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View Full Version : Key Ball Frozen On Foot Rail.


mnorwood
07-31-2007, 06:38 PM
In my studies of end rack patterns many authors and 14.1 gurus suggest a keyball closer to the side pockets to set up for a traditional break shot. However, I have been experimenting with a key ball that is within an inch, if not frozen to the foot rail. I find it easear to get into position and easier to control the speed on a one or two rail play for a break shot. This pattern is most versitile the further the ball is to the center of the foot rail.

I am sorry I don't have a diagram as I don't have the download.

sjm
07-31-2007, 07:19 PM
Certainly, the ball you describe can be a very good key ball, offering lots of play onto the standard breakshot, but minimizing the amount of position that must be played onto the break ball is considered best technique, and this fails to accomplish that objective.

Williebetmore
07-31-2007, 07:25 PM
With these types of key balls, the cue ball will be heading up table fairly parallel to the target zone...going parallel to the zone instead of across it; one of the cardinal position principles. These can be excellent key balls (though having the object ball a bit off the rail gives you more options).

Of course you will also be violating another of the cardinal principles: minimize cueball movement.

It is one of the fascinating aspects of 14.1; there are multiple principles of good play on which all experts agree....and you will have to violate several of them every rack. Knowing which principle takes precedence at what point in the rack is what separates the true old school masters from us schmucks.

Take a lesson from one of the "risk minimization" masters (like Danny D. or Grady; or perhaps Danny Barouty), and you will be very impressed with the amount of thinking that goes on during even a seemingly simple pattern.

What I think you will find is that minimizing cue ball movement is one of the very most important principles LATE IN THE GAME when your muscles get a bit tight, and even the simple hangers start to look tough. Thats when a simple "stop-stop-stop" final sequence is worth its weight in gold - especially if cash is on the line.

alinco
07-31-2007, 08:32 PM
Mnorwood,

Is this diagram about right? The 1 is your typical break shot and the 2 is where you describe. I kinda like the 3 ball a little better. Both positions can be either 1 or 2 rails. I like the 3 better because it is easier to get the cue ball to position B than position A.

As SJM points out, this works well if you have a previous ball that will let you easily get to A or B.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4ALFq1BAWf1COCf2QMem2RMdG2lMem2lCKe2lBtk1lIpH1lI xF2mMdG1mLYf1mMGk1mayn4mJfw4mJfw4mJfx@

Steve Lipsky
07-31-2007, 08:45 PM
I agree with this keyball's utility, but I am curious why you say it is most versatile the closer to the center of the footrail it is?

An end pattern involving an object ball at about the first diamond on the footrail, on the same side as the break ball, is imo much more effective. It is very easy to float two natural rails into position.

With the key ball in the center, it's tougher to use any inside english to get to that second rail, because it often makes a scratch in the side pretty big. So then you have to do some awkward stuff to miss the side, which can cause you to play shape a little too conservatively.

- Steve

Deadon
07-31-2007, 09:22 PM
Me thinks he was talking about the foot rail.:cool:

mnorwood
07-31-2007, 09:34 PM
I agree with this keyball's utility, but I am curious why you say it is most versatile the closer to the center of the footrail it is?

An end pattern involving an object ball at about the first diamond on the footrail, on the same side as the break ball, is imo much more effective. It is very easy to float two natural rails into position.

With the key ball in the center, it's tougher to use any inside english to get to that second rail, because it often makes a scratch in the side pretty big. So then you have to do some awkward stuff to miss the side, which can cause you to play shape a little too conservatively.

- Steve
I guess I ment to say closer to the center because it wouldn't matter which end the cue ball is on the play position. I like the ball frozen because it makes a shot involving inside english more reliable, at least for me. I find the rail first inside english shot easier than a thin cut when the ball is between a quarter of an inch to two inches from the rail espcially if the cut is thin.

Jimmy M.
07-31-2007, 10:50 PM
I wouldn't pass up a classic stop-shot-in-the-side-pocket key ball over the one you described unless I had no reasonable route to get to it. With that said, when those side pocket key balls don't exist, I'm either looking for an alternate pattern, which would include a key ball like the one you described OR, if one happens to be available, an opportunity to push a ball up into a good key ball position. Here's another pattern that shows up often and, when you don't have the "classic" key ball, is a pretty nice finishing pattern. As you can see, the ball that is the key ball in this sequence is also a versatile key ball. Even if you get straight in, or on the wrong side of it, you at least have a shot at getting to your break ball. However, in this example, you'd have to go out of your way not to get the right angle on the key ball. I'm just offering a diagram of a reasonable second-choice pattern when the classic "stop stop stop" pattern doesn't exist.

START(
%BM9S4%DL9D4%JL6N9%P[5F5%QM1G1%RW2S2%UM2C6%VM0D2%WM3D4%X[3F3
%YN0G0%ZM4C1
)END

Williebetmore
08-01-2007, 05:06 AM
Mnorwood,

Is this diagram about right? The 1 is your typical break shot and the 2 is where you describe. I kinda like the 3 ball a little better. Both positions can be either 1 or 2 rails. I like the 3 better because it is easier to get the cue ball to position B than position A.

As SJM points out, this works well if you have a previous ball that will let you easily get to A or B.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4ALFq1BAWf1COCf2QMem2RMdG2lMem2lCKe2lBtk1lIpH1lI xF2mMdG1mLYf1mMGk1mayn4mJfw4mJfw4mJfx@

AC,
Your 2 ball is on the head rail, not the foot rail. Having said that, I think all the discussion so far is applicable to key balls on either the head rail or the foot rail.

Blackjack
08-01-2007, 05:35 AM
Here is an example of a classic end pattern using the side pocket stop shot key ball.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@1FKdH4GGwi3HSBx3LRvD4PCnT3QRnS3RRAv1aKdH1aanF3cS Bx3ccht3gRvD2gcYw4kCnT3kPoo3kQGj3kRAv3lRnS1lIIG3mR Av3mRfS3mRfS2qQtF&ZZ@

From where we are, we pocket the 8 and follow up to get straight on the 12 ball in the top corner. When that is accomplished, we have two very simple stop shots to get on our break ball, (the 7).

This next situation is a little more tricky because you have more options...
http://CueTable.com/P/?@3HHFX4JKwW3MWoJ2OJWE3POeJ@

In this layout, we have two potential break balls, and THREE potention key balls. I love when this happens! We can shoot the 13, come around for the 15 in the side... by doing that you can use the 10 as a key ball to get on the 8... that is the beauty of having 2 key balls and multiple key balls to work with as you get down to the end pattern.

This diagram has 3 pages...

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3HHFX4JKwW3MWoJ2OJWE3POeJ1QKEU3hWoJ3hcxv3kOeJ3kV xr3kbOb1kKMV1kKMV@3HHFX4JKwW3Mcxv2OJWE1PKMV4QIhY2j JWE2jeGA1kKMV2kGdG4kIhY@3HHFX4JKwW3Mcxv2OeGA4PIhY3 QHjF4eKwW4ecpv4ecpv4edfw4kIhY4kKXH3kHbG@

We can also deal with the same situation by using the 13 as a key ball - starting this end sequence by shooting the 10 ...

This diagram has 3 pages...
http://CueTable.com/P/?@3HHFX4JKwW3MWoJ2OJWE3POeJ4QIAE4eKwW4eKoR4echq3kO eJ4kJiI4kbVk4kIIE4kIIE@3HHFX4Jchq3MWoJ2OJWE4PIIE3Q IIR2jJWE2jeGB3jeOB4kIIE2kGdE3kIIR@3HHFX4Jchq3MWoJ3 OeOB3PIIR3QHSu3hWoJ3hdGt3kIIR3kWGs3kaph3kHSu@

It all comes down to what your preference is in that situation.

I will make another post shortly that deals with using a ball at the top or bottom rail as a key ball - and why I don't like that idea.

Blackjack
08-01-2007, 06:07 AM
In this layout we are down to 4 balls, with the 12 ball down on the end rail...

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4IFqV1KRxS2LBEW4MVBn4PAhR@

I have two potential key balls - either the 11 or the 13. I like going from the 11 to the 12 - then using the 13 as my key ball.

This diagram has 4 pages

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4IFqV1KRxS2LBEW4MVBn4PAhR1QVqg1fRxS1fcpu4kAhR1kR pE1kbOm1kVqh@4IFqV1Kcpu2LBEW4MVBn1PVqh1QDKe2gBEW2g dOs1kVqh1kBtV1kBtj1kDSe@4IFqV1Kcpu2LdOs4MVBn1PDSe1 QHjH1kDSe4kUcV4kbWb1kIAH@4IFqV1Kcpu2LdOs4Mcpx1PIAH @

Here is the same sequence and I will use the 12 as my key ball...

PAY SPECIAL ATTENTION TO PAGES 4, 5, & 6 ...

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4IFqV1KRxS2LBEW4MVBn4PAhR4QQaL4hVBn4hcYv4kAhR4kU TW4kbPJ4kRPS4kQaL@4IFqV1KRxS2LBEW4McYv4PQaL1QPvE1f RxS1fcxw4kQaL1kRxD1kQEE@4IFqV1Kcxw2LBEW4McYv1PQEE4 QEhF1kQEE1kBtV1kBtj4kEpF4lEhF4lEpF@4IFqV1Kcxw2LBEW 4McYv1PQEE1QQyU1kQEE1kBtW1kCbl1kQid1kQid1kQyV@4IFq V1Kcxw2LBEW4McYv1PQEE4QQUJ1kQEE1kBlW1kBlj4kQUJ2qQt F&ZZ@4IFqV1Kcxw2LBEW4McYv1PQEE3QHdW1kQEE1kBtW1kEOj1k bIh3kHUW2qQtF&ZZ@

Page 1... 13 corner coming back to get straight on the 11...

Page 2... 11 in the corner, follow for an angle on the 12...

Page 3... 12 in the corner coming straight down to center table for my break shot...

However....

Look at page 4.... we do not hit the shot correctly... we are left in No Man's Land.

Look at page 5... we come down table too far and at the wrong angle... the slightest bit of sidespin can throw you off target. I bring this up because if you look at that shot on the 12, many players tend to spin these shots in.

Look at page 6.... Another disaster.

The first illustrated end pattern is the correct pattern and using key ball shots on that top rail should be avoided - especially if you have other options.

Blackjack
08-01-2007, 06:23 AM
Using the other rail...



First of all, if you are in this situation, you made some major errors along the way. Sometimes we do find ourselves in these situations, but what I illustrate in this layout (on pages 2 and 3) is what can go wrong by using the 4 as your key ball.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3DEWc4FHFY4LVCn4PURA4QSiQ4gVCn4gcps4kURA4kUtV4kS iP@3DEWc4FHFY4Lcps4PSiP2RAQR4kSiP3kBld3kCCj2kAQR@3 Dchn1FQpD4Lcps4PGop@

The first shot we really dont have an angle into the stack, so now we have to create one. You don't want to be twisting your cue ball into the stack on your break shots...

Page 3... we pocket the 4 and run into the 6 ball. I see this all the time, sometimes I do it myself. Needless to say, be careful... lol

In the below diagram, we have more control over the shot. This shot is similar to a shot I did on Saturday playing with fellow poster "Big Perm"... this is a very high percentage shot - you have to set up for it a few shots in advance.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3FGbW3JHFb4PGSb3QJXE3aGbW3acAn3adGn3adGn4kGSb3kD pV3kbAa3kJgF@

Steve Lipsky
08-01-2007, 06:41 AM
Me thinks he was talking about the foot rail.:cool:


Oops, I've never known which is which, lol. Please apply my above post to the head rail ;).

- Steve

alinco
08-01-2007, 03:59 PM
Oops, I've never known which is which, lol. Please apply my above post to the head rail ;).

- Steve

Uh, that would by MY oops! I think I steered you wrong with my diagram of the other end of the table...

Andy

Steve Lipsky
08-01-2007, 04:06 PM
Uh, that would by MY oops! I think I steered you wrong with my diagram of the other end of the table...

Andy

Thanks Andy, but I can't use that as an excuse... I was making my post while you submitted yours - I never saw it until I re-read the thread later :).

Guess we're both lame....

Steve Lipsky
08-01-2007, 04:06 PM
<dupe post>