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arsenius
09-11-2007, 03:56 AM
I was playing the ghost at 14.1 (I give myself BIH on a breakshot and see how many innings it takes to get to 100) the other day. Normally I can't see dead balls very often, but this time I was really spotting them. Maybe 3 times during my practice I was able to correctly spot and make dead balls from the pack. I was really pleased. Normally I don't see any while playing, other times I might see one and miss it.

So, I was just wondering if anyone had any advice on finding dead balls in the stack. Normally I just try to look and see if there is anything tempting. Since in the past I haven't found much, I assume that I was probably looking wrong. Is there anything besides experience that can help you pick out dead combinations in the pack? Or do you need to just shoot and make/miss a bunch of them?

Blackjack
09-11-2007, 05:22 AM
I was playing the ghost at 14.1 (I give myself BIH on a break shot and see how many innings it takes to get to 100) the other day. Normally I can't see dead balls very often, but this time I was really spotting them. Maybe 3 times during my practice I was able to correctly spot and make dead balls from the pack. I was really pleased. Normally I don't see any while playing, other times I might see one and miss it.

So, I was just wondering if anyone had any advice on finding dead balls in the stack. Normally I just try to look and see if there is anything tempting. Since in the past I haven't found much, I assume that I was probably looking wrong. Is there anything besides experience that can help you pick out dead combinations in the pack? Or do you need to just shoot and make/miss a bunch of them?


It's a great idea to study the rack and the clusters after each and every shot from each and every angle.

Below we have a very interesting rack with several dead balls that may or may not be able to be made.


http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AJiE4BCYB3CGoy4DCBI4EFjd3FCxe4GBKP3HAMB3IAUe3JF Cp4KDnP3LBjP3MEMO3NBBk3OXEL1PXFW@

First, let's look at what we may or may not have...

The 10 Ball

The 10 sort of just jumps out at you because it is extended out from the rack further than the other balls. The first things I look at are:
What ball do I need to contact to make this ball?
Is there a ball available for that hit?
If I do hit it, will the chain reaction throw the ball away from the center of the pocket opening?

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AJiE4BCYB3CGoy4DCBI4EFjd3FCxe4GBKP3HAMB3IAUe3JF Cp4KDnP3LBjP3MEMO3NBBk3OXEL1PXFW3QAYq4RGiH3eFCp3eR tV1kXFW4kBap3lAYq3lBBk3lAUB3lFCp3lWbk3lWbk4mGiH3mA Mf3mCxf3mTYj@

We look at different points of contact to make the 10 -

From Point A (on top of the stack)
we try to use the 14... this may not work because there may be gaps between the balls that will throw this shot off course.

From Point B (below the stack)
In this shot the tangent line of the 9 and the 6 is pushing the 10 ball to the end rail, not towards the pocket.

From Point C (Using the 8)
I don't like this because the cue ball does not fit into that gap to get a clean hit on the 8 - plus... from here why not just call the 5 in the corner?

The 14 ball

For this shot, you must get behind the stack and contact the 7 ball cleanly. It?s not very likely that I will get perfect on this shot, and if I make it, I really don?t have much to shoot at next. Because I need to hit the 7 so cleanly, I run the risk of having the cue ball stuck in the middle of nowhere. I don?t like this option.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AJiE4BCYB3CGoy4DCBI4EFjd3FCxe4GBKP3HAMB3IAUe3JF Cp4KDnP3LBjP3MEMO3NBBk3OXEL4PHgR3iBBk2iYWG4kHgR4kC hd4kChd@

This doesn't work either?

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AJiE4BCYB3CGoy4DCBI4EFjd3FCxe4GBKP3HAMB3IAUe3JF Cp4KDnP3LBjP3MEMO3NBBk3OXEL3PKBo3cAMB3cAMA3iBBk2ib Qm3kKBo3kGRE3kGRE3kEtp@

Look at how the 10-6-12-8 line goes.the balls are not lined up straight, and when you make contact, the 14 will be throw towards that rail, not towards the pocket.

In this shot, we can make the 5 ball, as long as we contact the 2 ball. There is a small gap between the 11 and the 5 that makes this a very simple shot to execute.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AJiE4BCYB3CGoy4DCBI4EFjd3FCxe4GBKP3HAMB3IAUe3JF Cp4KDnP3LBjP3MEMO3NBBk3OXEL2PAJR1RLkc4YFjd4Ychu4fD nP4fDvO2kAJR4kCYB1mLkc4mCYB@

In 99 Critical Shots by Ray Martin and Rosser Reeves, there is an entire section towards the back of the book that is dedicated to identifying dead balls in the stack.

Steve Lipsky
09-11-2007, 06:31 AM
This is a superb analysis David. Thanks!

rikdee
09-11-2007, 06:53 AM
Dead ball play involves both recognition and prediction. The knowledge of how balls throw, mesh, and carom when they are frozen or slightly parted is part of this process. Once understood, predicting the amount or degree of movement relative to the pocket opening is the real key. Speed of impact and cue ball spin also can affect the amount of movement.
Once spotted these shots should be carefully considered before just pulling the trigger. Often, it makes sense to clear all loose balls before playing the dead shot as they frequently result in some degree of secondary break. Or, sometimes they can offer a safe way back if going up table to play an escaped ball. In other words, you have a shot you know can be made from a distance. Thus, it important to ensure that maximum advantage is being gained before harvesting your gift.
There are many other aspects of dead ball play but for today, enough said.

_Rick

Snap9
09-11-2007, 08:19 AM
I am visualizing 5 makeable balls. They are the 5,9,10,13 and 14. All are makeable with the correct speed, throws and cue ball position. Ofcourse 3 of the 5 possibles blow the pack completely apart. Choosing wisely as which shot to shoot or none at all depends totally on your oppenents ability to make you pay if you miss. Just my opinion ofcourse.

SpiderWebComm
09-11-2007, 08:41 AM
It's a great idea to study the rack and the clusters after each and every shot from each and every angle.

Below we have a very interesting rack with several dead balls that may or may not be able to be made.


http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AJiE4BCYB3CGoy4DCBI4EFjd3FCxe4GBKP3HAMB3IAUe3JF Cp4KDnP3LBjP3MEMO3NBBk3OXEL1PXFW@

First, let's look at what we may or may not have...

The 10 Ball

The 10 sort of just jumps out at you because it is extended out from the rack further than the other balls. The first things I look at are:
What ball do I need to contact to make this ball?
Is there a ball available for that hit?
If I do hit it, will the chain reaction throw the ball away from the center of the pocket opening?

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AJiE4BCYB3CGoy4DCBI4EFjd3FCxe4GBKP3HAMB3IAUe3JF Cp4KDnP3LBjP3MEMO3NBBk3OXEL1PXFW3QAYq4RGiH3eFCp3eR tV1kXFW4kBap3lAYq3lBBk3lAUB3lFCp3lWbk3lWbk4mGiH3mA Mf3mCxf3mTYj@

We look at different points of contact to make the 10 -

From Point A (on top of the stack)
we try to use the 14... this may not work because there may be gaps between the balls that will throw this shot off course.

From Point B (below the stack)
In this shot the tangent line of the 9 and the 6 is pushing the 10 ball to the end rail, not towards the pocket.

From Point C (Using the 8)
I don't like this because the cue ball does not fit into that gap to get a clean hit on the 8 - plus... from here why not just call the 5 in the corner?

The 14 ball

For this shot, you must get behind the stack and contact the 7 ball cleanly. It?s not very likely that I will get perfect on this shot, and if I make it, I really don?t have much to shoot at next. Because I need to hit the 7 so cleanly, I run the risk of having the cue ball stuck in the middle of nowhere. I don?t like this option.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AJiE4BCYB3CGoy4DCBI4EFjd3FCxe4GBKP3HAMB3IAUe3JF Cp4KDnP3LBjP3MEMO3NBBk3OXEL4PHgR3iBBk2iYWG4kHgR4kC hd4kChd@

This doesn't work either?

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AJiE4BCYB3CGoy4DCBI4EFjd3FCxe4GBKP3HAMB3IAUe3JF Cp4KDnP3LBjP3MEMO3NBBk3OXEL3PKBo3cAMB3cAMA3iBBk2ib Qm3kKBo3kGRE3kGRE3kEtp@

Look at how the 10-6-12-8 line goes.the balls are not lined up straight, and when you make contact, the 14 will be throw towards that rail, not towards the pocket.

In this shot, we can make the 5 ball, as long as we contact the 2 ball. There is a small gap between the 11 and the 5 that makes this a very simple shot to execute.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AJiE4BCYB3CGoy4DCBI4EFjd3FCxe4GBKP3HAMB3IAUe3JF Cp4KDnP3LBjP3MEMO3NBBk3OXEL2PAJR1RLkc4YFjd4Ychu4fD nP4fDvO2kAJR4kCYB1mLkc4mCYB@

In 99 Critical Shots by Ray Martin and Rosser Reeves, there is an entire section towards the back of the book that is dedicated to identifying dead balls in the stack.


It's posts like this that make me come to this site everyday. Thanks for the lesson.

D Player
09-11-2007, 10:33 AM
Blackjack,

I too appreciate the information you're passing along here. Thanks for taking the time to illustrate these dead ball shots.

If you don't mind, I have a couple follow up questions...

Is there a practical limit to the number of balls you have to study when looking at frozen combinations? In other words, if you have three balls which are frozen together, does adding a fourth or fifth ball to the frozen combination make the ball you are trying to pocket behave differently? Also, when you have 3+ frozen balls how much does cue ball action affect the ball you are trying to pocket?

Thanks,
Jeff

arsenius
09-11-2007, 01:06 PM
Wow, Blackjack! Thanks for that! That was much more than I had hoped for.:)

Blackjack
09-11-2007, 01:47 PM
Blackjack,

I too appreciate the information you're passing along here. Thanks for taking the time to illustrate these dead ball shots.

If you don't mind, I have a couple follow up questions...

Is there a practical limit to the number of balls you have to study when looking at frozen combinations? In other words, if you have three balls which are frozen together, does adding a fourth or fifth ball to the frozen combination make the ball you are trying to pocket behave differently? Also, when you have 3+ frozen balls how much does cue ball action affect the ball you are trying to pocket?

Thanks,
Jeff

The answer to your frist question will vary with the lay of the balls. For me, I reinspect the pack after every shot. I look at the stack from all angles and what I am looking for is two things -

1 - A dead ball
2 - a good place to contact the stack with a secondary break shot

Look at the diagram below...

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AOPp4BIsA3CCpA4DINu4EGAW3FGBw4GBKX3HAMB4IBDN3JF bd4KDnL3LBjP3MNbp4NBJl3OBal3PNxk@

A lot of players would be tempted to bang away at the 3 ball in an attempt to pocket the 5 off of the 11. After careful inspection of the pack, we can see that this won't accomplish that. Look at the tangent line of the 3 and the 8. The 3's movement is restricted by the 12 and the 15. This will cause the balls to move as diagrammed below... notice that the 8 ball will contact the 14 - and that the 12 will move the 7 towards the 11 - 5.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AOPp4BIsA3CCpA4DINu4EGAW3FGBw4GBKX3HAMB4IBDN3JF bd4KDnL3LBjP3MNbp4NBJl3OBal3PNxk4VIsA4Vago4YGAW4YU Of4bBKX4bDnd3cAMB4cCQA4cGXi4fDnL4fDvP4fFjY4fEND4fD oN3gBjP3gAlU3gBju4iBJl4iHMr4iIBR3kNxk3kEsq@

Because this will probably not work, we should abandon that idea and look for something else in the pack that is a makeable dead ball, and that offers us a great opportunity to open the pack, or we can abandon it altogether. This is what I would do in this situation....

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AOPp4BIsA3CCpA4DINu4EGAW3FGBw4GBKX3HAMB4IBDN3JF bd4KDnL3LBjP3MNbp4NBJl3OBal3PNxk3UOPp3UdOv4XINu4XN dO4YGAW4YakS4bBKX4bEdh4bGBt4bGBt3cAMB4cChI4cVpE4fD nL4fFbV4fKPp3gBjP4gBKc3gCJW4iBJl4iQcR4iQcR3jBal4jC ex3kNxk3kNiY3kFJt@

The one is an open shot, and afterwards, we will have something like this to deal with...
http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AdOv4BIsA3CCpA4DNdO4EakS3FGBw4GGBt4HVpE4IBDN3JF bd4KKPp3LCJW3MNbp4NQcR4OCex3PFJt@

It is very important to realize when and when not to try and blast a ball out of the stack. From here, I have a couple of break ball options, and nothing is touching anything. That is basically all you need to do.

Blackjack
09-11-2007, 02:11 PM
Blackjack,

Is there a practical limit to the number of balls you have to study when looking at frozen combinations? In other words, if you have three balls which are frozen together, does adding a fourth or fifth ball to the frozen combination make the ball you are trying to pocket behave differently? Also, when you have 3+ frozen balls how much does cue ball action affect the ball you are trying to pocket?

Thanks,
Jeff

I'm not a player that knows anything about physics, sorry... but I do know these rules...

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4CKOV4DCYe3FEtJ4GEdJ4HCoy3ICAX3JFbd3LBSE3MDNt4OB qi3PFhS4XCYe4XLPX3aEtJ3aGpQ3aKxI4bEdJ4bYWe3dCAX3dE Fo3eFbd3eGSi3eHPu3gBSE4gAMV3kFhS3kAcY3kBqh3kHFM@

When looking at the combination in the shot above, it is important to look at the middle ball - the 8 ball and the angle that it is sending the 7 ball. The 15, 7 and 8 balls are all frozen - which actually assists you in keeping this shot rather simple.


In the below diagram, the balls are not frozen, but this shot can stil be manipulated by ensuring that we concentrate on that middle ball - in this case the 8 ball - and contact the object ball exactly where we need to.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4CKOV4DCYe3FEtJ4GEdJ4HCoy3ICAX3JFbd3LBSE3MDNt4OB qi3PFhS4XCYe4XLPX3aEtJ3aGpQ3aKxI4bEdJ4bYWe3dCAX3dE Fo3eFbd3eGSi3eHPu3gBSE4gAMV3kFhS3kAcY3kBqh3kHFM@

In this next shot, we have five balls, some frozen and some not... here we concentrate on the three middle balls (5,4,9). We can see that the 4 and 5 are frozen and moving in a direction towards the 6-9 which is dead on. Tis makes the 4 ball as important as the cue ball, because it needs to contact the 9 ball - so it is imperative to ensure that when we send the 11 into the 5, that teh 4 ball goes exactly where it should.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AHNl3CGgk4DCYe4EFCe3FDno4HMIF3IBbf4KIUn3NPOa3OB QS4PToK3aDno3achs4kToK4kLGp@

As far as the physics involved with your questions, I would refer you to Bob Jewett or Pat Johnson, as they could better explain the science that is involved with that.

CreeDo
09-12-2007, 09:35 AM
I think finding the dead ones is easy, it's identifying the red herrings that's tricky. There are a lot of shots that come up that look dead, then you smash the rack and it's a disaster.

Blackjack's post covers everything pretty well (and I'll second the thought on Ray Martin's book, I love that book).

Some advice on how to avoid embarrassment:

1 - once you have a dead one identified, ask yourself if hitting the balls that combo into it will throw it into or out of the pocket. A shot that goes might get knocked off line by throw if you hit the lead ball from one angle, but not from a different angle. Which lead ball you hit also matters if there's more than one possibility. Generally, if it looks really on, hitting hard will reduce the throw effect and ensure the ball goes along the line you're seeing, and hitting soft will ensure maximum throw if that's what you need to make it.

2 - if there's a half inch of air between any parts of a 'dead' combo, I would be wary of shooting. I don't consider combos with lots of 'air' to be dead at all, no matter how nice they look. Especially if there's an inch or more of air, and especially if the ball to be sunk is the one with a gap around it.

3 - 'dead' caroms are especially tricky, the OB must hit the carom ball at an exact angle, and the speed of the shot matters a lot. A naturally rolling ball might carom into the pocket while a fast sliding ball hits the OB a bit fatter and overcuts. It's pretty risky.

Less risky is when there's a situation where two balls have a ball-sized hole between them, and if you send something into that hole... it will carom into one of them and send it towards the pocket. I can't diagram it at the moment but John Schmidt's 100 ball dvd has the shot at around ball 60 I think. Basically it's a safer than usual carom because the amount of air between the ball you're using to carom and the ball you're sinking is nearly 0. It's far easier than going directly from the ball you're caroming into straight to the pocket.

4 - watch for other balls that will come into play and maybe kiss your dead combo out before it can reach the pocket. For example look at blackjack's first diagram. Both the 7 and the 4 seem to be lined up on that corner. Imagine the 13-12-4 were really dead and the 7's off a bit. If you hit the bottom half of the 13, then you'd run into that 15-8-7 combo and it might kiss the 4 out. So you'd want to be aware of that and maybe hit the 13 from an angle that prevents it.

Lastly, don't forget dead ones in the sides. They come up every so often and are easily overlooked compared to corner ones. Also be aware that during a safety (even an intentional foul safe) you can intentionally nudge a ball into a dead position in the hopes that the opponent doesn't see it or can't hit it.

D Player
09-12-2007, 10:10 AM
Thanks again, Blackjack!

I'm not too much of a physics person myself. I just have very little experience reading the stack to see where dead balls may lie, so I was hoping to apply some of what I do understand (i.e. 2 and 3 ball frozen combinations) to straight pool to help locate which balls are dead.

It seems to the novice straight pooler (me) that finding dead balls becomes more complicated when studying stacks containing more balls. I guess I was just wondering if all balls need to be considered when looking at the stack, or just the two or three balls that neighbor the ball you wish to pocket.

Your posts have been very informative.

Thanks,
Jeff

D Player
09-12-2007, 10:20 AM
I think finding the dead ones is easy, it's identifying the red herrings that's tricky. There are a lot of shots that come up that look dead, then you smash the rack and it's a disaster.

Blackjack's post covers everything pretty well (and I'll second the thought on Ray Martin's book, I love that book).

Some advice on how to avoid embarrassment:

1 - once you have a dead one identified, ask yourself if hitting the balls that combo into it will throw it into or out of the pocket. A shot that goes might get knocked off line by throw if you hit the lead ball from one angle, but not from a different angle. Which lead ball you hit also matters if there's more than one possibility. Generally, if it looks really on, hitting hard will reduce the throw effect and ensure the ball goes along the line you're seeing, and hitting soft will ensure maximum throw if that's what you need to make it.

2 - if there's a half inch of air between any parts of a 'dead' combo, I would be wary of shooting. I don't consider combos with lots of 'air' to be dead at all, no matter how nice they look. Especially if there's an inch or more of air, and especially if the ball to be sunk is the one with a gap around it.

3 - 'dead' caroms are especially tricky, the OB must hit the carom ball at an exact angle, and the speed of the shot matters a lot. A naturally rolling ball might carom into the pocket while a fast sliding ball hits the OB a bit fatter and overcuts. It's pretty risky.

Less risky is when there's a situation where two balls have a ball-sized hole between them, and if you send something into that hole... it will carom into one of them and send it towards the pocket. I can't diagram it at the moment but John Schmidt's 100 ball dvd has the shot at around ball 60 I think. Basically it's a safer than usual carom because the amount of air between the ball you're using to carom and the ball you're sinking is nearly 0. It's far easier than going directly from the ball you're caroming into straight to the pocket.

4 - watch for other balls that will come into play and maybe kiss your dead combo out before it can reach the pocket. For example look at blackjack's first diagram. Both the 7 and the 4 seem to be lined up on that corner. Imagine the 13-12-4 were really dead and the 7's off a bit. If you hit the bottom half of the 13, then you'd run into that 15-8-7 combo and it might kiss the 4 out. So you'd want to be aware of that and maybe hit the 13 from an angle that prevents it.

Lastly, don't forget dead ones in the sides. They come up every so often and are easily overlooked compared to corner ones. Also be aware that during a safety (even an intentional foul safe) you can intentionally nudge a ball into a dead position in the hopes that the opponent doesn't see it or can't hit it.

CreeDo -- very good information here too. I will pay extra attention to the stack tonight during my league match to see I can apply some of what I've learned.

Jeff

rikdee
09-12-2007, 11:58 AM
[Originally Posted by CreeDo
I think finding the dead ones is easy, it's identifying the red herrings that's tricky. There are a lot of shots that come up that look dead, then you smash the rack and it's a disaster.


As I mentioned in my post above, the real skill in these shots is the ability to predict exactly what will happen when the situation is somewhat questionable such as space between the balls, judging whether a ball will nick the edge of an intervening ball, and many other "not so sure" aspects.
Understanding the basic physics (interaction of the balls) when they are aligned toward the pocket or even another (carom) ball is but one part of the skill-set. Prediction based on judgement is the key to being a successful dead ball player. From there, the tactics of how best to utilize the opportunities as they present is the next level of consideration.


_Rick

jondrums
09-14-2007, 09:58 AM
here's the rule of thumb I use on frozen ball combination shots:
Maximum throw is about 1" per foot.
("Bud Harris" quote printed in Banking with the Beard)

Your cue is probably 58"-60" long (5 feet) so its not too hard to measure out exactly what the maximum throw off the frozen ball line - 5" out at one cue length.

It seems to me that I can get the maximum throw if I use about a 1/4 ball hit with inside english, and a medium/slow speed shot.

The cut angle does about two inches of the work, the slow speed does about another two inches, and the inside english does the last inch (over 60"). Did that just make sense?

Example: I have to throw the dead ball combination 3 inches over the length of my cue. Well that could be done with a 1/4 ball cut with inside english and a fast speed (fast speed negates some of the throw effect). Or I could do it with a little less cut angle no english and medium speed.

The best way to learn this stuff is to spend about an hour and actually measure out the effects of each parameter (cut angle, speed, english). Honestly that hour will be one of the most valuable practice hours you have this year - it was for me!

I have found that draw and follow don't really effect the combination angle - BUT on rare days when I'm really in stroke, I can effect the path of the first ball a little with transfered draw or follow while still making the deadball!

Once you have a really full understanding of two ball fozen combinations, you can use the same theory with three and more ball combinations.

Jon
ps. I've never seen anything like this system in print - anyone have any sources that talk in-depth about this stuff?

Kevin
09-16-2007, 01:27 AM
ps. I've never seen anything like this system in print - anyone have any sources that talk in-depth about this stuff?

It's one of the Dark Arts of playing. Beyond Ray Martin's 99 critical shots, I would consult Byrne's books and videos, and not overlook standard trick shots.

Trick shots give you a practical (and fun) lesson in throws, caroms, etc. And some that show balls automagically clearing the path before a ball emerges from the pack will open your eyes to some interesting possibilities. Specifically I am referring to understanding what even a small gap between balls can do. Might even recommend Joe Tucker's racking secrets materials.

arsenius
09-16-2007, 07:51 AM
It's one of the Dark Arts of playing. Beyond Ray Martin's 99 critical shots, I would consult Byrne's books and videos, and not overlook standard trick shots.

Trick shots give you a practical (and fun) lesson in throws, caroms, etc. And some that show balls automagically clearing the path before a ball emerges from the pack will open your eyes to some interesting possibilities. Specifically I am referring to understanding what even a small gap between balls can do. Might even recommend Joe Tucker's racking secrets materials.
I hate trick shots. Every time someone tries to show me one my eyes glaze over. But that is the best reason for learning some I've ever heard. Next time someone shows me a trick maybe my ears will perk up a little more.:)

Pushout
09-16-2007, 09:32 AM
I hate trick shots. Every time someone tries to show me one my eyes glaze over. But that is the best reason for learning some I've ever heard. Next time someone shows me a trick maybe my ears will perk up a little more.:)

Bob Byrne's books have several trick shots that can be applied to actual play. I used to have a list of shots from the trick shot book that could be used in games. There was one shot in particular, that cleared two balls out of the way of the cue ball and made a called ball in the corner pocket. I don't remember off hand which book it was in or what number shot it was, but I know it dropped a few jaws when I showed it to some people. Even more so when I was able to apply the same principle to a shot in a game and made it;) The principles of the shots are what's important and what allows you to see a shot that someone else might not. I was playing an arch-nemesis one night and called the 6 ball out of the rack. I hit the shot and before the ball came out of the rack my opponent had grabbed his cue and started walking toward the table. The ball slowly rolled to the pocket and he sat back down with a puzzled look on his face. He'd played me safe out of that rack and didn't see the shot.

Patrick Johnson
10-26-2007, 08:20 PM
In this cluster the frozen pairs 2-15 and 7-9 might be dead caroms for the upper and lower corner pockets, but they're both blocked by other balls.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3BHWW3CFcB3FElU3GBjS4HATt3ICxh3KCxy3LKYa4MAtM3OF rk3PEhK@

Fortunately you see what others can't and make them both with a single shot, winning the trophy and the girl.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3BHWW3CFcB3FElU3GBjS4HATt3ICxh3KCxy3LKYa4MAtM3OF rk3PEhK3WFcB3WGbk3dCxh4dYne3fCxy3fBUj3jFrk3jaUd3kE hK3kElE@

Look at the 2-15 pair to see what happens. The key is to recognize that you can make the 15 carom off the 3 and the 2 separately, one after the other, by shooting it toward one or the other. So if you shoot the 15 toward the 3 (away from the 2) it will carom first off the 3 and then off the 2 into the corner, moving the 3 out of the way in the process.

The same thing happens with the 9 off the 11-7 into the other corner.

pj
chgo

Kevin
10-27-2007, 02:28 AM
exactly what I'm talking about. Nice example PJ.

Blackjack
10-27-2007, 06:11 AM
exactly what I'm talking about. Nice example PJ.

Agreed. Great post Pat!

This is a great example of why I love this Straight Pool forum!

dave sutton
10-27-2007, 09:21 AM
i like finding alomst dead balls and stare at the for a min or so. line it up , stare at it again . then play safe and my moron of an opponent shoots the shot bc i looked at it for so long... it dont go hehe :D :D :D

Blackjack
01-28-2010, 12:34 PM
Bumped for those that requested it.

alphadog
01-28-2010, 05:08 PM
Thanks for bumping this as I hadn't seen it.Some good info here.
Thanks Jack

Ron F
02-02-2010, 11:36 PM
Most interesting and informative post I've ever read here. Thanks - to everyone who contributed!

Ron F

JE54
02-05-2010, 07:39 AM
Excellent information, thanks.

3RAILKICK
02-07-2010, 11:02 PM
:scratchhead::clapping::bow-down::shocked2:

Great stuff!!

Re. clearing interferring balls for caroms/is thinking 'last ball impact effect' overly simplifying the underlying principle?

My head hurts-but when I recover-I think I may have learned something very important.

Thanks to all posters-especially Blackjack and P Johnson.

3railkick

how did you see that?