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Dan White
05-03-2007, 03:27 PM
Here's a situation that, to me, is trickier than it looks.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4BDvA3CETt4DGSL4ENrg3FNEQ3GAdf3HQes3ILPI3Jabj4KD nP4LBCu3MEMO3NSrL3OGHd2PKqo3eabj3ebjv2kKqo3kaSQ@

The situation is that you've broken the balls and one way or another you lose the cue ball and this is what you are left with to get started. Please assume that the 10 is your best and only shot, and that the 9 and 4 go in the bottom corner. This post is NOT about how you would run the balls.

The post is about how you prefer to shoot the 10 ball and what your objective is. For instance, do you soft roll it down so the cue ball moves only a little after contact? Do you hit a drag-draw to achieve the same effect? In the first case you risk table roll-off, and in the second you risk masse when the draw rubs off if you didn't hit the cue ball directly in center draw. Also, speed control can be tricky. Or, do you hit it firm with draw to try and get back uptable for the 5? There are some other things you could try, but I'm interested to see how others would shoot this 10, and what you would be trying to do with the shot.

To me, the best option is the drag-draw. I find that what I call "specialty" situations like this 10 ball can end a run for me if cue ball position isn't precise.

Thanks,
dwhite

Endymion
05-03-2007, 04:34 PM
I would shoot the 10 ball as a firm stop shot. CB should go to the rail and bounce off a couple of inches, then you figure out how to proceed from there. I definitely fear the slow shot as table rolloff can just randomly kill your run, and I think the drag draw shot is unnecessary (and risky) as a solid stop shot will get you 90% of the position you need. My $0.02.

Hal2
05-03-2007, 05:08 PM
Dan,
I would shoot the 10 ball with firm low-left english to place the cue ball a little lower on the table and as close to the side rail as possible. Then I would shoot the 3 ball in the bottom side pocket to break the rack.

Hal

Dan White
05-03-2007, 06:16 PM
I would shoot the 10 ball as a firm stop shot. CB should go to the rail and bounce off a couple of inches, then you figure out how to proceed from there. I definitely fear the slow shot as table rolloff can just randomly kill your run, and I think the drag draw shot is unnecessary (and risky) as a solid stop shot will get you 90% of the position you need. My $0.02.

You might be right about that as I've diagrammed it. Maybe this is a problem with using the Cuetable. I didn't imagine a firm stop shot will leave the cue ball just a few inches from the side rail when I diagrammed it. Put it this way, if the 10 were a straight in shot, I'd hit a stop shot and be done with it (no problem). Hitting a firm stop shot at an angle near the rail, though, can be risky. With such a long hard stop shot, if you have a little follow or draw on the cue ball, you might end up somewhere you didn't expect.


thanks,
dwhite

Dan White
05-03-2007, 06:23 PM
Dan,
I would shoot the 10 ball with firm low-left english to place the cue ball a little lower on the table and as close to the side rail as possible. Then I would shoot the 3 ball in the bottom side pocket to break the rack.

Hal

Hal - low left? Are you saying that you would stun into the 10, drift into the side rail, and use the left to bring you down a bit for an angle on the 3? Sounds very difficult to me. Are you using the draw and left to fight against each other and kill the cue ball on the rail, or was it just a typo? :)

I could see maybe rolling down with medium soft speed and right english to get on the 3, but I'd be worried about swerve in such a shot. Maybe you have a shot (or two) I don't know?

thanks,
dwhite

Gerry
05-04-2007, 04:28 AM
I shoot it rail first trying to bump the 8 full in the face with the 4 and 15 as insurance if it goes bad. the shot on the 10 lies flat making you pound most any shot to move the CB which lowers the make %. I play a lot of 1 pocket and a shot like this is a standard because you can create all kinds of new angles/positions going rail first AND hit the shot at pocket speed.

Gerry

subdude1974
05-04-2007, 05:57 AM
I would shoot the 10 with srtaight draw. With the angle given you dont need to worry about being left on the rail. Try to give yourself an inside angle on the 15 in the side as to where the CB would impact the 3. Hit that shot firm and try to move 3 into 11 2 to create an opening for the out. Trying to leave yourself on the 3 is such a difficult leave that even if you are off by a hair, you could be screwed on position for any other ball. Shooting the 15(even though it is ideal for break shot on next rack) is your best option. Even if you get stright on it you can draw back for the 4 or follow for the 5 which can give you oppurtunities to nudge the other balls in the triangle apart to give you more options. And I would not recommend rail first on this shot unless you know you are going to make it. Penalty in this game, as in 1 pocket is too severe for a miss. You miss that shot, 200 balls later you might get back to the table. Straight draw is the best option.

Neil
05-04-2007, 07:02 AM
................

lfigueroa
05-04-2007, 02:22 PM
If I'm comfortable with the equipment, I'll slow roll it for the 15 in the side. If I'm not sure about the equipment, I'd do the draw draw.

Lou Figueroa

Dan White
05-04-2007, 05:53 PM
Thanks for the comments. Thinking more about it, it seems a lot depends on how much angle is there. With a shallow angle, you can pop it and keep control of the cue ball. With a larger angle, you can completely lose control doing that. I think in the end I would opt for the softer hit since I seem to get into trouble the other way.

dwhite

mjantti
05-05-2007, 11:39 AM
In straight pool you always want to play shots in a way that the success percentage is as high as possible. If I assume I'm in dead stroke, it doesn't matter how I shoot this, I'm just going to make it and leave the cueball exactly where I want to. But most of the time I'm not in dead stroke and then this becomes a question of equipment. With a new cloth and forgiving pockets I tend to shoot this a little bit slower and like to use the drag-draw shot. If the pockets are tighter and the cloth is older, I like to hit this a little bit firmer as controlling the cueball is not as easy as with new cloth.

If the 10-ball is the only shot and you can't have a good position from that side of the table (omit a few balls), I might even play this cushion first assuming the pockets are forgiving.

wildhair
05-06-2007, 02:48 PM
Here's a situation that, to me, is trickier than it looks.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4BDvA3CETt4DGSL4ENrg3FNEQ3GAdf3HQes3ILPI3Jabj4KD nP4LBCu3MEMO3NSrL3OGHd2PKqo3eabj3ebjv2kKqo3kaSQ@

The situation is that you've broken the balls and one way or another you lose the cue ball and this is what you are left with to get started. Please assume that the 10 is your best and only shot, and that the 9 and 4 go in the bottom corner. This post is NOT about how you would run the balls.

The post is about how you prefer to shoot the 10 ball and what your objective is. For instance, do you soft roll it down so the cue ball moves only a little after contact? Do you hit a drag-draw to achieve the same effect? In the first case you risk table roll-off, and in the second you risk masse when the draw rubs off if you didn't hit the cue ball directly in center draw. Also, speed control can be tricky. Or, do you hit it firm with draw to try and get back uptable for the 5? There are some other things you could try, but I'm interested to see how others would shoot this 10, and what you would be trying to do with the shot.

To me, the best option is the drag-draw. I find that what I call "specialty" situations like this 10 ball can end a run for me if cue ball position isn't precise.

Thanks,
dwhite

Here are some thoughts I would look at before shooting the 10,

Is there a break ball now… the 15 is the only one I see I would like. Any risk of shooting a shot after the 10 (3 ball perhaps) would risk moving the 15 out of play, I would avoid.

Which balls goes in which pocket naturally (15 same as 10. 4+5 left corner, 3, 15 left side)

The balance of the rack is tied up. So I would shoot the 10 with a speed and perhaps english where I would move (run into) the three balls 14,8,6.. and hope for the best. If I missed I’d still have the 4 ball (most likely).

BUT… I make things worse sometime by doing this type of thing. :mad:
WH

aeoliner
05-06-2007, 02:55 PM
i would go for the 5 and draw back into the rail to get the 9 in the same pocket with follow to break up the cluster in the rack area

8corneronbreak
05-06-2007, 04:32 PM
here's an idea. hit the rail first with a bit of top and you should be able to break up the 14-8 so that you can go back and forth with those and the 9 and 4. continue on the 5 and then work around the table. that's just my idea.

aeoliner
05-06-2007, 05:13 PM
but what is the order of the balls that you r pocketing











ROOSTER!

8corneronbreak
05-06-2007, 05:28 PM
depends on how far the cue ball goes after deflecting the 10 in the corner. a good enough 14.1 player can just work around the table going in the same corner as the 10 and the opposite side and still set themselves up nicely until the balls are racked again.

Jimmy M.
05-06-2007, 05:31 PM
I probably wouldn't even consider the drag-draw shot. It's a nice shot to know for certain situations but I don't think this is one of them. Unless I KNEW that the table rolled off, I'd definitely roll the ball before attempting a drag-draw shot from that distance. All of the premium is on making the ball and shooting that shot isn't the most accurate way (or even "one of the most" accurate ways) to hit it.

Mike_Mason
06-03-2007, 01:53 PM
Dan

You've given us 3 options to choose from...and one of them is to play the 10 with position for the 5...

So you give us 2 options to keep position for the 4 or 9..."slow roll" the cue ball or "drag draw" the cue ball...

Imo you should never...did I say never??...well maybe not never but I can't think of when I would ever "slow roll" a cue ball 7 or 8 feet or more...man that table better be perfect...with no dust on it...never mind...I just wouldn't do it...ever...

I think what you call "drag draw" I've heard by other names...such as "delayed draw"..."dead draw"...maybe other names I just can't recall right now...but it sounds like what I'm thinking.

Hit the cue ball low with a firm stroke...but only firm enough that by the time the cue ball arrives at the 10...the backwards spin has just begun its forward spin...and slides the 10 into the corner pocket nice and easy...and the cue ball stays where it belongs...with a shot on the 4 or 9...

This shot is not only my choice in this situation...but an essential weapon to have at your disposal if want to be a complete player...we would all be wise to perfect it...

Mike