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lfigueroa
03-23-2007, 06:30 AM
Don't know if this has been done before, but anywhos... what's you order of precedence for selecting a break shot. I go something like this:

1. Side of the rack
2. Behind the rack
3. Cut shot into the side pocket
4. Corner pocket hanger, one-rail into the bottom of the rack
5. Side pocket follow shot into the top of the rack
6. Ball on the rail

Lou Figueroa

selftaut
03-23-2007, 06:38 AM
1,3,5,4,6,2

Steve Lipsky
03-23-2007, 07:16 AM
Lou,

Great to have you contributing!

Here is a post I originally made on CCB, on this topic:

Here is a WEI diagram with my breakshots listed, in numerical order, of how I look for them. So the 1 ball represents my favorite, and the 14 represents my least favorite.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AKpK4BHVo4CFaO3DEeg4EAVe1FWMI4GLlU4HYIX3IWEW4JS MG2KUfE3LbIB1MWnt4NaSJ1PjEU4qUrhA&ZZ4rKNTB&ZZ2sLAaC&ZZ1tVjBD&ZZ@

I included some letters for reference:

A is where I want to be on the 7
B is where I want to be on the 10 (and the 1)
C is where I want to be on the 11
D is where I want to be on the 13 (via a BIH by stopping the cue in the rack)

The shots on the 10 (2 rails with inside english) and the 11 are two of my favorites to play, because they look pretty and are actually remarkably easy.

- Steve

Steve Lipsky
03-23-2007, 07:19 AM
Don't know if this has been done before, but anywhos... what's you order of precedence for selecting a break shot. I go something like this:

4. Corner pocket hanger, one-rail into the bottom of the rack

Lou Figueroa

I forgot about this one Lou! In my diagram I'd place it between my 8 and 9, so we each probably roughly like it/dislike it to the same degree :).

- Steve

jondrums
03-23-2007, 07:38 AM
Lou,
The shots on the 10 (2 rails with inside english) and the 11 are two of my favorites to play, because they look pretty and are actually remarkably easy.
- Steve

Can you give me a better idea of the cue ball path for the 10 ball shot? Can you explain why wouldn't you play it with low outside and come two rails the other way around the table?

For the 11 ball, I've tried the one railer a bunch of times and it seems fairly sensitive to the exact ball placement so the angle coming off the rail goes into the side of the rack. Or are you doing a two railer off the long rails?

thanks,
Jon

briandlau
03-23-2007, 07:58 AM
Can you give me a better idea of the cue ball path for the 10 ball shot? Can you explain why wouldn't you play it with low outside and come two rails the other way around the table?
Jon

With low, you'll actually be slowing the cue ball down while also creating a longer path for yourself. Steve's angle into the pack is much easier to judge using inside, and with much greater margin for error.

Steve Lipsky
03-23-2007, 08:01 AM
Can you give me a better idea of the cue ball path for the 10 ball shot? Can you explain why wouldn't you play it with low outside and come two rails the other way around the table?

For the 11 ball, I've tried the one railer a bunch of times and it seems fairly sensitive to the exact ball placement so the angle coming off the rail goes into the side of the rack. Or are you doing a two railer off the long rails?

thanks,
Jon

The shot on the 10 has to do with the side pockets, and the better angle to get into the pack.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4JSMG4PLDO4kLDO4kPrJ1kQni1kbHx4kFBn4kFBn4rKNTB&ZZ@

There is no side pocket scratch at all, and I can also tell you I can't remember scratching in the corner pocket (off the rack) a single time on this break.

Compare to:

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4JSMG4PLDO4kLDO4kPrI1kBdj2kbNd3kGYF4rKNTB&ZZ@

You have to come much closer to the side pocket to hit the rack using outside. One mistake and you can scratch easily. To compensate, I often see players trying to miss the side pocket scratch so much that they go way too short and miss the rack.

- Steve

Steve Lipsky
03-23-2007, 09:52 AM
I hope other posters will consider trying this also. I'd be very interested to know the break-shot preferences of other players...

Blackjack
03-23-2007, 10:02 AM
Don't know if this has been done before, but anywhos... what's you order of precedence for selecting a break shot. I go something like this:

1. Side of the rack
2. Behind the rack
3. Cut shot into the side pocket
4. Corner pocket hanger, one-rail into the bottom of the rack
5. Side pocket follow shot into the top of the rack
6. Ball on the rail

Lou Figueroa

My order of preference
1,2,6,3,4,5.

Steve, that 10 ball shot is pretty nice. Here is one that I learned by going brain-dead and making some very bad position errors. lol

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u151/Dsapolis/modified_side_break.jpg

Gerry
03-23-2007, 11:03 AM
I used to have favorites til I got to talk with Allen Hopkins about breakers and different tables. We were sitting between matches with Jack Colavito and Allen was talking about how the tables were'nt breaking well with side o the rackers, so He said it's time to go to the back of the rack! wich he did with great success. I NEVER gave any consideration...before that day.....about his theory.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AXeY4BCYB3CCpA4DCYe4EFCe3FCxe4GBKP3HAMB3IAUe3JF bd4KDnP3LBjP3MEMO4NBJl3OBal3Paxm@

This my pad breaker. I'm a lefty, and like the the shallow cut angle along with being able to stand right on top of the shot....most likely because I'm short!:)

Gerry

Dan White
03-23-2007, 02:30 PM
Hi Lou! Good to see you here. I really don't have anything to add here because nobody cares what my break preferences are. :o However, I do seem to have more success with side breaks than back of the rack, but I'm not sure what the result would be if I shot each type 20 times or so and see which works out better for sure.

Dan White

lfigueroa
03-23-2007, 02:46 PM
Lou,

Great to have you contributing!

Here is a post I originally made on CCB, on this topic:

Here is a WEI diagram with my breakshots listed, in numerical order, of how I look for them. So the 1 ball represents my favorite, and the 14 represents my least favorite.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AKpK4BHVo4CFaO3DEeg4EAVe1FWMI4GLlU4HYIX3IWEW4JS MG2KUfE3LbIB1MWnt4NaSJ1PjEU4qUrhA&ZZ4rKNTB&ZZ2sLAaC&ZZ1tVjBD&ZZ@

I included some letters for reference:

A is where I want to be on the 7
B is where I want to be on the 10 (and the 1)
C is where I want to be on the 11
D is where I want to be on the 13 (via a BIH by stopping the cue in the rack)

The shots on the 10 (2 rails with inside english) and the 11 are two of my favorites to play, because they look pretty and are actually remarkably easy.

- Steve

Thanks for the welcome, Steve.

Looking at the diagram, I'm somewhat surprised your numero uno is so low on the rack. Generally speaking, and given a choice, I like something like your #2 as my #1. Of course, I watched some of the European guys at Bob's 14.1 challenge and they also seemed prefer a lower break ball. On the other hand, if you watch John Schmidt's DVD run, he always seems to have a higher break ball, similar to the 2 ball.

So what's your thinking on lower vs higher?

Lou Figueroa

lfigueroa
03-23-2007, 02:49 PM
[QUOTE=Gerry]I used to have favorites til I got to talk with Allen Hopkins about breakers and different tables. We were sitting between matches with Jack Colavito and Allen was talking about how the tables were'nt breaking well with side o the rackers, so He said it's time to go to the back of the rack!

This is a really good thought.

It's sort of like at 1pocket. Sometimes, for unknown reasons, the balls break better towards one pocket than the other.

Lou Figueroa

lfigueroa
03-23-2007, 02:51 PM
Hi Lou! Good to see you here. I really don't have anything to add here because nobody cares what my break preferences are. :o However, I do seem to have more success with side breaks than back of the rack, but I'm not sure what the result would be if I shot each type 20 times or so and see which works out better for sure.

Dan White

Yo, Dan. Thanks for the welcome.

But you're wrong -- at least I care what your preferences are :-)

So what are your top five?

Lou Figueroa

Dan White
03-23-2007, 05:03 PM
[QUOTE=Gerry]

Lou Figueroa

Rempe (name dropping) told me that what separates the great players from the good ones is their ability to adapt to the new conditions, and to recognize that conditions might be changing during a match.

dwhite

Dan White
03-23-2007, 05:34 PM
Yo, Dan. Thanks for the welcome.

But you're wrong -- at least I care what your preferences are :-)

So what are your top five?

Lou Figueroa

I'm kind of anal in that if I haven't done an exhaustive study of every angle on every kind of break shot already, then I don't know what to think. :)

My favs to date are:
1) Mosconi style break (favored by a WIDE margin)
2) same as 1 except more shallow
3) side pocket break
4) back of pack break
5) oddball breaks where the cue ball has to go to a rail or two first.

It is interesting to me that the experienced players prefer 4 over 3. I tend to get into trouble with 4. I know it was nearly 100 years ago, but supposedly Greenleaf favored the side break.

dwhite

Steve Lipsky
03-23-2007, 08:57 PM
Thanks for the welcome, Steve.

Looking at the diagram, I'm somewhat surprised your numero uno is so low on the rack. Generally speaking, and given a choice, I like something like your #2 as my #1. Of course, I watched some of the European guys at Bob's 14.1 challenge and they also seemed prefer a lower break ball. On the other hand, if you watch John Schmidt's DVD run, he always seems to have a higher break ball, similar to the 2 ball.

So what's your thinking on lower vs higher?

Lou Figueroa

I much prefer hitting my break shots with follow, and doing so on a low break shot is almost always correct. As you know, follow works on many other side-rack break shots, but I find it's a little more dependent on the exact angle and exactly where you hit the rack (when the break ball is higher).

Just to be clear, I don't like a break shot so low that I'll only hit the corner ball. That's not so good obviously. But one where I'll hit the lower part of the rack (maybe on the 4th ball down, or between the 4th and 3rd) usually breaks the rack very well. And if you have a good angle on the break ball, you don't even have to hit the rack too hard to get a great spread.

- Steve

bruin70
03-23-2007, 09:42 PM
i like my breakshot slightly above the rack with an ervolino angle, since i prefer to hit the head ball. i get a good spread without a powerful break, and the rack opens like a flower.

with good follow, the cb bounds back off the rack and overspins dead in the center of the table. (that's my PERFECT break of course)

Gerry
03-24-2007, 04:18 AM
this thread got me thinking back to a discussion I had with an old timer straight pool player about breakers. He reminded me of a few facts about old tyme 14.1 on 5x10's which I think should be taken into consideration when talking about early Mosconi, Greenleaf....etc

> some side of the rack breakers (think high on the rack)can't be reached on the big tables, or your left long or using a rake.

> side pocket breakers on big tables are always reachable and you are staring at the biggest pocket on the table with at most a 3 foot shot.

> on the old slower Mali cloth you had a harder time powering through the rack on a breaker like we can on a 9'er with Simonis, so they had to more or less chip away at the corners and the top 2 balls not to get stuck.

> Also on the same subject...it's always said by Mosconi that great 14.1 is played in the bottom 2 corners and side pockets. No wonder since he learned on the 5x10's, and I would NOT want to be firing balls in the upper corners 10 feet away!:)

Gerry