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View Full Version : My 14.1 Break is lacking... but what?


thyme3421
09-27-2007, 01:00 PM
http://cuetable.com/P/?@3AALW4BCYB3CCpA4DCYe4EFCe3FCxe4GBKP3HAMB3IAUe3JF bd4KDnP3LBjP3MEMO4NBJl3OBal2PKXd2TLFb3phwa4XCYe4XC pn4YFCe4YKQo3aCxe3aChk3dAUe3dAUh3eFbd3eHgB2kKXd3kH vY3kOrj3kbJL1kbYs1kObk2uAIQ@

or http://tinyurl.com/34kvco

I can't seem to make a legal break... 1 out of 2 breaks I get this
leave... perfect on the short rail, or at least within an inch or 2 away.
But it's pretty useless when 2 balls from the rack don't touch the
rails...

Any ideas why I'm not getting 2 balls, or even 1 to get to the rail?

-Duane Edwards
Westmont - just west of Chicago
"Good enough to win money, not good enough to make it."

selftaut
09-27-2007, 01:15 PM
You may need to catch the corner ball more full, about 1/4 ball hit, maybe use a tad more spin to create the volocity to get whitey up table off the 2nd rail. Sometimes the equipment will dictate how much speed, spin etc..needed to obtain a good break shot.

mosconiac
09-27-2007, 01:23 PM
You are catching the corner ball too thin...which is a natural response to fear of smashing the rack wide open. Try something between a 1/4 to 1/2 ball hit with less spin than you are using now. Your initial CB position is fine.

3andstop
09-27-2007, 02:16 PM
Take some extra time to examine the last row of balls. You would be surprised how just a little space will effect your break.

Next try to use a little extra RH (in your picture) english. I actually make the cue ball ever so slightly masse into the rack, kind of like a bowler bending into the pins, I make the cue ball bend away from the rack ever so slightly just as it approaches.

If you can't do the latter, at least be sure the last row of balls are solidly frozen.

thyme3421
09-27-2007, 03:04 PM
You are catching the corner ball too thin...which is a natural response to fear of smashing the rack wide open. Try something between a 1/4 to 1/2 ball hit with less spin than you are using now. Your initial CB position is fine.

I haven't had a chance to go out and mess with this yet, but I think you hit it right on the head when you mention fear of smashing the rack wide open. I barely touch the rack...
What was confusing me is I was getting perfect position.

So a little thicker, with less english, and a little firmer hit. I'll mess around with it next time I'm at a table.
Mind if I ask WHY less english though?

By the way, it's a 9 foot table... not that it makes a difference.

Thanks to everyone for the advice/thoughts

mosconiac
09-27-2007, 07:02 PM
Mind if I ask WHY less english though?
In order for the CB to follow the path you illustrated...considering you only grazed the pack...I'm predicting you are spinning the hell out of the CB. The thicker hit I'm proposing will already make the CB try to follow that same path so less spin is needed. Hope that made sense.

EDIT: I decided to throw up a cuetable so it might make more sense.
http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AALW4BCYB3CCpA4DCYe4EFCe3FCxe4GBKP3HAMB3IAUe3JF bd4KDnP3LBjP3MEMO4NBJl3OBal2QJJV2RIcW2lJJV3lHWX3lL xn3lbhK1lbYv1lPpr2mIcW3mHGQ3mQnk3mbhs1mcGO1mOSk2qb HyThe_red_line__represents_your_current_thin_hit_o n_the_pack_with_a_lot_of_spin_to_carry_it_around_o n_the_"textbook"_break_path.&ZZ2rHOEThe_blue_line__represents_the_thicker_hit_o n_the_pack_I'm_proposing_with_less_spin_to_carry_i t_around_on_the_"textbook"_break_path.&ZZ@

Bob Jewett
09-28-2007, 08:23 AM
... Mind if I ask WHY less english though?...
More side spin makes aiming more difficult, especially on long, soft shots like this where the cloth and spin can have maximum effect. The classic break only barely misses the head pocket -- the diagrams so far show the cue ball stopping on the head rail a diamond from the pocket. I think that won't work most of the time on new cloth.

thyme3421
09-28-2007, 12:59 PM
In order for the CB to follow the path you illustrated...considering you only grazed the pack...I'm predicting you are spinning the hell out of the CB. The thicker hit I'm proposing will already make the CB try to follow that same path so less spin is needed. Hope that made sense.




Ok... that makes sense when it's explained a little. It made sense when you said it, I just couldn't figure out why... kind of like writer's block.. stroke block.. err something

I had a chance to go out and play a bit... I tried some top right and bottom right english with various speeds... still wasn't able to get the balls to the cushion.

I'll try a little harder stroke and about a 1/2 tip english... but a 1/4 to 1/2 ball hit on the corner ball... see what happens there.

Thanks again

curly
09-28-2007, 04:36 PM
Duane, I think it's a combination of many factors to achieve a good opening break in straight pool. One of the most important items IMO is allow both corner balls to return back into the original rack position. Also placing the cueball on the head rail as you show in your cue table is right on! You may want to experiment with moving the cueball closer to the headspot and hitting the corner ball about 1/4 with very little RH english. I think the more english that is applied to the cue ball on the break allows the corner object balls to spin away from the rack allowing a fairly good shot for the incoming player. So, I think it's placement of the cueball, the amount of hit on the corner object ball in the rack and english and of course speed. I place the cueball about 6 inches to the right of the head spot. Hope this helps.

Curly

kildegirl
09-28-2007, 11:09 PM
Duane, I think it's a combination of many factors to achieve a good opening break in straight pool. One of the most important items IMO is allow both corner balls to return back into the original rack position. Also placing the cueball on the head rail as you show in your cue table is right on! You may want to experiment with moving the cueball closer to the headspot and hitting the corner ball about 1/4 with very little RH english. I think the more english that is applied to the cue ball on the break allows the corner object balls to spin away from the rack allowing a fairly good shot for the incoming player. So, I think it's placement of the cueball, the amount of hit on the corner object ball in the rack and english and of course speed. I place the cueball about 6 inches to the right of the head spot. Hope this helps.

Curly why not hit the rack straight on with power

selftaut
09-29-2007, 04:08 AM
why not hit the rack straight on with power

Because the opening break in straight pool you must either call a ball to a pocket or play safe having 2 balls and the cb hit a rail for a legal safety.

kildegirl
09-29-2007, 03:04 PM
Because the opening break in straight pool you must either call a ball to a pocket or play safe having 2 balls and the cb hit a rail for a legal safety. THEN PLAY SAFE AND HAVE TWO BALLS AND THE CUE BALL HIT A RAIL.

thyme3421
10-01-2007, 11:05 AM
Holy crap... 1/8 of a ball makes such a huge difference!!

I'm still getting a perfect safety leave... I'm aiming with less english but still 3 o'clock... I aim to hit as much of the corner ball as I can, and the 2 balls go out, then back into the rack with no questions asked... sometimes the opposite corner ball doesn't get all the way back to the rack and ends up being a nice break ball... but I'm satisfied with the new break. Yey!!

On a further note... I made my first 25 ball run last night, and it felt pretty damn good.
This was not off the break... it was mid rack, then I transitioned into a 2nd rack, then a third... rattled a 7 ball about 4 or 5 into the rack, and that was the 26th ball.

Thanks guys

thyme3421
10-01-2007, 11:12 AM
THEN PLAY SAFE AND HAVE TWO BALLS AND THE CUE BALL HIT A RAIL.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, I'm not the expert...

but on the break you have to have 2 ball, and the CB hit the rail.... any other regular shot you have to have SOMETHING hit at least 1 rail, AFTER the CB and Object Ball touch.


So on the break... in order to call (consistantly) 7 ball in corner pocket, is extremely difficult to do... thus... many 14.1 players play a safety on the first stroke of the game. Plus it's a little more difficult to run a rack if you have 13 balls stuck to one another.... rather than spread across the entire table, as if you were to smash the rack like a regular 8ball break.

Does that help/make sense Kildegirl?

selftaut
10-01-2007, 11:51 AM
Holy crap... 1/8 of a ball makes such a huge difference!!

I'm still getting a perfect safety leave... I'm aiming with less english but still 3 o'clock... I aim to hit as much of the corner ball as I can, and the 2 balls go out, then back into the rack with no questions asked... sometimes the opposite corner ball doesn't get all the way back to the rack and ends up being a nice break ball... but I'm satisfied with the new break. Yey!!

On a further note... I made my first 25 ball run last night, and it felt pretty damn good.
This was not off the break... it was mid rack, then I transitioned into a 2nd rack, then a third... rattled a 7 ball about 4 or 5 into the rack, and that was the 26th ball.

Thanks guys

Thats great news thyme, about 3 o'clock is what I like as well. Congrats on your 25 ball run! next stop is 50!

Ignore kidlegirl, she/he is being a wise arss.

OneArmed
10-01-2007, 12:23 PM
I'm a right handed shooter (most of the time), but I usually start with the CB on the left corner of the head string, near to the above illustration just on the opposite side, and use a 1/4 tip of top, and 1/4 tip of right and make about a 1/3rd ball hit.

Is that unusual for a righty to shoot from the left side, or is that just one of my weird habits?.

Last night I fouled twice on the break due to too soft of a hit, and I was giving a 55 ball spot in a race to 100, so that -4 ended up hurting pretty bad lol

thyme3421
10-02-2007, 08:46 AM
I'm a right handed shooter (most of the time), but I usually start with the CB on the left corner of the head string, near to the above illustration just on the opposite side, and use a 1/4 tip of top, and 1/4 tip of right and make about a 1/3rd ball hit.

Is that unusual for a righty to shoot from the left side, or is that just one of my weird habits?.

Last night I fouled twice on the break due to too soft of a hit, and I was giving a 55 ball spot in a race to 100, so that -4 ended up hurting pretty bad lol

ouch... -4 on the breaks, That's what was happening with me though. Your break sounds interesting... but I think it all boils down to whatever is most comfortable for you.


Thats great news thyme, about 3 o'clock is what I like as well. Congrats on your 25 ball run! next stop is 50!

Ignore kidlegirl, she/he is being a wise arss.

Thanks! It felt pretty good. I've been working on transitioning from rack to rack, finding the key ball and if there isn't one right away breaking the rack up to create a key break ball...
It surprises people when they see me hit the break ball at medium speed, instead of just blasting it into the pocket. A softer hit usually rewards in a better break up of the rack... at least in my experience