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veilside81
10-18-2007, 02:14 AM
Hi all.. Yesterday on a league match I was watching a guy did a jump shot in which he pocketed the object ball while the cueball jumped on the rail and remained there without touching the wood of the table.
The match was on a Brunswick GC IV.

The thing here is : Would you call a foul as if the cueball jumped out of the table or you would let the guy shoot from where the cueball stopped?:confused: ;)

Hail Mary Shot
10-18-2007, 02:17 AM
Hi all.. Yesterday on a league match I was watching a guy did a jump shot in which he pocketed the object ball while the cueball jumped on the rail and remained there without touching the wood of the table.
The match was on a Brunswick GC IV.

The thing here is : Would you call a foul as if the cueball jumped out of the table or you would let the guy shoot from where the cueball stopped?:confused: ;)

it's out of the playing area, much like basketball ! :D :D :D

I call it out of bounds or foul.

asn130
10-18-2007, 02:23 AM
if the cueball had come to rest on the playing bed, i believe it would have been a good shot.

veilside81
10-18-2007, 02:25 AM
The cueball stopped on the cloth which I consider the playing area without touching the wood.. to me it is not a scratch..

crappoolguy
10-18-2007, 02:33 AM
I'm sure that's a foul...

Fore Rail
10-18-2007, 03:01 AM
Foul

Ball is off the bed of the table.

Kimmo
10-18-2007, 03:04 AM
it's a foul if it doesn't come to rest on the bed of the table.

It's not a foul if it jumps on top of the cushions and even rolls there..if I remember right, it only becomes a foul then if it touches anything there that is not a permanent fixture of the table....so if it hits a chalk and falls on the table...it's a foul....if it just rolls there and then falls down...it's ok.

cheers,
Kimmo

memikey
10-18-2007, 03:13 AM
Hi all.. Yesterday on a league match I was watching a guy did a jump shot in which he pocketed the object ball while the cueball jumped on the rail and remained there without touching the wood of the table.
The match was on a Brunswick GC IV.

The thing here is : Would you call a foul as if the cueball jumped out of the table or you would let the guy shoot from where the cueball stopped?:confused: ;)

In all major rule sets, in particular WPA and BCA it is specifically pointed out that any ball coming to rest on top of the cushion is considered to be a ball which has been jumped off the table.

If a ball comes to rest on top of the cushion it is of course irrelevant whether or not the ball in question is or isn't "touching the wood of the table".

Patrick Johnson
10-18-2007, 06:37 AM
http://home.bca-pool.com/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=54#General%20Rules

BCA GENERAL RULES OF POCKET BILLIARDS

3.28 BALLS JUMPED OFF TABLE
Balls coming to rest other than on the bed of the table after a stroke (on the cushion top, rail surface, floor, etc.) are considered jumped balls. Balls may bounce on the cushion tops and rails of the table in play without being jumped balls if they return to the bed of the table under their own power and without touching anything not a part of the table.

[NOTE: I underlined "and rails" because it was a detail mentioned in this thread.]

pj
chgo

MasterEye
10-18-2007, 08:03 AM
Hi all.. Yesterday on a league match I was watching a guy did a jump shot in which he pocketed the object ball while the cueball jumped on the rail and remained there without touching the wood of the table.
The match was on a Brunswick GC IV.

The thing here is : Would you call a foul as if the cueball jumped out of the table or you would let the guy shoot from where the cueball stopped?:confused: ;)

Not a foul.

Hail Mary Shot
10-18-2007, 08:19 AM
take note of the term "ball in play". when ball in play, where is the ball usually located? inside or outside?

memikey
10-18-2007, 08:42 AM
Obviously the answer isn't yet clear to some.

The applicable rule in both WPA and BCA is Rule 3.28 which very clearly defines it as a foul if the ball comes to rest in the described position.

Therefore unless the "league" to which the first poster refers has some adapted rule set which specifically contradicts Rule 3.28 there cannot possibly be any serious doubt that this is a foul and ball in hand to the opponent.

If anyone who still thinks the described scenario isn't a foul under rule 3.28 would care to explain the reasons why they are of that opinion, I'm sure lots of us would be keen to learn:)

juggler314
10-18-2007, 09:05 AM
it's a foul if it doesn't come to rest on the bed of the table.

It's not a foul if it jumps on top of the cushions and even rolls there..if I remember right, it only becomes a foul then if it touches anything there that is not a permanent fixture of the table....so if it hits a chalk and falls on the table...it's a foul....if it just rolls there and then falls down...it's ok.

cheers,
Kimmo

So if that happens are you allowed to grab the chalk and move it out of the way? Usually when this happens the ball is rolling pretty slowly...

The other day in league I hit a ball and it popped off the table bed straight at a rail. But it had so much backspin on it it actually spun back on - that was the first time I've seen that happen. Seen balls roll down a rail plenty though.

Kimmo
10-18-2007, 09:07 AM
So if that happens are you allowed to grab the chalk and move it out of the way? Usually when this happens the ball is rolling pretty slowly...


yes if you get the chalk out before the ball hits it or anything else that might be there on top of the rail (not that I could think of anything),it's all good

9 on the snap
10-18-2007, 09:26 AM
What if the ball comes to rest on the chalk?

Is that a foul too?

Patrick Johnson
10-18-2007, 10:11 AM
If a ball comes to rest on top of the cushion it is of course irrelevant whether or not the ball in question is or isn't "touching the wood of the table".

In BCA rules (see my quote - and I think these are also WPA rules) it's irrelevant anyway. The ball can touch any part of the cushion or rail and not be a foul if it returns to the playing area.

But if it touches anything not a part of the table (like chalk, the stick, the player), then it's a foul whether or not it returns to the playing area.

pj
chgo

memikey
10-20-2007, 12:58 AM
In BCA rules (see my quote - and I think these are also WPA rules) it's irrelevant anyway. The ball can touch any part of the cushion or rail and not be a foul if it returns to the playing area.

But if it touches anything not a part of the table (like chalk, the stick, the player), then it's a foul whether or not it returns to the playing area.

pj
chgo

Yes obviously Patrick, that's true and crystal clear, but we weren't dealing with any scenario where the ball came to rest back on the bed of the table........my post was in specific reply to the poster who said the ball came to rest on top of the cushion.

When he brought up the part about the "wood" in that context , am pretty sure he didn't have in mind any question about the significance or otherwise of whether or not the ball had hit the wood before coming to rest. That aspect didn't come into his equation, he was only describing the position in which the ball came to rest and making it clear that it was on the "cloth" not the "wood".

In plainer terms the question he was effectively posing was whether the cloth covered section on top of the cushion (as opposed to the wood part) might be considered part of the "bed" of the table, to which the answer is of course a resounding no. When I said in reply that the wood was irrelevant I meant irrelevant in the sense that no part of the top of the cushion, whether wood or cloth, is part of the bed of the table.

Hail Mary Shot
10-20-2007, 02:45 AM
logically speaking, it would be awkward if it were legal or play as is on the cushion. how would you play the next shot then?

Patrick Johnson
10-20-2007, 10:43 AM
memikey:
If a ball comes to rest on top of the cushion it is of course irrelevant whether or not the ball in question is or isn't "touching the wood of the table".

mepat:
In BCA rules (see my quote - and I think these are also WPA rules) it's irrelevant anyway. The ball can touch any part of the cushion or rail and not be a foul if it returns to the playing area.

memikey:
Yes obviously Patrick, that's true and crystal clear

Well, it might have been crystal clear until you said "if a ball comes to rest on top of the cushion", which implies that distinction is relevant to that part of the rule. So I re-clarified to protect you from being misunderstood.

You're welcome.

pj
chgo