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View Full Version : WPBA: foul on all balls for '07


tjlmbklr
04-15-2007, 10:20 AM
Finally watched my DVR'ed episode of the Carolina classic (? one of those) and saw they made a rule of foul on all balls for 2007. What is your take on that? I loved when I finally played in a real league (meaning BCA) and I no longer had to worry about the drunken pool leagues where if you touched a ball it was a foul. I mean come on when you have a bar full of drinkers (remember I am from Brew city) it is hard to avoid at least not touching something. I like the rule that if you are to accidentally touch a ball you give the opponent the option to have it moved back or to keep it put; kind of a strategy of some sorts. Now I know that these are professionals and they are all about the game, but when you have ladies with long hair and some times baggy clothing (although I like the tight stuff on particular players) doesn't it seem ridiculous. I no longer play in bar leagues and I rarely drink during pool anymore but thought it was funny that the bar league I played for with the most non sanctioned made up rules I have ever seen in one of the highest bar (pub, tavern) per capa would have such a rule.

I always felt that the international challenge of champions with this rule was expectable because it is a winner takes all $50,000 purse, but then why do they give them those baggy sweaters to wear...!?

I just felt like typing something today that's all,
so happy Sunday all.

Nostroke
04-15-2007, 10:24 AM
Some of the recent decisions by the WPBA, for example that and tightening the pockets?? I dont know what they were thinking.

Their audience wouldnt know a tight pocket from a bucket, but they know what a miss is!

tjlmbklr
04-15-2007, 12:01 PM
Some of the recent decisions by the WPBA, for example that and tightening the pockets?? I dont know what they were thinking.

Their audience wouldnt know a tight pocket from a bucket, but they know what a miss is!


I get a kick out of some of the people in the audiance that clap and cheer when a ball is made when it was supposed to be a safety and now that player has no shot on the next numbered ball. This hapened when Ga-Young Kim was playing Xiaoting Pan, pay attention people! But with the driving force of all of WPBA getting a lot of international players, the pockets being tightented were to probably make it a little tougher.

Nostroke
04-15-2007, 12:19 PM
I get a kick out of some of the people in the audiance that clap and cheer when a ball is made when it was supposed to be a safety and now that player has no shot on the next numbered ball. This hapened when Ga-Young Kim was playing Xiaoting Pan, pay attention people! But with the driving force of all of WPBA getting a lot of international players, the pockets being tightented were to probably make it a little tougher.

Make it tougher so they will lose some of their current players?

GADawg
04-15-2007, 05:59 PM
Make it tougher so they will lose some of their current players?

Maybe. Or make it tougher to bring the cream to the top, no matter who it is, current player or new.

sjm
04-15-2007, 06:31 PM
A surprising development for sure, but you can be sure that players were surveyed on the matter. If this is what the ladies want, I'm all for it.

The last women's pro pool event I attended that used the "all ball fouls" rule was the 1993 US Open Straight Pool event, in which, if memory serves, Hsin Mei Liu captured the title.

Nostroke
04-15-2007, 06:47 PM
A surprising development for sure, but you can be sure that players were surveyed on the matter. If this is what the ladies want, I'm all for it.

The last women's pro pool event I attended that used the "all ball fouls" rule was the 1993 US Open Straight Pool event, in which, if memory serves, Hsin Mei Liu captured the title.


Ill ask some of the ladies again but I was told by one or two that they didnt know it was coming or who made the decision. Ill let you know.

sjm
04-15-2007, 07:09 PM
Ill ask some of the ladies again but I was told by one or two that they didnt know it was coming or who made the decision. Ill let you know.

I'm sure there are good reasons behind the decision. The WPBA tends to get it right in matters such as these. From a fan's point of view, I really could care less, and I feel quite sure the ladies will be able to make the adjustment.

Jude Rosenstock
04-15-2007, 07:20 PM
If you're a professional pool player, the all balls foul rule should be welcome. Moving object balls is characteristic of amateur pool and the cueball fouls only rule only protects this amateur play.

As for tightening up the pockets, that's probably in response to general criticism in the community. I'm sure if you did a search on this forum alone, you would find dozens of posts about how the pockets in WPBA events are huge. Personally, I've never played on a table that was used for WPBA televised matches so I cannot say how big the pockets are. However, if they're talking about shimming down pockets to 4", I would have to argue against that. There are already standards in the industry. Those standards should be adhered to.

GADawg
04-15-2007, 07:22 PM
Ill ask some of the ladies again but I was told by one or two that they didnt know it was coming or who made the decision. Ill let you know.

I think it's a good thing. Pros should be playing by the strictest rules.Not doing so is like professional golfers being able to roll the ball in the fairway or picking up putts "inside the leather."

Playing by stricter rules will increase the quality of play.

In China, even in a pool room, any C level players and above play all foul rules, even in unrefereed casual play. I was playing a guy the other night and he called a shirt foul on himself that I didn't even see.

If a pro player choses to wear loose clothing, they'll have to shoot with the bridge more. So what. Their choice. If they have long hair, they can pull it back or take a chance. Their choice.

sjm
04-15-2007, 07:32 PM
Personally, I've never played on a table that was used for WPBA televised matches so I cannot say how big the pockets are.

I have played on the tables use prior to the TV rounds, and they're pretty tough. I believe the WPBA began using tighter equipment at the beginning of the 2006 WPBA season. I got to hit a few balls at WPBA Peoria last summer. The day before I arrived, I was in Vegas for the IPT Las Vegas event. Rest assured, the pockets were tighter at WPBA Peoria than they were at IPT Las Vegas.

It's true in both men's pool and women's pool that the TV table will play just a little easier than whatever is used during the week because of the heat generated by all of the lighting. For the same reason, the TV table also plays longer than the norm, but the top players know how to make the adjustment.

vagabond
04-15-2007, 08:06 PM
Finally watched my DVR'ed episode of the Carolina classic (? one of those) and saw they made a rule of foul on all balls for 2007. What is your take on that? I loved when I finally played in a real league (meaning BCA) and I no longer had to worry about the drunken pool leagues where if you touched a ball it was a foul. I mean come on when you have a bar full of drinkers (remember I am from Brew city) it is hard to avoid at least not touching something. I like the rule that if you are to accidentally touch a ball you give the opponent the option to have it moved back or to keep it put; kind of a strategy of some sorts. Now I know that these are professionals and they are all about the game, but when you have ladies with long hair and some times baggy clothing (although I like the tight stuff on particular players) doesn't it seem ridiculous. I no longer play in bar leagues and I rarely drink during pool anymore but thought it was funny that the bar league I played for with the most non sanctioned made up rules I have ever seen in one of the highest bar (pub, tavern) per capa would have such a rule.

I always felt that the international challenge of champions with this rule was expectable because it is a winner takes all $50,000 purse, but then why do they give them those baggy sweaters to wear...!?

I just felt like typing something today that's all,
so happy Sunday all.


In British Commonwealth countries,NewZealand and Australia it is a foul even if the sleeve of the shirt touches any ball on the table.In USA traditionally it is not a foul but it will be considered as foul if the match is a televised match.

Jude Rosenstock
04-15-2007, 08:07 PM
I have played on the tables use prior to the TV rounds, and they're pretty tough. I believe the WPBA began using tighter equipment at the beginning of the 2006 WPBA season. I got to hit a few balls at WPBA Peoria last summer. The day before I arrived, I was in Vegas for the IPT Las Vegas event. Rest assured, the pockets were tighter at WPBA Peoria than they were at IPT Las Vegas.

It's true in both men's pool and women's pool that the TV table will play just a little easier than whatever is used during the week because of the heat generated by all of the lighting. For the same reason, the TV table also plays longer than the norm, but the top players know how to make the adjustment.


Well, this only leads to my argument that sometimes, it's diffcult to judge how a table plays based on what you see on television. People forget that the tables they play on every day have a little "give".

vagabond
04-15-2007, 08:19 PM
In the pool room I hang around there is one table (#16 formerly#22) that was used in WPBA`s US open tournament.except me and another guy no body would like to play on that table because they all think that is a very tough table to play.

sunnyday
04-15-2007, 09:20 PM
[QUOTE=Jude Rosenstock]If you're a professional pool player, the all balls foul rule should be welcome. Moving object balls is characteristic of amateur pool and the cueball fouls only rule only protects this amateur play.

I hope I don't get slammed for mentioning this, but there has been few incidents when balls were moved by large and large body parts...should I dare? to mention:rolleyes: I believe they were definitely unintentional and we just laugh it off. What else to do?

Knowing these same ladies play in pro events...I wonder how this new rule may effect their game:p

Jude Rosenstock
04-15-2007, 09:31 PM
[QUOTE=Jude Rosenstock]If you're a professional pool player, the all balls foul rule should be welcome. Moving object balls is characteristic of amateur pool and the cueball fouls only rule only protects this amateur play.

I hope I don't get slammed for mentioning this, but there has been few incidents when balls were moved by large and large body parts...should I dare? to mention:rolleyes: I believe they were definitely unintentional and we just laugh it off. What else to do?

Knowing these same ladies play in pro events...I wonder how this new rule may effect their game:p


I would say 99% of all moved balls are done so with one's cue and/or bridge-hand. Frequently, it occurs when an awkward bridge is necessary. Knowing that any contact would be a foul would obviously increase the difficulty of the shot.

I have yet to see a woman's breast get in the way and honestly, if I did, I would characterize that as amateur, too.

sunnyday
04-15-2007, 09:54 PM
This actually happened to me... this amateur lady stratched over a side pocket to shoot and when she got up from her shot, the 6 ball that was there before her shot was no longer on the table. We found it in the side pocket.

GADawg
04-15-2007, 09:55 PM
[QUOTE=sunnyday]


I would say 99% of all moved balls are done so with one's cue and/or bridge-hand. Frequently, it occurs when an awkward bridge is necessary. Knowing that any contact would be a foul would obviously increase the difficulty of the shot.

I have yet to see a woman's breast get in the way and honestly, if I did, I would characterize that as amateur, too.

Agreed. From my experience, beer bellies on men (and some women) are much more likely to be a problem.

Russ Chewning
04-15-2007, 09:58 PM
Here's how I look at it. Putting the cue ball into a position on the table that requires an awkward bridge is in itself amateurish. The men pros seem to be pretty good at leaving the cue ball in spots that require neither the bridge, nor bridging in a unnatural manner, i.e. playing position on the wrong side of a ball that is in the middle of the short rail.

Professional pool is about precision. it should be played all ball fouls, with TIGHT pockets.

As I said, I believe in tight pockets, all ball fouls, and no jumping, as well. Nothing wrong with jump sticks per se, I just feel the "beauty" of the game is preserved by keeping the cue ball as close to the table as possible. Allowing a player to jump with his/her playing cue is a happy medium. IMHO, allowing a stick that enables one to jump a ball an inch away takes away some of the precision of the game. Twould not break my heart to see jumping banned altogether. This would force players to learn to kick multiple rails.

Russ

ridewiththewind
04-15-2007, 10:29 PM
The all balls foul rule would not bother me one bit. I try to be very conscious of where any balls may be on the table with regards to my stance. I also try not to wear too loose a piece of clothing. If, I feel that there might be a danger of my clothing coming into contact with a ball...I will step back, and tuck it into the front of my pants...I wouldn't care if it looked goofy or not....if it avoided me fouling a ball.

As to tighter pockets, this does not bother me either. Fortunately, my table here at home has fairly narrow pockets. It forces one to become more accurate with one's shots, disallowing sloppy rolls into the pocket. At a pro level of play, those shots should be dead nutz perfect to the pocket...or perhaps one should not be at that level of play.

And for the record....I do not think jump shots should be allowed at the pro level either...it's just the way I feel about it...I too feel there should be more multiple rail play.

Lisa

cardiac kid
04-16-2007, 06:05 AM
Hi Folks,

For the past two years, Mike Zuglan has been using the "all ball foul" rule at the Turning Stone Classic events. Recently, he added it to every stop on the Joss Tour. I'm not sure of the "drunken bar player" (mis) use. I grew up playing cue ball only fouls. Playing all ball fouls doesn't change anything in the game except keeping players honest!

Recently I was playing a local event final when my opponent fired a difficult shot end to end. The ball pocketed but he moved three balls with his fore-arm from their position further up table. One dropped in a pocket! He turned to the event director and asked how he should replace the balls. I called a foul. He looked incredulous. The director quoted the "cue ball only" crap and allowed him to run the table and win. My opponent knew it was a foul. He changed the lay of the entire table. Each of you probably has a similar story. Foul on all balls solves it. Bridging over a ball and moving it with the stroke ends. Jumping over a ball and moving a ball with your cue ends. No more arguments over whether the cue ball hit it or the cue.

Regarding the tight pocket issue. The tables used in past years for UPA/WPBA combined player events (Vegas and Mohegan Sun events come to mind) were so easy. It was necessary to placate the "lesser" Women Pro's. I know Karen, Allison, Ga, Jeanette and a few others can play on correctly executed small pockets. Its the rest of the field. Who wanted to watch players miss constantly? With the new "Asian" invasion, there are players capable of playing on the most difficult conditions available. Thats what I want to watch! Thats the condition I want to play on! If you only give players a difficult condition, they will do what's necessary to learn how to win.

There is a billiard game dying in this country. Three cushion is truely a "Gentleman's" game. The jump shot helped destroy that game. Why learn a discipline when you can grab a "shorty" and jump over a ball? Ending the jump shot will not only save three cushion but the cloth the game is played on. Imagine our young people learning the basics of the diamond system. Watching the faces of the young people in our room when someone is playing on the billiard table is fascinating. They ask questions. They watch. Then the ask why we waste our time! I might be the only player in the room without a jump/break cue. Even some of the beginners whip out their jump/break and jump balls. They think its fun. The only people against a ban are some of the cue manufacturers. A whole profit center gone. Perhaps with a jump shot ban, they will spend their "research" dollars designing shafts for billiard games! Incidently, the Joss Tour bans jump cues. You can jump with your full playing cue. Doesn't happen much!

Lyn