, but I don't think he'll give it to me again.

I need some ideas for 9-ball spots that are similar to the last four and maybe sound better but really aren't. Help me out please.

I know I know. Bowling... Golf...
Yes I know this is pathetic.

BTW, I told you about the nickle I lost at straight pool so you'd feel sorry for me.


Help!

Two observations:

1 this guy beat you 5 TIMES IN A ROW at 125 to 75, and still whines about the spot

2. you think he won't give you the same spot, with which you won
ONE TIME

do you see a trend here?

tho you didn't mention it, I think you understand that the whining is a 'move' designed to keep you from asking for a bigger spot in 14.1

there is absolutely no way you should change the game because you
won one time

my prediction is he won't play again with the same spot, or any spot
he thinks you have any chance with

FWIW - it sounds like you have no chance at 125 to 75

HTH
Dale

mikepage
11-22-2006, 03:52 PM
Two observations:

1 this guy beat you 5 TIMES IN A ROW at 125 to 75, and still whines about the spot

2. you think he will wont give you the same spot, with which you won
ONE TIME

do you see a trend here?

tho you didn't mention it, I think you understand that the whining is a 'move' designed to keep you from asking for a bigger spot in 14.1

there is absolutely no way you should change the game because you
won one time

my prediction is he won't play again with the same spot, or any spot
he thinks you have any chance with

FWIW - it sounds like you have no chance at 125 to 75

HTH
Dale

You guys are inspiring me ;-) I'm going to keep batting my head on the 125 to 75 wall, and I'll keep yo posted

Tennesseejoe
11-22-2006, 04:38 PM
I think he is just setting you up for a bigger bet in 9 ball. He will ask to reduce the spot and bet more.

mikepage
11-22-2006, 05:03 PM
[...]
Whatever you do, WHINE. ]

Don't ever change Joey. You had me smiling the whole post.

I *have* learned a few lessons from this guy.

For instance, I've learned that after agreeing on a game, I must say, shaking my head, ...

"Wow, I AT LEAST have to get the first break!" as I walk to the head of the table. Of course he won't give it to me. But it gets in the last word and sets the presumption of unreasonable-to-me-unless-proven-otherwise.

Then if I win, I have to speak before he gets a chance, with a tone that I just dodged a big bullet: "I can't *believe* I got out of this alive. That is *not* enough weight. You never jaw that seven ball like that. And when I stuck you behind the five? I pulled that out of my a##. .. I can't do *that* game again. That's not enough weight...

Flex
11-22-2006, 08:39 PM
Having the break is a handicap if you can't run out.

Not if you know how to break, not make a ball, and leave the cue ball safe... :D

Knowing how to do that consistently will put a crimp in anyone's game, or at least make it plenty difficult for your opponent to run out when he gets to the table right after your break.

Flex

Black-Balled
11-23-2006, 06:39 AM
Another option I like is "the break and the wild 8". The break is huge in 9 ball and you'll have 2 money balls.

WOw, from the last 4 to the 8& the breaks? You may NOT speak for me in any capacity.:eek:

JoeyA
11-23-2006, 09:30 AM
You never jaw that seven ball like that. And when I stuck you behind the five? I pulled that out of my a##. .. I can't do *that* game again. That's not enough weight...


Mike, you've got the whole package. No need for improvement or further testing. :-)
JoeyA

DaveFagan
11-23-2006, 09:46 AM
You're not going to outplay the guy, so use your head. Pool players have big egos. It is not usually a team sport. Just the player and his cue, so they are the center of their world, your world, and the free world. Play t what he can't see. The top back of his head. Between the shoulder blades. His derriere. Also transitory odors. Wow, your hair is sure thinning. You should see it when you bend under the table light. Your butt looks peculiar when you bend over. What makes your shoulder plade stick up when you are shooting? When you get a chance show me how you do that punch stroke of yours. Is your pool case from the Orient, it smells like it was tanned with elephant or tiger urine? Could be your socks or your feet, though. When did you start putting that twitch in your stroke? You know, now he'll be distracted from the work at hand. Pool. Ya gotta love it.

desert1pocket
11-23-2006, 10:54 AM
After barely beating him, did you whine and cry about how tough it was to beat him with the last four? If not, you are a slow learner. :-)

The problem is not the spot but what you make of the spot. It will be difficult to offer such a game that he thinks is better than the last four at least in his eyes but in reality is not.

If you try that, you should have three choices, all of which are close to the same but none of which are substantially less (for you). You obviously want to continue playing this charlatan (insert "poolplayer" here) but you must continue to let him think you are a rube at least as far as pool is concerned. When he whines about your first choice which will be the best game in your favor, even better than the last four, you should feign surprise and ask for his superior explanation as to why this is a worse game for him than the last four. Continue on with your suggestions, holding onto your most reasonable suggestion for last. Remember only three.... Any more than that and he will know you are no longer a rube.

As I remember, you do not have giant size hands but they are not petite either. Your first suggestion could be this one: Every time I shoot, when the cue ball stops rolling, I get to move the cue ball 1 foot (at this time, jerk a 12 " ruler out of your pool case and lay it on the table)and say "we play even up". When he looks at you like you are crazy simply ask for his explanation as to why the spot is out of line. Listening and looking incredulous is important at this time as well. As a second stab at securing this magnificent spot you should look suddenly inspired and say well all right then while I know I need to adjust the cue ball at least a foot, I will accept a spot where I get to move the cue ball a little less, "how about the distance of my hand" (which is a full 33% reduction if I guess correctly). Never smile coyly (while making any of these offers ) at this seasoned veteran of matching up as he must continue to believe that he is dealing with a rube. Even when he accepts your offer, make sure that you whine a great deal and also when you win. It is imperative that you whine or he will think you believe you have WAY the best of the game.

When you do get a game that is similar or close to the last four that you can still be competitive at, what are you gonna do????? WHINE, just like your opponent. It is part of the game for him and you have to play like him.

You could also consider a three ball spot: Make a big deal about the DRASTIC reduction with this spot (going from the last FOUR to only three money balls). You might even consider telling him that you want 8-5 on your money or some other ridiculous odds. The wild 5, 7 & 9 but make sure you say the WILD 9 redundantly and with unadulterated glee. (Anyone who says they want the WILD 9 is a rube). Give the man what he wants. Better yet, FIRST ask him for the break, the wild 5, wild 7 and say the WILD 9 like you are going bowling with a group of Steven King's storybook friends), then making a second stab at the same game but with the same spot minus the break. Never give the better player the break even if he begs, but you already know that.

Pick another decent spot from one of the other AZers and you have three basic choices.

This is a make-up test Mike and I know you can do better.

Whatever you do, WHINE. Keep in mind that I don't recommend this for every opponent, just those who practice this repetitive but varied mantra. We have a dozen or more "gamblers" from New Orleans and especially Baton Rouge who whine with the best in the world and who feel whining is an art form. The pool sport chose you, you accepted; now go do your penance.

Have fun with the matching up. :-)

JoeyA (BTW, don't take the 7,8 or 9 at any price unless you have another HIGHER gear besides the one you already showed him)

P.S. 2. : After you win, be sure and buy a drink, pay the time and WHINE. He really wants you to whine, it makes him feel good, if you whine well enough he may even play you one more time with the same spot, but be sure to whine with sincerity. Whine, whine, whine. Use it on anyone who practices it on a regular basis.

I hope that none of the players around here read this post. It might make matching up much more difficult for me.

sde
11-23-2006, 11:26 AM
You're not going to outplay the guy, so use your head. Pool players have big egos. It is not usually a team sport. Just the player and his cue, so they are the center of their world, your world, and the free world. Play t what he can't see. The top back of his head. Between the shoulder blades. His derriere. Also transitory odors. Wow, your hair is sure thinning. You should see it when you bend under the table light. Your butt looks peculiar when you bend over. What makes your shoulder plade stick up when you are shooting? When you get a chance show me how you do that punch stroke of yours. Is your pool case from the Orient, it smells like it was tanned with elephant or tiger urine? Could be your socks or your feet, though. When did you start putting that twitch in your stroke? You know, now he'll be distracted from the work at hand. Pool. Ya gotta love it.


Tiger urine? :eek: ROTFLMAO

Steve