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crappoolguy
11-29-2007, 08:32 PM
Put the CB about 10 inches away from the short rail, the object in the jaws of the far corner pocket and see how far you can draw back! I tried this today and I just wanna see how close I am to the average AZer. :)



PS: I got about 5 and a half feet of draw.

I rack balls
11-29-2007, 08:35 PM
I think I could get back to the end rail and then some on a good day on a 9 footer...........depends on the cloth........ new cloth maybe 7 tables....... :D

Eric.

Craig Fales
11-29-2007, 08:39 PM
I've been able to draw back the length of the table and back out just past the side pocket...

av84fun
11-29-2007, 08:42 PM
Put the CB about 10 inches away from the short rail, the object in the jaws of the far corner pocket and see how far you can draw back! I tried this today and I just wanna see how close I am to the average AZer. :)



PS: I got about 5 and a half feet of draw.

Run the set up by me again. Say I'm standing at the head rail and have the CB 10 inches off the head rail on the LEFT side of the table shooting for a straight in on an OB in the jaws of the lower RIGHT corner?

Is that what you mean?

Thanks

crappoolguy
11-29-2007, 08:45 PM
Run the set up by me again. Say I'm standing at the head rail and have the CB 10 inches off the head rail on the LEFT side of the table shooting for a straight in on an OB in the jaws of the lower RIGHT corner?

Is that what you mean?

Thanks



Yeah, that's what I meant, sorry :) I'm really trying to work on my draw at the moment it used to be better a month or two ago but I'm slowly getting it back. :)

Flex
11-29-2007, 11:02 PM
Yeah, that's what I meant, sorry :) I'm really trying to work on my draw at the moment it used to be better a month or two ago but I'm slowly getting it back. :)


Sounds like you're lookin' for action.... :rolleyes:

trustyrusty
11-29-2007, 11:14 PM
I SUCK at drawing.....the inlaws won't even let me play Pictionary at family get-togethers anymore. Probably has something to do with me always including boobies or peckers to show gender??!!!

Robertduke
11-29-2007, 11:15 PM
I SUCK at drawing.....the inlaws won't even let me play Pictionary at family get-togethers anymore. Probably has something to do with me always including boobies or peckers to show gender??!!!
hahaha I needed that laugh..

jon21588
11-29-2007, 11:16 PM
I did this on a seven foot valley with nappy cloth and the mudball a few months ago. I was about 5 inches from the short rail and drew it back to the rail I shot it on with a house cue. I thought it was pretty good for the conditions. I don't have a 9' to try it on though.

Zirroe
11-29-2007, 11:23 PM
i can draw full table. I just got back from tournament and my opponent hung the 2 ball in the top left corner and the 3 was on the bottom rail about one diamond out the cue ball was 2 inches from the bottom rail about a half diamond away from the side. Now there was too much traffic to go 3 rails. I know my stroke pretty well and i knew i was capable of drawing it that far. So i went for it and got the cue ball to zip back all the way and bounce a few inches off the bottom rail, leaving me perfect on the 3 ball. I ran out that rack from there............too bad I still lost the match

MasterClass
11-29-2007, 11:24 PM
I could make draw shots very well and easily too. I was told that is was because of my predator shaft having the ability to produce alot of spin.

Does anyone else notice the same?

trustyrusty
11-29-2007, 11:30 PM
I could make draw shots very well and easily too. I was told that is was because of my predator shaft having the ability to produce alot of spin.

Does anyone else notice the same?

you think that's something...I've heard Cuetec's SST shaft is incredible - look at some of the other threads here :rolleyes:

arsenius
11-29-2007, 11:35 PM
I can normally draw at least a full table length (9 foot) easily from about 6 diamonds away. I can't draw much further no matter how far I try! Sometimes if I'm hitting them good 1 and 1/4 table lengths.:)

Zirroe
11-29-2007, 11:37 PM
I could make draw shots very well and easily too. I was told that is was because of my predator shaft having the ability to produce alot of spin.

Does anyone else notice the same?

I use to play with a predator and it does help, I now play with a regular shaft and my stroke is developed enough that I can juice the ball with whatever english I desire. But there are some people that just cant produce the stroke well enough and the predator technology does aid in it. But a local pro in my area (Dave Hemmah) plays with a predator and he does the craziest stroke shots Ive seen, which I dont think can be done without a predator

PoolBum
11-29-2007, 11:45 PM
Put the CB about 10 inches away from the short rail, the object in the jaws of the far corner pocket and see how far you can draw back!

Hey, I'll be happy if I pocket that object ball! :D

poolhustler
11-30-2007, 12:17 AM
I can draw a diamond or two on a good day..........

Russ

poolhustler
11-30-2007, 12:18 AM
Oppppsss..........

Forgot this...........:D

Russ

av84fun
11-30-2007, 12:35 AM
I've been able to draw back the length of the table and back out just past the side pocket...

On a 9' table? That's 12 diamonds of draw (actually a little more since the CB is traveling on a diagonal...with a an original 7 diamond spearation between CB and OB.

WOW...that's a championship draw stroke...congratulations!

Regards,
Jim

Varney Cues
11-30-2007, 12:38 AM
How about 2 full table length's and then some?:eek:
Not me...Larry Nevel. Like Grady say's..."he's got a stoke thats not even due out until the year 2010!":D

av84fun
11-30-2007, 12:41 AM
I understand where you are coming from in seeking to get a feeling for how your draw stroke compares with others...but the more I think about it the more I realize that any such comparisons will be pretty flawed and therefore, possibly not all that useful for you.

The issues are how significantly your CB's age and therefore, size and weight might vary from others...and your tip and shaft vs. others etc.

I think you will end up with an apples to bananas comparison.

IMHO, 5 1/2 feet from a 7 diamond + separation is a pretty sporty draw strorke.

Ironically enough...in a tip comparison at JOBs just 2 days ago a TOP road player sucked the same shot almost back to the head rail but no more...after several tries with a Moori medium and a LePro medium.

Regards,
Jim

Deadon
11-30-2007, 12:44 AM
To the end rail w/o a problem.

Jude Rosenstock
11-30-2007, 12:44 AM
Anything beyond 1 1/2 is a stretch for me. I'm really hoping it doesn't come up any time soon!

Hail Mary Shot
11-30-2007, 01:12 AM
Depends on the cloth and cuetip. used a common maple shaft with elkmaster tip on a slow cloth, full table length and a few inches draw. on a fast cloth, well I haven't tried it coz it's not necessary to draw that much. but I believe almost or around 2 table length draw if I were to try.

I rack balls
11-30-2007, 01:28 AM
Can you make this???

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3Hadg1PaMV1kaMV1kaER3kYfQ1kXpG@

Big C
11-30-2007, 01:32 AM
I also like practicing drawing back varying distances in between and also if i can draw back in a straight line so that the CB comes back and touches the cuetip. To me having control of the short distances you can draw back and direction control is far more powerful than being able to draw the length of the table. Given the choice of draw vs follow, I prefer to follow. But that's only if I get out of line. Under ideal circumstances I will use the natural angle to get to the next shot so that my only variable to control is speed.

midnightpulp
11-30-2007, 01:35 AM
Requisite naming of bad conditions to satisfy my ego :)

With a Players cue, elkmaster tip, 25 year old Centennials, very shoddy beat up felt, I can get about 8 and 1/2 feet.

But, it's not a supereasy shot to hit consistently for me. I frequently bounce into the long rail or the side rail. Feels good when you hit it right.

I also think this is a good practice shot to build up your stroke.

Oh yeah, and make sure the balls are polished. A week ago, I had trouble drawing a 4 diamond length shot back 4 to 5 feet (I posted about said shot as well). Bought some polish, and voila, the draw stroke I thought I had lost suddenly returned.

5 1/2 is pretty damn good. This is not an easy shot.

arsenius
11-30-2007, 01:54 AM
Can you make this???

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3Hadg1PaMV1kaMV1kaER3kYfQ1kXpG@
I've made that shot from the string twice for the cash (about $6!). I was the only one who did it, among a group of us trying. No way though shooting from the pocket!

I practice a lot of draw shots from 2nd diamond to 2nd diamond, and scratch that way all the time (I consider it a good thing when it happens, very straight).

softshot
11-30-2007, 02:28 AM
I read a quote online a few months ago might have even been on this forum.

"It doesn't matter if you can draw the ball 20 feet, can you draw it 2 feet when you need to draw it 2 feet."

not my line, but I like it

poolplayer2093
11-30-2007, 02:36 AM
Put the CB about 10 inches away from the short rail, the object in the jaws of the far corner pocket and see how far you can draw back! I tried this today and I just wanna see how close I am to the average AZer. :)



PS: I got about 5 and a half feet of draw.


That really depends on the speed of the table. how old's the cloth which balls what they weigh. if they're clean. a lot goes into that how far can you draw question if you're trying to compair youself to others

Drawman623
11-30-2007, 04:40 AM
I draw the cue about 20' when trying for maximum power. 10" from the short foot rail on a 9' table, I draw to the head rail then all the way back to the opposite corner on the foot rail to make a 2nd ball. All I can say about that is that I don't have the best stroke in my pool room.

What did Fats call it? "...a million dollar stroke and a nickle head..." Next time, leave a little angle and use the long rail with English.

crappoolguy
11-30-2007, 07:52 AM
That really depends on the speed of the table. how old's the cloth which balls what they weigh. if they're clean. a lot goes into that how far can you draw question if you're trying to compair youself to others




The cloth looks EXTREMLY old, but for some reason plays very fast (this is on a Brunswick GC). The balls are also pretty old and crappy looking (chips, permanent marks, the lot!) and it was done with a house cue with a 13mm tip which is a little large for me. I can't wait to get my Z2! :)

Gregg
11-30-2007, 09:07 AM
Drawing is one of the things I do best.

IMO as you improve, power draw shots are not difficult as in drawing the length of the table. In fact, this is hardly more than a stroke shot using medium speed.

The real skill is controlling a draw shot. Now that takes talent.

poolchic
11-30-2007, 09:21 AM
I know a guy that will bet you he can draw it back farther with his mouth than you can with your cue...he says he will not accept any money if you think he mislead you in anyway....

Drew
11-30-2007, 10:05 AM
I know a guy that will bet you he can draw it back farther with his mouth than you can with your cue...he says he will not accept any money if you think he mislead you in anyway....

It wouldn't be Justin Cone would it?

KMRUNOUT
11-30-2007, 10:37 AM
How about 2 full table length's and then some?:eek:
Not me...Larry Nevel. Like Grady say's..."he's got a stoke thats not even due out until the year 2010!":D
Larry can draw 2 table lengths with the cue ball a table length away!!

Jude Rosenstock
11-30-2007, 10:41 AM
It really depends on how big a crayon I have but I know I can draw more than the length of the poolroom.

Patrick Johnson
11-30-2007, 10:44 AM
MasterClass:
I could make draw shots very well and easily too. I was told that is was because of my predator shaft having the ability to produce alot of spin.

Does anyone else notice the same?

Zirroe:
I use to play with a predator and it does help, I now play with a regular shaft and my stroke is developed enough that I can juice the ball with whatever english I desire. But there are some people that just cant produce the stroke well enough and the predator technology does aid in it. But a local pro in my area (Dave Hemmah) plays with a predator and he does the craziest stroke shots Ive seen, which I dont think can be done without a predator.

It's the magician, not the wand. No cue draws farther or produces more spin than any other.

pj
chgo

Jude Rosenstock
11-30-2007, 10:46 AM
It's the magician, not the wand. No cue draws farther or produces more spin than any other.

pj
chgo


GREAT point. I wonder how far Harry Potter can draw.

RRfireblade
11-30-2007, 11:18 AM
I can double the table on a quick 9' ter.

Hail Mary Shot
11-30-2007, 11:46 AM
It's the magician, not the wand. No cue draws farther or produces more spin than any other.

pj
chgo


is this also true with the broomstick?

Billy_Bob
11-30-2007, 12:00 PM
If I have the tip of my cue in excellent condition (recently scuffed with a sandpaper shaper) and my tip is well chalked (nice even coating all over the tip, especially the sides, hold it up to light and no dark spots)....

[I always keep my tip in excellent condition and chalk well...]

...And I stroke with a very long follow through leaving my tip about a foot and a half past where the cue ball was (in other words, TONS of follow through)...

And I don't use too much speed...

And I hit the ball in the corner dead on (not left or right side of ball)...

Then I can draw the cue ball the length of the table.

Tip condition very important. Chalk around sides of tip very important. Follow through very important. (And don't "kill" the ball with too much speed, slow down!)

poolplayer2093
11-30-2007, 12:03 PM
The cloth looks EXTREMLY old, but for some reason plays very fast (this is on a Brunswick GC). The balls are also pretty old and crappy looking (chips, permanent marks, the lot!) and it was done with a house cue with a 13mm tip which is a little large for me. I can't wait to get my Z2! :)


That z2 is going to take some getting used to. old cloth sometimes plays fast because all the dirt kind of glasses the cloth over (yeah i play on really crap equipment)

i'd try the 314-2 before the z2. going from 13mm to 11.75 is a huge jump. i changed from 12.75 ish to 12.5 and it took some real adjustments

poolchic
11-30-2007, 12:11 PM
It wouldn't be Justin Cone would it?


That's him! I never got to see him do it but it sounded legit to me....

crappoolguy
11-30-2007, 03:10 PM
That z2 is going to take some getting used to. old cloth sometimes plays fast because all the dirt kind of glasses the cloth over (yeah i play on really crap equipment)

i'd try the 314-2 before the z2. going from 13mm to 11.75 is a huge jump. i changed from 12.75 ish to 12.5 and it took some real adjustments



I spend most of my time playing snooker with a 9.75mm tip, and a 13mm feels MASSIVE and really clumsy. Plus my family is pretty bad for money right now and we can only afford to get either the Z-2 or the 314-2. And I DESPSISE playing with large tips so I think it has to be the Z2. :)

olauzon
11-30-2007, 04:06 PM
It really depends on how big a crayon I have but I know I can draw more than the length of the poolroom.

dood, they're talking bout white balls here. 450' isn't all that uncommon if intoxicated me is hitting. average however stays around 5 to 10 tables toxic or not.

pooltchr
11-30-2007, 04:58 PM
The real skill is controlling a draw shot. Now that takes talent.

Absolutely! How far can you draw the ball isn't a relevent question. How well can you control how far you draw the ball...now THAT is a good question.
Steve

crappoolguy
11-30-2007, 05:03 PM
Absolutely! How far can you draw the ball isn't a relevent question. How well can you control how far you draw the ball...now THAT is a good question.
Steve



I know how much control you have over the draw is a lot more important than how far you can draw, I just wanted to see how my stroke compared to the experianced players of AZ.

pooltchr
11-30-2007, 05:07 PM
I know how much control you have over the draw is a lot more important than how far you can draw, I just wanted to see how my stroke compared to the experianced players of AZ.

That's fine...but I've seen players with terrible strokes who could draw the length of the table. The ones who control it best are usually the ones with the best strokes.
Steve

Craig Fales
11-30-2007, 05:08 PM
How about 2 full table length's and then some?:eek:
Not me...Larry Nevel. Like Grady say's..."he's got a stoke thats not even due out until the year 2010!":D
LOLz...I've seen him stroke the bejeesus outta the ball before...

Craig Fales
11-30-2007, 05:12 PM
On a 9' table? That's 12 diamonds of draw (actually a little more since the CB is traveling on a diagonal...with a an original 7 diamond spearation between CB and OB.

WOW...that's a championship draw stroke...congratulations!

Regards,
Jim
I get a bigger woody when I connect with a nice force follow shot down the long rail and snap the CB around to where it was to begin with...

av84fun
12-01-2007, 10:49 PM
It's the magician, not the wand. No cue draws farther or produces more spin than any other.

pj
chgo

I fully agree that the player's stroke is by far the most significant variable but other than that, I disagree.

The most significant stroke variables are accurate tip-to-ball delivery, speed and the related aspect of acceleration at the point of impact More speed/acceration, more spin all other things being equal.

The weight and balance of the cue are meaningful factors in a given player's ability to generate cue tip speed/acceleration.

In addition, if the definition of "cue" includes the tip that is on it, then there would be a MAJOR difference between cues depending on hardness and shape variables.

So, yes, it is mostly the magician but the wand is a SIGNIFICANT variable and they are not nearly all the same.

Regards,
Jim

3andstop
12-01-2007, 11:21 PM
I just tried a power draw shot 10 minutes ago.

I'll post back as soon as the cue ball stops rolling.

av84fun
12-01-2007, 11:29 PM
I just tried a power draw shot 10 minutes ago.

I'll post back as soon as the cue ball stops rolling.

COOL!!! And when I get a chance, I'll tell ya about the time I knocked Evander out in the 3rd round back in.....................................

(-:

HollyWood
12-02-2007, 12:18 AM
Don't stroke harder than is neccessary to produce the desired result and bring the balls to a good position for the next shot. General hard stroking is sometimes followed by good leaves,but is usually luck. Remember too, that it is more difficult to strike the cue ball accurately when you use a hard stroke. Kim's Davenports target pool is good practice. Learn how to draw the ball never going below 1 cue tip below centerball. Artistic Billiards has a (guiness book of records for showing length of draw). In billiards play draw shots at ever opportunity. It is the most important shot in billiards.(not pool) mark

olauzon
12-02-2007, 12:39 AM
eum.. yea, sumthing like that, or the other way around, or above it, or below it. east or west could possibly work, i think? or not. hope this helps.

(kim is good though)

rackem
12-02-2007, 12:50 AM
Not the set up you are talking about. Plus I never saw it. I once heard Keither could draw a ball 7 rails on a bar box.:eek:
I'm not figuring it was the Big ball though

atthecat
12-02-2007, 12:56 AM
I'm a draw player. I'd much rather draw for position than follow. What really helped me with letting my stroke out was not the type of shaft. It was the tip. I switched to Snipers. They are soft and spongy for the first day of two, then they're magic. I like them a lot better than Moori or Kamui tips. I can draw about 15 feet now.

olauzon
12-02-2007, 01:10 AM
I'm a draw player. I can draw about 15 feet now.

i draw 420 feet minimum all the time.

regardless, isn't it more interesting to know width rather than length? it's like high jump where everybody tries to jump high.. try jump wide instead..

softshot
12-02-2007, 02:15 AM
I'm a draw player. I'd much rather draw for position than follow.

Personally I find follow with light outside english gives the most predictable cue ball lines of any shot at least it does for me. too much can go wrong with a draw shot I only shoot them when I have to, or when I end up dead straight and have a leave.

Hail Mary Shot
12-02-2007, 12:11 PM
I fully agree that the player's stroke is by far the most significant variable but other than that, I disagree.

The most significant stroke variables are accurate tip-to-ball delivery, speed and the related aspect of acceleration at the point of impact More speed/acceration, more spin all other things being equal.

The weight and balance of the cue are meaningful factors in a given player's ability to generate cue tip speed/acceleration.

In addition, if the definition of "cue" includes the tip that is on it, then there would be a MAJOR difference between cues depending on hardness and shape variables.

So, yes, it is mostly the magician but the wand is a SIGNIFICANT variable and they are not nearly all the same.

Regards,
Jim

I agree. it's like sayin' who's the player who can maximize or use the full potential of the cue's drawing power, if we were to use player by cue analysis. I think this is a nice thesis, IMO. :rolleyes:

Fatboy
12-02-2007, 12:54 PM
It's fun to see how far you can draw, but it is a useless shot 99.99% of the time in actual play. It also depends on the cloth, the old heavy cloth was alot harder to draw on, 760 is alot easier than 860, so its difficult to compair who can do it best on the interner because of the different conditions, cloth, rails, humidity(big factor) age of cloth, cue etc. Mike Masse or Larry Nevel are probably the favorites off the top of my head,

On 860 I can draw the ball from the short rail down to the other end and then bounce up past the side pocket most of the time on a new Diamond table with good rubber., depending on which cue I use, however when I do draw that far I have no control where the rock is gonna stop, once in a while I'll get it up to the top rail so thats 17' I took away a foot because of the distance between the rock and OB. Its fun, but what is more fun is drawing 3.25' when you need exactly that much draw,

okinawa77
12-02-2007, 05:13 PM
The best I have done it 18 feet (2 table lengths) on a 9 foot table.
I can consistently draw full table on 9 footers, and about 50% consistency on 1.5 table lengths.

I'm still working on the Fast Larry shot with the CB frozen on the head rail and getting full table length draw, but I won't dare try it one handed.

Ktown D
12-02-2007, 06:11 PM
Whew.....I finally got it back past the side pocket.:)

td873
12-02-2007, 06:48 PM
Put the CB about 10 inches away from the short rail, the object in the jaws of the far corner pocket and see how far you can draw back! I tried this today and I just wanna see how close I am to the average AZer. :)
My table: Brunswick Medalist 9'. Simonis 860. Aramith balls (with the measels cue ball).

With the cue ball 2.25" from the rail, I get about this much draw on a straight in shot.
http://CueTable.com/P/?@1AaLP3IAWg4PNUf4kNUf1kaTA4kQOi4kOxe@

Shooting this shot, I get around the table and around a foot from scratching (some 2 feet, some less, but around a foot).
http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AALR1PKGM2UALR2Uadi2Uali2Ucpu1kKGM1kCPK4kawn4kD Qj3kahQ1kUFa1uDCG@

-td

midnightpulp
12-02-2007, 07:19 PM
My table: Brunswick Medalist 9'. Simonis 860. Aramith balls (with the measels cue ball).

With the cue ball 2.25" from the rail, I get about this much draw on a straight in shot.
http://CueTable.com/P/?@1AaLP3IAWg4PNUf4kNUf1kaTA4kQOi4kOxe@

Shooting this shot, I get around the table and around a foot from scratching (some 2 feet, some less, but around a foot).
http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AALR1PKGM2UALR2Uadi2Uali2Ucpu1kKGM1kCPK4kawn4kD Qj3kahQ1kUFa1uDCG@

-td

I came across you on Youtube doing the first shot. You have a damn fine stroke.

Very impressed.

PROG8R
12-02-2007, 07:22 PM
until my marker goes dry or my lead breaks.:D

crappoolguy
02-14-2008, 04:39 PM
until my marker goes dry or my lead breaks.:D




LOL :D I've always wonder why they call it draw.

Scott Lee
02-14-2008, 05:53 PM
mark...While you certainly can draw the CB hitting only "1 tip" below center, you can just as certainly draw the CB much more easily, and with less speed, striking at maximum draw...which would be 3 tips below center. That's just simple physics. Good players must master all level hits on the CB.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Learn how to draw the ball never going below 1 cue tip below centerball. mark

Fatboy
02-14-2008, 06:08 PM
LOL :D I've always wonder why they call it draw.

in England they call it "Screw"

Patrick Johnson
02-14-2008, 06:40 PM
maximum draw...which would be 3 tips below center

Maximum draw is about 1/2 inch from centerball, which is about the width of a 12.75 mm tip, so how does the width of one tip come to be described as "3 tips" of offset? And what about the fact that there are so many different tip sizes? I'm not trying to single you out, Scott; there are as many definitions of "1 tip" of offset as there are pool players - that's the problem.

I think this "old school" terminology communicates more confusion than information and we should start describing tip offset in terms of inches or fractions of a ball's radius - i.e., "maximum draw = 1/2 inch" or "maximum draw = 1/2 radius (1/2 way to the ball's edge)".

pj
chgo

asbani
02-14-2008, 06:44 PM
depends on the cloth too.. and type of balls too! i often draw flawlessly, and sometime in other rooms i find it hard to draw...

Scott Lee
02-14-2008, 07:08 PM
...which is EXACTLY why I despise the term 'tips of english', and why I show all my students (and showed you too) the size of the contact patch between the tip and CB...which is a 1/8" circle...or 3mm (the same size as the red circle on a red circle CB). Therefore, maximum draw is 3 circles, stacked one below the other. You're right, that 1/2" below center is pretty close to "as low as you can go".

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Maximum draw is about 1/2 inch from centerball, which is about the width of a 12.75 mm tip, so how does the width of one tip come to be described as "3 tips" of offset? And what about the fact that there are so many different tip sizes? I'm not trying to single you out, Scott; there are as many definitions of "1 tip" of offset as there are pool players - that's the problem.

I think this "old school" terminology communicates more confusion than information and we should start describing tip offset in terms of inches or fractions of a ball's radius - i.e., "maximum draw = 1/2 inch" or "maximum draw = 1/2 radius (1/2 way to the ball's edge)".

pj
chgo

Patrick Johnson
02-14-2008, 08:53 PM
Scott:
I despise the term 'tips of english'

Testify, Brother Scott. And while we're at it, let's talk about the heretics who think "offset" means how far they move the centerline of the stick. It is clearly God's intent that it mean how far from center we actually hit the ball.

Amen.

pj
chgo

Patrick Johnson
02-14-2008, 10:33 PM
It's fun to see how far you can draw, but it is a useless shot 99.99% of the time in actual play.

Table length draw doesn't come up a lot, but having a stroke that's capable of that - being able to consistently hit the CB within 1mm of where you want to rather than within 5mm - makes a huge difference in your success with all kinds of shots, not just getting maximum spin.

We advance at pool by building on things we learn. Our position play improves as our aiming improves, our aiming improves as our stance and stroke improve, etc. I think hitting the CB really accurately is perhaps the most overlooked of the fundamental skills in pool, and ironically I think it might have the most far reaching benefits.

pj
chgo

av84fun
02-14-2008, 11:51 PM
...which is EXACTLY why I despise the term 'tips of english', and why I show all my students (and showed you too) the size of the contact patch between the tip and CB...which is a 1/8" circle...or 3mm (the same size as the red circle on a red circle CB). Therefore, maximum draw is 3 circles, stacked one below the other. You're right, that 1/2" below center is pretty close to "as low as you can go".

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Hi Scott,

"Pretty close" is a relative term and a lot depends in the roundness of the tip. It is well known...although not accepted by some, that a dime radius permits a lower tip placement than a less rounded shape.

But 1/2 inch below center is about 1/8 inch above the stripe on "wide stripe" balls...which is considered to be the lowest margin for draw shots without miscueing.

Those with reasonably sporty strokes can achieve tip contact right ON the lower edge of the stripe without fear of miscueing...at least with a dime shape, well scuffed and chalked tip. (assuming normal playing condition stroke speed. VERY hard shots will, of course, miscue/jump the ball if struck that low)

Of course, the bottom portion of the "tip circumference circle" is placed well below the bottom edge of the stripe because it is the upper portion of that circle that will contact the CB on a downward angled shot like almost all draw shots must be.



I'm not being picky...just pointing out that since 1/8 inch is one quarter of the half inch "draw margin" being discussed here, it is not an insignificant difference.

I'm also chiming in since many players think that the center of the tip is what contacts the CB and they therefore, orient the center of the tip to the bottom of the stripe in the belief that that is the lowest possible position for the tip to be...which, as you know, is incorrect.

Regards,
Jim

av84fun
02-15-2008, 12:03 AM
Table length draw doesn't come up a lot, but having a stroke that's capable of that - being able to consistently hit the CB within 1mm of where you want to rather than within 5mm - makes a huge difference in your success with all kinds of shots, not just getting maximum spin.

We advance at pool by building on things we learn. Our position play improves as our aiming improves, our aiming improves as our stance and stroke improve, etc. I think hitting the CB really accurately is perhaps the most overlooked of the fundamental skills in pool, and ironically I think it might have the most far reaching benefits.

pj
chgo

I couldn't agree more. IMHO, striking the CB at unintended places is one of the leading causes of missed shots due to unintended throw/curve/squirt.

And yet half the B players and lower couldn't tell you how much "outside" they intended to impart. They will just say..."Oh a tip or so of left." And half of them don't even know what a tip of left actually is....which I know BUGS Scott Lee! (-:

Regards,
Jim

Fast Lenny
02-15-2008, 12:43 AM
I have a crap draw stroke due to bad mechanics but i set this shot up the other day and actually came all the way back to hit the rail and maybe come a few inches off the rail,i was very happy with my result but my draw stroke is something im going to work on. :)

crappoolguy
02-15-2008, 05:47 AM
in England they call it "Screw"


I know. In actual fact I'm actually an English snooker player who always calls it screw. I can see a little sense in screw, but why draw? Also, I can now pretty consistantly do a table length screw shot (with a bit of help with my new 11mm cue!) .

leehayes
02-15-2008, 06:07 AM
Not sure if 5 would be average but depending on the table and the night i can be from 3 inches to all the way across the table and still coming off the other rail...distance isn't as big an issue for me as is control...draw too far at the wrong time and not far enough on the others

CocoboloCowboy
02-15-2008, 06:18 AM
?How far can you draw???, maybe the question should have been, how far can you draw under perfect conditions/

Clean Balls

New Clean cloth

how and Dry in the pool room, as barometric pressure, humidity, and temperature effect playing conditions.

Perfect condition I can draw a Table Length + A half hitting three rails.http://www.geocities.com/cocobolocowboy/arff.gif

Neil
02-15-2008, 07:18 AM
.................