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Blackjack
02-24-2007, 01:51 PM
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u151/Dsapolis/Break_Shot_Tips.gif

Vinman
02-24-2007, 03:08 PM
Blackjack, how do you prefer hitting the cueball on this shot? I've been hitting this with high right to avoid scratching in the lower left corner, but sometimes I don't come out of it with a shot.

Blackjack
02-24-2007, 03:26 PM
If you are scratching, that means you are contacting the 5 ball (in this diagram) too low. Look at the arrow in the diagram and pay attention to where I make contact with the ball in the stack. If I contact that ball too forward then there is a possibility for the scratch. Remember - neat in - neat out. Pay attention to where you send the cue ball into the stack - that make all the difference in the world on whether or not you get a good result or not.

Steve Lipsky
02-24-2007, 08:12 PM
Blackjack,

I really like your idea about consciously trying to make your secondary break shots disperse the balls to the opposite side of the table of your intended break ball. Sorry, bad sentence, but you know what I mean :).

I think it's a great concept; one that I've never consciously considered, though I suspect I might do it to some degree subconsciously. So I'm wondering how conscious of a concept this is to you, as you're playing the rack? Is it often overtly in your mind?

Thanks,
Steve

Rod
02-25-2007, 12:44 AM
Steve,

Not answering for Blackjack but I always try to plan my secondary break towards the opposite side. When possible I clear off some lane blockers, leave a backup and set up a secondary that moves a few balls toward the opposite side.

I'd prefer not to move to many or hit them to hard so I don't create to much clutter or bring some back to the side I just cleared. I prefer to chip away from a rack which includes the secondary when possible. Hope this makes sense but its just the way I try to play.

You guys are starting to wake me up. I hope to read more insightful posts in addition to the ones already posted. Keep up the good work it's appreciated from all of us. Hopefully I can find a pool table more often in the near future.

I wanted to add a comment. In my more recent past, playing very little my game sucks. It goes farther down playing 14-1. I have to play 14-1 a fair amount until I can even think the game. Games like 9 ball is a no brainer it comes back up pretty quick. Its just sad my 14-1 is so bad. I guess what I'm saying or asking does anyone else who use to play 14-1 pretty sporty suffer from this? I mean my mind just doesn't get up to speed for this game compared to other games. I think I know the answer, play more 14-1. LOL

Rod

Gerry
02-25-2007, 03:30 AM
yup, 14.1 is harder to play "out" of stroke then any other game IMO. In 9ball you get to the table more frequently, one pocket even more, but 14.1 you can get loose before a match, break the balls and sit for an hour before your next shot. Thats not easy if you are playing well....worse when you know your out of stroke.

I've heard Rempe, Varner, and Hopkins say on Accu-stats that to play in a top flight 14.1 event they need to just play that game for a week or two to get into stroke for the game....if they need 2 weeks, I'll take 2 years!:)

On the subject, I like to start practice sessions with the balls racked, nudged open a little with a few loose, the cue ball on the end rail with a tough shot in the long corner. I'll shoot it til I make it then go ahead and run balls. I try to remember how I go about making that in practice when it invariably comes up in a match.

Gerry

Blackjack
02-25-2007, 02:54 PM
Blackjack,

I really like your idea about consciously trying to make your secondary break shots disperse the balls to the opposite side of the table of your intended break ball. Sorry, bad sentence, but you know what I mean :).

I think it's a great concept; one that I've never consciously considered, though I suspect I might do it to some degree subconsciously. So I'm wondering how conscious of a concept this is to you, as you're playing the rack? Is it often overtly in your mind?

Thanks,
Steve

Thanks Steve, and yes - I try to determine which balls will spread out that way from where my break ball lies. This will change with factors such as position of the break ball, the angle of the shot, the speed of the shot, etc, etc. Here is a diagram in the book where I discuss hitting the contact point on the ball in the stack. Many players scratch for two basic reasons:

1) They hit too high or too low (as depicted in the diagram)
2) they don't have an exit strategy for whitey after the contact the stack.

I am guilty of this as well, and I wish I had a nickel for every run that has ended due to my carelessness on the break shot.

Here is the diagram - I hope this explains it a bit better.


http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u151/Dsapolis/Break_contact-1.jpg

Vahmurka
02-26-2007, 10:12 AM
I usually find myself confused when it comes to how to hit the stack - follow or draw the cueball. John Schmidt describes some shots during his runs but rarely, if ever, explains, just says "here I hit it with follow". In case of follow some English is applied, inside if I'm not mistaken?
I wonder if there is any simple rule to determine that choice? Like for example whene the CB attacks two rear rows of balls you hit it with follow, and if two top - draw it slightly off the rack?
I could experiment with same positions, but usually I get overwhelmed with guessing during practice.
I learnt some principles (CB above/below OB) from Grady's and Sigel's tapes but as far as I remember they were talking about draw/follow when breaking from the rear, not with side breaks.

VKJ
02-27-2007, 09:53 AM
Thanks Steve, and yes - I try to determine which balls will spread out that way from where my break ball lies. This will change with factors such as position of the break ball, the angle of the shot, the speed of the shot, etc, etc. Here is a diagram in the book where I discuss hitting the contact point on the ball in the stack. Many players scratch for two basic reasons:

1) They hit too high or too low (as depicted in the diagram)
2) they don't have an exit strategy for whitey after the contact the stack.

I am guilty of this as well, and I wish I had a nickel for every run that has ended due to my carelessness on the break shot.

Here is the diagram - I hope this explains it a bit better.


http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u151/Dsapolis/Break_contact-1.jpg

Blackjack,
Have you or are you publishing your book. All the pages that you have posted in this and other threads are wonderful. It's exciting to see 14.1 tips and stratgies that you discuss. Like Steve Lipsky's offering they are much better and more detailed than I have found in all 14.1 books. Thanks

Njhustler1
03-02-2007, 08:14 AM
This is good stuff! Keep it coming if there's more where that came from. Break shots are my achilles heal. Even when I make the shot, which is not as high a percentage of the time as it should be, I tend to hit the pack in the wrong place and get a poor result. Probably because I'm just aiming for the pack and not a specific spot on the pack.

mosconiac
03-02-2007, 09:14 AM
THANKS for sharing your expertise, Jack! I really need it.

Break shots are my achilles heal. Even when I make the shot, which is not as high a percentage of the time as it should be, I tend to hit the pack in the wrong place and get a poor result. Probably because I'm just aiming for the pack and not a specific spot on the pack.
It's as if you typed what is in my mind.

I have few problems getting thru the rack of 14 (sure, its not text book and I sometimes fail on secondary breaks), but I rarely get great results off the "side of the rack" break. I tend to miss the ball if I leave a steep cut angle on the break ball (Schmidt remarks that a steep angle with follow is best and I can't disagree). If I get parallel or a little shallow on the break ball (Grady says to draw the CB and I can't disagree), I tend to either stick to the rack or draw all the way down table.

I do better with "behind the rack" breaks (using high-inside to go 3 rails to the center of the table).

Kevin
03-03-2007, 08:35 PM
I have few problems getting thru the rack of 14 (sure, its not text book and I sometimes fail on secondary breaks), but I rarely get great results off the "side of the rack" break. I tend to miss the ball if I leave a steep cut angle on the break ball (Schmidt remarks that a steep angle with follow is best and I can't disagree). If I get parallel or a little shallow on the break ball (Grady says to draw the CB and I can't disagree), I tend to either stick to the rack or draw all the way down table.

I do better with "behind the rack" breaks (using high-inside to go 3 rails to the center of the table).

Sounds like my problems... we could have fun playing!

Make percentage on steep cuts increases with practice, and perhaps --just possibly-- not hitting them too hard, since you already have the perfect angle power is less necessary for a good spread. Steep cuts also imply the cue is nearer the rail than ball and stack, so follow into the rack makes a scratch almost impossible, now just get the cue to bounce or burrow through the rack to foot cushion then back towards center table, hard enough that you don't end up on the bottom rail with 6 other balls and nothing but a 4-ball combo to shoot.

Parallel or shallow means you need more power to bounce off and get free of the rack. But the action depends on which ball is hit, and carom angle low, high, or center. Hitting the stack on the "low carom side" of a ball with no draw to me means stuck to the stack. Center or high side with a touch of draw seems ideal to pull back up towards center table. Sometimes I wonder if these great players adjust the speed of their hit/draw to allow the draw to curve into the stack ball at center or above center on the carom line, sacrificing a bit of speed for perfect angle so they don't hit the low side of the stack ball.

Not having the benefit of playing "real" 14-1 players (just straight-shooting A and B class 9-ballers I entice into a game), I have to go by my match tape and instructional library of books and videos for deducing basic principles.

What I have seen from watching matches and instructional tapes from Sigel, Rempe, Grady, Schmidt, etc. is the burning desire to get the cue back into the center area of the table, and at that even or less than the center pocket string, give or take a half diamond or so. Angle into the rack, exact ball contacted, resulting carom angle anticipated, then speeds and spins (high, low, L-R) calculated to get whitey back to center as cleanly and safely as possible so there is a choice of likely shots on the balls most likely broken out. This seems the only GOLDEN RULE of intent on break shots I note.

Obviously, players like these are 100% confident of making the break shot (mortifyingly so to us lesser skilled four-legged cloven-hoofed dolts who clop the stage and moo twice for yes we also love the game, but can't dance so artfully). When the chance to go into the rack safely at speed presents, the rack spreads beautifully. When the angle is not so favorable, they settle for a smaller breakout, get the cue away from the pack a bit and play for a few likely balls, with good odds enhanced by their (also mortifying) excellent position play skills to tidy up and secondary breaks.