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RunoutalloverU
11-30-2007, 11:07 AM
Here is how I make every shot like a straight in shot for me. Now I haven't been able to teach this to anyone, because one of the fundamental aspects of my aiming method is slightly untangable. I mean ive tried, I just havent really been successful. So im just going to throw this out there, and lets see where I fall short in explaining it.

When I stand over a shot, any shot, I can see where the cue ball must travel in a straight line to make contact with the object ball to pocket it. So I center the cue ball in this line with my body. So the cueball as im standing over the shot, is centered with my body i.e. the middle of my chest, my nose, etc. I then make an imaginary dot that is on the top of the cue ball. I take that dot or...point, think of a period on the end of a sentence, and look directly across from the cueball and where the object ball is i make an imaginary point there. And then as im bending over the shot, I keep those two points together. Now on cut shots with less angle, the point/dot in on the object ball. With more angle is gradually moves away from the object ball and then is on the table next to the object ball. And this makes every shot easy, no matter what it is (within reason), and they all become like straight in shots for me.
So get it? Tell me what you think.

JoeyInCali
11-30-2007, 11:31 AM
I like it. It's just a modified ghost ball really.

jsp
11-30-2007, 11:36 AM
...When I stand over a shot, any shot, I can see where the cue ball must travel in a straight line to make contact with the object ball to pocket it....
If you can always see this line on every shot, then who needs an aiming system?

The real question is...exactly how did obtain this ultimate line?

RunoutalloverU
11-30-2007, 11:52 AM
If you can always see this line on every shot, then who needs an aiming system?

The real question is...exactly how did obtain this ultimate line?

I have no idea, thats the part that I can't explain. But one way ive tried, is if your standing over the shot, and took the ball in your hand and slid it down the table where you know (i guess like a ghost ball technique) where the cue ball meets the object ball in a straight line with the pocket, thats the line. Where that ball slides down is the ultimate line.

RunoutalloverU
11-30-2007, 12:17 PM
This system also make combinations much much eaisier too. It corrects the way you look at them, and shows you where to proporly aim.

CaptainJR
11-30-2007, 12:36 PM
Not bad, good in fact. Seems to me you are moving toward playing by feel which is the direction you want to be going.

RunoutalloverU
11-30-2007, 01:05 PM
Not bad, good in fact. Seems to me you are moving toward playing by feel which is the direction you want to be going.

Thank you. I think you might be right about the feel, well atleast im able to use the technique faster, and on eaisier shots its almost automatic.

Patrick Johnson
11-30-2007, 01:47 PM
I think your method is a good one, but it's not really an aiming system. An aiming system's purpose is to show where the CB needs to go to make the shot. Your system is more of a "shooting" system: it helps you to deliver the CB to the spot where you already know it needs to go.

pj
chgo

CaptainJR
11-30-2007, 01:55 PM
I think your method is a good one, but it's not really an aiming system. An aiming system's purpose is to show where the CB needs to go to make the shot. Your system is more of a "shooting" system: it helps you to deliver the CB to the spot where you already know it needs to go.

pj
chgo

Patrick is right and again it shows that you are leaning toward feel. Which also explains why you can't explain it. You can explain feel. It must be developed.

JR

cuebuilder
11-30-2007, 02:54 PM
Almost sounds like the way I play. Problem for me is its not there for me every time I play. When things are "on" for me, I see lines on the table with my minds eye going from the cue ball to the object ball, and from the object ball to the pocket or point on the rail that I want the ball to follow.
Almost like worn lines in the felt. On those days, I don't miss. trouble is, its not always ther. Sometimes I can concentrate enough to make the lines show up, and sometimes I can't. I'll try the dots next time out. Sounds good to me. I think you explained it well. Thanks.

Jason Robichaud
11-30-2007, 04:50 PM
You can make most shots by aiming full ball or outer edge of object ball. You use the line to pocket from CB to find an arc on the CB. You aim the arc at the OB by aiming half or edge OB. When you aim edge of OB the line to pocket (arc) jumps out at me. These arcs give me a larger aiming point and more confidence over the shot. The arc is like a slice of pie facing the pocket. Made the contact point easy for me.

RunoutalloverU
12-01-2007, 11:49 AM
I think your method is a good one, but it's not really an aiming system. An aiming system's purpose is to show where the CB needs to go to make the shot. Your system is more of a "shooting" system: it helps you to deliver the CB to the spot where you already know it needs to go.

pj
chgo

I never really thought of it that way, thank you for your insight, well said.

RunoutalloverU
12-01-2007, 11:57 AM
Almost sounds like the way I play. Problem for me is its not there for me every time I play. When things are "on" for me, I see lines on the table with my minds eye going from the cue ball to the object ball, and from the object ball to the pocket or point on the rail that I want the ball to follow.
Almost like worn lines in the felt. On those days, I don't miss. trouble is, its not always ther. Sometimes I can concentrate enough to make the lines show up, and sometimes I can't. I'll try the dots next time out. Sounds good to me. I think you explained it well. Thanks.

Yeah during the development of this technique that was the problem for me too, what made it "there" for me everytime I stepped to the table, was not taking my eye off of the two aiming points. Because when your standing up, its a different point of view (obviously) so the aiming changes, unless you keep the points together from standing up to going down over the shot. I dont actually use any "lines" per se. They are too hard to keep track of in my imagination. Two points....much eaisier.

bagofpaper
12-01-2007, 06:42 PM
Almost sounds like the way I play. Problem for me is its not there for me every time I play. When things are "on" for me, I see lines on the table with my minds eye going from the cue ball to the object ball, and from the object ball to the pocket or point on the rail that I want the ball to follow.
Almost like worn lines in the felt. On those days, I don't miss. trouble is, its not always ther. Sometimes I can concentrate enough to make the lines show up, and sometimes I can't. I'll try the dots next time out. Sounds good to me. I think you explained it well. Thanks.

I get the lines myself sometimes.. especially on a darker green felt. Good to hear I'm not crazy!

av84fun
12-01-2007, 10:06 PM
I think your method is a good one, but it's not really an aiming system. An aiming system's purpose is to show where the CB needs to go to make the shot. Your system is more of a "shooting" system: it helps you to deliver the CB to the spot where you already know it needs to go.

pj
chgo

I don't agree. His "system" involves visually deterimining a spot on the OB to which he wants to deliver the CB and then uses the dot on the top of the OC to AIM at that point.

Sounds like an aiming system to me.

Regards,
Jim

av84fun
12-01-2007, 10:31 PM
When I stand over a shot, any shot, I can see where the cue ball must travel in a straight line to make contact with the object ball to pocket it. So I center the cue ball in this line with my body. So the cueball as im standing over the shot, is centered with my body i.e. the middle of my chest, my nose, etc. I then make an imaginary dot that is on the top of the cue ball. I take that dot or...point, think of a period on the end of a sentence, and look directly across from the cueball and where the object ball is i make an imaginary point there. And then as im bending over the shot, I keep those two points together. Now on cut shots with less angle, the point/dot in on the object ball. With more angle is gradually moves away from the object ball and then is on the table next to the object ball. And this makes every shot easy, no matter what it is (within reason), and they all become like straight in shots for me.
So get it? Tell me what you think.

Interesting approach.

First, your tactic of APPROACHING the shot and getting down on it in a systematic way is SPOT ON. A lot of errors are induced by faulty set up positions.

HOW you approach is influenced by such things as body type and your stance over the shot. Some use the classic 45 degree foot position while the former snooker champions tend to set up more open.

I tend to set up more open...because Allison Fisher taught me to do that in her and Gerda Hofstatter's GREAT Pool School. So, because of that, I imagine a line running through the CB/OB back to where I am standing and approach the table so that my right foot steps on that line. Doing so sets me up correctly for MY personal stance.

Your approach may be different but the fact that you are approaching and getting down over the shot in a systematic way is GREAT.

As for your system itself, it relies on being able to visualize imaginary spots on the CB and OB and to KEEP those spots mentally there. Some people have more visual minds than others and it is a GREAT skill to have.

And when you say..."I can see where the cue ball must travel in a straight line to make contact with the object ball to pocket it."...that essentially equates to the ghost ball system which works better for people who have visual minds than people who don't.

Everyone can see the ghost ball at first but many can't KEEP the ghost ball (mentally) in place as they get over the shot.

But DO always keep in mind that "geometric" systems are not only fine as a baseline starting point...,they are ESSENTIAL....BUT as Byrne and Koehler point out, raw geometry is not flawless due to the operation of collision-induced throw that influeces most shots to greater and lesser degrees depending on cut angle and the condition of the balls..chalk...powder...hand oil etc.

Collision throw can cause geometric OB paths to vary by as much as 11 degrees and 4 degrees even with clean balls! The compensation for collision throw is to hit thinner so as you continue to develop your system, you might want to adopt the montra..."When in doubt...thin it out" keeping in mind that the throw error becomes more important when the OB is further from the pocket.

Good luck!

Jim

RunoutalloverU
12-01-2007, 10:36 PM
I don't agree. His "system" involves visually deterimining a spot on the OB to which he wants to deliver the CB and then uses the dot on the top of the OC to AIM at that point.

Sounds like an aiming system to me.

Regards,
Jim

Ok so I guess it is a system. It just maybe some kind of hybrid. Where I use elements of tangible and untangible things. But where ive fallen short in explaining it, like ive said before, is where I know where the cue ball needs to be delievered in a straight line. It took me two years of struggling to get it right. What pointed me in the right direction, was actually, a book. "An answer to a pool players prayers." Good book, much too involved for me though. I don't have a dominate eye, and some of the points in it are overkill. But it did point me in the right direction. And now I don't even remember how. But I like the discussion, because ive never really tried to explain it to people who really knew the game.

av84fun
12-01-2007, 11:07 PM
You did an excellent job in explaining it and the variables in your system are sound.

But as I said, it relies on extremely good visualization skills including the ability to RETAIN those imaginary points in your mind.

Most great athletes in almost all sports have the abililty to actually SEE themselves execute. That's what most pro golfers are doing when they stand staionary behind their shots and sort of gaze off into the distance. They are actually VIZUALIZING themsleves executing the shot they are about to make.

Memory is similar. People have visual and auditory memory but most people have more success with one than the other. My GUESS is that you remember more/longer of what you read than what you hear.

Do you have good eyesight (corrected or otherwise)? People with better eyesight will remember more of what they see.

You are fortunate to have your visualization skill because it is difficult to learn if it be learned at all.

Regards,
Jim

JohnPT
12-02-2007, 12:49 AM
an aiming system is a method or technique to calculate how to pocket the ball e.g. quarter, half ball etc. the method mentioned is more a visual tool. i think the strength in this technique is it keeps the line of sight in line with the cueball path. it does not, however, calculate for the player how thick or thin to hit the object ball in order to pocket it. hence, not an aiming system. i'm just clearing semantics. doesnt matter what you call it though if it helps you pocket more balls.

Bigjohn
12-02-2007, 04:00 AM
Ok so I guess it is a system. It just maybe some kind of hybrid. Where I use elements of tangible and untangible things. But where ive fallen short in explaining it, like ive said before, is where I know where the cue ball needs to be delievered in a straight line. It took me two years of struggling to get it right. What pointed me in the right direction, was actually, a book. "An answer to a pool players prayers." Good book, much too involved for me though. I don't have a dominate eye, and some of the points in it are overkill. But it did point me in the right direction. And now I don't even remember how. But I like the discussion, because ive never really tried to explain it to people who really knew the game.

The problem still remains... Hitting that spot...

RunoutalloverU
12-02-2007, 04:27 AM
Interesting approach.

First, your tactic of APPROACHING the shot and getting down on it in a systematic way is SPOT ON. A lot of errors are induced by faulty set up positions.

HOW you approach is influenced by such things as body type and your stance over the shot. Some use the classic 45 degree foot position while the former snooker champions tend to set up more open.

I tend to set up more open...because Allison Fisher taught me to do that in her and Gerda Hofstatter's GREAT Pool School. So, because of that, I imagine a line running through the CB/OB back to where I am standing and approach the table so that my right foot steps on that line. Doing so sets me up correctly for MY personal stance.

Your approach may be different but the fact that you are approaching and getting down over the shot in a systematic way is GREAT.

As for your system itself, it relies on being able to visualize imaginary spots on the CB and OB and to KEEP those spots mentally there. Some people have more visual minds than others and it is a GREAT skill to have.

And when you say..."I can see where the cue ball must travel in a straight line to make contact with the object ball to pocket it."...that essentially equates to the ghost ball system which works better for people who have visual minds than people who don't.

Everyone can see the ghost ball at first but many can't KEEP the ghost ball (mentally) in place as they get over the shot.

But DO always keep in mind that "geometric" systems are not only fine as a baseline starting point...,they are ESSENTIAL....BUT as Byrne and Koehler point out, raw geometry is not flawless due to the operation of collision-induced throw that influeces most shots to greater and lesser degrees depending on cut angle and the condition of the balls..chalk...powder...hand oil etc.

Collision throw can cause geometric OB paths to vary by as much as 11 degrees and 4 degrees even with clean balls! The compensation for collision throw is to hit thinner so as you continue to develop your system, you might want to adopt the montra..."When in doubt...thin it out" keeping in mind that the throw error becomes more important when the OB is further from the pocket.

Good luck!

Jim

Thank you very much for your insight. I have a pretty decent memory with what I read and hear, my friends actually make fun of me for it. And I have good vision. The way you set up at the shot, where you take your feet positions into consideration, is one of the things they go into extensively in Answer to a poolplayers prayers. And although I have a normal pool stance, I mostly shoot with an open bridge. Its baisically like Wu chia ching's. And im not as (this is a compliment) robotic as the female snooker turned pool players are. Im more loose. Man I hear so much about throw, back hand english, etc. To be honest I can't really even explain that stuff. I mean I get that what you do to the CB relates to what happens to the OB, but that is completely feel, im not thinking about angles or degrees when I need to back cut an OB and drive the CB off a rail to get position, I just do it. I am now a fairly accomplished player, and I can hang with most that ive played on the west coast. It was like night and day when I actually figured this thing out. I (on tight pockets) couldn't make a ball (almost literally). Now I can run out rotation racks (given the right spread) on my table at home with practice pro pocket reducers in the jaws. When it hit me it was like winning the freaking lottery. But in no way do I see a ghostball. I never could, I guess this is like a coach telling someone to do one thing, to get them to do another. In baseball they tell you to throw the knob of the bat at the ball. Which in turn gets to swing level, among other things. Well this equates to what I guess is ghost ball, without actually using that technique per se.

RunoutalloverU
12-02-2007, 04:35 AM
an aiming system is a method or technique to calculate how to pocket the ball e.g. quarter, half ball etc. the method mentioned is more a visual tool. i think the strength in this technique is it keeps the line of sight in line with the cueball path. it does not, however, calculate for the player how thick or thin to hit the object ball in order to pocket it. hence, not an aiming system. i'm just clearing semantics. doesnt matter what you call it though if it helps you pocket more balls.

First off you are a good player. I would have to play you even. And you are absolutely right about it being a visual tool. But the beauty of it is that it DOESN'T calculate how thin or thick to hit the OB. You don't need to calculate that. Its already calculated for you. Thats the whole point. It corrects me. I can't "naturally" see where to aim for anything. Id be rattling the jaw of the pocket 90% of time, literally! This "system," "visual tool," or whatever, takes me out of it. Atleast thats the way it feels. For the first few months of using it, I thought in my head wow this doesn't look right, or I dont think im going to pocket this ball. And then when I pocketed ball after ball after ball, everytime, I was like....EXACTLY! It doesnt look right to me, when it is right. Now that ive gotten used to it, it atleast looks right to me now, but I still can't pocket anything without it, like if i had to get down over a shot without standing over it first, im maybe an ok C player. With it an low A to A depending on where im playing.

Patrick Johnson
12-02-2007, 07:56 AM
Me:
I think your method is a good one, but it's not really an aiming system. An aiming system's purpose is to show where the CB needs to go to make the shot. Your system is more of a "shooting" system: it helps you to deliver the CB to the spot where you already know it needs to go.

av84fun
I don't agree.

In that case I'm certainly right.

pj
chgo

RonV
03-01-2008, 04:20 PM
Here is how I make every shot like a straight in shot for me. Now I haven't been able to teach this to anyone, because one of the fundamental aspects of my aiming method is slightly untangable. I mean ive tried, I just havent really been successful. So im just going to throw this out there, and lets see where I fall short in explaining it.

When I stand over a shot, any shot, I can see where the cue ball must travel in a straight line to make contact with the object ball to pocket it. So I center the cue ball in this line with my body. So the cueball as im standing over the shot, is centered with my body i.e. the middle of my chest, my nose, etc. I then make an imaginary dot that is on the top of the cue ball. I take that dot or...point, think of a period on the end of a sentence, and look directly across from the cueball and where the object ball is i make an imaginary point there. And then as im bending over the shot, I keep those two points together. Now on cut shots with less angle, the point/dot in on the object ball. With more angle is gradually moves away from the object ball and then is on the table next to the object ball. And this makes every shot easy, no matter what it is (within reason), and they all become like straight in shots for me.
So get it? Tell me what you think.
IF YOU WANT AN AIMING SYSTEM, I`VE GOT IT...I HAVE BEEN GETTING EMAILS AND PHONE CALLS FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY FOR PHONE LESSONS...I HVE DONE SIX OF THEM AND THEY WORKED...I WASN`T SURE IF IT WOULD BUT THEY ALL GOT IT..IT`S THE SWIVEL OR AS SOME CALL THE PIVOT SYSTEM...IF YOU WANT SOME INFO ABOUT IT WRITE TO ME OR CALL ME AT ...VITELLOAIM@AOL.COM OR 212-737-0077 (h) 917-656-7189 CELL RONV

cubc
03-01-2008, 04:35 PM
when i create my own aiming system that works my keyboard will automatically engage caps lock indefinitely without a way of undoing it too.

av84fun
03-01-2008, 07:13 PM
deleted. duplicate post.

Patrick Johnson
03-01-2008, 07:49 PM
when i create my own aiming system that works my keyboard will automatically engage caps lock indefinitely without a way of undoing it too.

lol. It does seem to be a pattern...

pj
chgo

champ2107
03-01-2008, 08:00 PM
IF YOU WANT AN AIMING SYSTEM, I`VE GOT IT...I HAVE BEEN GETTING EMAILS AND PHONE CALLS FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY FOR PHONE LESSONS...I HVE DONE SIX OF THEM AND THEY WORKED...I WASN`T SURE IF IT WOULD BUT THEY ALL GOT IT..IT`S THE SWIVEL OR AS SOME CALL THE PIVOT SYSTEM...IF YOU WANT SOME INFO ABOUT IT WRITE TO ME OR CALL ME AT ...VITELLOAIM@AOL.COM OR 212-737-0077 (h) 917-656-7189 CELL RONV

hahahahahha

bluepepper
03-01-2008, 08:14 PM
Here is how I make every shot like a straight in shot for me. Now I haven't been able to teach this to anyone, because one of the fundamental aspects of my aiming method is slightly untangable. I mean ive tried, I just havent really been successful. So im just going to throw this out there, and lets see where I fall short in explaining it.

When I stand over a shot, any shot, I can see where the cue ball must travel in a straight line to make contact with the object ball to pocket it. So I center the cue ball in this line with my body. So the cueball as im standing over the shot, is centered with my body i.e. the middle of my chest, my nose, etc. I then make an imaginary dot that is on the top of the cue ball. I take that dot or...point, think of a period on the end of a sentence, and look directly across from the cueball and where the object ball is i make an imaginary point there. And then as im bending over the shot, I keep those two points together. Now on cut shots with less angle, the point/dot in on the object ball. With more angle is gradually moves away from the object ball and then is on the table next to the object ball. And this makes every shot easy, no matter what it is (within reason), and they all become like straight in shots for me.
So get it? Tell me what you think.

I, for one, happen to think this is brilliant. And you did describe it well. I would agree with the suggestion that this is not an aiming system in the conventional sense. But I think it's a very efficient two part routine.

You are first using your pocketing experience to simply sense when you are centered behind the cueball correctly. Then the visualization of dots is an alignment technique to make sure that the already sensed cueball path stays where you found it when you get down into position to shoot.

I would also agree with the statement that this is a modified ghost ball system, but not for aiming. I think you're "feeling" the ghost ball, not visualizing it. You sense its boundaries/thickness/firmness, and for the sole purpose of precise alignment (after you've already centered your body behind the cueball path by feel) are able to subtract the unneccessary parts of the ghost ball to visualize ony its center or bottom. Maybe you're even sort of sensing its boundaries FROM its center or bottom. Very Zen!

Connecting the dots is so pure and simple. Imagining paths/lines is unnecessary because you don't have to aim. That's already been accomplished by trusting your feel. You just have to match up the dots and you're ready to fire. If the dots match up, the only thing else that has to be sensed (or checked) is that the cue isn't pointing askew.

Thanks for sharing.
Jeff

av84fun
03-01-2008, 11:08 PM
an aiming system is a method or technique to calculate how to pocket the ball e.g. quarter, half ball etc. the method mentioned is more a visual tool.

It really doesn't matter but you brought the issue of semantics and for purposes of accuracy, yes it is a "system."

You referred to it as a "method" which is a synonym of system. In addition, the procedure he describes fits well with the definition of the word "system."

You and others have applied an overly narrow definition of what is actually a very broad term.

Regards,
Jim

System

1. An organized set of interrelated ideas or principles
8. An organized and coordinated method; a procedure. See synonyms at method.

Method
A means or manner of procedure, especially a regular and systematic way of accomplishing something: mediation as a method of solving disputes.
Orderly arrangement of parts or steps to accomplish an end:.

Runout's

av84fun
03-01-2008, 11:30 PM
When I stand over a shot, any shot, I can see where the cue ball must travel in a straight line to make contact with the object ball to pocket it.

Regarding the ghost ball issue, even though you may not think of it on a conscious level....and I am not remotely suggesting that you should...what you have described above is essentially what the ghost ball technique is.

When you say you can see the straight line the CB needs to travel "to make contact with the object ball to pocket it."...putting the cb in that place...i.e. where it needs to be to pocket the ob...is where the ghost ball is and what you are doing that is interesting, is drawing a mental line that guides you to the ghost ball's place.

Traditionally, the system works the opposite way...i.e. the player visualizes the ghost ball's position first and then attempts (by various means) to shoot the cb so as to replace the ghost ball.

The dots you use are an alternative to other methods of aiming for the purpose of replacing the ghost ball.

Very cool to hear that your system is working so well for you. NOW...spend 10 times as much time working on position routes and CB distance/direction control...and playing safeties as you do on shot making and who knows how great you may eventually become!!!

Regards,
Jim