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View Full Version : New Elevation Tour - N.A.C.P.B.A. ???


GG11
12-04-2007, 09:39 AM
Has anyone heard of this new tour? Trying to get some more information about it. The membership requirements are ... WOW! But it could be quite interesting if it were legit.

Is this legit? Anyone know?

http://www.nacpba.com/

JAM
12-04-2007, 09:46 AM
Some of the links on the website are dead, but the phone number area code 678 is in Atlanta, Georgia.

Of course, this caught my eye:

1st place:$200,000
2nd place: $100,000
3rd place: $75,000
4th place: $50,000
5th-9th place; $25,000 each
10th-16th place: $15,000 each
17th-32nd place:$7,500 each
33rd-64th place: $5,850 each
This will hold true for all twenty regular season tournaments.

:D :D :D

I wonder why this has not been publicized in the pool media as of yet.

And then there's this: Upon approval of membership all athletes may be asked to take a drug test. This test will be paid for by the NACPBA and be conducted by one of their pre-determined doctors or clinics. Any athlete refusing to take the test will be denied membership. Any athlete failing the test will be denied membership until the following year.

I definitely don't like this: Members may not participate in billiards activities outside the NACPBA without prior approval from the NACPBA

This is a lot to cough up for an unknown entity: Yearly Membership Dues of $2500

JAM

kevin s
12-04-2007, 10:14 AM
I think this would be great if it could happen. Although I would have to admit it seems like too much too fast. They could cut the payouts in half and it would still be way better than anything going. I don't understand the need to do 80 hours of community serve either?

ScottW
12-04-2007, 10:15 AM
Well that site is pretty rough. Bad formatting, lots of typos, weird grammar.

The WHOIS info shows the domain was registered 11/14/07 - three weeks ago more or less - by a Timothy Dennis in Woodstock (town about twenty-thirty miles NW of Atlanta) with the same phone number listed as on that site.

bigskyjake
12-04-2007, 10:23 AM
Asking players to do community service + not gambling = 0 particapants

GG11
12-04-2007, 10:23 AM
Well that site is pretty rough. Bad formatting, lots of typos, weird grammar.

The WHOIS info shows the domain was registered 11/14/07 - three weeks ago more or less - by a Timothy Dennis in Woodstock (town about twenty-thirty miles NW of Atlanta) with the same phone number listed as on that site.

WOW Scott, I'm impressed with your detective work!!! Kudos!

I too JAM was wondering about it's lack of media attention. This seems oh so similiar to the IPT. Makes you wonder????

The payouts seem amazing!!! Almost too amazing and so that's why I'm weary. It seems like a lot of big ideas and it's definitely eye catching. Guess we'll have to wait to see if it really pans out!

corvette1340
12-04-2007, 10:23 AM
Looks legit to me! I already paypal'd the guy my $2500, can't wait for the first event. I just hope Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton don't show up thinking its a N.A.A.C.P event instead of an N.A.C.P.B.A event.

ShootingArts
12-04-2007, 10:26 AM
Well that site is pretty rough. Bad formatting, lots of typos, weird grammar.

The WHOIS info shows the domain was registered 11/14/07 - three weeks ago more or less - by a Timothy Dennis in Woodstock (town about twenty-thirty miles NW of Atlanta) with the same phone number listed as on that site.


I thought "Woodstock" was the answer to all of the questions until I saw it was Woodstock GA.

A name that will never be forgotten by my generation. Fifty thousand people gathered there and I think I have met a half-million of them! :D :D :D

Hu

ScottW
12-04-2007, 10:34 AM
I too JAM was wondering about it's lack of media attention. This seems oh so similiar to the IPT. Makes you wonder????



You generally have to GET the attention of the media.

RunoutalloverU
12-04-2007, 10:35 AM
It may just be me however, this thing comes off like a multi-level marketing company. Not in the sense that they want you go get other people to join, but....I don't know, I just don't like the vibe. Anonymous means you either aren't for real, or you have something to hide. I don't know well see. Oh and the typos and weird grammar don't help calm my worries either.

CrownCityCorey
12-04-2007, 10:40 AM
I called and the message says a name Tim Dennis out of Woodstock, Ga. This is also the Admin Contact when doing a "Whois" lookup on the domain name.

Anyone know Timothy Dennis? What's his story?

lodini
12-04-2007, 10:40 AM
Well that site is pretty rough. Bad formatting, lots of typos, weird grammar.

The WHOIS info shows the domain was registered 11/14/07 - three weeks ago more or less - by a Timothy Dennis in Woodstock (town about twenty-thirty miles NW of Atlanta) with the same phone number listed as on that site.

I decided to call the number and see what happened... the answering machine said "Hi, you've reached Tim Dennis with the NACPBA". It seems by searching the site that he doesn't have a staff yet. There seems to be no contact info besides that number, and the sponsorship info isn't finished yet. If the site was only registered on 11/14, that's probably why there has been no media attention. I can't find a start date, either. I'd wait this one out! :-)

How did you find it, GG11?

smokeandapancak
12-04-2007, 10:47 AM
JS (MR.403) just mentioned this in another thread...

Dont know if he was serious or not ..but he said we need to check it out... good things happening here.....

ScottW
12-04-2007, 10:53 AM
I wouldn't get my hopes up.

JCIN
12-04-2007, 11:32 AM
Browsing through the site, I like alot of what it has to say. Someone put some work in to put it together. There are some holes though. First is of course the money. As I read it there will be $22 mil in escrow. If that is true it will go a long way. I will believe it when I see it, but it would be great for the game it came to be.

A few things I found pinging the old BS meter were this:

http://www.nacpba.com/compol.asp

"Should the goal of changing the image of the game and evolving the game into a publicly accepted and recognized sport we will disban after three years. That is our mandate. That is our goal. That is our deadline. Should the road to this goal be seen as being achieved ther will be continued funding for an addtional 7 years. At that time it is our hope that the NACPBA will be firmly established and self-sustaining."

Sounds a little too close to the last 3 year plan.

The copy throughout the sight just sounds a little bit off. I can't put my finger on it exactly, just feels a little weird. But then we are all like the dog in the Springsteen song. The one that has been kicked too much :D


As far as the player conduct policy it looks like something lifted from the PGA. The drug testing could be just a stick for the association to use on any future problem children.

I think it is good someone is trying something. The main thing is complete transparency as far as the money is concerned. If they can do that they will be on to something. Looks like the official announcement is set for Febuary 2008 according to the .gif on the home page. I for one am interested to know who is behind this. You would think if it is anyone associated remotely with the game someone here would know something. Guess I will just wait and see.

frankwhite
12-04-2007, 11:33 AM
Some of the links on the website are dead, but the phone number area code 678 is in Atlanta, Georgia.

Of course, this caught my eye:

1st place:$200,000
2nd place: $100,000
3rd place: $75,000
4th place: $50,000
5th-9th place; $25,000 each
10th-16th place: $15,000 each
17th-32nd place:$7,500 each
33rd-64th place: $5,850 each
This will hold true for all twenty regular season tournaments.

:D :D :D

I wonder why this has not been publicized in the pool media as of yet.

And then there's this: Upon approval of membership all athletes may be asked to take a drug test. This test will be paid for by the NACPBA and be conducted by one of their pre-determined doctors or clinics. Any athlete refusing to take the test will be denied membership. Any athlete failing the test will be denied membership until the following year.

I definitely don't like this: Members may not participate in billiards activities outside the NACPBA without prior approval from the NACPBA

This is a lot to cough up for an unknown entity: Yearly Membership Dues of $2500

JAM


Jenny, whatdaya think??? Drug Testing??? Whats the reasoning for this??? Don't think that will go over to well??
Frankie

smokeandapancak
12-04-2007, 11:48 AM
Jenny, whatdaya think??? Drug Testing??? Whats the reasoning for this??? Don't think that will go over to well??
Frankie


Is that question for real????

I know it wasnt directed to me...but...are you serious?

GG11
12-04-2007, 11:56 AM
I decided to call the number and see what happened... the answering machine said "Hi, you've reached Tim Dennis with the NACPBA". It seems by searching the site that he doesn't have a staff yet. There seems to be no contact info besides that number, and the sponsorship info isn't finished yet. If the site was only registered on 11/14, that's probably why there has been no media attention. I can't find a start date, either. I'd wait this one out! :-)

How did you find it, GG11?

Insider Trading LOL :)

TR Baby. :D

corvette1340
12-04-2007, 12:02 PM
These odds just went up at the Mirage concerning this tour:

odds of a single event ever happening 11-1
odds that Kevin Trudeau is behind this tour 3-1
odds that some moron will actually pay the $2500 before the first event 1-5
odds that Deno Andrews will submit an application for employment 1-3
odds that NAACP sues the tour for initial infringements 2-1

9 Ball Girl
12-04-2007, 12:40 PM
Jenny, whatdaya think??? Drug Testing??? Whats the reasoning for this??? Don't think that will go over to well??
FrankieI was thinking the same thing! I'm sure as hell that that won't go over at all!

Perk
12-04-2007, 12:45 PM
I was thinking the same thing! I'm sure as hell that that won't go over at all!

Most other sports have drug testing policies. I for one think that it would be a good thing, whether or not people would care for it. Anyone that would be in an organization like this (not like this one will happen) would know what is expected going in, and could follow the rules.

Interesting site to say the least.

Tim5000
12-04-2007, 01:37 PM
Looks legit to me! I already paypal'd the guy my $2500, can't wait for the first event. I just hope Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton don't show up thinking its a N.A.A.C.P event instead of an N.A.C.P.B.A event.

You ARE joking about paying the $2500 already aren't you?

JAM
12-04-2007, 01:40 PM
Jenny, whatdaya think??? Drug Testing??? Whats the reasoning for this??? Don't think that will go over to well??
Frankie

Let's just say that I hope those who have to take pain pills for their aches and pains can provide a prescription. :eek:

Beer isn't a problem because it doesn't stay in your system after 24 hours. :D

Cannabis consumption could present a problem for those who indulge because it can remain in one's system for up to 30 days. :o

JAM

GG11
12-04-2007, 01:40 PM
These odds just went up at the Mirage concerning this tour:

odds of a single event ever happening 11-1
odds that Kevin Trudeau is behind this tour 3-1
odds that some moron will actually pay the $2500 before the first event 1-5
odds that Deno Andrews will submit an application for employment 1-3
odds that NAACP sues the tour for initial infringements 2-1


LOL I loved this!!! Very funny Corvette!!

JAM
12-04-2007, 01:44 PM
I too JAM was wondering about it's lack of media attention....

I would think that the promoter/organizer would want to place an ad in BD, IP, P&B, and the rest of the pool-related media, which is why I mentioned the lack of media attention. Of course, if the launch date is February 2008, they have time to get their ads in there.

Most magazines request final copy, ads, and articles to be received at least 2 months before the release date. So, a magazine coming out in February would need everything by December. Time will tell, I guess.

I just remember several years ago when there was a million-dollar tournament going to be held in Vegas, requiring a $10,000 entry fee, race to 21, bar tables. Everyone was skeptical as the tournament organizers were unknown entities, there was not much advertising, and the tournament never came to fruition.

JAM

iba7467
12-04-2007, 01:59 PM
I actually really like the premise of this idea. Essentially they are creating a minor league (APA+BCA+TAP) and a major league. Those in the minor league are able to compete for admission into the professional.

I did some quick math. Our local APA league earns $295200 per year and pays $59000 in royalties plus membership dues. Our area is certainly not the largest. If the leagues were to combine and support a venture like this we could have a juggernaut of potential earnings and much more marketability. The APA is not publicly traded, therefore I could not find the $ figures, but I must assume (since there are 5 APA leagues in AL alone) that the # across the country are outstanding.

This could actually work if all pool governing bodies were to agree to merge... not going to happen, but if it could.

corvette1340
12-04-2007, 02:13 PM
You ARE joking about paying the $2500 already aren't you?

of course not. Why wouldn't I go ahead and be the first to pay my $2500 membership dues? It all sounds legit to me. One question though, when I hit the submit button it said: Receipts for membership payments coming soon. What does that mean?

JCIN
12-04-2007, 02:15 PM
I actually really like the premise of this idea. Essentially they are creating a minor league (APA+BCA+TAP) and a major league. Those in the minor league are able to compete for admission into the professional.

I did some quick math. Our local APA league earns $295200 per year and pays $59000 in royalties plus membership dues. Our area is certainly not the largest. If the leagues were to combine and support a venture like this we could have a juggernaut of potential earnings and much more marketability. The APA is not publicly traded, therefore I could not find the $ figures, but I must assume (since there are 5 APA leagues in AL alone) that the # across the country are outstanding.

This could actually work if all pool governing bodies were to agree to merge... not going to happen, but if it could.
You can bet your sweet bippy that the APA will have no part of this or any other pro men's tour outside of a little lip service, maybe. They like things just the way they are. My opinion of course.

Johnnyt
12-04-2007, 02:15 PM
As far as the drug testing goes...it shouldn't be a problem if your not an out and out junkie and you want to have a shot at some real money. Almost every sport and all good jobs require them now. Myself and millions of people that smoke/smoked pot had to do what they had to do to pass the test. Stop, stop for awhile, or take pot flush kit before the test...if you know when your going to take it. If the pot is more important than maybe making a decent living...oh well. Of course I don't see this as ever coming off anyhow. Johnnyt

Jerry Forsyth
12-04-2007, 02:16 PM
The new tour is for real and we are meeting with them soon. AZB will put up whatever info they allow about their efforts next week. Kevin Trudeau is not involved in any way. Be patient and stay tuned to the AZB front page. We have had initial contacts and can tell you that formal announcements will come soon and that the men with whom we have spoken are sincere and very serious about growing the game.

Perk
12-04-2007, 02:17 PM
of course not. Why wouldn't I go ahead and be the first to pay my $2500 membership dues? It all sounds legit to me. One question though, when I hit the submit button it said: Receipts for membership payments coming soon. What does that mean?

Btw, remember that some individuals got into the IPT due to their early entry/writeups while others were skeptical or not in touch with a computer.

Those that hesitate masturbate or something along those lines.

JCIN
12-04-2007, 02:19 PM
of course not. Why wouldn't I go ahead and be the first to pay my $2500 membership dues? It all sounds legit to me. One question though, when I hit the submit button it said: Receipts for membership payments coming soon. What does that mean?
I am just wondering. What would a fine upstanding player like yourself get for the $2500? I saw no mention of entry fees, so do you get to play in the events for free ? Be a real sh!tter if we find out there is a $25K entry per event. :D

I believe Corvette is the ultimate early adopter. (AKA beta tester to the world). I for one salute you on your head first dive into the gravel pit of new pro circuits.


:D :D

corvette1340
12-04-2007, 02:20 PM
Btw, remember that some individuals got into the IPT due to their early entry/writeups while others were skeptical or not in touch with a computer.

Those that hesitate masturbate or something along those lines.


I think it goes "those that hesitate WHEN they masturbate, wind up 10 minutes late for work"

iba7467
12-04-2007, 02:21 PM
We have had initial contacts and can tell you that formal announcements will come soon and that the men with whom we have spoken are sincere and very serious about growing the game.

I commend the effort and have only to say that the grammatical errors on the website need to be corrected. Some of the errors make this venture appear whimsical and ill-prepared.

GG11
12-04-2007, 02:21 PM
The new tour is for real and we are meeting with them soon. AZB will put up whatever info they allow about their efforts next week. Kevin Trudeau is not involved in any way. Be patient and stay tuned to the AZB front page. We have had initial contacts and can tell you that formal announcements will come soon and that the men with whom we have spoken are sincere and very serious about growing the game.

WOW! This has me so excited!!! :D

corvette1340
12-04-2007, 02:26 PM
I am just wondering. What would a fine upstanding player like yourself get for the $2500? I saw no mention of entry fees, so do you get to play in the events for free ? Be a real sh!tter if we find out there is a $25K entry per event. :D

I believe Corvette is the ultimate early adopter. (AKA beta tester to the world). I for one salute you on your head first dive into the gravel pit of new pro circuits.


:D :D


the way I understood it, and by "understood it" I mean looking at the front page for 30 seconds. It seems that the $2500 gives me vip priveledges to all the events. Besides lowered event fees for the best C players I have access to skybox seating, off-limits snack bars, and valet parking by former child acting star Todd Bridges. I got an email from the tour and it allowed me to print out my membership card. I will scan it. Picture to follow.

corvette1340
12-04-2007, 02:48 PM
I got mine, where is yours?

bigskyjake
12-04-2007, 02:57 PM
I got mine, where is yours?


Gary the N.A.C.P.B.A. otter sez

55061

Tim5000
12-04-2007, 03:11 PM
You can bet your sweet bippy that the APA will have no part of this

JCIN: LMFAO! I haven't heard sweet bippy since Rowan & Martin 1969!

Corvette: Now I know your BS-ing us. You had me fooled!

Tim5000
12-04-2007, 03:14 PM
Oh and another thing... What's the fascination with beavers, prairie dogs, otters etc... on AZB?

bigskyjake
12-04-2007, 03:16 PM
Not trying to be a tool here but aren't otters in the weasel family :confused:

GG11
12-04-2007, 03:18 PM
of course not. Why wouldn't I go ahead and be the first to pay my $2500 membership dues? It all sounds legit to me. One question though, when I hit the submit button it said: Receipts for membership payments coming soon. What does that mean?

When I clicked submit to pay for the membership fee, this came up????

http://hem.passagen.se/muntz/haha.wav

What does it all mean Corvette?!?!?!!?

Tim5000
12-04-2007, 03:19 PM
You are correct BigSkyJake, I edited my post 5 seconds after posting it.

Neil
12-04-2007, 03:24 PM
.............

bigskyjake
12-04-2007, 03:26 PM
You are correct BigSkyJake, I edited my post 5 seconds after posting it.
:D :D :D :D :D
55068

Johnnyt
12-04-2007, 03:50 PM
So we're going to have two million dollar tours next year? Allen Hopkins tour starts in Aug. :eek: Johnnyt

Tim5000
12-04-2007, 04:05 PM
OK, Thanks Jake!

55069

jgpool
12-04-2007, 04:08 PM
Payout for 20 tourneys approx $10 mil in one season? Dues collected for 100 players at $2500 = $250,000 Wait and see!!

JCIN
12-04-2007, 04:12 PM
Made some phone calls. Sounds like the financing is not an issue. I am as hopeful as one can be post-IPT. Just have to wait and see.

Is that a haiku? I think that could be a haiku....

I am sure Mr. Forsythe will get all the info that is available. I look forward to hearing what this new entity has to say.

Tim5000
12-04-2007, 04:18 PM
Payout for 20 tourneys approx $10 mil in one season? Dues collected for 100 players at $2500 = $250,000 Wait and see!!

Exactly what I thought. You can't get blood from a turnip. If anyone has a chance to make something like this work it would be Allan Hopkins with his million dollar shootout, although I have serious doubts about his chances of success. Nonetheless, I wish them all good luck.

JAM
12-04-2007, 04:42 PM
I am definitely going to take a wait-and-see attitude, rather than prejudge this tour. One never knows what could happen! :)

This is the link to the million-dollar tournament that never took place: http://www.azbilliards.com/2000pressrelease.cfm?id=202

Some highlights: Many of you realize that "The Players Tournament I" is the greatest event in billiard history. This event will no doubt generate international media and sponsorship attention, as well as elevate the professional standards of the game immensely. For once, players will earn the type of money other sports figures have enjoyed for decades.

Unfortunately however, I am no longer sure the players or the industry are ready to come out of the dark corners of the sports world and enter the light. Perhaps you prefer darkness and being broke. I've never seen anything like this in any industry. There is little or no trust among players. Everyone is terrified of being scammed, and newcomers to the industry like Right Action Management...Here's the bottom line. We need 200 entries to have "The Players Tournament I," and we need these entries by October 31st, 2003. If we do not have 200 entries by the 31st, the tournament is off, and we all lose. At that point, Diamond Billiards will return all entry fees to the person who sent in the money.

I believe we all want this tournament to happen. With 200 entries the following are the exact payouts of "The Players Tournament I:"

1st Place = 1 million dollars
2nd Place = $125,000
3rd Place = $50,000
4th Place = $30,000
5th -8th = $20,000
9th-16th = $15,000
17th - 32nd = $12,500
33rd-64th = $11,000

Total Prize Money = $1,957,000

When push came to shove, only 10 or so entry fees were paid up front, most of them by stakehorses and sponsors. Sadly, this event didn't make it. This is just one event, though.

The NACPBA would be an organization with a tour, so to speak. I wonder how they will deal with the WPA, WPBA, UPA, et cetera, et cetera.

JAM

lodini
12-04-2007, 04:59 PM
The NACPBA would be an organization with a tour, so to speak. I wonder how they will deal with the WPA, WPBA, UPA, et cetera, et cetera.

JAM

It looks as though they don't plan on dealing at all... one of the rules is "Members may not participate in billiards activities outside the NACPBA without prior approval from the NACPBA." This may or may not mean that its members won't be able to play anywhere else. But with 31 events per year, who would have time!?

(Not that this is a bad thing at all... maybe this is the one unified tour everyone has been waiting for??)

jgpool
12-04-2007, 05:09 PM
It looks as though they don't plan on dealing at all... one of the rules is "Members may not participate in billiards activities outside the NACPBA without prior approval from the NACPBA." This may or may not mean that its members won't be able to play anywhere else. But with 31 events per year, who would have time!?

(Not that this is a bad thing at all... maybe this is the one unified tour everyone has been waiting for??)

This is in essence buying the rights of performance of the pool players. Don't all major sports do this? Does this not make sense that if you are investing in a sport to control the players professional activity. You must protect your investment. IMO (Big Payouts) (If true?) :confused:

lodini
12-04-2007, 05:13 PM
This is in essence buying the rights of performance of the pool players. Don't all major sports do this? Does this not make sense that if you are investing in a sport to control the players professional activity. You must protect your investment. IMO (Big Payouts) (If true?) :confused:

Absolutely. That's why I said it wasn't a bad thing for the players. It signifies the beginning of one unified organization.

jgpool
12-04-2007, 05:27 PM
Absolutely. That's why I said it wasn't a bad thing for the players. It signifies the beginning of one unified organization.

Your right, billiards has always needed ONE Controlling Authority. All sports at the professional level need ONE Controlling Authority to prosper as long as that ONE in power will do what is good for the sport and not what is good for themselves first. It has to be a WIN WIN situation but the sport must be on the high end of the deal for it to prosper and grow!! This is very interesting and I think we all hope this is legit!! We'll see!

fasteddienc
12-04-2007, 05:28 PM
Sounds like to be eligibile for the first year you must have played in 3 major pro events in addition to several other requirements. That eliminates me at this time so I guess the established pros will be the guinea pigs of this tour.

What amazes me is all the concern about drug tests. I wouldn't care if they tested at every event. And what is so bad about community service? It's time we get some class and respect for our sport and that all begins with the players and how they carry themselves. It once was a gentleman's game and something like this might be just the ticket. I would love nothing more than to see a tour chock full of Louis Ulrichs, Mike Davis', and Stevie Moores. There's nothing more enjoyable than playing against guys that don't shark you, treat you respectably, and just play pool without all the added BS.

ShootingArts
12-04-2007, 06:27 PM
If it is a win/win deal you don't have to restrict the player's rights to play elsewhere. With the money offered the only reason to do that is that they intend to or expect to find themselves bucking heads with some of the premier events we have left. I was always convinced that the IPT went out of it's way to create schedule conflicts. If this new tour intends to do the same I will be extremely skeptical from the jump. There is no reason to destroy the few majors we have for a new tour.

No idea that this is the plan but I fail to see any reason to restrict players' options if you have the best deal in town anyway.

Hu




Your right, billiards has always needed ONE Controlling Authority. All sports at the professional level need ONE Controlling Authority to prosper as long as that ONE in power will do what is good for the sport and not what is good for themselves first. It has to be a WIN WIN situation but the sport must be on the high end of the deal for it to prosper and grow!! This is very interesting and I think we all hope this is legit!! We'll see!

9 Ball Girl
12-04-2007, 07:06 PM
When I clicked submit to pay for the membership fee, this came up????

http://hem.passagen.se/muntz/haha.wav
I think it means they've hired their first assistant, Nelson. :p

JCIN
12-04-2007, 07:21 PM
After looking at the site for awhile here is what I can figure out.

4 "seasons" of 4 different games.

128 man fields
True double elimination

8 ball race to 7 Alternate break
9 ball race to 9 winner break
1 pocket race to 3
Straight pool race to 3 ????? No ball number listed. Info layout is terrible.
Races get a little longer towards the end of the events.
No hill hill victories in 8 ball or 9 ball. All sets win by 2.

2 week break between "season" formats.

Here is where I start to get a headache:

"The post season play will be a study in determination and concentration

The athletes will be competing in the bracket that was there worst finish for the year. This will require a great deal of committment and determination on the athletes part. CAN YOU ELEVATE YOUR GAME, and emerge the GRAND CHAMPION"

"The top 64 athletes will then be bracketed into four categories according to their point toal for each format and seeded accordingly.

As an example the worst sixteen finishers in one pocket will play each other in the one pocket bracket. The lowest point total for the season in one pocket will be seeded sixteenth and will play the highest point total of the one pocket bracket bottom sixteen finishers.

This will hold true for all of the three remaining brackets. (i.e. stright pool, eight ball and nine ball)"

It looks to me like some people who like the game but don't really understand it got around a table and went like this "We could do this, and this and this and this. Oh Oh and this and what about this."

Man there is some convoluted stuff here. I hope they get someone who knows a little about pool to help them finalize this format.

The thing that really threw me are the silly little teasers :

"There are 211 known games of pool with actual written rules. The game we will play is one of these.

The secret is in the numbers"

And what does this mean?

"We will be announcing not only our kick-off tournament but several other events during the breaks and off-season.Learn More... "

Man that site is a mess. I have a feeling you could put it all on one page with a wire diagram if you could ever figure it all out.

Somebody is dreaming big. I hope they have the ability and real world knowledge to pull it off. If they put the money up and they are serious I will support it wholeheartedly. Ways to go yet though.





"

Neil
12-04-2007, 07:30 PM
..............

ShootingArts
12-04-2007, 07:45 PM
teasers :

"There are 211 known games of pool with actual written rules. The game we will play is one of these.

The secret is in the numbers"




They are going to play 21-1 straight pool. 21 ball rack plus the break ball; 211 or to be more accurate 21-1.

This will be played on seven, eight, and nine foot tables. After this they plan to play one pocket but again there will be a difference. The rack will be in the normal foot position but the two money pockets will be the head corners. I would tell you what they have planned for eight and ten ball but everyone needs a little suspense in their life.

Hu

PS This was just the wildest BS I could dream up on short notice to feed the rumor mill! I hope there is actually some substance to this tour. Most things sound positive but saying 22 million is no problem and starting by putting up a mickey mouse website is a little scary.

JCIN
12-04-2007, 07:45 PM
First, if they actually pull it off, more power to 'them'.

With that said, after reading their web site, it seems they really tend to stress professionalism, and a 'new face' for pool. Yet their site really isn't very professional at all.???Too many unanswered questions to feel very good about it. If this is an example of their sales technique to the public, they don't have much of a chance of succeeding.

They mention pro tour cards- what cards?? Anybody know of any besides the IPT? They mention you have to be a top member of one of their leagues- what leagues? And to qualify for a pro event you have to be in a bar league if your an amateur? Many top players that no longer play will have nothing to do with an amateur league, and I don't blame them. They are about as unprofessional as it gets.

And referees are only picked from league players?? What is the matter with the Nationaly Certified referees??

I guess it's wait and see time. But at least the IPT looked good up front.
The more you look the more funny things you find. Like those weird stock images on the side of some of the pages. What does a dude at a desk have to do with pro pool? All the cheesy flash and animated gifs. Just odd.

I hope this is just a first draft, maybe a brainstorming type thing that will be refined. Maybe they just threw this out there to get a response to some ideas. I know putting a site together isn't easy but if they are gonna front $66 Million (22 a year for 3 years) I hope they can do better than the current site. I mean which is harder ? Organizing pool players and getting the logistics in order for 22 tour stops or a website?

People I have talked to say they are dead serious and have the resources to back it up so we will see. I hope it works.

JCIN
12-04-2007, 07:48 PM
I read about this in before things and players money it all is and not working will it be with unknown runners too doing it. Trust not with them to have money from friend players to pay them.
You have the most appropriate avatar on the forum.

Tim5000
12-04-2007, 08:57 PM
The more you look the more funny things you find. Like those weird stock images on the side of some of the pages. What does a dude at a desk have to do with pro pool? All the cheesy flash and animated gifs. Just odd.

Their site is a cheap, generic template. These templates are available online for about $30 - $60 they have all the stock images, gifs, paragraph structure, etc.. You just fill in the blanks. Makes me quite suspicious.

junior718
12-04-2007, 10:09 PM
drug testing is a great idea. every professional sport has it. why should some people have a advantage over others who dont use drugs. i hate playing bathroom champs.

frankwhite
12-04-2007, 11:54 PM
I was thinking the same thing! I'm sure as hell that that won't go over at all!


Well, smoke n pack or whatver his name is dosent think that was a liable quote!!! LOL
He is from Europe, maybe he has not visited the states......:rolleyes:

So w/ that bing said, whats up "DoleFace"??? Tony just called me, he talked to the other side....Call me tomorrow I will explain!
Frankie

frankwhite
12-04-2007, 11:57 PM
These odds just went up at the Mirage concerning this tour:

odds of a single event ever happening 11-1
odds that Kevin Trudeau is behind this tour 3-1
odds that some moron will actually pay the $2500 before the first event 1-5
odds that Deno Andrews will submit an application for employment 1-3
odds that NAACP sues the tour for initial infringements 2-1


LOL Hilarious LOL

frankwhite
12-05-2007, 12:02 AM
Let's just say that I hope those who have to take pain pills for their aches and pains can provide a prescription. :eek:

Beer isn't a problem because it doesn't stay in your system after 24 hours. :D

Cannabis consumption could present a problem for those who indulge because it can remain in one's system for up to 30 days. :o

JAM


LOL Thank you for your input, even though some thought it was a dumb question.....LOL
Frankie

frankwhite
12-05-2007, 12:19 AM
The new tour is for real and we are meeting with them soon. AZB will put up whatever info they allow about their efforts next week. Kevin Trudeau is not involved in any way. Be patient and stay tuned to the AZB front page. We have had initial contacts and can tell you that formal announcements will come soon and that the men with whom we have spoken are sincere and very serious about growing the game.

That is great to hear, thank you Jerry................
Frankie

smokeandapancak
12-05-2007, 01:55 AM
Well, smoke n pack or whatver his name is dosent think that was a liable quote!!! LOL
He is from Europe, maybe he has not visited the states......:rolleyes:

So w/ that bing said, whats up "DoleFace"??? Tony just called me, he talked to the other side....Call me tomorrow I will explain!
Frankie


Not real sure what liable quote is ..but hey whatever.......

If pool is ever gonna make it, and making it is the goal of this tour, then it has to been somewhat clean.. at least play the game by trying to look clean.

Nobody wants to watch an post match interview with some tweaker all G'ed up... pathetic....

Oh yeah ... last but not least.....not from Europe, guy..... I was born and raised in Macon Ga....

JAM
12-05-2007, 02:20 AM
LOL Thank you for your input, even though some thought it was a dumb question.....LOL
Frankie

It is a legitimate inquiry, Frankie. There is no secret that prescription drugs is now an epidemic in the United States.

The problem is not just contained to the pool world. It is a societal norm to pop a pill for any little ache and pain today. Some doctors prescribe these addictive narcotics, and some patients have a tendency to abuse them, unfortunately.

Marijuana, though illegal in the United States, stays in one's system for up to 30 days. However, if a pro player is intent on pursuing his/her career and is a pot smoker, I would like to think they would not have a problem with abstaining, but it ain't no secret that some do not deem marijuana as the root to all evils that others do.

Though cocaine used to be the epidemic drug, I think it has been replaced with prescription drug abuse today.

On a good note, most, quote/unquote, "sports" figures today are drug-tested for steroids. I don't think we will ever have that problem with pool players. :D

Oh, Frankie, the picture is in the mail. You should receive it today, I hope!

JAM

JAM
12-05-2007, 02:26 AM
Your right, billiards has always needed ONE Controlling Authority. All sports at the professional level need ONE Controlling Authority to prosper as long as that ONE in power will do what is good for the sport and not what is good for themselves first. It has to be a WIN WIN situation but the sport must be on the high end of the deal for it to prosper and grow!! This is very interesting and I think we all hope this is legit!! We'll see!

I definitely agree with you, JGPool. However, you may remember when the IPT came to the fore, the WPA requested that the IPT sanction the IPT events with the WPA, to which the IPT refused.

If this new tour is the ONE controlling authority, will they sanction with the WPA? Will the WPBA allow their members to compete on the new tour? Will the new tour allow its members to compete on the WPBA? These are the questions that I had in my mind.

Of course, it is early in the tour development now, but these are questions which will have to be addressed at some point.

I heard recently that the UPA is going overseas to the ASEAN countries for future events. If this is true, then this new tour is coming at the right time for American male pros.

I read recently that the WPA expelled the Pan-American Pool Federation, and there was no reason given, other than the WPA did not like the way the Pan-American Pool Federation conducted itself, or words to that effect. It was a stock bureaucratic mumbo jumbo explanation, with no meat to it.

Is the WPA, in fact, the controlling authority of pool in the world?

JAM

frankwhite
12-05-2007, 03:19 AM
It is a legitimate inquiry, Frankie. There is no secret that prescription drugs is now an epidemic in the United States.

The problem is not just contained to the pool world. It is a societal norm to pop a pill for any little ache and pain today. Some doctors prescribe these addictive narcotics, and some patients have a tendency to abuse them, unfortunately.

Marijuana, though illegal in the United States, stays in one's system for up to 30 days. However, if a pro player is intent on pursuing his/her career and is a pot smoker, I would like to think they would not have a problem with abstaining, but it ain't no secret that some do not deem marijuana as the root to all evils that others do.

Though cocaine used to be the epidemic drug, I think it has been replaced with prescription drug abuse today.

On a good note, most, quote/unquote, "sports" figures today are drug-tested for steroids. I don't think we will ever have that problem with pool players. :D

Oh, Frankie, the picture is in the mail. You should receive it today, I hope!

JAM


Your the best, Oh! Have I said that before.......LOL

frankwhite
12-05-2007, 03:30 AM
Not real sure what liable quote is ..but hey whatever.......

If pool is ever gonna make it, and making it is the goal of this tour, then it has to been somewhat clean.. at least play the game by trying to look clean.

Nobody wants to watch an post match interview with some tweaker all G'ed up... pathetic....

Oh yeah ... last but not least.....not from Europe, guy..... I was born and raised in Macon Ga....

Well, really wasnt sure what you ment, "GUY". I happen to agree w/ you "GUY". I was one of those players w/ the pill problem, "GUY". This is why I asked what I asked, "GUY". And I had asked it to a very special friend of mine(Jam), "GUY".......Thanks for your input "GUY"...
Frankie

smokeandapancak
12-05-2007, 03:39 AM
No problem ,guy..........

randyg
12-05-2007, 06:42 AM
When I read, I check on ways they plan to pull a profit.
They list venues with 2500 seats for fans what area other than Asian countries would pull that many fans to watch pro's play? Can anyone give us a number of the amount of spectators at the WPC? Even the IPT with one hell of an arena didnt fill seating. They show multiple cameras for an interactive arena, this could possibly cut into people showing up at venues if they can watch from home and no longer need to pay for the hotel/travel fees for the price of an online ticket. I would be first in line to buy dvd's that acted as an interactive dvd on each match. Imagine the ability to switch camera angles while watching to see the shot from the view you want. I would pay for the online ticket to be able to watch the entire event from here in Japan and switch between matches or tables at will online. If the events are all held in the US I can't see them pulling a profit in 3 years. If they venue around the world the players can still meet the 41% tournament entry requirement and have the value of the Asian fanfare incomes. Community service question, can you get a tax break for performing community service based on the number of hours? One player 80 hours xtimesx number of players...? Drug free organization I am for because it is what we would need to meet the Olympic requirements. The no gambling...Can Shane still have his Action Challenges? This would be my deal breaker..No Shane no Deal!

Hi Rob...randyg

jgpool
12-05-2007, 07:17 AM
I definitely agree with you, JGPool. However, you may remember when the IPT came to the fore, the WPA requested that the IPT sanction the IPT events with the WPA, to which the IPT refused.

If this new tour is the ONE controlling authority, will they sanction with the WPA? Will the WPBA allow their members to compete on the new tour? Will the new tour allow its members to compete on the WPBA? These are the questions that I had in my mind.

Of course, it is early in the tour development now, but these are questions which will have to be addressed at some point.

I heard recently that the UPA is going overseas to the ASEAN countries for future events. If this is true, then this new tour is coming at the right time for American male pros.

I read recently that the WPA expelled the Pan-American Pool Federation, and there was no reason given, other than the WPA did not like the way the Pan-American Pool Federation conducted itself, or words to that effect. It was a stock bureaucratic mumbo jumbo explanation, with no meat to it.

Is the WPA, in fact, the controlling authority of pool in the world?

JAM

Yes, JAM and Shootingarts. If this new tour wants to eliminate the previous majors, then there is a hurdle to overcome. I hope that is not their intentions. But on the other hand if they are going to provide the best product for the pool world, what's the answer. Hopefully we will find out that they have pool as the priority in this endeavor. We can only keep our fingers crossed.

ScottW
12-05-2007, 07:20 AM
Despite assurances by other posters, this smacks of IPT 2.0 to me. Guess we'll see.

lodini
12-05-2007, 08:33 AM
Yes, JAM and Shootingarts. If this new tour wants to eliminate the previous majors, then there is a hurdle to overcome. I hope that is not their intentions. But on the other hand if they are going to provide the best product for the pool world, what's the answer. Hopefully we will find out that they have pool as the priority in this endeavor. We can only keep our fingers crossed.

Makes me wonder how the regional events would be handled too... like right now, you can enter a regional event and almost be assured to be alongside a pro or two. If they can't play in those, do you guys think that would be good or bad for the regional tours?

kryptonite9
12-05-2007, 09:33 AM
Why do the new tours all shoot for the moon on the prize funds?
22events, 22 million in a year? How about slowly progessing to higher prize funds, not going right to the top?

The total for the last 6 months top six paying tournaments is a touch over $800,000.

WPC - 400,000
USOPEN - 182,000
BCA - 79,100
Pred 10ball - 55,920
World Summit - 45,880
Turning Stone - 41,800

From the current state someone wants to move directly to 22 million?

As for the regional tours, I do not like the fact that the new organization should ban players from attending. This being said, if the new tour has good consistent payouts, the players would not have to play in a regional tour to make a few hundred.

This would increase play at regional events because players would have more of a chance to make money/cover costs. I know I do not like going to regional events and having to battle a large field of strong regional talent, then have to play Ronnie Alcano, Mike Davis, Larry Nevel, etc on top of that. All to finish in the cash and not make enough to cover travel costs. Currently the only people who go to regional events are top players and die hard dedicated players. Other good players do not enter because the talent is too high to even risk and entry fee and travel costs.

CrownCityCorey
12-05-2007, 09:57 AM
I read recently that the WPA expelled the Pan-American Pool Federation, and there was no reason given, other than the WPA did not like the way the Pan-American Pool Federation conducted itself, or words to that effect. It was a stock bureaucratic mumbo jumbo explanation, with no meat to it.

Is the WPA, in fact, the controlling authority of pool in the world?

JAM

Read the recent issue of BD and they say the reason was that the federation sided with the attempted coup of the ACS with regard to the BCA's relationship with WPA.

Acronyms rule!

supergreenman
12-05-2007, 10:16 AM
drug testing is a great idea. every professional sport has it. why should some people have a advantage over others who dont use drugs. i hate playing bathroom champs.

I can't think of a single drug in existance that could be classified as performance enhancing when it comes to cue sports.

Prove me wrong I dare you.

Johnnyt
12-05-2007, 10:25 AM
I can't think of a single drug in existance that could be classified as performance enhancing when it comes to cue sports.

Prove me wrong I dare you.

I've had a few that I was beating easy before they went into the bathroom for awhile. When they came back they were champions. Johnnyt

iba7467
12-05-2007, 10:27 AM
I can't think of a single drug in existance that could be classified as performance enhancing when it comes to cue sports.

Prove me wrong I dare you.

Not that I agree with the bathroom champs, but I can assure you after 30+ hours of non-stop play there are many drugs that could be classified as performance enhancing as the alternative would be falling out.

ScottW
12-05-2007, 10:29 AM
I doubt the whole drug thing has anything to do with performance enhancement. More likely, it's to do with trying to 'clean up' the sport, image-wise.

You could bet cold hard cash that if *I* was one of their backers, putting that much cash on the line, I'd insist on certain standards. That would be one of them.

Rick S.
12-05-2007, 10:43 AM
Ooops

Rick S.

corvette1340
12-05-2007, 10:44 AM
All of the major sports test for not only "performance enhancers" but all other drugs as well. The NFL has suspended a huge number of players with their substance abuse policy. The bottom line is this: It doesn't matter what job you have, NFL player, Pool Player, stockbroker, lawyer, etc...etc..., if the rule states no drugs or you will be fired, then you have to be foolish to break it. IMO

cheesemouse
12-05-2007, 11:02 AM
I can't think of a single drug in existance that could be classified as performance enhancing when it comes to cue sports.

Prove me wrong I dare you.

The proof is in fighting off a chemical attack every 30 minutes by a guy who comes back from his privy break looking like he just eat a powered biscuit and then puts a three pack on you...:)

Poolfiend
12-05-2007, 11:15 AM
I can't think of a single drug in existance that could be classified as performance enhancing when it comes to cue sports.

Prove me wrong I dare you.

I can't prove you wrong, but I've heard that Ritalin and other drugs like it, when taken by people without ADHD, provides hours of increased focus and concentration. There was a rumor floating around that one of the top Pro's was using a Ritalin substitute. Just a rumor.

kryptonite9
12-05-2007, 11:15 AM
People wonder why pool has a bad image, yet someone is starting a 22 million dollar tour and most of the discussion is concerning a drug testing policy. Nice.

AngryPanda
12-05-2007, 11:46 AM
I can't think of a single drug in existance that could be classified as performance enhancing when it comes to cue sports.

Prove me wrong I dare you.
There are certain Amphetamines that help with focusing. That was one of the issues baseball has

smokeandapancak
12-05-2007, 12:20 PM
People wonder why pool has a bad image, yet someone is starting a 22 million dollar tour and most of the discussion is concerning a drug testing policy. Nice.

The above is the most telling and insightful post I have ever read on this forum..........

supergreenman
12-05-2007, 12:24 PM
People wonder why pool has a bad image, yet someone is starting a 22 million dollar tour and most of the discussion is concerning a drug testing policy. Nice.

Actually my main concern would be the tours desire to turn players into propriatary objects. Not allowing them to compete in other tours without thier permission.

This pretty much makes the tour the pimp and the players HOs.

smokeandapancak
12-05-2007, 12:28 PM
Actually my main concern would be the tours desire to turn players into propriatary objects. Not allowing them to compete in other tours without thier permission.

This pretty much makes the tour the pimp and the players HOs.


As EVERY other Organizational body in EVERY other (legit) sport does....

KEEP THAT PIMP HAND STRONG.................................

ScottW
12-05-2007, 12:31 PM
This pretty much makes the tour the pimp and the players HOs.

Would that make them "The Tour Director Named Slickback"? :D

(For those scratching their heads... watch "The Boondocks" on Cartoon Network - it's freaking hilarious)

frankwhite
12-05-2007, 12:58 PM
Your the best, Oh! Have I said that before.......LOL

Recieved, thank you Jenny. "GIMMI A LIL NUMBA NOW" This is going right in my living room.....

jgpool
12-05-2007, 01:13 PM
Makes me wonder how the regional events would be handled too... like right now, you can enter a regional event and almost be assured to be alongside a pro or two. If they can't play in those, do you guys think that would be good or bad for the regional tours?

If this assumption is correct then I think it would be at the outset bad for the regional tourneys. Hopefully they would look at all the consequences of their restrictions and keep the betterment of billiards their foremost goal. Put the game ahead of pers gain. We can only hope they want to create the best possible product. :)

nineballcc
12-05-2007, 01:22 PM
I just happened to find this thread today as a result of doing some research for a pro player. He called asking what I thought of the NACPBA - and asked me to look into it.

A couple of items...
1. I noticed the question about gambling came up in this thread. On the web site it says No Gambling at an NACPBA event. That should clear up the issue - it doesn't prevent players from gambling anywhere else.

2. The amateurs are being taken from a qualifying league system....sounds to me like the plans are to get the backing and financial support of a league (APA, BCA, TAP) we all know that's where the big revenues are currently.

3. Players must get pre-approval of sponsorship deals...wow...for players that don't currently have sponsors, this isn't an issue, but for those who do, they could lose their sponsors if the NACPBA doesn't approve or if the NACPBA isn't getting sponsorship from those sponsors.

4. The final A in NACPBA is for Associations...emphasis on the plural...how many Professional Billiard Associations do we have that are pulling together into this Confederation?

I guess I have more issues than I thought...

5. No tournament entry fee is currently posted.

6. I'm a stickler for grammar and punctuation especially when it comes to web sites...enough said.

I'm hesitant to get excited for the players here, I am hopeful that something can be pulled off for the players.

As for the Regional Tours...as my friend the pro actually stated...more players would like to play the Regional Tours if they knew they stood a better chance and the pro's weren't able to play.

Someone else said it earlier, if a tour is strong enough, they won't worry about attempting to eliminate other tours. They'll keep doing their business and the tours will have to step up their game, or work with the new changes.

nineballcc
12-05-2007, 01:29 PM
One more thing...someone asked about the referee structure...

I'm a BCA Certified National Referee - I don't play in any leagues, but I went through the training, which includes tests, classroom time and floor time at the BCA in Vegas for two years running.

I am listed as a potential local league referee if there is a league event in the area that would require a referee, however I am not your local league player.

Just wanted to clear up the confusion about why they would use a local league referee... that doesn't mean an amateur league player. It means a referee in the area that has been through the training.

frankwhite
12-05-2007, 01:30 PM
I just happened to find this thread today as a result of doing some research for a pro player. He called asking what I thought of the NACPBA - and asked me to look into it.

A couple of items...
1. I noticed the question about gambling came up in this thread. On the web site it says No Gambling at an NACPBA event. That should clear up the issue - it doesn't prevent players from gambling anywhere else.

2. The amateurs are being taken from a qualifying league system....sounds to me like the plans are to get the backing and financial support of a league (APA, BCA, TAP) we all know that's where the big revenues are currently.

3. Players must get pre-approval of sponsorship deals...wow...for players that don't currently have sponsors, this isn't an issue, but for those who do, they could lose their sponsors if the NACPBA doesn't approve or if the NACPBA isn't getting sponsorship from those sponsors.

4. The final A in NACPBA is for Associations...emphasis on the plural...how many Professional Billiard Associations do we have that are pulling together into this Confederation?

I guess I have more issues than I thought...

5. No tournament entry fee is currently posted.

6. I'm a stickler for grammar and punctuation especially when it comes to web sites...enough said.

I'm hesitant to get excited for the players here, I am hopeful that something can be pulled off for the players.

As for the Regional Tours...as my friend the pro actually stated...more players would like to play the Regional Tours if they knew they stood a better chance and the pro's weren't able to play.

Someone else said it earlier, if a tour is strong enough, they won't worry about attempting to eliminate other tours. They'll keep doing their business and the tours will have to step up their game, or work with the new changes.


I agree w/ you....And you are correct in the manner of, if you run a great tour, no others should matter to you. I will place a example here, "The Joss Tour". Mike happens to be a good friend of mine, he places no interest in what other tourny's are doing. This is because he knows what he has is strong....Great post NineBall.
Frankie

kevin s
12-05-2007, 02:38 PM
If this really establishes a real pro tour I hope the regional tournament will follow suit allowing only amateurs to play. I believe the participation would increase if the hand full of pros that win this events EVERYTIME were banned. Several of my friends do not like to donate their money if they feel like they do not have a chance to win. And they are good players! Perhaps the regional tours could be a qualifying platform and that would be good for everyone.

I also would like to see this new tour ( if it's for real ) unify with the major tournaments by sanctioning them and working together. The US Open , Derby City , Turning Stone , Reno open and others would really be amazing if they were given those monies to their prize pools and allowed to continue their traditions. Reward them for their hard work over the years and add to it.

trizzat
12-05-2007, 02:39 PM
[QUOTE=nineballcc]

5. No tournament entry fee is currently posted.

On the tournament page there is an entry fee of $500 for regular season events listed and it says there is no entry fee for the post season tournaments.

I just noticed this and figured i'd post it.

Here's the link to the page, look about halfway down. http://www.nacpba.com/tournament.asp#seaonschedules

JCIN
12-05-2007, 03:40 PM
[QUOTE=nineballcc]

5. No tournament entry fee is currently posted.

On the tournament page there is an entry fee of $500 for regular season events listed and it says there is no entry fee for the post season tournaments.

I just noticed this and figured i'd post it.

Here's the link to the page, look about halfway down. http://www.nacpba.com/tournament.asp#seaonschedules
Nice catch. Looks good. Just enough to make someone be serious about it.

I am really curious to see where this goes.

Jack Flanagan
12-06-2007, 05:07 PM
seems funny to me that this new wannabe tour only rated 2 threads on AZ and apparently zero threads anywhere else. (correct me if I missed any on some other forum) then all the initial fervor died a natural death after digressing into a drug testing debate.

the other thread is here,,, http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=81895

then somebody posted an IPT announcement from a German site and already there are three threads heating up on this forum. looks like a lot of people are holding on to a broken promise of big things from the IPT.

ask youself, what did the IPT actually do for the pool world in 2007 ? sent out a few checks (which I think was good for those few players), but nothing to help the already too tarnished image of pool and the IPT.

maybe the name of the new venue, N.A.C.P.B.A., is to big of a mouthful for people to immediately grasp and repeat to someone. the short, I.P.T. was easy to grasp and to use in a conversation. unfortunately, it was easily remembered and now a lot of people just can't seem to forget it and move forward.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,j

...and P. T. Barnum is/was still RIGHT !

COLLECTION GURU
12-06-2007, 08:57 PM
Has anyone heard of this new tour? Trying to get some more information about it. The membership requirements are ... WOW! But it could be quite interesting if it were legit.

Is this legit? Anyone know?

http://www.nacpba.com/

I COMPLETED THE FORM FOR INFO AND WAS PROMISED A RESPONSE WITHIN
48 HOURS; 47 TO GO. WILL KEEP THIS SITE POSTED.

COLLECTION GURU
COLLECTIONGURU@GMAIL.COM

Jack Flanagan
12-06-2007, 11:18 PM
way past that time, Guru,,,don't think they're gonna call. better luck next time. :D

Jack Flanagan
12-07-2007, 12:16 PM
:rolleyes: it just came to me...the IPT announcement was put out as a marketing ploy to kill any chances of the new group, NACPBA, had of succeeding. GOOD ONE, KT,,,you still got the touch ! :eek:

COLLECTION GURU
12-07-2007, 02:55 PM
Looks legit to me! I already paypal'd the guy my $2500, can't wait for the first event. I just hope Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton don't show up thinking its a N.A.A.C.P event instead of an N.A.C.P.B.A event.

NEW POOL LEAGUE FOR GENERAL MOTOR EMAIL ADDRESSES!!!!!!!!!!! $5000 MONTHLY DUES WITH $500,000 PAID ON EVERY 4/01 AFTER 12 CONSECUTIVE MONTHS OF PAID DUES!!!!!!!!!!! IT IS GUARANTEED BY THE COLLECTION GURU. SEND MONEY TO GURU AT P..O. BOX 0U812, FLORIDA

corvette1340
12-07-2007, 02:58 PM
NEW POOL LEAGUE FOR GENERAL MOTOR EMAIL ADDRESSES!!!!!!!!!!! $5000 MONTHLY DUES WITH $500,000 PAID ON EVERY 4/01 AFTER 12 CONSECUTIVE MONTHS OF PAID DUES!!!!!!!!!!! IT IS GUARANTEED BY THE COLLECTION GURU. SEND MONEY TO GURU AT P..O. BOX 0U812, FLORIDA


sounds legit to me. What is your paypal address?

COLLECTION GURU
12-07-2007, 03:06 PM
I got mine, where is yours?
VERY FUNNY; YOU CAN ALMOST WRITE!!!!

GURU

corvette1340
12-07-2007, 03:16 PM
VERY FUNNY; YOU CAN ALMOST WRITE!!!!

GURU


I will be in Warsaw, Poland for the Nuclear Summit on Monday if you are in town then we could meet there. After that I'm flying into Bogata, Columbia to check up on the Administration Against Better Drug Trafficing and make sure things are going well on that front. Other than that, I'll just be sitting here at my desk playing internet poker and looking at some free porn. Let me know.

COLLECTION GURU
12-08-2007, 07:49 AM
I will be in Warsaw, Poland for the Nuclear Summit on Monday if you are in town then we could meet there. After that I'm flying into Bogata, Columbia to check up on the Administration Against Better Drug Trafficing and make sure things are going well on that front. Other than that, I'll just be sitting here at my desk playing internet poker and looking at some free porn. Let me know.

DON'T GO; IT IS A TEST SITE NOT A SUMMIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ironman
12-08-2007, 08:55 AM
It looks as though they don't plan on dealing at all... one of the rules is "Members may not participate in billiards activities outside the NACPBA without prior approval from the NACPBA." This may or may not mean that its members won't be able to play anywhere else. But with 31 events per year, who would have time!?

(Not that this is a bad thing at all... maybe this is the one unified tour everyone has been waiting for??)

31 events per year is a very hectic schedule for anyone.

ironman
12-08-2007, 09:15 AM
I can't think of a single drug in existance that could be classified as performance enhancing when it comes to cue sports.

Prove me wrong I dare you.

There are many we could dig up that would disagree.

Johnnyt
12-08-2007, 05:48 PM
After reading the BD piece on the main page here at AZ, I have a hunch this might be for real. I like the fact that they don't want the $2500 right away. I also have a feeling that your going to see close to the top 128 on this tour, not the Bernies and "I use to be greats" like the IPT. I like the fact that their not trying to kiss anyons ass. If you don't feel right about it...don't join. If they showed the purse money is in the bank and I was a player...I'd sign up and play. What difference does it make where the money came from at this point. The other tour was funded with money stolen from the old and the sick. Look at what Don King has done for boxing...and he's a convicted murderer. Johnnyt

Johnnyt
12-08-2007, 05:55 PM
Isn't Ted Turner from Georgia? Does he play pool? ;) Johnnyt

beav99_4life
12-08-2007, 06:32 PM
I've been waiting to see more information on this before giving any kind of opinion. With the newest cover page story on AZ about this newly formed tour, I feel as skeptical as ever. This may sound simple, but I havent seen too many multi-million dollar businesses or ventures that have or would establish a web site with so many gramatical errors. First impressions and presentation are everything for emerging businesses. Another thing that worries me is the tour's director failing to give any credible answers to where the money is coming from, especially with all of the failed and disappointing billiard ventures that have been attempted in the past. If I were in his position, it would be my initial goal to present as much information as possible to cement the credibility of the tour in the minds of both the players and the billiard community. This is just of course my initial response and opinion, perhaps it will change in a few months when Mr. Dennis says he will give more in depth information on the financing and formatting of the tournaments.

jay helfert
12-08-2007, 07:53 PM
Another dreamer without a clue. JMO as always.

Jack Flanagan
12-08-2007, 10:41 PM
I'm curious about this new venture, too. I wonder why someone didn't proof read or at least have a spell check running.

still think they (whoever) should have spent some time coming up with a "catchier" name. it's all about marketing, the better sounding organization gets better, almost instant recognition.

this group/idea has a long way to go before it kicks off. unfortunately the other bunch (IPT) has jumped in the fray with grandious promises again.

I'll wait until a background check of the principals in the NACPBA has been done. the pool world doesn't need another KT. I'm hoping he (KT) is one of a kind and will soon be smiling through steel bars. ...............JMHO

sjm
12-08-2007, 11:19 PM
Here we go again.

Let's assume the would-be proprietor is reputable and has the sport's best interest at heart. There is still a problem here.

The problem is that to sign up, one must invest $2,500. One must also grant this new organization one's exclusive rights, with participation in events unaffiliated with their tour on a special permission basis only. For the typical pro pool player, these are huge commitments.

What is being offered in return for these commitments? Until there are good answers to this question, there is not as much as a foundation on which to build. I won't be a naysayer here, but a plan to spend money does not constitute a business plan. Until the revenue source of this origanization is identified that will make this business venture financially viable, there is nothing exciting here..............so let's be patient and perhaps this information will be made public soon.

smashmouth
12-08-2007, 11:28 PM
about the only aspect of this that seems even remotely legit is the pre order with Diamond Tables

Jaden
12-09-2007, 12:03 AM
Here we go again.

Let's assume the would-be proprietor is reputable and has the sport's best interest at heart. There is still a problem here.

The problem is that to sign up, one must invest $2,500. One must also grant this new organization one's exclusive rights, with participation in events unaffiliated with their tour on a special permission basis only. For the typical pro pool player, these are huge commitments.

What is being offered in return for these commitments? Until there are good answers to this question, there is not as much as a foundation on which to build. I won't be a naysayer here, but a plan to spend money does not constitute a business plan. Until the revenue source of this origanization is identified that will make this business venture financially viable, there is nothing exciting here..............so let's be patient and perhaps this information will be made public soon.


I keep hearing this and I'm kind of flabbergasted. Look if 22 million dollars is set up in a varifiably escrowed account for the payouts and the tournament formats are what they claim with 20 tournaments in a year, this tour is all the professional elite would need. It;s a commitment with dividends. I can actually see where this would be going. If the majority of the top professionals DO sign on then that would give this new tour the levarage against the other tours and what not to actually BECOME the definitve authority for professional pool. It's hard, without a track record, to know whether or not that would be a good thing or a bad thing, but with the current status of pool, it can't be too bad a thing after what the IPT has already done.

punter
12-09-2007, 12:04 AM
deleted...

JCIN
12-09-2007, 12:33 AM
Bottom line is this. If they post $22 mil in a verifiable manner and show that the venues are in line for the events everything else will be moot. They will become the defacto ruling force in American pool. Players and fans will cry and moan about certain aspects as we do in everything. As long as they simply do what they say they will, no matter if it is unpopular in certain circles, they will have the dominant entity in American pool.

I know if I was fronting that kind of dough you are damn skippy things are gonna be done my way. Let's be honest, the way things have been ran the last 30 years is what has gotten us to this point.

The other issue, for me personally, is that they could effectively kill TheActionReport in its current form by not sanctioning our events. I hope that does not happen obviously, but if they do decide to do that and go on to run a succesful and viable tour that raises the game up I could live with it. But the issue for now is that we simply do not know and will have to wait and see. There is really no gray area here IMO. Either they post or they don't. If they post they can and will do whatever they like.

I would not discount the possibility that the website up now could very well be a stalking horse designed to find the issues they will most need to address in the official announcement. There are a few threads here of valuable market reasearch that cost them nothing more than a web template and some hosting fees. Or it could all just be a pipe dream. We won't know until we know.

JAM
12-09-2007, 01:34 AM
Here we go again.

Let's assume the would-be proprietor is reputable and has the sport's best interest at heart. There is still a problem here.

The problem is that to sign up, one must invest $2,500. One must also grant this new organization one's exclusive rights, with participation in events unaffiliated with their tour on a special permission basis only. For the typical pro pool player, these are huge commitments.

What is being offered in return for these commitments? Until there are good answers to this question, there is not as much as a foundation on which to build. I won't be a naysayer here, but a plan to spend money does not constitute a business plan. Until the revenue source of this origanization is identified that will make this business venture financially viable, there is nothing exciting here..............so let's be patient and perhaps this information will be made public soon.

I agree that we all should be in a wait-and-see mode at this juncture, with such little information available at this time.

Considering that $2,500, the proposed membership dues, is equivalent to the amount of first-place prize monies at the majority of pool tournaments in the United States, I would have liked to have received more optimistic information, rather than the attitude that was conveyed by Dennis in the article written by Mason King of Billiards Digest.

If the tour doesn't give a damn about what pool players think about them, that speaks loud and clear to this reader, more so than the information about the tour itself.

JAM

av84fun
12-09-2007, 01:34 AM
JCIN... "First is of course the money. As I read it there will be $22 mil in escrow."

Getting it IN to escrow is one thing...getting it OUT is another!

watchez
12-09-2007, 01:36 AM
.........and KT gives a damn about the pool player:confused:

av84fun
12-09-2007, 01:49 AM
Isn't Ted Turner from Georgia? Does he play pool? ;) Johnnyt

turner now owns Montana and is reputedly working on Kansas, Nebraska and S. Dakota.

1.7 MILLION acres and counting.

I think he and Jane Fonda got divorced because they couldn't FIND each other anymore.
(-:

av84fun
12-09-2007, 02:00 AM
There are certain Amphetamines that help with focusing. That was one of the issues baseball has

Right...and I'm not sure that performance enhancement is the entire issue or the reason the drugies are drugies. They are drugies in most cases because they are addicts and/or supporting themselves by dealing.

Illicit drug sales and use are ripping the guts out of this country and causing unimaginable heartache, wasted lives and enormous squandering of money.

As far as I'm concerned, jail is too good for anyone who deals addictive drugs. It is just a sickening and tragic enterprise...and I ain't sending no Christmas cards to any inmates who got what was coming to them.

There are those who may hate my guts for posting these remarks but I will find a way to live with that...EASILY.

Regards,
Jim

JCIN
12-09-2007, 02:21 AM
JCIN... "First is of course the money. As I read it there will be $22 mil in escrow."

Getting it IN to escrow is one thing...getting it OUT is another!
LOL...you have a point there.

I know if I was the dude running this thing, everytime someone in the money got knocked out I would have a check printed and in his hand instantly. No need to wait on Fed Ex or the home office. :p

The backlash from the IPT will make sure everyone and their brother is on the lookout for suspect money handling. Not a bad thing I guess.

av84fun
12-09-2007, 02:55 AM
LOL...you have a point there.

I know if I was the dude running this thing, everytime someone in the money got knocked out I would have a check printed and in his hand instantly. No need to wait on Fed Ex or the home office. :p

The backlash from the IPT will make sure everyone and their brother is on the lookout for suspect money handling. Not a bad thing I guess.

Right...and while hope springs eternal anyone who signs on to this or any other start up deal without the funds being in a TRUST account at a reputable financial institution, law or accounting firm under irrevocable instructions to pay out the money to the winners are pretty much asking for trouble.


That was the WHOLE ISSUE with the IPT. The players got conned into an almost desperate belief that the money A) existed and B) would be paid out FOR SURE.

Many had their doubts but just adopted the attitude that it was worth the RISK to "play some" and hope for the best...and if they didn't, others WOULD.

But that is the MECHANISM by which almost all cons work. Many marks have their suspicions but the payoff is so significant and they NEED the money so badly that they allow themselves to be taken in.

Chuck Berry had it right. He never played the first note or sang the first lyric until he was paid...IN FULL...UP FRONT...IN CASH!

(-:

ShootingArts
12-09-2007, 07:51 AM
Different field but Chuck Berry was an old road dog that could tell tales of the road to make pool players stories pale in comparison.

Hearing that the money is no issue without seeing the money always makes me very skeptical. Every time I have heard that money was no issue it was true . . . because the people didn't have any! I think players and onlookers all will be more than satisfied if the money for each event is put up several months in advance so that people making plans know that they will be paid but I'd be willing to bet a few hundred yankee dollars right now that we never see 22 million in a lump in an escrow account.

Hu

sjm
12-09-2007, 08:44 AM
I posted:

Here we go again.

Let's assume the would-be proprietor is reputable and has the sport's best interest at heart. There is still a problem here.

The problem is that to sign up, one must invest $2,500. One must also grant this new organization one's exclusive rights, with participation in events unaffiliated with their tour on a special permission basis only. For the typical pro pool player, these are huge commitments.

What is being offered in return for these commitments? Until there are good answers to this question, there is not as much as a foundation on which to build. I won't be a naysayer here, but a plan to spend money does not constitute a business plan. Until the revenue source of this origanization is identified that will make this business venture financially viable, there is nothing exciting here..............so let's be patient and perhaps this information will be made public soon.

Jaden replied:

I keep hearing this and I'm kind of flabbergasted. Look if 22 million dollars is set up in a varifiably escrowed account for the payouts and the tournament formats are what they claim with 20 tournaments in a year, this tour is all the professional elite would need. It;s a commitment with dividends. I can actually see where this would be going. If the majority of the top professionals DO sign on then that would give this new tour the levarage against the other tours and what not to actually BECOME the definitve authority for professional pool. It's hard, without a track record, to know whether or not that would be a good thing or a bad thing, but with the current status of pool, it can't be too bad a thing after what the IPT has already done.

This is a very well considered response. What I'm getting at in my post is that the escrowing of the money is unlikely unless the proprietor manages to get the revenue sources in place to fund it, and that it concerns me that, just as was the case with the IPT, little is offered from the would-be proprietor with respect to where the revenue will come from.

As we learned with KT, assuming that there is a guy who simply wants to risk this kind of money just because they love pool is a pipe dream. Even somebody who has the money is likely to be a successful businessman. With successful businessmen, until they see the revenue prospects, they don't commit to the expenses.

I, just like others, am hopeful here, and I eagerly await further information.

lodini
12-09-2007, 08:57 AM
LOL...you have a point there.

I know if I was the dude running this thing, everytime someone in the money got knocked out I would have a check printed and in his hand instantly. No need to wait on Fed Ex or the home office. :p

The backlash from the IPT will make sure everyone and their brother is on the lookout for suspect money handling. Not a bad thing I guess.

Viola! (According to the NACPBA website)

"The athlete has the right to request his payment at the completion of his final match"

Fragged
12-09-2007, 09:08 AM
Viola! (According to the NACPBA website)

"The athlete has the right to request his payment at the completion of his final match"

and
I have a right to request that Jessica Alba accompany me to dinner monday night.


I say the over under is 3 tournaments. As SJM said, where does the revenue come from? To date no one has been able to figure out how to get that kind of return from a pool tournament. Certainly not 31 tournaments or whatever it is.

Now these guys who obviously have no clue about pool think they have solved that with a great new secret plan? Maybe they will start a 24 hour Billiard Channel- Yeah that's the ticket!

steveharn
12-09-2007, 09:24 AM
Sounds like Jerry's got "cabin fever"!

Johnnyt
12-09-2007, 09:26 AM
After years and years and years of people with billiard back grounds that are suppose to know what their doing have failed, maybe we just need some people with money and know how to build a business. Johnnyt

pooldawg1
12-09-2007, 09:54 AM
$2500 times 128=$320,000. Whos going to fund his trip to another country.

pooldawg1
12-09-2007, 09:59 AM
My question is why can't someone just put together 12 events a year with about the same payouts as the US open. Why does someone try to do too much and crash after a few events. I hope this doesn't offend anyone but pool is not a million dollar sport or talent. I have always loved playing or watching a good game but I am convinced anyone can play the sport well with little time invested.

Blackjack
12-09-2007, 10:11 AM
I had not heard of this tour at all until Scott Lee brought it up briefly during a phone conversation that we had on Thursday.

I received two other phone calls and two PM's about it and I had absolutely no idea what it was or who was behind it.

I checked out the website and found it to be poorly put together, sort of a rushed job IMO. It does not look like a first class web site like the IPT had.

For giggles I submitted the application and received an error message. Perhaps they have my IP address blocked and I'm barred from this tour as well?

:D

With the downfall of the IPT in 2006, it has made it extremely difficult for ANYONE to follow in their footsteps to create anything viable and worthwhile for pool players. The investors will not invest in anything that has proven to have a failing track record with other investors. I'm not being negative, I am just stating the facts, and this is coming from somebody that has tried.

There is no collusion within the billiards industry. The players are not going to trust anybody so easily after what happened with the IPT. Anyone that tries to start a new tour will have an uphill battle, no matter how much money you generate.

Money is not the major issue with professional pool. The IPT proved that. We can have million dollar prize funds out the kazoo, but if we cannot market the sport outside our VERY SMALL market, then we will fail every single time.

Tournament pool has not, will not, will never sell to Joe Q. Public. Race to 7, race to 9, winner breaks, loser breaks, 10 ball, 7 ball, 9 ball, 8 ball, nobody could give a rat's ass outside the small spectrum of diehard fans who actually do give a rat's ass - and the number of rat's ass givers are fewer than you would think.

I don't know Mr. Dennis. I have never talked to him. I have nothing to do with this alphabet soup spawned tour, and FWIW I am in not in any position of power within the UPA as has been reported privately to other people within this forum. With that out of the way, I do have a suggestion for Mr. Dennis.

Get with Justin & Chad of the Action Challenge and invest this prize money into one on one matchups - main events and undercards in all 4 of those disciplines - and please please please - don't ignore the game of Bank Pool - it deserves the proper respect and dignity that has been given to the other games.

Other than that, business as usual in the billiards industry.

Schmohawk
12-09-2007, 10:11 AM
My question is why can't someone just put together 12 events a year with about the same payouts as the US open. Why does someone try to do too much and crash after a few events. I hope this doesn't offend anyone but pool is not a million dollar sport or talent. I have always loved playing or watching a good game but I am convinced anyone can play the sport well with little time invested.

.....It took the US Open 30 years to get there remember. AT the start there were less than 30 entrants in a pool room that sat 35 tops! Try 12 of those and you will lose on everyone for 3-5 years minimum. That is still a lot of cash to burn.

Jaden
12-09-2007, 10:17 AM
My question is why can't someone just put together 12 events a year with about the same payouts as the US open. Why does someone try to do too much and crash after a few events. I hope this doesn't offend anyone but pool is not a million dollar sport or talent. I have always loved playing or watching a good game but I am convinced anyone can play the sport well with little time invested.


I hope this is just a jibe, because if you think that high level pool is easy, you're smoking crack and if you think that the top players don't deserve better than to be just scraping by, then you have no business playin pool at all IMO. I understand trying to ease the sport forward so that part of your post I feel is legitimate, but to say that anyone can play top level pool without a lot of effort is a shot in the face to those that have committed themselves to excellent pool.

LC3
12-09-2007, 11:56 AM
Other head-scratching details include a $2,500 membership fee for each of the tour?s projected 128 members and $500-per-event entry fees, although all of the prize money and operating expenses allegedly will be covered by the anonymous investors.

"Nothing worth having is free," said Tim Dennis, director of operations for the NACPBA.
Quite the business acumen behind that answer. :rolleyes: I don't get the impression he's inclined to explain much after this one: "Once the money is verifiable in the bank, who really gives a damn where it came from? That's my approach to that. To be quite honest, if some people have trouble with that, that's their problem." Actually, it's going to be his problem if his lack of openness results in a low turnout. Odd that a semi-pro player with 40 years in the game would show no sensitivity for the concerns of the post-IPT pro pool player.

TSW
12-09-2007, 12:09 PM
He has a typo in his "Mission Statement." Doesn't inspire confidence.

The ONLY way any player should invest substantial time or money in a new IPT-style tour is if the funding is very clear, the revenue stream is apparent, and the payouts are placed in ESCROW prior to the start of play. Businesses routinely use escrow accounts for all manners of transactions; why not a pool tour?

Similarly, the ONLY way any investor should consider putting money into a new pool tour is if the revenue projections are transparent and logical.

This new tour hasn't shown either. It deserves to be ignored until it presents adequate details and projections.

I haven't read this entire thread, so forgive me if this was already mentioned.

JCIN
12-09-2007, 12:45 PM
I think the posting of names and addresses of people who have done no harm on a public board is not right. I don't care if it is public domain. If someone wants to know let them figure out how to look for it.

Why don't we just post Mike Howerton or any other pool site business owners address as well. Look inspector gaget, they will either post or not. The whole CSI thing this early in the game is a little ridiculous.

There is such a thing as PERSEC (personal security regarding info on your name and location) on the internet. Would everyone here enjoy having their name and address posted in the open?

You can hit me with the "People have the right know" but I disagree. If they have done nothing but put up a website and NOT take any money, leave the public posting of personal information out.

I urge you to edit the personal info out of your post. How would you feel if someone did that to you? Posted your name, address, phone number, what your house is worth on here. For what?

Johnnyt
12-09-2007, 01:37 PM
After reading the BD piece on the main page here at AZ, I have a hunch this might be for real. I like the fact that they don't want the $2500 right away. I also have a feeling that your going to see close to the top 128 on this tour, not the Bernies and "I use to be greats" like the IPT. I like the fact that their not trying to kiss anyons ass. If you don't feel right about it...don't join. If they showed the purse money is in the bank and I was a player...I'd sign up and play. What difference does it make where the money came from at this point. The other tour was funded with money stolen from the old and the sick. Look at what Don King has done for boxing...and he's a convicted murderer. Johnnyt

I take back this foolish statement until further notice. I think the feeling I had was gas. Johnnyt

cueandcushion
12-09-2007, 02:23 PM
I can't think of a single drug in existance that could be classified as performance enhancing when it comes to cue sports.

Prove me wrong I dare you.


Imagine how good eveyone would play without alcohol then. Efren wouldn't have a chance against Ronnie. I knew it was holding him back!

AzHousePro
12-09-2007, 02:32 PM
Posting of personal information is not acceptable here. I don't think any of us would like our personal info posted.

Mike

cueandcushion
12-09-2007, 02:43 PM
Asking players to do community service + not gambling = 0 particapants

I was thinking the same thing. :eek: 80 hours community service. No gambling. No alchohol or drug use. Regulated clothing..."What? I cant wear my FUBU with rhinestone $$$$ all over it?" :eek: No way that 50% of the top 200 guys currently on tour can make that cut. The other 50% might be on Paxil for depression if they do! I hope someday that a tour comes along that succeeds. Don't know if this is it though. Seems like they are really wanting to start from scratch in terms of players, reputation, everything! Nascar took a sport based on moonshine running and made it a billion dollar industry. Maybe this is what it takes. I sure know I have NO CLUE what will happen with this whole NACPBA thing. I will be watching from the sidelines. :)

I would like to see a list of current pros that wont gamble at an event, wont drink, can pass a hair follicle drug test, volunteer on a regular basis, always dress really well, behave well. :confused:

Blackjack
12-09-2007, 02:51 PM
I would like to see a list of current pros that wont gamble at an event, wont drink, can pass a hair follicle drug test, volunteer on a regular basis, always dress really well, behave well. :confused:

Tommy Kennedy
David Sapolis
Steve Lillis
Mike Massey
George and Jeanette (Lee) Breedlove
Robin Dodson
Belinda Calhoun
... I bet if I paid Scotty Townsend a few bucks he wouldn't drink at an event, but he'd probably get plastered afterwards... With him, the cussing is another story, though. lol
:p

The drug testing is a requirement for the IOC (International Olympic Committee) as it is part of the their anti-doping policy.

ironman
12-09-2007, 03:06 PM
Tommy Kennedy
David Sapolis
Steve Lillis
Mike Massey
George and Jeanette (Lee) Breedlove
Robin Dodson
Belinda Calhoun
... I bet if I paid Scotty Townsend a few bucks he wouldn't drink at an event, but he'd probably get plastered afterwards... With him, the cussing is another story, though. lol
:p

The drug testing is a requirement for the IOC (International Olympic Committee) as it is part of the their anti-doping policy.

There are many more to add to the list as well, but I won't waste time doing so. As in most walks of life there are more good people than bad. Some just love hovering over the so called bad image like a Vulture.

Fragged
12-09-2007, 03:51 PM
There are many more to add to the list as well, but I won't waste time doing so. As in most walks of life there are more good people than bad. Some just love hovering over the so called bad image like a Vulture.

good people? bad people??

If you go back 20 years there may not be two on that list that would pass ANY of those standards. In fact I would argue a couple might flunk some right now and I wouldnt consider them 'bad'. If you get a job assisting ST Peter, I hope it's well after I am dead!!

Jaden
12-09-2007, 04:01 PM
good people? bad people??

If you go back 20 years there may not be two on that list that would pass ANY of those standards. In fact I would argue a couple might flunk some right now and I wouldnt consider them 'bad'. If you get a job assisting ST Peter, I hope it's well after I am dead!!


Yeah and it's funny that pool has been declining rapidly ever since about twenty years ago. Maybe that fact that you stated had something to do with the popularized negative image of pool.

Fragged
12-09-2007, 04:10 PM
Yeah and it's funny that pool has been declining rapidly ever since about twenty years ago. Maybe that fact that you stated had something to do with the popularized negative image of pool..

I think im too stoned to get what you are saying.:)

SUPERSTAR
12-10-2007, 11:45 AM
Like i said when the IPT was starting up.

I have seen the pool messiah come and go, and i'm not naive when it comes to stuff like this.

SO, if it turns out to be legit, then i'll gladly eat my words, but until then, i'll sit by idly and watch.

The drug testing is a GREAT IDEA.
Get all those frigging pill junkies out of the closet where they belong!

smashmouth
12-10-2007, 02:53 PM
if the money is there, players will tow the line, just like they did with the IPT

watchez
12-10-2007, 03:04 PM
Did Michael Vick, Pacman Jones, Chris Henry, Mike Tyson, Pete Rose, that ref in the NBA, Rae Carruth, Cecil Collins, Tank Johnson, Jamal Lewis, Dexter Manley, Bam Morris, Mercury Morris, Nate Newton, Art Schlichter, Dwight Gooden, Darryl Strawberry, Ugueth Urbina, Isaiah Rider, Mike Danton, Craig Mactavish, Trevor Berbick, Hurrican Carter and Tonya Harding all TOW THE LINE???? And the line they were towing was a lot more profitable than pool.

SpiderWebComm
12-10-2007, 03:10 PM
I can't think of a single drug in existance that could be classified as performance enhancing when it comes to cue sports.

Prove me wrong I dare you.

Any beta blocker prevents you from anxiety or getting nervous. Playing for that kind of money - that's an advantage because it prevents you from losing performance based on heart rate and nerves. If I was playing, I'd plop an propranolol (sp?) and walk to my first match with nerves of steel.

Did I win?

watchez
12-10-2007, 03:17 PM
You beat me to it. I take metoprolol and do know that since beta blockers lower heart rate and reduce tremor, they have been used by some Olympic marksmen to enhance performance, though beta blockers are banned by the International Olympic Committee.

GG11
12-10-2007, 03:22 PM
Tommy Kennedy
David Sapolis
Steve Lillis
Mike Massey
George and Jeanette (Lee) Breedlove
Robin Dodson
Belinda Calhoun
... I bet if I paid Scotty Townsend a few bucks he wouldn't drink at an event, but he'd probably get plastered afterwards... With him, the cussing is another story, though. lol
:p

The drug testing is a requirement for the IOC (International Olympic Committee) as it is part of the their anti-doping policy.

Don't forget Tony Robles!! :)

Bob Jewett
12-10-2007, 03:48 PM
You beat me to it. I take metoprolol and do know that since beta blockers lower heart rate and reduce tremor, they have been used by some Olympic marksmen to enhance performance, though beta blockers are banned by the International Olympic Committee.
There was a semi-scandal several years ago related to snooker players taking beta blockers. I'm not sure what the resolution of it was or what the regulations say. I assume that if it's forbidden for shooters, it would be forbidden for shooters.

Jack Flanagan
12-10-2007, 04:43 PM
There was a semi-scandal several years ago related to snooker players taking beta blockers. I'm not sure what the resolution of it was or what the regulations say. I assume that if it's forbidden for shooters, it would be forbidden for shooters.

guess that would leave me out, too. I've taken Accupril and/or Avapro since 1992. unless the pharmacies are lying to me, they both contain beta blockers. :mad:

smashmouth
12-10-2007, 05:20 PM
Did Michael Vick, Pacman Jones, Chris Henry, Mike Tyson, Pete Rose, that ref in the NBA, Rae Carruth, Cecil Collins, Tank Johnson, Jamal Lewis, Dexter Manley, Bam Morris, Mercury Morris, Nate Newton, Art Schlichter, Dwight Gooden, Darryl Strawberry, Ugueth Urbina, Isaiah Rider, Mike Danton, Craig Mactavish, Trevor Berbick, Hurrican Carter and Tonya Harding all TOW THE LINE???? And the line they were towing was a lot more profitable than pool.

you missed the point

Fragged
12-10-2007, 05:42 PM
you missed the point

I missed it too then. Did you not state imply that the players would "tow the line" if the money was good like it was and they did for the IPT? The poster pointed out that money has not made players tow the line in any other sport. Addiction transcends money-it alway has. I've seen no evidence that the line was towed in the IPT. What do you have that supports your statement? There was no drug testing and I know of more than one instance of players gambling while the tournament was going on. I dont think there is a shred of evidence that any line was towed though the IPT did succeed in having players adhere to a dress code -barely. Many looked pretty sad in ill fitting 20 year old suits but they wore them because a dres code violation cant be hidden. Many looked peachy too I will admit.

worriedbeef
12-10-2007, 05:51 PM
There was a semi-scandal several years ago related to snooker players taking beta blockers. I'm not sure what the resolution of it was or what the regulations say. I assume that if it's forbidden for shooters, it would be forbidden for shooters.

the late Bill Werbeniuk was the most high profile case i think. well the only case i know of.

good article here about him. a real character!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2003%2F01%2F23%2Fdb2301.x ml

oh and btw see the following video for his greatest shot. an exhibition favourite which would have mike massey pulling his hair out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlKn9fDI_eo

SloRoller
12-10-2007, 06:14 PM
I saw this for membership requirements:

"Members will be required to make three public appearances at a non tournament NACPBA sponsored event."

What does this mean?
The NACPBA is sponsoring events that are not pool tournaments?

I agree with a previous post they should start out small, get established then shoot for the large purses.

WRT the website not written properly, its probably because the people are business oriented and not technical (of course a spell checker doesnt cost anything)

Hopefully they can pull something off.
Post IPT a lot of people will wait and see.

SR

Jaden
12-10-2007, 06:33 PM
I saw this for membership requirements:


WRT the website not written properly, its probably because the people are business oriented and not technical (of course a spell checker doesnt cost anything)



SR

Most of the words that are mispelled, (I only personally saw two, although I didn't go through the whole site), were mot mispelled per se but instead were used incorrectly, i.e. using their instead of there or vice verse. Spell checkers will not pick this up and even I do this on occasion although I berate myself for it when I do and upon rechecking which probably should've been done, I would find these errors ninety nie percent of the time.

smashmouth
12-10-2007, 06:43 PM
the evidence was the behaviour of the players at the IPT events and their adherence to the rules

showing up on time, taking direction, etc...they were not the the same guys
we were used to seeing

there will always be those who slip through the cracks but 22 million is more incentive than even the IPT offered

in any case, cart is definetly in front of the horse discussing this issue

I would be more than thrilled if every thing I ever said in life was proven wrong in exchange for a 22 million dollar pool tour

Bob Jewett
12-10-2007, 08:49 PM
... Of course, this caught my eye:

1st place:$200,000
2nd place: $100,000
3rd place: $75,000
4th place: $50,000
5th-9th place; $25,000 each
10th-16th place: $15,000 each
17th-32nd place:$7,500 each
33rd-64th place: $5,850 each
...
It caught my eye but for a different reason. The numbers obviously don't add up. First, the $25k group should be 5th-8th, not 5th-9th. Either way, the total is not $1M. I think it is $952.2k. Perhaps a minor nit.

The minimum commitment to play the first year is about $15,000. That is what the player has to budget for membership, entry fees, travel and lodging for eight events and 80 hours of his time for charity at $25/hour. To play in all 20 events is going to cost a player a total of about $40,000.

On the other hand, if you do play in every event and manage to win just one match in half of those events, your payout will be about $60,000.

I notice that the proposed schedule leaves no time for the Mosconi Cup or the Derby City Classic, for example. I wonder whether they intend to forbid play in tournaments that have date conflicts. If so, then I assume that we can expect those tournaments to go away.

Also a minor nit, but it seems that like the IPT, this new group intends to make up their own rules of the games as they go along, and ignore the World Standardized Rules.

In all, I think that they should have said nothing until they had far more details worked out. To come out as they have makes them look like they are ignorant and disorganized. If there really is $66 million behind this, then either the angels have so much money that they don't care how it is wasted, or they have found the wrong management team.

Fragged
12-10-2007, 09:32 PM
In all, I think that they should have said nothing until they had far more details worked out. To come out as they have makes them look like they are ignorant and disorganized. If there really is $66 million behind this, then either the angels have so much money that they don't care how it is wasted, or they have found the wrong management team.


That's no management team.

I really don't think that anyone who has 66 milion doesn't care how it is wasted. You just dont accumulate that much without caring. You can SAY you dont care just like KT did but when he saw the numbers and they were not flowing to the botom line he started caring a lot!! Same thing will happen here.

I see that their plan involves a huge emphasis on managing the live gate, moving floors and bringing the VIP seats in closer as the tournament winds down and other efficiencies with the fans which they sem to be all excited about. This tells me they are clueless.

Those sort of ideas are worthless. There are not enough fans for live pool to in any fashion recoup even a fraction of the purse not to mention the other costs which will exceed the prize fund.


.. Im beginning to think this whole thing might be a practical joke. That makes more sense than anything else im seeing by far.

Bob Jewett
12-10-2007, 10:13 PM
... There are not enough fans for live pool to in any fashion recoup even a fraction of the purse not to mention the other costs which will exceed the prize fund. ...
I attended all three of the IPT tournaments. They were splendid events to witness. I did what I could to promote attendance at the Reno tournament. I think the peak was for the finals and I counted no more than 500 in the audience.

smashmouth
12-10-2007, 10:19 PM
there is "THE" one way to earn back that type of investment, the multi billion dollar method that drives the NFL, what Kevin Trudeau wanted, and the exact reason you wouldn't want any players wagering or taking drugs

having said that, if KT couldn't implement it, I don't see how these guys could

practical joke sounds about right at this point

Fragged
12-10-2007, 10:31 PM
I attended all three of the IPT tournaments. They were splendid events to witness. I did what I c ould to promote attendance at the Reno tournament. I think the peak was for the finals and I counted no more than 500 in the audience.


And you do recall that many of those 'fans' were recruited from movie extras and modeling agencies and were paid to sit there to make it look like the IPT had a young Hip crowd.

smashmouth
12-10-2007, 10:31 PM
That's no management team.

I really don't think that anyone who has 66 milion doesn't care how it is wasted. You just dont accumulate that much without caring. You can SAY you dont care just like KT did but when he saw the numbers and they were not flowing to the botom line he started caring a lot!! Same thing will happen here.



exactly, people without any business training (or common sense) often think that all their fledgling sport needs is a multi million dollar cash influx to get things going. Saudi Shiekhs not withstanding (it's not just pool they throw money at) nobody sinks millions into anything without some form of plan for profit, there must be demand, Bill Gates or Warren buffet could do no more for Billiards right now than KT, although one could argue they could possible help create such a demand over years, they simply could not start a profitable tour right now.

I firmly believe KT got shafted with the Bush online gambling bill, NOBODY saw that coming, I still believe he wanted to follow the very succesfull BWIN model who many here still don't realize takes bets on the Euro Tour and streams the matches live for free

smashmouth
12-10-2007, 10:35 PM
as a UFC fan since it's inception, I've had to watch the highly uneducated (regarding mma) and extremely agenda driven (financial boxing interests) Senator McCain almost kill the sport single handedly and now Bush kills off the IPT

politicians:(

in any case, I suspect this nacpba guy is having a nice laugh about all this right now

Bob Jewett
12-10-2007, 11:49 PM
And you do recall that many of those 'fans' were recruited from movie extras and modeling agencies and were paid to sit there to make it look like the IPT had a young Hip crowd.
None, as far as I could tell. The audience extras only appeared at Orlando.

Fragged
12-11-2007, 08:27 AM
None, as far as I could tell. The audience extras only appeared at Orlando.


I KNOW that they were there during the week and I imagine they were there for the finals.

Were you there early in the week? All the close-up audience shots contained one or more ringers. I sat next to one twice.

d_flash
12-12-2007, 10:58 PM
funny how things get off track and just die off............................................... .........................................

oh well; BUMP to the top !

alstl
12-21-2007, 02:55 PM
Did Michael Vick, Pacman Jones, Chris Henry, Mike Tyson, Pete Rose, that ref in the NBA, Rae Carruth, Cecil Collins, Tank Johnson, Jamal Lewis, Dexter Manley, Bam Morris, Mercury Morris, Nate Newton, Art Schlichter, Dwight Gooden, Darryl Strawberry, Ugueth Urbina, Isaiah Rider, Mike Danton, Craig Mactavish, Trevor Berbick, Hurrican Carter and Tonya Harding all TOW THE LINE???? And the line they were towing was a lot more profitable than pool.

Sonny Liston deserves an honorable mention on a list like that. One of the more colorful characters to come out of St Louis.

ScottW
12-21-2007, 02:57 PM
Sonny Liston deserves an honorable mention on a list like that. One of the more colorful characters to come out of St Louis.

Dishonorable, don'tcha mean? :)

And it's "toe" the line, for the OP of that... :P

Island Drive
12-21-2007, 03:26 PM
if the money is there, players will tow the line, just like they did with the IPT

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Island Drive
12-21-2007, 03:33 PM
LOL...you have a point there.

I know if I was the dude running this thing, everytime someone in the money got knocked out I would have a check printed and in his hand instantly. No need to wait on Fed Ex or the home office. :p

The backlash from the IPT will make sure everyone and their brother is on the lookout for suspect money handling. Not a bad thing I guess.

When I first heard about this new event, my very first thought was who's behind the scenes KT?????

ironman
12-21-2007, 03:51 PM
good people? bad people??

If you go back 20 years there may not be two on that list that would pass ANY of those standards. In fact I would argue a couple might flunk some right now and I wouldnt consider them 'bad'. If you get a job assisting ST Peter, I hope it's well after I am dead!!

I once flunked a urine test and had 10 days to study for it!!

Island Drive
12-22-2007, 10:04 AM
I once flunked a urine test and had 10 days to study for it!!

Just goes to show ya, your pissing your life away, Merry Christmas, with that bad joke I can now hear your 'most' wonderful laugh, I truly mean that, miss ya Ya old fart.

CrownCityCorey
02-20-2008, 03:34 PM
Aparently 6 days till the big announcement NACPBA (http://www.nacpba.com/announce.asp).

Anything going on in the rumor mill about this?

mnorwood
02-20-2008, 06:18 PM
The first thing they need to do is shorten the name of the tour. nacpdbguah is too long. They also need to disclose their finances or give players an advance to demonstrate there ability to pay.

Is there any advertising deals? Is there any tv contract? All of it sounds fishy to me.:confused:

Blackjack
02-21-2008, 07:13 AM
The first thing they need to do is shorten the name of the tour. nacpdbguah is too long. They also need to disclose their finances or give players an advance to demonstrate there ability to pay.

Is there any advertising deals? Is there any tv contract? All of it sounds fishy to me.:confused:

Marcus,

Why does it sound "fishy" ??? Tim has his cell phone number posted on the website. You can call him personally and he will answer your questions to best of his ability, but I doubt he will give you any information that he wishes to remain private - he has that right - for now we have to resepct that and wait for the announcements.

Rumors? I haven't heard any really. I do know that there is a "Splash" event (date & location to be determined) - this is on their website, only a few days before the big announcement.

From what I have discovered in my research, this is NOT a poorly financed operation. This is going to be very well financed and very well organized, and very original in the way that it is marketed to the public, and the existing fan base for our game.

Prior to speaking out publicly about the IPT back in 2005, I did a lot of research on the tour and who was behind it. I have done the same thing with this tour, and I like what I see. The NACPBA understand what the game of pool is lacking, and they are willing to take steps to fill those voids in an attempt to bring dignity to the game, the players, and our industry. I think this is going to be an exciting time for our game.

Irish634
02-21-2008, 07:18 AM
Prior to speaking out publicly about the IPT back in 2005, I did a lot of research on the tour and who was behind it. I have done the same thing with this tour, and I like what I see. The NACPBA understand what the game of pool is lacking, and they are willing to take steps to fill those voids in an attempt to bring dignity to the game, the players, and our industry. I think this is going to be an exciting time for our game.

Well, that paragraph says a whole lot to me about this, especially given who the author is. It also tells me we have something to look forward to.

Craig

Craig Fales
02-21-2008, 07:34 AM
Dishonorable, don'tcha mean? :)

And it's "toe" the line, for the OP of that... :P
Actually it's "toll the line" like the ELO song....

Funny how you're not hearing much about this...anymore direct info on this?? Does anyone know this guy personally...

Roy Steffensen
02-21-2008, 07:38 AM
Marcus,

Why does it sound "fishy" ??? Tim has his cell phone number posted on the website. You can call him personally and he will answer your questions to best of his ability, but I doubt he will give you any information that he wishes to remain private - he has that right - for now we have to resepct that and wait for the announcements.

Rumors? I haven't heard any really. I do know that there is a "Splash" event (date & location to be determined) - this is on their website, only a few days before the big announcement.

From what I have discovered in my research, this is NOT a poorly financed operation. This is going to be very well financed and very well organized, and very original in the way that it is marketed to the public, and the existing fan base for our game.

Prior to speaking out publicly about the IPT back in 2005, I did a lot of research on the tour and who was behind it. I have done the same thing with this tour, and I like what I see. The NACPBA understand what the game of pool is lacking, and they are willing to take steps to fill those voids in an attempt to bring dignity to the game, the players, and our industry. I think this is going to be an exciting time for our game.

Very interesting

ScottW
02-21-2008, 07:40 AM
Actually it's "toll the line" like the ELO song....

Google both phrases. :D

Craig Fales
02-21-2008, 07:45 AM
Google both phrases. :D
Oh alright then...stupid ELO...lolz

Ed Simmons
02-21-2008, 07:47 AM
I think this is going to be an exciting time for our game.

You keep talking like that and you're going to have to drop the subtitle "Prophet of Doom"!

Nice positive post, Blackjack. For the sake of pool, I'm hoping you're right.

ironman
02-21-2008, 07:48 AM
[QUOTE=Fragged]good people? bad people??

If you go back 20 years there may not be two on that list that would pass ANY of those standards. In fact I would argue a couple might flunk some right now and I wouldnt consider them 'bad'. If you

It will be okay. I only work the day shift.

jay helfert
02-21-2008, 07:57 AM
I like Blackjack's positive response, but I've also heard some news that is not so positive. Like the IPT (who I dearly wanted to succeed initially), I will take a "wait and see" approach to this new organization. The jury is still out on them.

ScottW
02-21-2008, 07:58 AM
It's quite silly to judge these guys before they've done ANYTHING yet... :D

Give them a chance to screw up first!

smashmouth
02-21-2008, 08:01 AM
this is comical

watchez
02-21-2008, 08:02 AM
Marcus,

Why does it sound "fishy" ??? Tim has his cell phone number posted on the website. You can call him personally and he will answer your questions to best of his ability, but I doubt he will give you any information that he wishes to remain private - he has that right - for now we have to resepct that and wait for the announcements.

Rumors? I haven't heard any really. I do know that there is a "Splash" event (date & location to be determined) - this is on their website, only a few days before the big announcement.

From what I have discovered in my research, this is NOT a poorly financed operation. This is going to be very well financed and very well organized, and very original in the way that it is marketed to the public, and the existing fan base for our game.

Prior to speaking out publicly about the IPT back in 2005, I did a lot of research on the tour and who was behind it. I have done the same thing with this tour, and I like what I see. The NACPBA understand what the game of pool is lacking, and they are willing to take steps to fill those voids in an attempt to bring dignity to the game, the players, and our industry. I think this is going to be an exciting time for our game.

Received a call from Tim Dennis concerning the table order for the new tour. Was told that there was going to be some restructuring and the order is on hold. I asked for an email that I could post explaining the new direction for the tour in his words rather than mine. I will post the email as soon as I get it.
No need for me to say more at this time. I need to gather my thoughts and efforts towards something I have some sort of control. The Derby City Classic! The truth be known, I'm not sure how much control I actually have, the DCC seems to be getting a life of it's own. ha! Greg/Diamond



update: received this email today Dec. 31, 2007
Greg,

After all the research and valuable input we recieved from multiple
people in Las Vegas. We feel that we need to take a little more time to
evaluate, and restructure the tour. As we have stated many times we want
the input and frankly, greatly appreciate all the input. With everything
involved with the magnitude of the project we have undertaken we feel
that we need to take this extra time to make sure we do everything
correctly. After we decided to do this we felt that placing that order
for the tables right now would be pre-mature.

Hope your holidays were great, and I hope the Derby City Classic is
another awesome event for you.

Tim Dennis

I received another email from someone wondering if I should be posting the NCAPBA's business on the net so I think I should tell everyone that I got their approval before I ever posted on AZ.....Greg
This was posted by Greg on 12-31-07 with no current update on any table order that was supposed to be paid for months ago. When they have this Splash event, are there going to be pool tables involved?

Blackjack
02-21-2008, 08:10 AM
This was posted by Greg on 12-31-07 with no current update on any table order that was supposed to be paid for months ago. When they have this Splash event, are there going to be pool tables involved?

From that post, I take that as the order being on hold, not cancelled. It does not state that it was put on hold due to a lack of funds, it just states that the order was bit premature, and they are holding off on it until they are ready.

It's my guess that they will have tables at their events, and that they will also have checks. Myself, I am pleasantly surprised to see that they are making sure that they have everything in place before starting this tour.

watchez
02-21-2008, 08:16 AM
So if I sent Tim the $2500 membership fee he has listed on his site, he would just send it back because they are still getting organized and making sure they have everything in place?

Blackjack
02-21-2008, 08:23 AM
So if I sent Tim the $2500 membership fee he has listed on his site, he would just send it back because they are still getting organized and making sure they have everything in place?

I don't know what they would do with the money. What I do know, is that there have not been any fees or dues collected by the NACPBA, nor has the player list been released as of this date.

They are still in the organizing stage. If this tour turns out to be another IPT, I will be man enough to own the fact that I was wrong (I've said that before on this forum... anyone remember when?) For those keeping score, I do have a perfect record (so far) at calling these ones as I see 'em.

ShootingArts
02-21-2008, 05:50 PM
It's quite silly to judge these guys before they've done ANYTHING yet... :D

Give them a chance to screw up first!

They announced they were gods and pool players were dirt and would behave themselves or hit the road. At the same time the backers and funding for this association are veiled in secrecy. Then they told Diamond that they wanted some tables but missed multiple deadlines they set themselves to produce a down payment on those tables.

That is plenty enough to make an initial judgment on. A little openness and them being a little forthcoming might persuade me that the initial judgment was a bit harsh but they are the ones that stubbed their toes multiple times coming out of the gates. The ball is in their court and I feel absolutely no need to assume they are knights in shining armor when everything to date indicates more of the same ol' same ol' that one would be tour after another has put men's pool through.

The little ol' lady in an old Wendy's commercial said it best for me:

Where's the beef?

Hu

PoolSharklv
02-22-2008, 12:46 AM
I went to log in to the NACPBA site as I hadn't been there in quite awhile. As soon as the page loaded my anti-virus-phishing-trojan- software went nuts. It blocked the attempts to exploit my system but I won't be going back there.