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Bugz
12-19-2007, 06:38 AM
This is what i was left with after my opp. broke. Next post has what I did.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AYAD1BaGl2CNCE1DLXs2EbQO2Faax1GbHL1HYYU3IGbk1JW lJ4KDfg4LXjX1MaoT1NMJC1OAnk3PFQJ@

Bugz
12-19-2007, 06:42 AM
http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AYAD1BaGl2CNCE1DLXs2EbQO2Faax1GbHL1HYYU3IGbk1JW lJ4KDfg4LXjX1MaoT1NMJC1OAnk3PFQJ4QWoP4RLWK3dGbk3dc Ql4fDfg3fcAm4gXjX4geWC3kFQJ4kVvj4kbfm4kXVK4kWoO4lW oP4lGAY4lLfJ4mLWK3mEGk2mKSi@


http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AYAD1BYxk2CNCE1DLXs2EbQO2Faax1GbHL1HYYU3IcIq1JW lJ3KcYr4LefC1MaoT1NMJC1OAnl2PKrk1QUMN1RMyQ1VYxk1Vb du1Vblw1cYYU1cblU1eWlJ4eaGs1iMJC3icYq1jAnl1jcxo1jd Ws2kKrk2kBUl1kbKF1kUUN1lUMN1lMyQ1mMyQ1mVfU1mVfU1mV vT2qQtFDead_straight_on_14&ZZ@

Blackjack
12-19-2007, 06:46 AM
Ballsy shot on the 14 to bust out the 10 and the 8! Nice one!

Bugz
12-19-2007, 06:48 AM
Ballsy shot on the 14 to bust out the 10 and the 8! Nice one!

Thanks, but it was a mess up, opp played safe behind 5 and 6. With the 8 busted out and the ball in hand. I never saw the table again.

Blackjack
12-19-2007, 07:16 AM
Thanks, but it was a mess up, opp played safe behind 5 and 6. With the 8 busted out and the ball in hand. I never saw the table again.


You problem was the 13 ball. Everything else is open for you.

Your opponent's problem was the 5-6 cluster, and the 2 ball. He has the 1 ball available to break out the 5-6, but the 2 ball is a different story. It's locked in there against the 8 ball. This is where it gets complicated, because at some point you need the 13 in one of the pockets and the 8 ball free.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AYAD1BaGl2CNCE1DLXs2EbQO2Faax1GbHL1HYYU3IGbk1JW lJ4KDfg4LXjX1MaoT1NMJC1OAnk3PFQJ1qOUuYour_Problem_ child_is_the_13._Your_opponent's__problem_is_the_2 _ball&ZZ2rcLkYour_opponent_has_this_cluster_to_deal_with _also._This_gives_YOU_options.&ZZ@


You need the 13 out of there. You can get the 10 and the 8 separated from the 2 ball in a few different ways. This makes my attention go to the 13 - banking it cross corner, as illustrated below. The trick is, just don't blast the shot so hard that the 13 will go all over the pace if you miss...

http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AYAD1BaGl2CNCE1DLXs2EbQO2Faax1GbHL1HYYU3IGbk1JW lJ4KDfg4LXjX1MaoT1NMJC1OAnk3PFQJ1haoT2hcpr3kFQJ1kY JJ1qOUu&ZZ2rLjo&ZZ@

Even if the 13 doesn't go, you can block out that pocket if you shoot the shot with the correct speed... a little advanced, I know... but this is what I would have done, leaving your opponent with something like this.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AYAD1BaGl2CNCE1DLXs2EbQO2Faax1GbHL1HYYU3IGbk1JW lJ4KDfg4LXjX2MXYY1NMJC1OAnk1PWml1qOUu&ZZ2rLjo&ZZ@

From there, you have taken that pocket away from him. As a bonus, if you can block him from seeing the 1 ball, more power to you! Even if he breaks up the 5-6, those balls will not have that pocket available. He also has to find another home for the 3 ball, and he really doesn't have any safety options. He may be able to pocket the 7 ball, then perhaps the 1, but he won't go much further than that.

When playing 8 ball - remember you shouldn't try to run out unless the run out is there for you. Starting with the 12 ball was not the way to go (IMO) - because you should have dealt with your problem ball immediately to get that 13 out of there. After all, the odds were tilted in YOUR favor until you broke out the 2 for him. You should have let him break that up for you - perhaps he would have knocked the 8 into the side pocket while trying that - make the opportunity to fail available for him - not YOU.

Aaron_S
12-19-2007, 08:03 AM
Even if the 13 doesn't go, you can block out that pocket if you shoot the shot with the correct speed...

I like the cross-corner bank for dealing with the 13, but I think you're going to have to shoot at something else first to avoid handing over an open table (assuming you really want stripes, that is). Don't feel bad, Blackjack, it's entirely too early in the morning to be planning runouts. :)

Aaron

Jason Robichaud
12-19-2007, 08:28 AM
Maybe the other guy said he really wanted low balls and wouldn't take striped

IA8baller
12-19-2007, 08:30 AM
http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AYAD1BaGl2CNCE1DLXs2EbQO2Faax1GbHL1HYYU3IGbk1JW lJ4KDfg4LXjX1MaoT1NMJC1OAnk3PFQJ@[/QUOTE]

I would have considered cutting the 12 into the 10 so it caroms into the side pocket and hit it hard enough the 10-8-2 reaction should force the 2 into the 13 at such an angle it takes the 13 out of trouble plus the 12 should just nick the 8 as the 8 is forced out helping the 12 into the side pocket and help keep the 8 from going into the side pocket as well. It looks to me like it is set up to react that way and you would be totally in the clear for a run out then. That was my first initial thought, right or wrong.

trustyrusty
12-19-2007, 08:37 AM
1 in the side to break-up the 6 / 5. From there I see quite a few ways to bump his 13 into my 2.......

Andrew Manning
12-19-2007, 08:49 AM
I would have considered cutting the 12 into the 10 so it caroms into the side pocket and hit it hard enough the 10-8-2 reaction should force the 2 into the 13 at such an angle it takes the 13 out of trouble plus the 12 should just nick the 8 as the 8 is forced out helping the 12 into the side pocket and help keep the 8 from going into the side pocket as well. It looks to me like it is set up to react that way and you would be totally in the clear for a run out then. That was my first initial thought, right or wrong.

Mine too. I'd like to get a better angle on the 12 so I could make sure I played the combination to break out the 13 accurately, but in this case I think I'd probably try it as a first shot. Afterwards, if the break out has gone as planned, a good player should be able to run out those stripes. If the 13 didn't quite make it into the open, then I'm probably looking to block pockets or tie the 13 up with the 2 or 7 again, to ensure my opponent doesn't use the 1 to break up the 5/6 and then get out on me. A safety battle would ensure, and I'd guess I'm 50/50 to win against an opponent of similar skill as me. So starting with the shot you suggest, I think I'm at least 75% to win if the 13 does get free, and 50% if it doesn't, and that's about as good as you can hope for in the case of a table with this many problems.

-Andrew

Aaron_S
12-19-2007, 08:51 AM
Maybe the other guy said he really wanted low balls and wouldn't take striped

I hadn't thought of that. Is that something you would generally want to get in writing with a notary present, or will a simple verbal contract hold up in the 8-ball court? :D

Aaron

Jude Rosenstock
12-19-2007, 09:01 AM
You have to view this table one way and one way only. How can you make this table runnable? Now, as it's been pointed out, your opponent has a few problems to deal with. He has a 5/6 cluster AND he has a 2-ball problem. YOU have one problem - the 13-ball (unless the 10-ball doesn't go in the side off the 12-ball, then you have two problems).

Now, that 5/6 cluster is not a huge issue. You can't take it seriously since your opponent can open that up with a few balls (1 & 3) but that 2-ball, that glorious 2-ball is going to buy you another inning. DON'T TOUCH IT. Get your 13-ball out in the clear and let him shoot. With that 8-ball so close to the side pocket, he's not going to blast randomly at that cluster.

Aaron_S
12-19-2007, 09:28 AM
Yeah, the 13 is definitely the issue here, but I think I would try to do a little work before I moved it. While the 15 is not exactly a "trouble" ball, it is not incredibly easy to get on, and it's not blocking any pockets for my opp, so I might use the 9 (or the 9, then the 11) to try to get a shot on it and get it out of the way early. I would avoid shooting the 12 ball, as it looks like playing the 10 in the side off of it may be a good shot to save for later. Regardless of whether I was able to get on the 15 or not, my very next move would be to try to get that 13 out of there with the main emphasis, as Jude said, on not moving the 2, 8, or 10. The 8 is dead off of the 10 in the side, so any attempt by my opp to break out that cluster will be fraught with peril, especially since he doesn't have any solids at the rack-end of the table that would allow an easy approach from the 10-ball side of that cluster. This rack is very winnable, but trying to go all the way out in one inning is not a good choice unless you can make that 13 cross-corner, as Blackjack suggested.

Good rolls,

Aaron

Blackjack
12-19-2007, 09:28 AM
I like the cross-corner bank for dealing with the 13, but I think you're going to have to shoot at something else first to avoid handing over an open table (assuming you really want stripes, that is). Don't feel bad, Blackjack, it's entirely too early in the morning to be planning runouts. :)

Aaron


I figured that who has stripes and who has solids had already been determined. If it wasn't, then go lower left 3 rails and into the corner.

:cool:

Snapshot9
12-19-2007, 12:10 PM
Yeah, you could pretty well have the nuts with the stripes because of the 2, and the solids are pretty runnable except for the 2 next to the 8 against the 10 which would knock the 8 in the side for any breakout on the 2 (using the 4 ball to break the 2).

But if I was going to go for the run though, I would shoot the 9 and 11, line up on the 12 downtable and fire the 12 in the side pretty hard with a ricochet kiss off the 10 and 8, causing the 2 uptable hitting the 13 and the 13 itself might clear the 7 off the long rail and open up the 13. (Depends on how important the game is).

Jude Rosenstock
12-19-2007, 12:19 PM
Yeah, you could pretty well have the nuts with the stripes because of the 2, and the solids are pretty runnable except for the 2 next to the 8 against the 10 which would knock the 8 in the side for any breakout on the 2 (using the 4 ball to break the 2).

But if I was going to go for the run though, I would shoot the 9 and 11, line up on the 12 downtable and fire the 12 in the side pretty hard with a ricochet kiss off the 10 and 8, causing the 2 uptable hitting the 13 and the 13 itself might clear the 7 off the long rail and open up the 13. (Depends on how important the game is).


Although your assessment is dead on with mine, I strongly advise not pocketing a single ball until the 13 is moved. I understand that a knowledgeable 8-ball player who has the misfortune of being solids is going to either respond with trying to tie something up or be VERY VERY aggressive since it's apparent how poor shape he's in but I think you have to allow that inning to occur.

David Beck
12-19-2007, 02:46 PM
What I would do:

http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AYAD1BaGl2CNCE1DLXs2EbQO2Faax1GbHL1HYYU3IGbk1JW lJ4KDfg4LXjX1MaoT1NMJC1OAnk3PFQJ1QWme2UYAD2UdpA1ha oT2hYvc2haMe1iMJC2iVWG3kFQJ1kYRI1kbNW1kXDf1kWmf1lW me1lOmH4lCUF@[@

To get out:

http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AYAD1BaGl2CNCE1DLXs2EbQO2Faax1GbHL1HYYU3IGbk1JW lJ4KDfg4LXjX1MaoT1NMJC1OAnk3PFQJ1VaGl1VaoF1cYYU1cb Md3dGbk4dcxn4ddOn1eWlJ1eUhb4fDfg4fcpq4gXjX4gYQD1gd xI3kFQJ4kBjV3kWJg3kIvj4kbGW4kXbo@[@

Bugz
12-19-2007, 03:34 PM
Thanks for everyones input, alot of good choices