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View Full Version : Kinister's Advanced Fundamentals One Handed Shot


DrCue'sProtege
12-23-2007, 03:03 PM
anyone have or ever seen this video from Mr. Kinister? he wants you to get aligned and then shoot a straight in shot one handed into the corner pocket. believe he said once you make it 10 times in a row that is excellent. then he recommends shooting the same shot with an open bridge and drawing back 10 times in a row, then with a closed bridge.

anyway, i got a copy of the video, thought it might be one of his better ones. managed to make the one handed shot 10 times in a row after struggling for about 30 minutes or so.

just wondering what the rest of you posters thought of this video?

DCP

the420trooper
12-23-2007, 03:11 PM
anyone have or ever seen this video from Mr. Kinister? he wants you to get aligned and then shoot a straight in shot one handed into the corner pocket. believe he said once you make it 10 times in a row that is excellent. then he recommends shooting the same shot with an open bridge and drawing back 10 times in a row, then with a closed bridge.

anyway, i got a copy of the video, thought it might be one of his better ones. managed to make the one handed shot 10 times in a row after struggling for about 30 minutes or so.

just wondering what the rest of you posters thought of this video?

DCP

That particular tape probably helped me more than any other. It teaches you that the shot is already missed or made before you take a practice stroke. It helped my alignment so greatly, that when a long, straight-in shot comes up, I just smile. I then get over the shot one handed, add the bridge hand as an afterthought, and then fire. I don't remember the last time I missed. (That ONE shot, mind you.):D

TheBook
12-23-2007, 05:45 PM
One of his better tapes. It helped me get my natural alignment. That is the problem with all the so called cookie cutter advice. Everyone is built different.

Tim-n-NM
12-23-2007, 05:53 PM
anyone have or ever seen this video from Mr. Kinister? he wants you to get aligned and then shoot a straight in shot one handed into the corner pocket. believe he said once you make it 10 times in a row that is excellent. then he recommends shooting the same shot with an open bridge and drawing back 10 times in a row, then with a closed bridge.

anyway, i got a copy of the video, thought it might be one of his better ones. managed to make the one handed shot 10 times in a row after struggling for about 30 minutes or so.

just wondering what the rest of you posters thought of this video?

DCP

I have never seen this video. Where is it available?

DrCue'sProtege
12-23-2007, 05:59 PM
I have never seen this video. Where is it available?

BertKinister.Com i believe is the address. if thats not right just search on Bert Kinister. i think it is tape #11.

DCP

Patrick Johnson
12-23-2007, 08:20 PM
I've never seen the Kinister video, but I've heard of the one-handed practice technique from a couple of others, have tried it and think it's a great idea. I think it forces you to cooperate with gravity, which produces your most natural and effective stance and stroke (it helps beginners learn how to stroke too).

Another practice technique that works on the same principle is what I call "no-stroking": shooting entire sets or entire drills using both hands, but without taking any practice strokes. Like the one-handed practice technique, the no-stroke technique teaches you to pay closer attention to putting your stance together correctly and aligning it with the shot as precisely as possible to deliver a perfect first stroke.

Both of these techniques are also good ways to improve aiming focus generally.

pj
chgo

Mark Avlon
12-23-2007, 08:54 PM
I haven't seen this video, but I suspect the cue is resting on the rail and is only held or guided by the grip hand. It's great for learning to cradle the cue in a relaxed grip hand. With solid mechanics and a relaxed grip hand, a significant amount of power can be used to pocket the ball.

MTfish
12-23-2007, 09:36 PM
This video helped me quite a bit. I got into a slump a month or so and went back to it and it seemed to bring me out of my slump. If nothing else, this video got me to pay more attention to my alignment and that has helped my consistency.

av84fun
12-23-2007, 10:46 PM
anyone have or ever seen this video from Mr. Kinister? he wants you to get aligned and then shoot a straight in shot one handed into the corner pocket. believe he said once you make it 10 times in a row that is excellent. then he recommends shooting the same shot with an open bridge and drawing back 10 times in a row, then with a closed bridge.

anyway, i got a copy of the video, thought it might be one of his better ones. managed to make the one handed shot 10 times in a row after struggling for about 30 minutes or so.

just wondering what the rest of you posters thought of this video?

DCP

Can you describe the shot? How far is the ob from the cb?

Thanks,
Jim

magnetardo
12-23-2007, 10:52 PM
I've never seen the Kinister video, but I've heard of the one-handed practice technique from a couple of others, have tried it and think it's a great idea. I think it forces you to cooperate with gravity, which produces your most natural and effective stance and stroke (it helps beginners learn how to stroke too).

Another practice technique that works on the same principle is what I call "no-stroking": shooting entire sets or entire drills using both hands, but without taking any practice strokes. Like the one-handed practice technique, the no-stroke technique teaches you to pay closer attention to putting your stance together correctly and aligning it with the shot as precisely as possible to deliver a perfect first stroke.

Both of these techniques are also good ways to improve aiming focus generally.

pj
chgo


Bert goes over the no-stroke technique as well, I believe it was on the Mighty-X tape. There is a lot of knowledge on his vids if you can weed thru all the fluff. :D

DrCue'sProtege
12-23-2007, 11:17 PM
Can you describe the shot? How far is the ob from the cb?

Thanks,
Jim

this is the basic shot. but bear in mind i think the Kinister video is on a 7-foot table. perhaps as someone speculated a while back maybe even a 6-footer?

and no, i dont think the cue is resting on the table. you have to hold it steady while you shoot. this was a big problem for me, i had a hard time keeping the cue from wobbling around.

DCP

http://CueTable.com/P/?@1EXuK4PTvx@

magnetardo
12-24-2007, 01:56 AM
this is the basic shot. but bear in mind i think the Kinister video is on a 7-foot table. perhaps as someone speculated a while back maybe even a 6-footer?

and no, i dont think the cue is resting on the table. you have to hold it steady while you shoot. this was a big problem for me, i had a hard time keeping the cue from wobbling around.

DCP

http://CueTable.com/P/?@1EXuK4PTvx@



When I took lessons from him (mid 90's), we did that shot cross corner and it was on a nine-foot table, some of his early videos were done on a 7' bar box but most of them were on big tables and he had absolutely no problems doing any of the shots on the 9 footer, he had a 9' Anniversary when I first started going there then a Murrey then a bad ass fully restored antique Brunswick. Looking at his website, I know vid #14 was on a barbox and I know vid #17 was on the Anniversary so at most the first 16 or so were filmed on a bar box and the other 50-60 of them were on 9' tables.

av84fun
12-24-2007, 08:20 PM
this is the basic shot. but bear in mind i think the Kinister video is on a 7-foot table. perhaps as someone speculated a while back maybe even a 6-footer?

and no, i dont think the cue is resting on the table. you have to hold it steady while you shoot. this was a big problem for me, i had a hard time keeping the cue from wobbling around.

DCP

http://CueTable.com/P/?@1EXuK4PTvx@

Hmmm...I can clearly see the benefits of practicing that shot with the cue resting on the table...in terms of proving the necessity of a great set up.

But shooting it jacked up would be a waste of time IMHO.

Regards,
Jim

cuebuilder
12-25-2007, 02:42 PM
I haven't seen this video, but I suspect the cue is resting on the rail and is only held or guided by the grip hand. It's great for learning to cradle the cue in a relaxed grip hand. With solid mechanics and a relaxed grip hand, a significant amount of power can be used to pocket the ball.
This shot is done completely non supported. Cue touches nothing. It wouldn't "groove" your stance if there is outside support (the table). The whole idea of the exercise is to give you perfect alignment
I took lessons from Bert on the killer old Brunswick. Claims to have been originally owned by Mark Twain.

Patrick Johnson
12-25-2007, 07:24 PM
DCP:
i dont think the cue is resting on the table

Then my comments don't apply and I don't like this exercise after all. Controlling the stick like this means bringing all your arm muscles into play, which is backwards. You want to learn to use fewer muscles, not more.

pj
chgo

Mark Avlon
12-25-2007, 07:35 PM
Then my comments don't apply and I don't like this exercise after all. Controlling the stick like this means bringing all your arm muscles into play, which is backwards. You want to learn to use fewer muscles, not more.

If the cue is only supported by the grip hand, I don't understand how it would help improve mechanics. How would this drill help with alignment? As Patrick stated, this teaches you to use your muscles the wrong way. Why would you want to do that?

8ballpaul
12-25-2007, 08:10 PM
If any one wants to bet on this shot jacked up in the air ten times in a row come to the marietta billiard club in marietta ga. and bring some cash including Bert Kinnister.

DrCue'sProtege
12-25-2007, 09:38 PM
If any one wants to bet on this shot jacked up in the air ten times in a row come to the marietta billiard club in marietta ga. and bring some cash including Bert Kinnister.

i know what you mean, Paul. i for one wont argue whether or not it can be done. like i said, after practicing the shot for about an hour i managed to make 10 in a row on my 9-foot GCIV.

as for whether or not the shot is worthwhile to practice, i will leave that up to everyone to decide on their own. i mean, who am i to say that what a top notch instructor says is a very useful practice shot is or is not true???

DCP

av84fun
12-25-2007, 09:56 PM
Then my comments don't apply and I don't like this exercise after all. Controlling the stick like this means bringing all your arm muscles into play, which is backwards. You want to learn to use fewer muscles, not more.

pj
chgo

I agree. Forward cue support has nothing to do with alignment...and certainly the front of the cue is supported by the bridge hand in actual play.

Regards,
Jim

av84fun
12-25-2007, 10:02 PM
If any one wants to bet on this shot jacked up in the air ten times in a row come to the marietta billiard club in marietta ga. and bring some cash including Bert Kinnister.

What is the table brand and the pocket sizes down there?

cuebuilder
12-26-2007, 12:00 AM
Then my comments don't apply and I don't like this exercise after all. Controlling the stick like this means bringing all your arm muscles into play, which is backwards. You want to learn to use fewer muscles, not more.

pj
chgo
I agree this exercise isn't for stroke, but for stance and alignment. Without proper alignment, the shot can't be repeated with any consistancy. Thats why it is to be made 10 times in a row. Once or twice in a row may be done with a little luck and work, but not 10.
Again, this is not a stroke builder and doesn't need to be done for weeks. This is for Stance and Alignment only. And it does work.

Mark Avlon
12-26-2007, 01:02 AM
How does this drill improve ones stance and alignment?

magnetardo
12-26-2007, 01:38 AM
If any one wants to bet on this shot jacked up in the air ten times in a row come to the marietta billiard club in marietta ga. and bring some cash including Bert Kinnister.


4 whole posts in a year and all of them talking smack, welcome to the ignore list. :rolleyes:

Patrick Johnson
12-26-2007, 08:12 AM
This is for Stance and Alignment only. And it does work.

Seems to me the stance needed for shooting without a bridge is completely different from the stance needed for normal shooting.

pj
chgo

cuebuilder
12-26-2007, 11:42 AM
Hold your cue loosely at the balance point relaxed and erect. You will notice that the cue is at an angle across your body, not straight. This angle is your "natural" alignment. This angle is different for everyone. Move your feet to line up the cue with the CB, OB, and pocket. MOVE YOUR FEET ONLY. This gives you your perfect alignment. When you bend over the table and put your bridge hand down after this alignment, you will find a straight line from your shoulder to elbow, to wrist. The cue stick will be on this line giving you a pendulem stroke.
Shooting the one handed jacked up shot helps you find this alignment. It also shows you where your feet should be. Hence, Alignment and stance. Watch the video if you can. It explains and shows it better than I can write it.

Patrick Johnson
12-26-2007, 11:51 AM
Hold your cue loosely at the balance point relaxed and erect. You will notice that the cue is at an angle across your body, not straight. This angle is your "natural" alignment. This angle is different for everyone. Move your feet to line up the cue with the CB, OB, and pocket. MOVE YOUR FEET ONLY. This gives you your perfect alignment. When you bend over the table and put your bridge hand down after this alignment, you will find a straight line from your shoulder to elbow, to wrist. The cue stick will be on this line giving you a pendulem stroke.

This way of finding your natural foot position could make sense - I tried it myself and it seems to work OK for my stance (although that's not proof it's universal).

Shooting the one handed jacked up shot helps you find this alignment.

I still don't see how actually shooting one-handed jacked up shots helps.

pj
chgo

DrCue'sProtege
12-26-2007, 01:07 PM
I still don't see how actually shooting one-handed jacked up shots helps.

pj
chgo

i dont think the term "jacked up" applies to this Kinister tape. there is no jacking up here. just keep the cue level with your right hand, and shoot the object ball in.

DCP

Bob Jewett
12-26-2007, 03:08 PM
i dont think the term "jacked up" applies to this Kinister tape. there is no jacking up here. just keep the cue level with your right hand, and shoot the object ball in.

DCP
The term "jacked up" has a very special meaning when playing one-handed. It means that the stick is not allowed to touch/rest on the table. It does not mean "with tremendous or excessive elevation."

Does the tape actually say to not let the stick rest on the rail? If so, I think there are better ways for a beginner to learn both stance and balance, such as the one-handed stick-on-the-rail practice Pat referred to.

Neil
12-26-2007, 05:45 PM
..............

Patrick Johnson
12-26-2007, 05:56 PM
I look at this as just another 'tool' in my 'toobox'. It might not work for everyone. But I try and store little 'nuggets' like this in my mental toolbox. Then, when things just don't seem to be going right, and I can't put my finger on why, I try to reach into my 'toolbox' for another tool to try. Usually there is something there that will bring me back into my game.

Only problem being, sometimes there are too many 'tools', and it's hard to remember what you are looking for.:)
...or where you put the tool box, or why you came into this room, or...

What was the question again?

pj
chgo