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View Full Version : Jump cue debate: discussion


Scottster
05-09-2007, 11:51 AM
There has been alot of discussion about the use of jump cues during matches, both pro and con.

What do y'all think about this little adendum to the rules. "After the Break, any player that begins an inning at the table must finish the inning using the same cue at the same length the inning started with."

Not only would this cover jump cues, it would also include "Cue extenders".

This rule would allow the incoming player to use his jump cue or extender at the start of the inning to try an escape a safe, at a price.

It also eliminates the player to bail himself out of poor cue ball control scenarios.

What say you AZ gallery ;)

BVal
05-09-2007, 12:02 PM
I say no :) for no other reason than I just think it is a bad idea. No offense.

BVal

rackem
05-09-2007, 12:27 PM
Your saying if the guy jumps and makes the ball, he has to continue playing with the jump cue?:confused: I don't think that will fly.

SpiderWebComm
05-09-2007, 01:17 PM
Just my opinion>>>>No flaming please>>>>

I think jump cues should be banned completely. Not saying you shouldn't be allowed to jump-- I just think you should have to jump with the cue you play with. That would eliminate these 1mm / 1" jump shots you're seeing today (with people getting out from there).

I think those close-range jump shots are gimmicky. I mentioned in another thread that jump cues are like "Alien Sand Wedges" in golf (the clubs with slots cut through the face to allow sand to travel THROUGH the club face - assuring the golfer gets out of the sand).

The USGA made those clubs illegal because it allowed anyone to get out of the bunker easily, with little skill. Jump cues are the same thing, I think. Jump cues do for jumping what the Alien Sand Wedge did for golf. If you can't "blast" over an object ball on your own, with your own cue, with your own ability, it shouldn't be allowed.

I'm 100% for jump shots... just without "special" equipment to do it. The funny thing is A LOT of the people who use jump cues prob could never jump without the help of phenolic (which is a shame, because there is a certain method to jump with regular equipment - it just takes excellent form, speed and timing).

Phenolic has changed a lot of things - and I'm not sure if helps the integrity of how the sport should be played... which is prob why the IPT made phenolic break cues illegal (hate to bring THEM up as an example, but it helps ANYONE throw a hard knuckle-ball to the rack).

I'm interesting in hearing the "pros" of the jump cues (also phenolic). I'm so confused why they're allowed, I'm really interested in hearing other's opinions. I might hear something I haven't considered before. Your thoughts?:)

steev
05-09-2007, 01:20 PM
just outlaw jump cues and/or phenolic tips. make folks learn a good stroke instead. i don't see this happening anytime soon, but i'd like it.

as for extenders, how are they different from using a mechanical bridge, really? i have no problem with these (though i don't own one).

-s

edit: you beat be to it, spider, and in much more detail. and i can't rep you for it cause you've earned some recently :D

Black Cat 5791
05-09-2007, 03:19 PM
Wow I just got through with another rant, now this one. I happen to be Pro Jump Cue / Pro Jump with your regular cue if your able. If your going to Ban a Jump Cue just Ban jumping all together. In the APA jumping is allowed but Jump Cues are not, as a result there is little to no jumping at all because people aren't able to jump with the regular with any regularity or consistantly.

The reason that jump cues are not allowed is because the league feels that is wolud allow an advantage to people who do not own a jump cue much less how to use it. It just levels the playing field.

However once you get to Tournament level play your not playing with your average Joe anyway so why not allow any advantage to the players that are able to take advantage of the technology available. And, besides that a 1mm jump is not automatic just because you have a cue that would allow it to be a possibility.

Even though I have a Bungee Jump Cue I do more kicking to get at balls than I do jumping the ratio isn't even close.

As for pheonic tips are concerned I also couldn't careless, I have a monster break without my BK2, I broke just as well with my original BK it's just now I can tone it done a bit.

It's just my opinion but I say let things be as they are, jump shots just add another element to the game.

Black Cat :cool:

CreeDo
05-09-2007, 03:38 PM
I'm surprised to hear about banning certain equipment too. TV players have spoiled us into thinking jumping and making a shot is an everyday thing. I find it's pretty rare to jump and obviously rarer to make it, so why make a special rule about equipment that applies to maybe 1 out of 100 shots?

I don't buy that just because something is harder or takes more skill, it's automatically better. That debate comes up in a lot of stuff, from furniture making to video games.

Even if the right cue makes someone more likely to succeed at their jump, the winner will be the better player who controls the cue ball and runs out, not the better jumper. A guy who weasels out of a few safeties still needs to be a superior player to A: execute without a foul B: sink the ball and C: Run out from there, despite having limited position-playing options on a jump shot.

It kinda feels like sour grapes that people are saying "these crazy cues let this no-skill fish get out of all my safeties and rob me!" ...somehow I don't think these players would be any happier if the same fish did the same jumps with a traditional cue, even if it would take a miracle of skill.

Maybe the problem is that people don't want to get into an 'arms race' with cue sticks and be forced to spend money on a miracle-producing jump stick just to be able to keep up with the Joneses?

supergreenman
05-09-2007, 03:49 PM
I'm so tired of the jump cue debate. Been there, done that... fact is they're legal. It's part of the game, has been for years now, deal with it.

btw, I jump with my full cue most of the time.

Black Cat 5791
05-09-2007, 03:55 PM
I'm surprised to hear about banning certain equipment too. TV players have spoiled us into thinking jumping and making a shot is an everyday thing. I find it's pretty rare to jump and obviously rarer to make it, so why make a special rule about equipment that applies to maybe 1 out of 100 shots?

I don't buy that just because something is harder or takes more skill, it's automatically better. That debate comes up in a lot of stuff, from furniture making to video games.

Even if the right cue makes someone more likely to succeed at their jump, the winner will be the better player who controls the cue ball and runs out, not the better jumper. A guy who weasels out of a few safeties still needs to be a superior player to A: execute without a foul B: sink the ball and C: Run out from there, despite having limited position-playing options on a jump shot.

It kinda feels like sour grapes that people are saying "these crazy cues let this no-skill fish get out of all my safeties and rob me!" ...somehow I don't think these players would be any happier if the same fish did the same jumps with a traditional cue, even if it would take a miracle of skill.

Maybe the problem is that people don't want to get into an 'arms race' with cue sticks and be forced to spend money on a miracle-producing jump stick just to be able to keep up with the Joneses?

TAP! TAP! TAP!

RRfireblade
05-09-2007, 07:30 PM
This is kinda interesting as I was just talking with someone about jump cues.

We just got thru a long set of which I think I jumped more balls than I ever remember even considering trying but the first couple went well so it seemed like a good option later on.

So he asks why I never use my J/B for jumping and honestly , I never really thought about it. I break with it and then it gets parked. Once I have my player in my hands , I'm dialed in and that's it.

I was actually quite curious how many people really jump with thier J/Bs anyway ? If I can't pull it off with my player , it's gotta be to risky to go to an extreme cue for an edge.

Maybe just for a practice set . . . maybe. Just my feeling.

Anyway . . .

Ban J/Bs ? Eh , that never really solves anything. The people that really need every possible little edge from a piece of equiptment usually are not the ones you have to worry in the end. :)

Southpaw
05-09-2007, 07:44 PM
So that means not being able to use a bridge too???? I agree anyone can learn to jump in 30 mins, but it takes years to learn how to kick well...but then again, they are allowed in the rules so what do ya do?

Southpaw

Killer Miller
05-09-2007, 08:21 PM
Lets see: Cue Tips
Chalk
Bridge
Gloves
Composite material

These are all things that have been reinvented time and time again over many years. How many variations of each of these items can you count? Who wants to? The jump cue is just another evolution of the game. Nobody likes to conform or any form of change but it is here wether you like it or not. I personally didn't like defensive shots for a long time but I conformed to it like everyone else. I get the same satisfaction jumping and making the ball as I do locking someone down to another ball.
The ones that are jumping actually enjoy it, it is a challenge and a crowd pleaser. It's like defense you can start jumping or be beaten by the jump!

www.youtube.com/killermiller777

CreeDo
05-09-2007, 09:56 PM
Damn, sign me up. Did rossman do a DVD about kicking?

Also, is it possible to do those within-1-ball width jump shots with a regular cue? I only ask cuz I'm broke and can't get a jump cue at the moment, not because I'm a purist :P How much harder is it, if it's doable?

Jude Rosenstock
05-09-2007, 10:00 PM
My list of reasons I hate jump-cues:

1. I hate it when I perform a rather difficult maneuver to leave the cue-ball safe only to watch my opponent pull out his jump-cue and leap over the ball.

2. I hate it even more when he's safed himself and he manages to continue his run by use of his jump-cue.

3. I hate it when a beginninerish player decides to purchase a jump-cue then spend hours at the poolroom flying the cue-ball off the table in his quest to perfect jumping, ESPECIALLY if I'm at the next table.

4. I hate what the cloth looks like when anyone is done practicing their jump-shots.

5. I hate the fact that advanced kicking has become a less important aspect of 9-ball as a result of jump-cues.

6. I hate how jump-cues look rubberbanded to the outside of some googan's case.

7. Lastly, I HATE the fact that I must also own a jump-cue because I refuse to to be a martyr.


Seriously, especially in today's day and age, we have incredible access to technology and there is no doubt that technology will yield tools that are better equipped for a given task. Look no further than baseball's aluminum bats for reference. However, just because technology can produce something better doesn't mean we should use it. Part of what makes up the game of pool is the fact that we are restricted to the equipment of the game. Now, all games evolve and there is no doubt that pool has also evolved but we must be careful what we allow to be a part of that evolution. Such devices as spliced shafts and perfectly round plastic balls are, in my opinion, within the spirit of the rules. Using multiple cues during a game is not.

JLW
05-09-2007, 10:36 PM
I say ban the jump cue. Jumping is fine, just do it with your playing cue.

CreeDo
05-09-2007, 10:39 PM
Jude, the bit you said about baseball bats made me think of corked bats, which are maybe a good example of "just because we CAN doesn't mean we SHOULD". Corking a bat allows for a lighter swing and possibly more home runs.

Then again, maybe baseball's ban on corked bats is just as unreasonable as a ban on certain kinds of jump cues, maybe players SHOULD be able to hit a ball with whatever they want, and may the best slugger win. It's only unfair if a handful of guys have corked bats and the rest of the world doesn't, maybe that's what's happening with these special jump and break cues. When these cues are as common as leather tips, will we look back and laugh that there was any debate? Or is the spirit of the game kinda ruined by jumping in general since it takes a 2D game and puts it into 3D, which probably was never intended?

Snapshot9
05-10-2007, 02:15 AM
It does not take years to learn to kick well. It takes a few minutes to learn to kick using the right principles and systems. It takes years to learn to adapt to all conditions.

Yes it can take only a few minutes to learn to jump using a jump cue. It still takes a good amount of time to master the skill though.

I jump great. One of the best in the world. I can't run out though because I have neglected the diligent practice in tht area of my game. I have however practiced the jump shot to such a degree that it has become a thing of second nature to quickly adjust for the correct amount of trajectory, speed and spin to apply when shooting.

It is an ignorant slap in the face to reduce all that to the equipment. That is like saying that great draw shots are only possible because of a certain shaft taper. Some cues are more suited to the application of sidespin than others but NO CUE takes the shot. Only the PERSON holding the cue can make it DO anything.

Yes, a jump cue makes a jump shot more probable, but it does not make the shot. A chalked tip also increases the probability of drawing the cueball three rails but how many of us can do this consistently no matter what cue we hold?

Back to kicking, with Tom Rossman and 30 minutes I can have any C-Player kicking like Efren. The window is truly open on that bet.

Good Post John. Kicking isn't all that hard. The main thing for any of it is to use your brain. Too many players rely on something or someone else to do their thinking in Pool.

Gerry
05-10-2007, 04:02 AM
Coming up in a room that was ruled by 14.1 and how many balls you could run I didn't buy a jumper til going to the big events. After a few years I stopped using it....I still jump balls with my player, but the last time I broke out the jumper was to play a gaff game where I played with my jump cue....which is hard to do !:)

Jumping with a full cue is a sweet shot to watch, with a morphed out composite thing it makes me cringe no matter who is on the other end of the jumper.

On a side note, I'm short at 5'6" which makes jumping MUCH harder than someone say like Johnny Archer. Maybe another reason the Filipinos choose to kick more?:o

Gerry

SpiderWebComm
05-10-2007, 05:42 AM
If you are truly interested then the pros of jump cues has been outlined countless times in dozens of threads like this one. I think that you already know the pro side of the debate.

If you want to ban jump cues then change the rules so that they are not needed or ban the jump shot altogether.

While you are at it, ban the sand wedge and the putter. Golf would really be a skill game without a bag full of different clubs.

You totally missed my point.. in fact, you prob didn't even read my original post thoroughly. I never said ban sand wedges - I just the USGA banned sand wedges with holes cut through the face (which helped anyone get out of the sand). All I'm saying is these new jump cues allow "anyone" to jump with almost no ability or practice. I know it might seem like I'm sensationalizing things, but ask Earl. Neils hopped the CB that was 6" from behind a blocking ball in the US Open and ran out and won the set from there. Probably cost Earl his 6th US Open. Should that shot have been available? Should he not be forced to kick?

I hate to keep using golf as an example, but it's one of the biggest pro sports in the world. Jack Nicklaus was quoted as saying golf technology was "getting out of hand" and that the PGA should retard golf ball technology and make club grooves more shallow. His reasoning was the golf courses were being made obsolete because people were driving 350 (much straighter because of new 'space age' dimple designs) and really only using a handful of clubs in their bag-- and basically using a golf ball that acted like a 'dart' when shot at the green. His final point was the shot making ability of the pros years before were much better because pros actually HAD to shape balls, HAD to hit 3 irons into greens, etc.

If you read my earlier post, I'm not saying eliminate jump shots... I'm just saying jump with what you play with. If you can't clear a ball that's 7" away with you cue, it prob shouldn't be jumped. I remember when I first played with one, I almost couldn't believe what I could jump. It eliminated many of the variables required to jump well-- the only real thing you have to worry about is speed (to make sure you don't jump the CB 1/2 down the table inadvertently). The angle of the cue and technique were a MOOT point (unless you're really close to a blocking ball).

They can prob make a break cue that breaks the balls 10x as hard with 0 spin, make a new jump cue that jumps anything, anywhere or a contraption that forces you to stroke straight (I think I saw one of these not long ago - how retarded). My point is merely - is that good for the game? I don't think it's a technology issue like you make it - it's a fundamentals issue.

Calm a bit, you seem upset. :)

SpiderWebComm
05-10-2007, 05:46 AM
My list of reasons I hate jump-cues:

1. I hate it when I perform a rather difficult maneuver to leave the cue-ball safe only to watch my opponent pull out his jump-cue and leap over the ball.

2. I hate it even more when he's safed himself and he manages to continue his run by use of his jump-cue.

3. I hate it when a beginninerish player decides to purchase a jump-cue then spend hours at the poolroom flying the cue-ball off the table in his quest to perfect jumping, ESPECIALLY if I'm at the next table.

4. I hate what the cloth looks like when anyone is done practicing their jump-shots.

5. I hate the fact that advanced kicking has become a less important aspect of 9-ball as a result of jump-cues.

6. I hate how jump-cues look rubberbanded to the outside of some googan's case.

7. Lastly, I HATE the fact that I must also own a jump-cue because I refuse to to be a martyr.


Seriously, especially in today's day and age, we have incredible access to technology and there is no doubt that technology will yield tools that are better equipped for a given task. Look no further than baseball's aluminum bats for reference. However, just because technology can produce something better doesn't mean we should use it. Part of what makes up the game of pool is the fact that we are restricted to the equipment of the game. Now, all games evolve and there is no doubt that pool has also evolved but we must be careful what we allow to be a part of that evolution. Such devices as spliced shafts and perfectly round plastic balls are, in my opinion, within the spirit of the rules. Using multiple cues during a game is not.

What do people on here do? "tap tap tap?"
You said it better than me.

SpiderWebComm
05-10-2007, 11:37 AM
I read your post, I understood your points. That's why I replied to each paragraph individually. Perhaps you should follow your own advice and do a bit of reading on the subject before you go off and make points that have been refuted a hundred times over.

You don't hate to keep using golf as an example you are leaning on it because it is easy to find some equipment vs. skill references there to use as examples. Neither Jack nor Tiger would prefer to go back to the clubs used in 1910 I'd wager. However if golf did that they Jack and Tiger would still excel because everyone would be using the same equipment.

I know you never said ban sand wedges - I did. Why do you need them? Why not play golf with one club only? Oh wait you are in a sand trap and so you pull out a "sand" wedge to get out of the sand trap. You are hooked on the table and your only option is to jump the ball so you use a "jump" cue. Does the sand wedge or the jump cue make the shot? No. But it makes the shot easier because it is designed for that particular purpose.

Do you think you could make the jump shots that Shawn Putnam makes just because you have a jump cue? I will give you a month with any jump cue you want and put Shawn in the box against you for any amount you want. If the jump cue is such an equalizer then you ought to have no problem to outjump or at least stay even with Shawn Putnam.

Do I care if Earl lost a match because his opponent jumped a ball and got out? Perhaps Earl should have played a better safe. That's what pros do when they know what options their opponents have. Should Niels be mad if he leaves Earl a jump shot that he can make 95% of the time and Earl makes it? By the way, Earl Strickland uses a jump cue. When he was with Cuetec he had a shorter cue that he used for some jump shots that were too close to shoot with his regular cue. In addition to being an ass he is also a hypocrite when it comes to jump cues.

And yes the jump cue eliminated many of the variables to jumping balls - namely the fact that each 58" inch cue jumps differently, from well to almost not at all. Now instead of fighting the cue players can focus on the shot.

"It eliminated many of the variables required to jump well-- the only real thing you have to worry about is speed (to make sure you don't jump the CB 1/2 down the table inadvertently). The angle of the cue and technique were a MOOT point (unless you're really close to a blocking ball)."

This statement right here shows that you have no clue what jumping well is. You, like a lot of folks, think jumping well is simply about clearing the blocking ball. For someone who quotes Niklaus on finesse you don't have a clue as to the finesse required to jump well. I will spot you five shots in a ten shot jump contest because I already know from your statements that you have NO CHANCE to make most of the shots I can with a jump cue.

You say it's a fundamentals issue. You are absolutely correct. And with a jump cue in hand the player can work on his fundamentals such as proper stroke technique, proper speed control, judgement and so on without having to fight with a cue that is not designed for the shot and feels awkward and unnatural.

A chalked tip allows anyone with little or no practice to apply spin to the cueball. Should that be allowed? Someone might accidentally draw their ball and think they are a player.......worse they might accidentally spin the cueball just right and beat a player. Ban Chalk!!! Ban Tips!!

Sorry SpideWeb, your experience doesn't stack up to mine. I have been teaching people to jump for going on ten years. I know FOR A FACT that a jump cue does not allow "anyone to jump with almost no ability or practice."

When you have spent time in the box teaching thousands of people to jump with a jump cue, correcting their strokes, explaining the physics, and have the satisfaction of watching their joy when they finally "get it" then you can come back and make authorative statements on jump cues. Until then you are just another jump-cue hater who is ignorant of the facts and blinded by prejudice.

No bet on the Scotty Townsend jump-a-thon with two "regular" cues of my choosing????? I will let you have Earl and you have the same bet.

If my girlfriend -- who doesn't ever play pool -- can take my friend's jump cue and clear an impeding ball, suffice it to say it eliminates the skill, Mr. Jumper-of-the-Universe.

Your attitude is kinda rammy on here, which is why I prefaced my original message w/ "no flaming please" as I was pretty eloquent in my original post, careful not to impose my will on anyone- I just wanted to hear views. Jude said it best where pool wasn't meant to have a bag full of utility cues to play with - that was the point I was trying to make, but he said it better.

Chalk and tips are part of the fundamental, original game of billiards - not shorty little jump cues w/ phenolic tips. Didn't you say in an earlier post you can't run out well but you can jump anything? Sounds like people put the clamp on you during games quite a bit. No wonder you're so "pro-jump-cues." Without your little phenolic-hopping-friend, you'd prob pull your hair out.

No thanks w/ your retarded, tempermental proposition bet. You sound like a 16-year-old barking in a poolhall. "I'll put so-and-so-world-champion in against ya."

Take a beta-blocker, relax and stop the ramming. If you wanna get in my pocket, I'm in York, PA. We can have a friendly game. I'll run over you or you'll run over me. In the end, one thing is for sure.... I'll have my composure.

supergreenman
05-10-2007, 11:54 AM
My list of reasons I hate jump-cues:

1. I hate it when I perform a rather difficult maneuver to leave the cue-ball safe only to watch my opponent pull out his jump-cue and leap over the ball.

2. I hate it even more when he's safed himself and he manages to continue his run by use of his jump-cue.

3. I hate it when a beginninerish player decides to purchase a jump-cue then spend hours at the poolroom flying the cue-ball off the table in his quest to perfect jumping, ESPECIALLY if I'm at the next table.

4. I hate what the cloth looks like when anyone is done practicing their jump-shots.

5. I hate the fact that advanced kicking has become a less important aspect of 9-ball as a result of jump-cues.

6. I hate how jump-cues look rubberbanded to the outside of some googan's case.

7. Lastly, I HATE the fact that I must also own a jump-cue because I refuse to to be a martyr.


Seriously, especially in today's day and age, we have incredible access to technology and there is no doubt that technology will yield tools that are better equipped for a given task. Look no further than baseball's aluminum bats for reference. However, just because technology can produce something better doesn't mean we should use it. Part of what makes up the game of pool is the fact that we are restricted to the equipment of the game. Now, all games evolve and there is no doubt that pool has also evolved but we must be careful what we allow to be a part of that evolution. Such devices as spliced shafts and perfectly round plastic balls are, in my opinion, within the spirit of the rules. Using multiple cues during a game is not.

I thought of you yesturday when I pulled out my jump cue when I was playing some one-pocket. ;)

CreeDo
05-10-2007, 12:34 PM
Spider and others... you should probably stop using "the game wasn't meant" or "they didn't intend" in their arguments. That kind of argument's weak because

A: you can't claim to know what some guy 'intended' hundreds of years ago when he invented the earliest form of pool and

B: it doesn't matter anyway, all modern games are a mix of the inventor's intended game and clever modern improvements. Maybe the guy who invented golf "intended" it to be 1 club only or 5 holes or 200 yards. The guy who invented pool sure as hell didn't intend jump cues, but he also didn't intend regular cues or pockets for the balls either, check out the croquet wickets: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Billiards-q75-1426x1200.jpg

Appealing to the old days or how something was "meant" to be played is mostly useless. Jumps are within the spirit of the game, it's not like the game will evolve into some frenzied freakshow where balls go flying through the air like startled grasshoppers just because we have equipment that makes it easy... it's still more efficient to win a game by keeping the balls grounded and playing position, and those who do that best will still be the best players, regardless of what trick shots the other guy can do.

PS: I'm sure you didn't mean to come off this way, but it sounded kinda chauvinist the way you mentioned "even my girlfriend can jump with these cues!" ...it sounds a little like... 'even a stupid female can do this!'

I don't mean any offense, I know you wouldn't willingly insult her.
Anyway you didn't mention if she could do it from 1 ball width away or if she could hit and sink the intended object ball. There's a big difference between "I can clear balls with this stick" to "I can sink the shot and get position". Maybe 1 player in a million can shoot a jump shot and sink it with the same consistency as they would a normal shot, plus play some kind of position afterwards. The rest of us can't do all of those things, and don't know anyone who can. Most of us are happy just to get over the impeding ball without a foul, whether we needed a miracle jump cue or not.

SpiderWebComm
05-10-2007, 12:37 PM
And I will bet the farm that you didn't just hand her the cue and say "jump this honey". I am 100% positive that you or your friend gave her at least a little bit of instruction even if it was only "hit here".

Deny it.

I don't deny it. Of course we said - "hit it here and hold it like this." My only point was she doesn't play pool, ever, and she can jump w/ a jump cue.

You made your point, I made mine. I'm bored w/ this. Ultimately you win because they're legal and prob always will be. I just think it's a shame. You don't. That's your opinion.

Koopa
05-10-2007, 12:51 PM
Don't want to see my jump cue? Play a better safe. Leaving the cue ball a foot away from the ob hooking it is not a good safe at all. Hell, make me kick 4 rails.

And I agree with what John said. Saying that my jump cue does the work for me is offensive. I learned how to use a jump cue 3 years ago, but I definitely wasn't making as many shots with it as I am now.

Did my jump cue get better?

skor
05-10-2007, 12:56 PM
I didn't read all the posts on this debate but here is a point to consider:
I agree that jump cues are making it easier to get out of a snooker but it also means that in order to prevent your opponent from using the jump cue you should play a better safety, like freezing the CB to the blocking ball, so while the skill of jumping got easier to obtain, the skill of playing good safety got harder...

You need to look at both sides of the situation, one aspect of the game got easier while the other got harder...

Snapshot9
05-10-2007, 01:06 PM
I am with John all the way on this too. Learning to jump first with a full cue, then later on with a jump cue was not particularly easy to me, as I am only 5'7" and getting the right angle is not always the easiest thing to do, but I was tired of getting beat with a jump cue, so I bought one and learned to use it.

Good players do not always jump well, and sometimes lessor players jump better than they play. I evaluate the shot first and decide whether it is best to kick or jump. A kick shot with a good possibility of getting a leave is better than a jump shot that will sell out if you don't make it.

I rarely miss hitting the ball when I kick, and that's up to 5 rails. I kick better than I jump, but I am not too bad with a jump cue either (stroke method). I missed 3 jump shots in a row one night, got pissed off, put the jumper up, and shot the next 4 with my playing cue, and made all 4.

The point is: Jump cues are legal, anyone can use any legal equipment they want to and should use what maximizes their game. Now, if someone else doesn't use some equipment, that is on them, not you.

Final suggestion: If you can not stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, and if you can, don't ***** at the cook.
Gee, I still have my old wooden 'Tad' tennis racket, a good racket in its day. Think I would stand a chance against the steel rackets of today?

Slider
05-10-2007, 01:35 PM
So far, at least two of the posters in this thread have mentioned banning jump shots, along with banning jump cues.

Banning jump cues is one thing, and is fairly straightforward, but an attempt to ban jump shots would be a regulatory nightmare. Imagine, for instance, how difficult it would be to define a "jump shot". The cue ball leaves the surface of the table on many shots, including the break. What's the criteria?

I have owned a Frog for a few years, and have had opportunity to use it occasionally, but 90% of my play is 9-ball under USPPA, which has now banned jump cues. There's absolutely no problem, and I haven't heard any complaints, everyone just kicks, or jumps with their playing cue. Nobody seems to miss jump cues, except possibly the manufacturers and dealers.

There is one other group of people who miss jump cues - room owners who don't have to recover their tables quite so often.

Ken

supergreenman
05-10-2007, 01:56 PM
Don't want to see my jump cue? Play a better safe. Leaving the cue ball a foot away from the ob hooking it is not a good safe at all. Hell, make me kick 4 rails.

And I agree with what John said. Saying that my jump cue does the work for me is offensive. I learned how to use a jump cue 3 years ago, but I definitely wasn't making as many shots with it as I am now.

Did my jump cue get better?

I want one of those jump cues that get better with age ;)

Slider
05-10-2007, 02:20 PM
The reason corked bats aren't allowed is because the whole infrastructure of baseball would have to change by moving the fences back to accomodate the longer distances. That is not the case with jump cues.
The fences wouldn't need to be moved, people would simply need to get used to double-digit baseball scores. Maybe some scoreboards would need to be modified to accomodate the occasional triple-digit game, but that's about it. No big deal. The record books might have to go to a two-tier system, (or would that be three-tier, one for steroids?) but that's a minor bit of history and tradition, something that jump cue afficionados apparently aren't interested in.

Jump cues most definitely change the game of pool, otherwise no one would own or use them. If players have to change their safety strategy because everyone is shooting back at them with a jump cue, that is a significant change in the game. If the cloth on the table starts degrading prematurely, that's a change, too.

Ken