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boradriver
04-04-2007, 04:51 PM
I started playing in a local 14.1 league about 2 months ago and it really has me frustrated. There are a few good players in the mix but most are C to low B players IMO (myself included) but the way the guy running it is doing the handicaps seems not to be working. His idea is if you win two matches in a row you go up one handicap and if you have 2 loses in a row you go down. It doesn't matter how many innings or who you play. The highest rating is AA and the lowest is C and the matches are races to 125. Know this is the 10th week of a 12 week schedule and I'm 9W-1L and he now has me as a AA which I shouldn't be an A in any game. Now I know people are going to say but your winning and I agree but someone can be rated a B and have a record of 5W-6L and never go down and have no chance to get in the money. I really think he should take into account how many innings,what the final scores are,highrun,safties, and average run not just W/L. To give you an idea of what I mean he has a highrun for the session of 58 and has many runs in the high 40s were as my highrun is 28 and my next is 19 but yet I have to spot him 15 balls now. He is the better player no question he has runs hundreds and runs 60s and 70s in practice regularly. So IMO I shouldn't have to spot him he should be spotting me so his system doesn't work.
Anyone care to share their league setup and handicap system or their thoughts on my rambling above?

Thanks

Bob Jewett
04-04-2007, 05:38 PM
... Anyone care to share their league setup and handicap system or their thoughts on my rambling above?

Thanks
Sure. See the article "2003-06 Handicapping 14.1 -- instructions for setting up a league" at http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/BD_articles.html

This league now adjusts ratings by 3 rating points after each match, and that seems to work well enough. From the strongest player in my league to the weakest is about 300 rating points.
Making the large very steps that your LO seems to use is a major mistake. You need finer gradations.

I think the hardest part of any league is to set the right starting level of new players. The LO needs some flexibility during the first several weeks of a new player's participation.

One other feature of the league I play in is that the length of the match can be changed easily. Top players normally go to 140, but if two beginners play, they might both go to 50 or 60. Last night I played my second match to only 100 by mutual consent.

boradriver
04-04-2007, 09:50 PM
Sure. See the article "2003-06 Handicapping 14.1 -- instructions for setting up a league" at http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/BD_articles.html

This league now adjusts ratings by 3 rating points after each match, and that seems to work well enough. From the strongest player in my league to the weakest is about 300 rating points.
Making the large very steps that your LO seems to use is a major mistake. You need finer gradations.

I think the hardest part of any league is to set the right starting level of new players. The LO needs some flexibility during the first several weeks of a new player's participation.

One other feature of the league I play in is that the length of the match can be changed easily. Top players normally go to 140, but if two beginners play, they might both go to 50 or 60. Last night I played my second match to only 100 by mutual consent.

thanks alot looks like alot of information available in those articles. When I checked the ratings tonight he has me as a AA and the last two matches I have to play are both C rated players. So I have to spot them 80 to 125 so I have to be on and hope they get hit by a train to win.

Bob Jewett
04-05-2007, 03:57 PM
... One other feature of the league I play in is that ...
there are handicapped high run awards. Basically, the LO has figured out high run goals according to your handicap, and your run is graded by the percentage of your goal that you reach. For example, my goal might be 90, and a run of 60 would be a 67% performance, while Blind Joe might have a goal of 20 so a 14 would get him 70% and the prize. The high run awards are a significant part of the season's prizes.

hobokenapa
04-05-2007, 04:24 PM
Check mine out at the link below. The players seem to like it.

TheWizard
04-05-2007, 05:25 PM
Bob, I was wondering whether you would prefer a no count handicapp system or the system that you're playing in now? :)

I was taking a look at the 14and1 no count handicapp set up and it seems to be pretty straight forward and clean cut, what are your thoughts? :)

Willie

Bob Jewett
04-05-2007, 06:33 PM
Bob, I was wondering whether you would prefer a no count handicapp system or the system that you're playing in now? :)

I was taking a look at the 14and1 no count handicapp set up and it seems to be pretty straight forward and clean cut, what are your thoughts? :)

Willie
I think it is much harder to fairly handicap players of various abilities by no-count, but it might work. I'm not convinced it would exactly be straight pool, however.

TheWizard
04-06-2007, 05:00 AM
Yeah, I had been wondering though that the "no count" might be a better system to show the overall improvement of players, to an extent and certainly a more straight forward handicapp set up for those who may be new to playing straight pool in a league format, and perhaps therefore allowing other players to join in as well :)

I was wondering how the handicapp system works that you play in, Bob? :), the reason I ask is, that it might be possible to set up 2x individual Straight Pool leagues, the first having a count handicapps for beginniner - good ameteur players, and a no count handicapp system for the more advanced players :)

What are your thoughts? :)

Willie

Bob Jewett
04-06-2007, 03:35 PM
... I was wondering how the handicapp system works that you play in, Bob? : ...
Pretty much all of the matches are competitive, even the ones at 140-20.

Williebetmore
04-07-2007, 09:06 AM
Bob, I was wondering whether you would prefer a no count handicapp system or the system that you're playing in now? :)

I was taking a look at the 14and1 no count handicapp set up and it seems to be pretty straight forward and clean cut, what are your thoughts? :)

Willie

Willie,
Just some unasked for advice; the "no-count" handicap systems are SEVERELY flawed in my opinion. We briefly experimented with the system - it was a very short time before the poorer players found out that their best strategy was to immediately shoot all potential break shots. The intermediate players would STOMP the advanced players (shutting them out not infrequently as they mastered the principles of eliminating all the break shots from the table). The games took a lot of innings.

I think it is a TERRIBLE system for a league; and it is (to answer Bob Jewett's speculation above) NOT straight pool. The beginning players learn to shoot all of their easy shots first, eliminate all potential break shots as soon as they can, and settle for a few balls every rack. The advanced players will get LOTS of practice manufacturing break balls. An undesirable situation in my view; since the game is easy to handicap in a more traditional fashion.

pool
04-07-2007, 09:13 AM
Hmm. This is interesting since I plan on starting a 14.1 league here in Pittsburgh this summer. I have a room lined up, but some details need to be worked out. I tried to launch it the other year, but didn't get much player interest in the first location. I will be doing a non-capped handicap system where you go up with every win and go down with every win. You will go up faster than you go down, though.

Scottster
04-07-2007, 02:39 PM
I think the hardest part of any league is to set the right starting level of new players. The LO needs some flexibility during the first several weeks of a new player's participation.

The way I establish a new player's handicap is by having them play 12 racks of equal offense, and drop their 2 worst rack scores. Then their score is transfered over to the handicap chart.

For example, a player that scores 96 will have a starting handicap of 176.

For the new player, his first 3 matches will either go up or down 10 points per match then 5 points per match for the rest of the season.

I am a strong advocate for using equal offense to establish handicaps.