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View Full Version : APA Safety situation, 8-ball


thyme3421
10-17-2007, 12:21 PM
http://CueTable.com/P/?@2HUvg2ORdf2PMvc@

You're stripes... hill hill... it's APA so this guy can foul all night
long... he just gave you Ball in hand for the 3rd time in a row... he's
pushed the 15 into the 8 so it's closer and closer to the pocket... What
do you do?

tomorrow I'll post with what I did.

selftaut
10-17-2007, 12:23 PM
you call a stalemate and start the game over, look up in the rules for a stalemate, if I remember correctly its either 3 or 4 times BIH in a row and it becomes a stalemate.

Jude Rosenstock
10-17-2007, 12:31 PM
http://CueTable.com/P/?@2HUvg2ORdf2PMvc@

You're stripes... hill hill... it's APA so this guy can foul all night
long... he just gave you Ball in hand for the 3rd time in a row... he's
pushed the 15 into the 8 so it's closer and closer to the pocket... What
do you do?

tomorrow I'll post with what I did.


I cannot see how this isn't going to be a multi-inning solution. I mean, there are some ridiculous shots here but the correct play is to create a situation where you can drive your ball out while leave it safe on the 8ball (if it's kissed up against the 8-ball, that should be pretty safe). Even then, you're taking your chances.

Assuming you have two good 7s and the 8ball has gotten very close to the corner pocket, I might consider restarting the game, especially if I'm the one who broke.

Shawn Armstrong
10-17-2007, 12:38 PM
you call a stalemate and start the game over, look up in the rules for a stalemate, if I remember correctly its either 3 or 4 times BIH in a row and it becomes a stalemate.
This isn't correct. The rules for stalemate are that both players are refusing to take the ball in hand foul. If both parties are just snugging the balls up, it's still game on. It USED to be that 3 consecutive passes by each player was a stalemate, but that changed years ago.

If this was your solution, thyme, you got the rule wrong.

tigerallenyim
10-17-2007, 12:38 PM
Yep. We had that come up two weeks ago between a 2 and a 7. Stalemate was called. The situation was much more drastic then the one shown above. The balls were dead frozen and a ton closer to the pocket.
Both decided very early not to make it an arguement, and the captain asked for a stalemate.

UWPoolGod1
10-17-2007, 12:39 PM
Depends on how good of a player he is. I might line up a straight shot past the 8, banking the 15 out of there and playing a stop shot tieing the cueball on the 8ball. No cut shot and he would have to use english on the cueball to kick one rail at it. Lots of factors could make him miss that one, dead rail, too much/not enough english, etc. Make sure you bank the 15 with enough speed to get next to the side pocket.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@2HUWg1OUqC2PTIP2kTIP2kQWk1kUiD1kUqB@

Southpaw
10-17-2007, 12:39 PM
I would put the cue ball right on top of the 8 and bank the 15 two rails (end to end) and try and pull the cue ball back so that if he wanted to kick at the 8 then he could. I would want the 15 to come back down so that if he did kick and miss, the 15 would be near the corner opposite the 8. Yeah its a gamble, but Im gonna go down swinging or make him swing. JMO.

Southpaw

Shawn Armstrong
10-17-2007, 12:46 PM
From the APA Manual, page 49. In the FOULS section:

"In the unlikely event that a game should ever become stalemated, meaning that neither player wants or can make use of ball-in-hand, then the balls are reracked, the same player breaks and the innings for the stalemated game are crossed off the scoresheet."

kicker
10-17-2007, 01:06 PM
The more distance between the 15 and the 8, the better, but it's a delicate shot so don't overdo it. Tip placement is critical. Ideally, you could leave it near the corner or side pocket.
Repeat if necessary. He's bound to leave the 15 open eventually or go for a bank on the 8.
Not nudging the 8 is more important than freezing to it.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@2HUvg2ORdf2PTQF2jRdf2jRMj1jCdE2kTQF2kSSO2kTpQ@2H Uvg2ORlf2PUGL2jRdf2jREk1jEtp2kUGL2kTQQ2kTQR@

Edit: Page 2 might be a little simpler. Straight stop shot leaving a kick shot on the 8 and only a thin cut bank if he wants to tie the balls up again.

juanbond
10-17-2007, 01:07 PM
I'd probably do something along these lines... (three pages on the Wei table, second one is an accidental duplicate)

1. Cut the fifteen softly to get it to rest against the eight as shown.
2. Hopefully your opponent gives you ball in hand, and if the layout remains undisturbed...
3. Bank the fifteen into the middle of the table, leaving the cue frozen (or near frozen) to the eight, but slightly behind it (between the eight and the nearest corner). Hopefully he tries the english kick and fails.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@2HVti2OSbg2PNtd2jSbg2jTQf2jTpW2jTpX2kNtd2kPpj2kP pm2kPxd@2HVti2OSbg2PNtd2jSbg2jTQf2jTpW2jTpX2kNtd2k Ppj2kPpm2kPxd@2HVti2OThY2PWqy2jThY2jSbk1jIbs2kWqy2 kVMM2kXAU@

Koop
10-17-2007, 01:13 PM
The more distance between the 15 and the 8, the better, but it's a delicate shot so don't overdo it. Tip placement is critical. Ideally, you could leave it near the corner or side pocket.
Repeat if necessary. He's bound to leave the 15 open eventually or go for a bank on the 8.
Not nudging the 8 is more important than freezing to it.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@2HUvg2ORdf2PTQF2jRdf2jRMj1jCdE2kTQF2kSSO2kTpQ@

The only problems I see with this is that it is very difficult to make them separate and leave the cueball where you are showing and also that it opens up a fairly easy one rail kick at the 8.
Based on your screen name I am surprised you didn't account for this :)

kicker
10-17-2007, 01:20 PM
The only problems I see with this is that it is very difficult to make them separate and leave the cueball where you are showing and also that it opens up a fairly easy one rail kick at the 8.
Based on your screen name I am surprised you didn't account for this :)

Nobody can kick but me! :p

Seriously... It's a reverse english kick. I'll give most players that until they start making them consistently.

Koop
10-17-2007, 01:22 PM
Nobody can kick but me! :p

Seriously... It's a reverse english kick. I'll give most players that until they start making them consistently.

Ok, fair enough ;)

Koop - made one Monday night :D

9ballrun
10-17-2007, 01:32 PM
I would probaly take cb in hand and place it close to the 8 and hit the 15 with a little bottom and a lot of right. That way the 15 should come out to around the spot and the cb should travel to the long rail and up table to the other long rail. If this was the hill match I think that I would know the table speed well enough to make it stop close to that rail.

memikey
10-17-2007, 02:23 PM
Seriously... It's a reverse english kick. I'll give most players that until they start making them consistently.

Yep....especially if you position the cue ball so the eight is hampering easy cueing to apply the english to the necessary side.

Cory in DC
10-17-2007, 02:38 PM
If you're feeling sporty and you're worried about the kick, something like this might work (the path of the 15 is a bit off, but that's not as important as the 8):

http://CueTable.com/P/?@2HUne2ORUd2PTnD2cUne2cWCo2cbiT3cEVA3cEVA3cCan2jR Ud2jREp4jJll4jQCQ2kTnD2kSSN2kTIT2kTIT@

BVal
10-17-2007, 02:40 PM
Nobody can kick but me! :p

Seriously... It's a reverse english kick. I'll give most players that until they start making them consistently.
Unfortunately, they only have to do it once. :)

thyme3421
10-17-2007, 03:34 PM
you call a stalemate and start the game over, look up in the rules for a stalemate, if I remember correctly its either 3 or 4 times BIH in a row and it becomes a stalemate.

There was no stalemate called...

I think no one thought of that option at the time, but I wouldn't have gone for that if the option was presented anyway.

- goes down swingin'

dabarbr
10-17-2007, 04:46 PM
I have found that in this situation it might take a number of turns to position my object ball so that I can knock his ball to the other rail past the pocket and leave my ball about a half inch off the rail allowing me to wedge the cue ball between the rail and my ball.

This will take the far end of the table away from him. From this position there is only a couple of ways to hit the 8 ball and both are extremely difficult.

I actually used to practice this situation until I got pretty proficient at it.

alstl
10-17-2007, 05:10 PM
With ball in hand I would double kiss the 15, popping it off the rail and leaving him above the 8 ball with no shot.

thyme3421
10-18-2007, 03:14 PM
Since it's tomorrow...
here's what I did--

http://CueTable.com/P/?@2HUvg2ORdf2PXPg2jRdf2jRtl2jTwl2kXPg2kQfR1kCSk1kb JL3kKub1uAIT@


My ball was blocking his... he tried a 1 rail kick into the corner and ended up parking the 8 in front of that pocket.

I was able to do a cross corner bank and finish the table from there.

86 inning match (seriously.... tons of safeties throughout the entire match), 3 racks, I'm not going to be changing skill levels for a WHILE!! LOL





I'm never gonna be a 6 haha

JoeW
10-18-2007, 04:50 PM
http://CueTable.com/P/?@2HTpd2OBlA2PSrM@
Jack up and use soft above center draw. Worked two out of three times. The time it did not work the CB was near the long rail and the 15 went a little too far up table leaving an easier kick or a potential safe for the opponent.

ez2h8
10-18-2007, 08:33 PM
Those are some creative ways out! In matches like this, it's often the most creative and experienced player that wins. But you need to know what your opponent is capable of before doing something like this. Strong kicker can make or break a game. I hate calling stalemate too.

Good stuff
ez

dabarbr
10-18-2007, 10:42 PM
I don't like seperating the balls like some of the suggestions here unless I'm going to leave my ball in play near some pocket. I would like to guarentee myself a good shot no matter what he did with the eight.

Your opponant can leave you with a low percentage shot in most cases just by leaving you on the rail and distance. This lets him back into the game. With patience an experienced player will win this game most of the times.