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Caromsoft
05-09-2007, 10:33 AM
Hi all.

I just finished my scoring program for 14.1 Continuous. Feel free to try it out. I am calling it CueScore.

http://66.116.70.58/CueScore/

CueScore is a runtime Filemaker Pro database program. It does not need Filemaker Pro to run.

It should run under any version of Windows XP. I have not tested it with Windows Vista, 2000, ME, or 98.

All of the files are in a compressed folder called CueScore.zip. To install the program simply extract the
zip file to the location of your choice. Within the uncompressed CueScore folder is the program file CueScore.exe.
Simply double click this file like any Windows program.

The first time CueScore runs it will ask you for a user name. Simply click OK to whatever is there or put in your own name,
it doesn't matter.

Instructions are located under the Help Menu to get you started. Hopefully I designed it to be easy to use.

Enjoy! :)

Tom

JoeW
05-09-2007, 11:55 AM
Nice program Tom easy to use and instructions are clear. It took about 5 minutes to download through Comcast.net. Installed on Windows Vista and there do not seem to any problems. Couple of suggestions intended to be helpful:

1. Many people do not have the computer in their pool room so off line subroutine would be useful for keeping practice history. A new subroutine should be matched to the off-line data collection sheet for ease of entry. In a pool Hall, data can be entered later by the counter man or whomever following league play.

2. BPI stats (excluding 1 shot safeties) could be included as a routine for current game, and history

3. Default statistical calculations should be specified in the help manual, especially formulas, how moving averages are calculated, etc.

4. A configurable statistical subroutine based on the available variables and configured and/ or reconfigured by the user should be available.

5. Ask user after a match if they want to store the data. I can see where the software could be used for a few matches and then discarded on a Sat night. -- Using X vs Y player names would not store data.

6. Data base needs to hold X users for commercial use.

7. If I were writing this I would allow for the inclusion of five additional variables of the users choice. These variables would also be available for statistical analysis.

8. Date and time of the match would be recorded and available.

9. Complete data base would be available for exporting to Excel or similar (I suspect this is done but it needs to be specified. With Column headers etc.)

10. I like the idea of allowing for other games this would make for a comprehensive data base of all leagues in a pool hall and might sell for a few hundred dollars.

11. I would also allow for end of league print outs for each player in a league to see his personal stats.

Caromsoft
05-10-2007, 12:41 AM
Nice program Tom easy to use and instructions are clear. It took about 5 minutes to download through Comcast.net. Installed on Windows Vista and there do not seem to any problems. Couple of suggestions intended to be helpful:

1. Many people do not have the computer in their pool room so off line subroutine would be useful for keeping practice history. A new subroutine should be matched to the off-line data collection sheet for ease of entry. In a pool Hall, data can be entered later by the counter man or whomever following league play.

2. BPI stats (excluding 1 shot safeties) could be included as a routine for current game, and history

3. Default statistical calculations should be specified in the help manual, especially formulas, how moving averages are calculated, etc.

4. A configurable statistical subroutine based on the available variables and configured and/ or reconfigured by the user should be available.

5. Ask user after a match if they want to store the data. I can see where the software could be used for a few matches and then discarded on a Sat night. -- Using X vs Y player names would not store data.

6. Data base needs to hold X users for commercial use.

7. If I were writing this I would allow for the inclusion of five additional variables of the users choice. These variables would also be available for statistical analysis.

8. Date and time of the match would be recorded and available.

9. Complete data base would be available for exporting to Excel or similar (I suspect this is done but it needs to be specified. With Column headers etc.)

10. I like the idea of allowing for other games this would make for a comprehensive data base of all leagues in a pool hall and might sell for a few hundred dollars.

11. I would also allow for end of league print outs for each player in a league to see his personal stats.
Thanks for the comments Joe. :) Nice to know it runs OK on Vista.

I will probably be adding more games to the program, including 8-ball, 9-ball, 10-ball and One Pocket. I decided to try and write the program after seeing the thread on your daughter's portable counters! I don't play Straight Pool yet, but thought of all the games this one must be the hardest to score, so the most interesting to try and write. I know that most people aren't going to have computers in their pool room, but for those that do, this could be a handy tool.

It looks like some of your suggestions are geared toward a commercial version, and that is something I have considered. Obviously in a league or tournament setting it would be impracticable to score using the program in real time as it is designed now. I'll have to start working on something.

Your ideas are all good ones, and I have some questions/comments about them if you don't mind.

#1 A scoring sheet would be the only way to go for a lot of different players, I agree.

#2 This should be easy to implement.

#3 I hadn't thought of Moving Averages, that is a good idea.

#4 I'm not sure what you mean here.

#5 The program stores all of the matches automatically. but they are easily deleted individually if desired.

#6 Not clear on what you mean here. A commercial version would be able to hold a virtually unlimited number of players.

#7 Do you mean that the user would have the ability to customize the reports to include only variables they are interested in? Not a bad idea.

#8 Easily added.

#9 Easily added.

#10 As I said above I would like to add other games, as well as tournament and league functionality.

#11 Easily added.

Again, thanks for the feedback.

Tom

Deadon
05-10-2007, 02:03 AM
Is it compatable with windows based PDAs?

Caromsoft
05-10-2007, 08:42 AM
Is it compatable with windows based PDAs?It doesn't look like it. I spent some time over at Filemaker's site and they have a product called Filemaker Mobile for PDA's. Nothing mentioned about using the runtime app on a PDA.

JoeW
05-10-2007, 04:18 PM
Tom re point 4.

Lets say the user wants to include age of player so he can later select players under 18 years old and print a ranking. Currently there is no way to select for age. However, if you had a routine that allowed the user to identify a variable to be used in his league such as:

Variable Name: Age
Variable Description: Age of player
Var type (integer, real, alpha)

Store and have the software modify itself to collect this info in a window on the main data collection screen.

In the statistical section the manual might indicate:
BPI = Num balls made per inning excluding inning where no balls were made and a safe was played / total number of non safe inning. (This equation could explained better but you get the idea.

Later the user might want to modify the calculation by an inherent variable or by a user entered variable. It seems to me that some leagues have proprietary ways in which they calculate handicaps and they may or not make their equations public.

The suggestion here basically allows the user to use up to five additional variables in most anyway they want. I would allow for multiplicative functions and constants to accept regression based formulas.

I know if I were to create a handicapping system it would be regression based and think that others would do the same. So what I am suggesting is that you allow the user to select the variables to be used and the method for entering as an equation. The law of diminishing returns takes effect after three or four variables in a regression equation so five plus your inherent variables should be more than sufficient


I have written commercial software in the past and would suggest a defined user base, say 50 players for X dollars, 100 players for XXX dollars. It would be best to check the market first. It would also be a good idea to get an estimate from league operators with regard to the variables they are currently using or would like to use. These should be inherent.

Hall owners would be the most likely market as commercial leagues have their own software. Halls may have experience with some commercial products and have ideas about what they would like in their own system based on prior experience with other packages / leagues, etc.

It would also be a good idea to get a look at what others have done for some of the large leagues. This "other" software is probably fairly mature and they will have some functions in place that trap prior problems that you haven't thought about. Usually you can figure these out from screen presentations and then write your own.

If you get something together and would like to discuss other aspects PM me. I am retired now and more than happy to share what I know. A verticle market like this can be profitable.

BTW, once the software is out there you can provide a service that easily customizes the software based on users specs. This is another source of income.

Another thought for consideration. If your software is really good you will find that commercial leagues may be interested in your software if it can be easily configured for their approach. Now we are talking major bucks. It is not all that difficult to do with a flexible package.

Why would they want to do this? Well most of these people have to contract out for their software and the cost is high. A flexible package that is updated for minimal fees (relative to a software house) is appealing. I did something like this so I know it works, takes time and dedication thats all.

JoeW
05-10-2007, 04:43 PM
The software should generate a standard off line data collection sheet that can be photcopied by the user. It should also have a doc format so the user can modify and print as needed.

Caromsoft
05-10-2007, 05:25 PM
Hi Joe.

Thanks for the clarifications, it is helpful.

I have experience with customizing software for specific needs. I currently have a client that runs his entire steel company on software I designed for them, including inventory control, payables and receivables, and document generation. They are constantly being told how impressive their operation is by their clients.

One of the things I like about Filemaker is that is extremely flexible. I can get a call from my client about some new feature they would like, and can generally have a solution integrated into their program within hours, most of the time by remote access...while they are still using the program. They LOVE that! :)

One of the things I don't know is how leagues and tournaments are structured. When I did the steel company I basically had to learn their business inside out. That part will take some research on my part. I may take you up on the offer of help in the future.

Tom

P.S. My girlfriend with the Ph.D. wants to know if you are a statistician. :)

JoeW
05-10-2007, 06:21 PM
My docrorate is in multivariate personality research (psychology). I taught grad stat and grad multivariate stat along with program planning. My first love is diagnostic software for use in psychology and medicine.

Relative to your girlfriend, I am an applied statistician -- nothing more. She makes things, I used them. My doctoral thesis (1975) used inverse factor analysis of euclidian distance measures to construct a typology of people. She will know what that is.

claymont
05-11-2007, 03:44 AM
Works in 2000. The Program doesn't understand the three consecutive foul rule...extra minus fifteen points off score. I don't think it should count past fourteen per rack, or at least a warning that you're doing so.


Also it stops the Rack count at ten sometimes, (a question mark in rack window). The only way to get the normal count back is to Exit and Restart.

The Browse button/tab doesn't seem to work.

The Window Resizing Buttons aren't too intuitive in their use.

When I toggle the Side Window, the Buttons at the top are greyed out/not active

Caromsoft
05-11-2007, 11:45 AM
Works in 2000. The Program doesn't understand the three consecutive foul rule...extra minus fifteen points off score. I don't think it should count past fourteen per rack, or at least a warning that you're doing so.


Also it stops the Rack count at ten sometimes, (a question mark in rack window). The only way to get the normal count back is to Exit and Restart.

The Browse button/tab doesn't seem to work.

The Window Resizing Buttons aren't too intuitive in their use.

When I toggle the Side Window, the Buttons at the top are greyed out/not active

Thanks for the feedback, nice to know it works in 2000.

I didn't know about the penalty for 3 fouls (just learning straight pool) I can add that in.

Good idea about the warning for going above 14 points per rack. There is also a problem I have identified if a player misses the first shot of their inning, not that any of us would ever encounter that problem :) A player missing on the first shot would not have that inning scored, throwing off the BPI. I did include BPI by the way, I just called it Average Run. It will be labeled BPI in the future.

I might know why it is stopping at 10. A question mark in a field indicates the data is too wide to be seen. I use a font called Verdana, which I only remember seeing first in XP. Check to see if 2000 has that font. If not the program is substituting something else which is wider than the window can show once the rack score reaches double digits. I can widen the window a bit.

I wanted to keep the program simple, so I hide the Status Area (the side area) I am adding some controls to allow moving between records, and I will ungrey some in the Status Area for the power users.

The Windows resizing is a problem that I haven't found a workable solution to yet. The way I want the program to open and run and the way Filemaker wants it to are two different things.

Tom

tommy84
05-13-2007, 11:25 AM
Rules (at least here in Germany) were changed for this season.
3 consecutive fouls is now -18 instead of -17 as it was before

Caromsoft
05-13-2007, 12:56 PM
Rules (at least here in Germany) were changed for this season.
3 consecutive fouls is now -18 instead of -17 as it was before
Are the 3 fouls part of the -18? 3 fouls -1 each & -15 penalty? I have added in a Users Options section, I will add a user configurable 3 foul penalty, so that it won't matter. Each foul will count as -1, and on the 3rd it will be -1 & the user entered penalty. That should address any differences or changes in the rules.

So far the User Options section contains a setting to calculate BPI with safeties or without, and a Moving Average setting with the user choosing how many games to use for the average.

Tom

Caromsoft
05-13-2007, 01:10 PM
Just a note to say that the version linked to in the first post doesn't have any of the current changes. I am working on getting a new version up soon.

Tom

tommy84
05-17-2007, 03:20 PM
Yes, the previous fouls are part of -18

In the past the -15 penalty was directly "awarded" on the 3rd foul, now you get a -1 for the third foul PLUS the -15 penalty

Caromsoft
05-17-2007, 07:12 PM
Yes, the previous fouls are part of -18

In the past the -15 penalty was directly "awarded" on the 3rd foul, now you get a -1 for the third foul PLUS the -15 penaltyI have added in a user modifiable penalty to account for any differences. I also have added a printable scoresheet, and a way to add the scores into the program if using the scoresheet.

I am working on a web site to host the program. Once everything is in place I will have the updated version available for download.

Tom

asmith74
06-10-2007, 07:21 AM
Your link is dead, please repost. Congrats on your application and I can't wait to give it a try. :D

Andy

Caromsoft
06-10-2007, 11:28 AM
Your link is dead, please repost. Congrats on your application and I can't wait to give it a try. :D

Andy
I'm not sure why the link is dead, but at this point it isn't important. The version posted there is not current. I have been working hard on getting the latest version ready for release. The new version has some very nice enhancements, I think people will like it.

I have set up a new web site to host the program, and once that is ready I will have it available for download...should only be a couple of days now! :)

Thanks for the interest!

Caromsoft
06-15-2007, 02:15 AM
Hi All.

Well it has taken me a while, but I have the latest version of the 14.1 scoring program available. You might notice that my user name has been changed to reflect my new company, Caromsoft. I decided that if I was doing more programming I should have a cool name to hang my hat on, and while most people won't know where the name comes from, to a fellow billiards player it will be like a secret handshake. :)

The new version is called the Caromsoft Billiards Scoring System - Personal Edition, or Caromsoft BSS Personal. I have added quite a few enhancements and suggestions from you guys on what it should do. So far the 14.1 module is the only one completed, but there is a screen for 8-Ball to check out. It doesn't do much but gives you an idea where I'm heading with that.

The Caromsoft Billiards Scoring System is available for download at:

www.caromsoft.com

Look under "Products". The setup file is around 13MB. It installs just like any program, and comes with an uninstall as well. Like the previous version it will ask you for a user name the first time, and the first time only. Just click OK to whatever it has there.

If you have any data in the previous version let me know, there is a way to bring it in to the new version.

I welcome any comments or suggestions. Enjoy!

Tom