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View Full Version : 14.1 WC Final verdict? Personal videos cameras ok?


VKJ
05-10-2007, 10:18 AM
Has there been a final decision on fans using there own video cameras at the upcoming 14.1 world championship in N.J.

Either way I'll be there but I remember reading a thread that discussed that the event might not have a professional video company record it.

Thanks.

Blackjack
05-10-2007, 11:29 AM
I offered to help - free of charge, but the promoter didn't seem to want the event taped at all this year and Randy was pretty much set against it also. It's too bad, people just want to see good straight pool played by the best players in the world. I am currently trying to put an event together for next year, and I promise that if it materializes, that most of the marquee matches will be videotaped for those that will be unable to attend - even if it is just a stationary camera like the one John Schmidt used in his video.

FWIW, if the event in NJ is not recorded, I'm not really sure what it is supposed to do to generate interest in the game. All we will have for the record books are the stories from those that are fortunate enough to attend, some photographs, and the players scoresheets. Seems a bit unfair to the diehard 14.1 fans in the year 2007, but then again, it is their event and they have their reasons for not wanting it recorded.

Williebetmore
05-10-2007, 11:39 AM
FWIW, if the event in NJ is not recorded, I'm not really sure what it is supposed to do to generate interest in the game.

BJ,
Unfortunately very true. I am saddened to think that so little video footage of 14.1 exists. We have the Balsis-Crane tape, the Maine 14.1 event, the Cleveland event, and a couple of US Opens. That's all I could think of for the past 100 years of competitive straight pool. It's not enough for my taste.

P.S. - By many accounts, the Jeanette Lee - Ralf Souquet match (Lee won) from last year was one for the ages. Not recorded; lost forever except in the memory of the lucky attendee's.

CreeDo
05-10-2007, 02:35 PM
That kinda pisses me off if it definitely won't be recorded. Who are these players who are griping about it? Is it even the players who decided this? The recordings of the last 14.1 WC were excellent, and I thought dragon promotions did the game justice. There were multiple camera angles and a nice overhead cam. Occasionally the camera operator forgot to track the cue ball or got distracted.

Those dragon videos really were pretty nice, and I don't see the players having any issues because of them. Thorsten ran a zillion balls with those cameras on him. Jasmin set a record with 85 with those cameras. I really hope they reconsider and allow recording.

selftaut
05-10-2007, 02:43 PM
That kinda pisses me off if it definitely won't be recorded. Who are these players who are griping about it? Is it even the players who decided this? The recordings of the last 14.1 WC were excellent, and I thought dragon promotions did the game justice. There were multiple camera angles and a nice overhead cam. Occasionally the camera operator forgot to track the cue ball or got distracted.

Willie, you might take heart in knowing there is a little more footage than you maybe realize, some of it amateur and free, other stuff via accustats or dragon. I don't think the lee-souquet match made it to video but a lot of others did (including jasmin "omg HotTTT!!!" oschan against alan hopkins). There are a bunch of videos at http://uzhis.homeip.net:8080/browse.php which is currently down (but always comes back up after a day or so). Check out the straight pool selection, there are probably between 50 and 100 videos, though I agree it's not nearly what it could be.

Those dragon videos really were pretty nice, and I don't see the players having any issues because of them. Thorsten ran a zillion balls with those cameras on him. Jasmin set a record with 85 with those cameras. I really hope they reconsider and allow recording.

Has nothing to do with the players , the promoters overran budget on the video production last year, although as you say was a good job , they overran $10's of thousands, a sure looser for them now , but that was then and this is now , learn from mistakes, Blackjack offered to do it for a coffee and a donut , WITH commentary , but as BJ mentioned , for whatever reasons we might never know they don't want what they think is second rate production , shoot we don't care if its a still video from one angle with no commentary , we will still buy em.

3andstop
05-10-2007, 02:53 PM
Well I don't know enough about it to say for sure but it sounds like sour grapes and politics to me.

CreeDo
05-10-2007, 11:40 PM
yeah, they got bitten once and now they're shy but they simply overdid it the first time. I maybe overstated how nice it was, cuz come to think of it the camera operators really did sometimes get a little screwy and linger too long on a guy's face while ignoring the shot, or shot the object ball dropping without tracking the important result with the cueball.

There was also one EXTREMELY unprofessional sound problem: They caught the sound of max eberle pissing in a urinal and talking to himself during a bathroom break, and didn't edit it out! I don't understand how this was even recorded, much less overlooked in the final cut.

The silence due to lack of commentary was at times deafening, especially in the agonizing hohmann vs eberle matches where they'd spend about 3 minutes on each ball. Some judicious editing would have been welcome here. Get the guys at propoolvideo.com to do it, they do a great job of subtly editing out pauses.

I truly would be happy with ANY kind of recording, and I'd pay for it, even if it's a fixed view, even if it's got no sound. If Blackjack's in touch with the promoter, maybe he could print out this thread and pass it on. A lot of people can't afford to travel across the country to go in person (even if they can afford the tickets) but they DO have money they're willing to spend if you can get them video, the next best thing.

Blackjack
05-11-2007, 04:13 AM
According to both Charlie Williams and Randy Goldwater, the production of last years recording was a nightmare and extremely costly. Randy was not happy with the finished product and when I spoke with Charlie he told me that it was not in the plans to produce a dvd set for this years event due to the fact that it was such a headache in 2006. It took almost 10 months for last year's dvd's to hit the market, the sales did not justify the production costs or the headaches, so understandably DP, Charlie Williams, and Randy Goldwater decided not to bother with it this year. I offered to put together a less expensive production with video cameras and volunteers, however Randy wanted to do it professionally or not at all, and I completely understand that. I wish that they would reconsider, however its far too late in the game to start thinking about it now.

kaznj
05-11-2007, 05:27 AM
The question has not been answered. We people be allowed to video tape on their own? If someone sets up a video camera on a tripod with he be asked to take it down?

Blackjack
05-11-2007, 05:36 AM
The question has not been answered. We people be allowed to video tape on their own? If someone sets up a video camera on a tripod with he be asked to take it down?

I believe that Randy addressed this in an earlier thread. He was upset that some "unauthorized" video was taken at last year's event, so I believe that the answer would be "no" - however - if you got a camera and want to help me ... lol ... j/k ... :p

kaznj
05-11-2007, 07:23 AM
I can understand about last year's unauthorized filming. That cut into their business of selling their videos. But, this year there is no authorized filming or video sales. Fans filming this can only add to advertising for future tournaments. This is not in competition with any sales.

Vahmurka
05-11-2007, 07:51 AM
I can understand about last year's unauthorized filming. That cut into their business of selling their videos. But, this year there is no authorized filming or video sales. Fans filming this can only add to advertising for future tournaments. This is not in competition with any sales.count me in sharing the same opinion. Before I could have a chance to take a glance at official records, I enjoyed tapes made by Austrian Michael Felder, taken with a tripod camera. I suppose no-one can ban players who want to keep recoring their matchplay? Especially since there would be no other opportunity to do it.
Sad to learn promoters didn't care enough about really promoting their business with videotapes.

Voodoo Daddy
05-11-2007, 08:02 AM
Why wouldnt Pat Flemming want to video this event, I mean he is a 14.1 guy. No wonder there is only a couple of 14.1 tournaments anymore, none of the younger crowd knows the beauty of it. Sad...

selftaut
05-11-2007, 08:15 AM
Why wouldnt Pat Flemming want to video this event, I mean he is a 14.1 guy. No wonder there is only a couple of 14.1 tournaments anymore, none of the younger crowd knows the beauty of it. Sad...

In a previous tread on the subject , they said AccuStats was definately out , but didn't give a reason.

Blackjack
05-11-2007, 09:25 AM
IIRC, in the earlier thread Randy elaborated that there were licensing and trademark issues with Accu-Stats and the name of the event.

Bob Jewett
05-11-2007, 11:06 AM
IIRC, in the earlier thread Randy elaborated that there were licensing and trademark issues with Accu-Stats and the name of the event.
I can't see how that could be an issue unless the rights holder demanded that the name "Accu-stats" not appear on the final product. If that's the case, there are lots of video production companies around, but they probably would charge more than Accu-stats. I was told that to get a production company to produce a two-hour show (for ESPN, for example) cost around $35,000.

NYC cue dude
05-11-2007, 12:47 PM
I can't see how that could be an issue unless the rights holder demanded that the name "Accu-stats" not appear on the final product. If that's the case, there are lots of video production companies around, but they probably would charge more than Accu-stats. I was told that to get a production company to produce a two-hour show (for ESPN, for example) cost around $35,000.

accustats wanted EQUAL OWNERSHIPS rights to the event AND the name.

rg

Fragged
05-11-2007, 03:09 PM
accustats wanted EQUAL OWNERSHIPS rights to the event AND the name.

rg

They wanted equal rights to the name for this one year's event or the world strainght pool championship ad infinitum? What are the ramifications if the former?

CreeDo
05-11-2007, 05:07 PM
what's that exactly mean equal ownership rights to the event? They get to call it "the accustats 14.1 world championship"? They get half the ticket sales? They get half the dvd sales? I'm not clear on what's being given up.

NYC cue dude
05-14-2007, 08:35 AM
what's that exactly mean equal ownership rights to the event? They get to call it "the accustats 14.1 world championship"? They get half the ticket sales? They get half the dvd sales? I'm not clear on what's being given up.

EVERYTHING!

dmgwalsh
05-14-2007, 09:13 AM
EVERYTHING!

Can't wait to at least hear about the tournament. Would love to go to it but I don't know if I can swing it. Got a bunch of "honey-dos" to finish before I could broach the subject.

I was watching the Schmidt/Hohmann match this am which I converted to my IPod. Nice to be able to see players of that caliber cross swords.

I may get to see the qualifier in Chicago when I find out where the pool hall is. Elgin, I think.

VKJ
05-14-2007, 09:43 AM
First I want to say how thankfull I am to all involved with producing this event. 14.1 events are way to rare and I'll support it by being there BUT
if there is no pro filming of the event then its a shame that fans with cameras can't shoot from a reasonable and respectfull distance from the tables. I will respect a no camera decision but I don't agree with it.

I agree with a lot of the comments here. 14.1 needs these events and these events desperatly need to be recorded. It keeps an ongoing history and record of how the best played it as well as a way to improve your own 14.1 game. It also is a great way to stay excited and look forward to the next one. I also agree that when you think about how many 14.1 events and great matches are now gone with no record its another reason the audience should be allowed to record it.