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liljon
12-23-2007, 05:20 PM
What players are considered to have heart and why? I was reading the definition of "heart" on another thread and Im curious for examples of heart that have been displayed in the last ten years that the forum members identify as truly showing "heart." I'll post a few examples that Ive witnessed myself that I think identifies heart... Ljon

Southpaw
12-23-2007, 05:42 PM
The player I have seen that I feel has the most heart is Jeff Abernathy. I have seen him take way the worst of a game and bare down and outrun it. Its not that he makes bad games, but he isnt afraid to challenge himself. JMO.

Southpaw

Johnnyt
12-23-2007, 05:50 PM
In pool I believe that any road player that stakes himself day in and day out has to have heart. I'm sure there are many pro players that don't use their own money (very large % of them don't) that have heart. But let's face it, if your playing with someone elses money...you really don't need much heart. Johnnyt

PoolBum
12-23-2007, 05:51 PM
One of the first guys I always think of as having heart is Nick Varner, for his tenacity and never say die attitude. If you've ever seen the Accu-Stats match of him and Mike Sigel at the 1990 U.S. Open you'll know what I mean.

sjm
12-23-2007, 06:08 PM
One of the first guys I always think of as having heart is Nick Varner, for his tenacity and never say die attitude. If you've ever seen the Accu-Stats match of him and Mike Sigel at the 1990 U.S. Open you'll know what I mean.

I agree, Nick Varner always had incredible heart.

pletho
12-23-2007, 06:19 PM
If you were to look up in the dictionary the word HEART you would see this pool players name near the top Scotty Townsend

liljon
12-23-2007, 06:22 PM
Scotty was one of my choices.....I have few more too...

Terry Ardeno
12-23-2007, 06:26 PM
Nick Varner.

Neil
12-23-2007, 06:29 PM
..............

Terry Ardeno
12-23-2007, 06:34 PM
Bustamente. He continues in the world championship (??I think it was the worlds) after finding out about the death of his daughter. I believe he went on to take 2nd. He had every excuse in the world to do bad, but didn't use any of them.


You're right Neil. In 2002, Busta finished 2nd to Strickland after learning of the devastating loss of his baby daughter.

sjm
12-23-2007, 06:39 PM
Guess I posted this in the wrong thread:

1) Mike Sigel runs 150 and out on you, but on the very first turn of your next match you run 148 against Ray Martin.................... you're Mike Zuglan at the 1992 US Open Straight Pool Championships and you've got heart.

2) You've just learned that your father has passed away, but you decide to play in the tournament anyway. You lose your first match to David Howard, but still play on. You win ten matches in a row to earn a shot at Johnny Archer in the final and beat him 13-2 to win the title..................... you're Efren Reyes at the 1996 PBT Florida Flare-up and you've got heart.

Fatboy
12-23-2007, 06:48 PM
I knew a guy in modesto Ca who was born with a terrible birth defect he was shaped like a soup can with arms and legs, he was in a wheel chair his whole life, but he learned to play pool and considering his handicapp he hit them good, that took alot of heart for him to get to his level of play. He got pnouma and passed away, that was terrible, he had it bad his whole life but still went out and did something.

joncueist
12-23-2007, 07:41 PM
Perfect example here. Surviving and succeeding in the face of extreme adversity. Nice post.

JohnPT
12-23-2007, 07:44 PM
my vote goes to "The Lion". After placing 2nd in the WPC against a then unknown Hohmann he comse back the following year to win the trophy along whith a side bet he had on himself. He also won one of the DCC ring games and "heart" is a definite requirement to win one of those.

derekdisco
12-23-2007, 07:55 PM
Sheeeeiiit, my definition and vote for heart is the threadstarter. Hands down.

cyrex
12-23-2007, 07:56 PM
I've got two that I was really impressed with. Rob Saez and second is Crown City Corey. Both of them just exude professionalism at the table.

Fatboy
12-23-2007, 08:00 PM
I've got two that I was really impressed with. Rob Saez and second is Crown City Corey. Both of them just exude professionalism at the table.

i'll second that about Cory, dont know Rob.

hemicudas
12-23-2007, 08:01 PM
What players are considered to have heart and why? I was reading the definition of "heart" on another thread and Im curious for examples of heart that have been displayed in the last ten years that the forum members identify as truly showing "heart." I'll post a few examples that Ive witnessed myself that I think identifies heart... Ljon

1. First has to be Louie Roberts. Too many examples to start a list.

2. Greg Stevens. Greg asked guys what they wanted then gave it to them.

3. Dan Louie. Played Buddy Hall even and liked it.

4. Keith McCready. Like Greg Stevens, Keith gave up the world and out ran it.

Now for today's players.

1. The first guy has to be you yourself, LJ. I dare anyone to argue with that selection. Lil Jon, has mixed it up with anyone at any time for years now. Jon, has flown to matches just to get robbed when he gets there and not on the pool table but under it.

2. Harold "Hitman" MacAbee. You guys check out the voting for the Louie Roberts award at the DCC for the last 3 years and you will find Harold's name right at the top each year.

3. Scotty Townsend. Scotty could easily be in the list with the older players also because his heart spans that many years.

4. John Drew Hagar Jr. Ask anyone who know, John Drew Hagar, just how much heart this young man has. John Drew, will jump into a ring game with SVB, Efren and alike. Both his parents were the same way.

I could go on but I thought I would let someone else take a shot.

liljon
12-23-2007, 08:02 PM
John Drew Haggar. Dont worry about it, when he was playing, he would get up and play them all some kind of way and bet them all too...
I asked Scotty one time when he was playing real good, I said "Scotty, who can beat you?" he said, ive never been beat just ran out of money a few times!!!!!!!!!I still got a few more in mind.....

Fatboy
12-23-2007, 08:07 PM
this aint about pool, but i'm gonna brag a little. The day my mom died after 2.5 years of cancer I was with her the whole time, i'm an only child, she died a long crule battle with a disease that knows no boundarys. I got the call at 9:30 Am, I erased her number from my phone and went back to sleep-I was up for about 2 days and got to sleep at about 5am, I knew we had lost the battle, 30 minutes later I got up at 10AM and went to work like nothing had happened, as she wanted me to do, I didnt tell anyone for about a month. I did what she wanted, not skip a beat because she passed, thats heart.


As for pool the guys with heart never talk about it, I only made the other thread to see what people would say I was curious. I will let my peers judge me.

Happy Christmas,

RIP mom<-----thats the hard part the next few days, her anniversary with my dad is Jan 6. I lost dad in 2000. Now I'm alone, I lived for my parents, now you know a little about me personally.

selftaut
12-23-2007, 08:14 PM
You're barely over 5 feet tall.

You walk into the roughest joints in the country, post your money on the light and play the best the place has to offer for the cheese.

You win world titles in both one pocket and 3 cushion billiards.

You win recognized major titles in 8 Ball, 9 Ball , straight pool , one pocket and 3C billiards.

You win consecutive US Opens in 3 cushion billiards from the lossers bracket.

You win more Jansco Brothers one pocket tournaments in Johnston City than "any" other player, including 4 consecutively 1965-1968.

You play in the finals for the "All Around" title in Johnston City twice, once against Luther Lassiter and once against Harold Worst, both under the lights of ABC Sports.

You have heart.

You're Larry "Boston Shorty" Johnson

av84fun
12-23-2007, 08:45 PM
I agree, Nick Varner always had incredible heart.

Agreed. I have a video of one of this matches against Sigel many years ago. Nick was down something like 10-2 in a race to 12 and won 12-11.

One of the great comebacks of all time.

As for roadies, Bobby Pickel is ALL heart.

Regards,
Jim

ironman
12-23-2007, 09:11 PM
1. First has to be Louie Roberts. Too many examples to start a list.

2. Greg Stevens. Greg asked guys what they wanted then gave it to them.

3. Dan Louie. Played Buddy Hall even and liked it.

4. Keith McCready. Like Greg Stevens, Keith gave up the world and out ran it.

Now for today's players.

1. The first guy has to be you yourself, LJ. I dare anyone to argue with that selection. Lil Jon, has mixed it up with anyone at any time for years now. Jon, has flown to matches just to get robbed when he gets there and not on the pool table but under it.

2. Harold "Hitman" MacAbee. You guys check out the voting for the Louie Roberts award at the DCC for the last 3 years and you will find Harold's name right at the top each year.

3. Scotty Townsend. Scotty could easily be in the list with the older players also because his heart spans that many years.

4. John Drew Hagar Jr. Ask anyone who know, John Drew Hagar, just how much heart this young man has. John Drew, will jump into a ring game with SVB, Efren and alike. Both his parents were the same way.

I could go on but I thought I would let someone else take a shot.

I staked Stevens against a guy in Denver years ago. When it was done, Craig and I got into this big argument and I ended up leaving him there.
You see, Craig won $310 aat $10 per game and wanted to loan the guy his mone back to him and play some more.

JOEY
12-23-2007, 09:16 PM
hey LJ, hows it goin? are you going to the derby this year?? if so, ill see ya there.... first beer is on me.
joey

Tin Man
12-23-2007, 09:28 PM
the match in the 1990 US Open was my favorite.

Nick trails 9-2 in a race to 11, and is cornerhooked. He makes a long rail kick, a tough bank, then gets to 5 before Sigel makes it to the hill. Nick then wins 6 straight games to put him away.

PLEASE, if anyone has a copy of this match pm me, I would love to obtain a copy and even accu-stats couldn't help me out when I emailed them. HELP!!!

By the way, Nick is the definition of heart. Just ask Billy or Grady. When he does commentary he makes remarks like:

(when facing a hideous hook) I believe that he has a pretty good 3 rail opportunity here

or

(when facing a tough return safety down 7-1 racing to 9) I'll tell you what, if he can chip the left edge of that ball and get up table, he might get back to the table this rack, then if he can get out this game and put a couple more racks together, the way this table is breaking, I'd kind of like my chances........

How do you beat that???

dgarfoot
12-23-2007, 09:31 PM
I agree, LJ has more heart than 99% of the players I have ever seen play. Saw him play at the Break in Cahokia a few times in what looked to be a pretty brutal ring game. Also seen him matched up w/some of the best in one pocket at various places.

ironman
12-23-2007, 10:08 PM
I agree, LJ has more heart than 99% of the players I have ever seen play. Saw him play at the Break in Cahokia a few times in what looked to be a pretty brutal ring game. Also seen him matched up w/some of the best in one pocket at various places.

I watched him in a 10 ball ring game In austin Tx 2 years ago. LJ, Gabe, James Walden, and Chuck Ralston for $40 a man.

Chuck won the 1st, then LJ won 9 in a row and broke up the game. It was impressive.

Merry Christmas John,
Lewis

PoolBum
12-23-2007, 10:09 PM
Guess I posted this in the wrong thread:

1) Mike Sigel runs 150 and out on you, but on the very first turn of your next match you run 148 against Ray Martin.................... you're Mike Zuglan at the 1992 US Open Straight Pool Championships and you've got heart.



Yes, and then you shoot yourself in the head for missing a combination and not getting to 150! :D

I used to watch Mike and Grady play exhibitions at a pool room up in Massachusetts back in the 1980's, and it was always great to watch them both.

jay helfert
12-23-2007, 10:19 PM
You're barely over 5 feet tall.

You walk into the roughest joints in the country, post your money on the light and play the best the place has to offer for the cheese.

You win world titles in both one pocket and 3 cushion billiards.

You win recognized major titles in 8 Ball, 9 Ball , straight pool , one pocket and 3C billiards.

You win consecutive US Opens in 3 cushion billiards from the lossers bracket.

You win more Jansco Brothers one pocket tournaments in Johnston City than "any" other player, including 4 consecutively 1965-1968.

You play in the finals for the "All Around" title in Johnston City twice, once against Luther Lassiter and once against Harold Worst, both under the lights of ABC Sports.

You have heart.

You're Larry "Boston Shorty" Johnson

Tap! Tap!

More heart per ounce than anyone I ever saw. He never backed down from anyone. Another little guy with a big heart was Parica who lined up all the champions and mowed 'em down one by one. And the third shorty is Rafael, who will challenge anyone in a heartbeat. He was a scary money player for many years. May still be.

Biggest heart today may belong to our own SVB. He ain't ducking anybody!
And I have to vote for Busti too. He lost a set to Johnny where he ran 13 racks and out. Francisco flipped a coin for the next set like "no big deal" and then he beat Archer right back.

JOEY
12-23-2007, 10:47 PM
jay, i was sitting in the lobby last year at the derby with george middleditch, and mataya when busti walked by and they asked him about that very same story. busti said that after archer ran the 13 and out, busti doubled the bet and took it down. that takes a very large sack in my eyes.
see ya at the derby,
joey

derekdisco
12-23-2007, 11:38 PM
jay, i was sitting in the lobby last year at the derby with george middleditch, and mataya when busti walked by and they asked him about that very same story. busti said that after archer ran the 13 and out, busti doubled the bet and took it down. that takes a very large sack in my eyes.
see ya at the derby,
joey


I heard Fransisco wanted to double the bet and johny wouldnt. So fransisco wins the next set and johnny unscrewed. Thats what I heard.

JOEY
12-24-2007, 12:21 AM
derek, this was straight out of franciscos mouth.... unless he forgot the exact details..... ya never know.
see ya at the derby,
joey

hemicudas
12-24-2007, 12:30 AM
I staked Stevens against a guy in Denver years ago. When it was done, Craig and I got into this big argument and I ended up leaving him there.
You see, Craig won $310 aat $10 per game and wanted to loan the guy his mone back to him and play some more.

He had heart for sure but that wasn't heart, that was 75mg Preludins speaking, Ironman.

hilla_hilla
12-24-2007, 02:00 AM
I know several players that have a ton of heart.

Sue Lance, one of my best friends. I watched her play $200 sets til 5am. EVERY night, day in and day out she is in the pool hall practicing or gambling with all of the guys doing whatever she can to make her game better.

Another friend of mine Greyhounds out of state to play women's qualifiers and wins! For her to be willing to put out that effort, that's a ton of heart!

There are tons of players from Southern California that I think are awesome that all have a lot of heart including: Louis Ulrich, Dave Hemmah, Brian Parks, Sam Manaole, and Oscar/Ernesto Dominguez. Phoenix Jimmy Mendoza is also another player with a lot of heart:) .

gopi-1
12-24-2007, 02:22 AM
How about being down 1-10 in a race to 11, alternate breaks playing Allen Hopkins and still wins? Is that big enough for everybody? ;)

hilla_hilla
12-24-2007, 02:28 AM
How about being down 1-10 in a race to 11, alternate breaks playing Allen Hopkins and still wins? Is that big enough for everybody? ;)

Efren Reyes! I watched that match at the BCA 2 years ago (?) :) .

The Milk Man
12-24-2007, 02:33 AM
I heard Fransisco wanted to double the bet and johny wouldnt. So fransisco wins the next set and johnny unscrewed. Thats what I heard.

Busta did win the second set put a 7 or 8 pack on Archer to start the set. I believe they did quit after the second set. I don't however remember if the bet was raised after the first set. I had only been playing the game for maybe 6 months when I saw this go down. I became truly addicted to this game on that day

ironman
12-24-2007, 06:42 PM
He had heart for sure but that wasn't heart, that was 75mg Preludins speaking, Ironman.

You are pretty close there Bill. He shook a bagg of pills and took them all at once. It was 32 white crosses. This was in 1974. We counted the remainder of the 100 lot bag.

liljon
12-24-2007, 06:43 PM
Bobby Pickle, Jesse Bowman, Chris Bartum, Keith Mcready,Erman Bullard are guys that I have battled with that have all showed me gamble and heart. Oh how could I forget Marcus Chamant, after that game he out ran at derby a few years back....Ill think of others as this thread goes on. There are several that play good and have no heart but thats a thread for another day.

Fatboy
12-24-2007, 07:37 PM
there was a guy in modesto Ca that played at Blvd. Billiards almost every night he name was "Chul" I think, anyways he was awalys in action $20-$200 sets everytime I saw him soon as he was done with one player he would play the next guy, he would play all night, he improved quickly. I cant rember if I played him I might have I was a better player at the time I seem to think I lost $100 to him once-I was broke then, but he had heart he would play anybody for as long as they would play, if he was loser he after 3 or 4 sets would try and negoiate a different game, if he couldnt he would just play the next guy, he never stopped. After 6 months he played better than me-I moved and lost touch. He was fearless, he wasnt rich either.

philw
12-24-2007, 09:47 PM
1. First has to be Louie Roberts. Too many examples to start a list.

2. Greg Stevens. Greg asked guys what they wanted then gave it to them.

3. Dan Louie. Played Buddy Hall even and liked it.

4. Keith McCready. Like Greg Stevens, Keith gave up the world and out ran it.

Now for today's players.

1. The first guy has to be you yourself, LJ. I dare anyone to argue with that selection. Lil Jon, has mixed it up with anyone at any time for years now. Jon, has flown to matches just to get robbed when he gets there and not on the pool table but under it.

2. Harold "Hitman" MacAbee. You guys check out the voting for the Louie Roberts award at the DCC for the last 3 years and you will find Harold's name right at the top each year.

3. Scotty Townsend. Scotty could easily be in the list with the older players also because his heart spans that many years.

4. John Drew Hagar Jr. Ask anyone who know, John Drew Hagar, just how much heart this young man has. John Drew, will jump into a ring game with SVB, Efren and alike. Both his parents were the same way.

I could go on but I thought I would let someone else take a shot.
Kudos Hemi! Louie Roberts had a heart as big as Warren Buffets bankroll
I had the pleasure of watching him win a tourney at Protime (southside Chicago) just months before he died. He got out from everywhere and didn't know what a safety was. He did absolutely no ducking. I don't think I have ever seen a single display of pure shotmaking genius that could match that performance. Philw

Drawman623
12-25-2007, 04:46 AM
Shawn Putnam comes up from the chair ready to runout no matter what the score.

I also agree with many posters, Varner has proven his heart over and over again.

jayburger
12-25-2007, 05:00 AM
I heard Fransisco wanted to double the bet and johny wouldnt. So fransisco wins the next set and johnny unscrewed. Thats what I heard.
iv'e heard this story for years and it was just like derek said, when they go to flip for the second set break busta asked"wanna double it" and archer was stunned. said no and busta wins to break even.

worriedbeef
12-25-2007, 05:08 AM
1) Mike Sigel runs 150 and out on you, but on the very first turn of your next match you run 148 against Ray Martin.................... you're Mike Zuglan at the 1992 US Open Straight Pool Championships and you've got heart.

interesting. everybody knows about sigel's perfect 150 and out, but i didn't know zuglan did more or less the same thing the game after!

Voodoo Daddy
12-25-2007, 07:59 AM
Varner...may be all heart <all 110 lbs of him>
Bartrum...wow is all I can say

Road Warrior Award;
Toby Sweet..unless you seen it you wouldnt compute it

wincardona
12-25-2007, 10:05 AM
iv'e heard this story for years and it was just like derek said, when they go to flip for the second set break busta asked"wanna double it" and archer was stunned. said no and busta wins to break even.
Gentlemen,what Bustamante said was true,I was betting on Archer and lost my money,all on the second set.Bustamante is a much better gambler than he is a tournament player.There are other great players that play much better for the cheese than they do in tournaments,including myself.My greatness is far behind me,so it could be possible that I will start to play better in tournaments now. Just kidding,but I hope so.We will find out after I enter the onepocket at the DCC. Merry Christmas to all,see you at the DCC.

vagabond
12-25-2007, 10:22 AM
Gentlemen,what Bustamante said was true,I was betting on Archer and lost my money,all on the second set.Bustamante is a much better gambler than he is a tournament player.There are other great players that play much better for the cheese than they do in tournaments,including myself.My greatness is far behind me,so it could be possible that I will start to play better in tournaments now. Just kidding,but I hope so.We will find out after I enter the onepocket at the DCC. Merry Christmas to all,see you at the DCC.

one of the few things I remember about that match is that one time two balls got stuck in the mouth of the corner pocket and there was a question about the rules.Then 'No saint'Billy was called in to give a ruling on the situation.
Another thing I remember from that match was the way Busta sprang out of his chair to ask johny to double the bet for the third set.

In the last 14-15 years on few occasions I ran into the backer of Busta for that famous match and that dude lost all his diamonds and wealth and is a very simple looking guy now.:cool:

Fatboy
12-25-2007, 10:48 AM
Gentlemen,what Bustamante said was true,I was betting on Archer and lost my money,all on the second set.Bustamante is a much better gambler than he is a tournament player.There are other great players that play much better for the cheese than they do in tournaments,including myself.My greatness is far behind me,so it could be possible that I will start to play better in tournaments now. Just kidding,but I hope so.We will find out after I enter the onepocket at the DCC. Merry Christmas to all,see you at the DCC.


if a guy ran that many on me, and I played like Busta, I would do the samr thing, its agood move, you gotta figure th guy shot his load and will fold up ESPECIALLY asking to double the bet. What else could have Busta done? Great move.

I play like shit compaired to those guys but I have done similar things in spots, where I figure the guy was playing over his head and I asked to double up, its like the cube in backgammon, it will really give you a good read on who your playing when you offer it.<----see Fatboy aint so green.:cool:

Tommy-D
12-25-2007, 01:29 PM
> George Fels wrote an article back in the 80's very similar to the general point of this thread. In his article,one of the most notable examples he gave was a match Luther Lassiter played in 1940's Norfolk. He was playing a local player 100-60 in 14.1 for 5000. Luther was nearly defeated when his opponent caught a gear and ran 58 balls,leaving him stuck 58-8. Luther,risking a 10k turnaround every time the balls were broken or even leaving himself tough,simply ran 92-out for the cash. Adjusted for inflation,that would be close to 60k now. That is heart,period.

Another thing about heart that George noted correctly is that at some point,just about ALL of us have been or will be accused of not having any,along with 20 million other players.


The only players that have EVER accused me of not having an enlarged ticker are those that have never been in the box with me. I simply don't have the bankroll,or at the moment,the game to let it fully manifest itself.

I was a defensive back in high school football,and played late in blowout games for most of my 3 years on the varsity. Before an important district game my senior year,our best corner got arrested and kicked off the team,the other starter pulled a hamstring in warm-ups before the game. I started on 45 minutes notice,against an All-State receiver 6 inches taller than me and probably half a second faster in the 40. I held him to 2 catches for 24 yards,with no scores,and had 2 interceptions,a forced fumble,2 tips,and caused him to drop 5 other balls. He told me he licked his chops before the game,thinking he was going to pad his 178 yards per game average,and 19 scores. After the game,he said he felt like he was being double-teamed,because my heart was twice as big as any corner he had faced. He played in the NFL for 3 years. I'd say I have a little. Rib and a few others here have seen it too. Tommy D.

VARick
12-25-2007, 02:45 PM
[QUOTE=Tin Man]the match in the 1990 US Open was my favorite.

Nick trails 9-2 in a race to 11, and is cornerhooked. He makes a long rail kick, a tough bank, then gets to 5 before Sigel makes it to the hill. Nick then wins 6 straight games to put him away.

PLEASE, if anyone has a copy of this match pm me, I would love to obtain a copy and even accu-stats couldn't help me out when I emailed them. HELP!!!


If I'm not mistaken, this match is available now on DVD at the Accu-Stats website. Look under the "The Classics" DVD category. They've titled it "The Miss," for obvious reasons if you've seen the entire contest. What happens after The Miss is amazing as well. Personally, I think "The Comeback" would be a better title, despite the double surprise ending of this unusual match.

akaTrigger
12-25-2007, 06:06 PM
I immediately thought of Bustamante for getting second after his daughter passed, and also June and John Drew Hager. I've seen both of these players play with amazing heart - over and over and over again.

Side note, link from Johnny's (http://www.johnnyarcher.net/) website: 13 & Out! (http://www.azbilliards.com/roadstories/index.html)

jay helfert
12-25-2007, 06:32 PM
> George Fels wrote an article back in the 80's very similar to the general point of this thread. In his article,one of the most notable examples he gave was a match Luther Lassiter played in 1940's Norfolk. He was playing a local player 100-60 in 14.1 for 5000. Luther was nearly defeated when his opponent caught a gear and ran 58 balls,leaving him stuck 58-8. Luther,risking a 10k turnaround every time the balls were broken or even leaving himself tough,simply ran 92-out for the cash. Adjusted for inflation,that would be close to 60k now. That is heart,period.

Another thing about heart that George noted correctly is that at some point,just about ALL of us have been or will be accused of not having any,along with 20 million other players.


The only players that have EVER accused me of not having an enlarged ticker are those that have never been in the box with me. I simply don't have the bankroll,or at the moment,the game to let it fully manifest itself.

I was a defensive back in high school football,and played late in blowout games for most of my 3 years on the varsity. Before an important district game my senior year,our best corner got arrested and kicked off the team,the other starter pulled a hamstring in warm-ups before the game. I started on 45 minutes notice,against an All-State receiver 6 inches taller than me and probably half a second faster in the 40. I held him to 2 catches for 24 yards,with no scores,and had 2 interceptions,a forced fumble,2 tips,and caused him to drop 5 other balls. He told me he licked his chops before the game,thinking he was going to pad his 178 yards per game average,and 19 scores. After the game,he said he felt like he was being double-teamed,because my heart was twice as big as any corner he had faced. He played in the NFL for 3 years. I'd say I have a little. Rib and a few others here have seen it too. Tommy D.

Tommy Dilorenzo?

jrhendy
12-25-2007, 07:31 PM
Tommy Dilorenzo?

Jay, I don't think this is the same Tommy D we know who is in Arizona now. I made the same mistake replying to a post of his some time back. I believe he is an east coast guy & an old pool scuff like us, if you read any of his posts. maybe he can enlighten us. John

crawfish
12-25-2007, 07:54 PM
I'm playing the owner of a bar one time. We're betting twenty a game. I'm $440 stuck. Barbox. I raised the bet to $100 a game and ended up winning around $4-600? I have it written down somewhere. I keep track of most anything over $200. Not that I am the epitomy of heart or anything, but that sure made me feel like it at the time.

vagabond
12-25-2007, 10:01 PM
Jay, I don't think this is the same Tommy D we know who is in Arizona now. I made the same mistake replying to a post of his some time back. I believe he is an east coast guy & an old pool scuff like us, if you read any of his posts. maybe he can enlighten us. John



A friend of yours from sacramento/sanfrancisco area by name paul with some Italian last name around the age of 62 has been hanging around the pool rooms in vegas for 8-10 weeks.he has a stroke what I call a 'hustlers stroke' and always has been looking for some game in one pocket and some times in 9 ball.
You are right.That guy is a nice guy and is NOT Tommy Dlorenzo:cool:

JoeyInCali
12-25-2007, 10:24 PM
Efren down 87-104 going to 120 against Earl. Ties it at 111-111. Then down 115-117. Wins it 120-117.
Allison Fisher? Comes back so often it's just disheartening to a lot of ladies.

hemicudas
12-25-2007, 10:30 PM
Lori Shampo, God rest her soul, had the heart of a lioness. She would crank it up with any of the guys, just get the game close to right. Most feared woman cash player ever.

jrhendy
12-25-2007, 11:13 PM
A friend of yours from sacramento/sanfrancisco area by name paul with some Italian last name around the age of 62 has been hanging around the pool rooms in vegas for 8-10 weeks.he has a stroke what I call a 'hustlers stroke' and always has been looking for some game in one pocket and some times in 9 ball.
You are right.That guy is a nice guy and is NOT Tommy Dlorenzo:cool:

I heard my old friend Paul moved to Las Vegas. He pokes the ball, no backswing, and has always played like that. He is a good guy and good action for a pool room cause he is fair player and not a world beater and will play cheap for something to do. John

PoolBum
12-25-2007, 11:21 PM
Efren down 87-104 going to 120 against Earl. Ties it at 111-111. Then down 115-117. Wins it 120-117.


Actually Efren was up 117-113, and Earl came back to tie it at 117.

With Efren up 118-117 he failed to pocket a ball on the break, Earl then scratched on the 1, Efren then missed the 2 with ball in hand, and Earl then missed the 3 in the side, before Efren finally won that rack and the last one to win the match.

jay helfert
12-25-2007, 11:35 PM
Actually Efren was up 117-113, and Earl came back to tie it at 117.

With Efren up 118-117 he failed to pocket a ball on the break, Earl then scratched on the 1, Efren then missed the 2 with ball in hand, and Earl then missed the 3 in the side, before Efren finally won that rack and the last one to win the match.

And Earl's never been the same since. :)

It's a joke folks! Just a joke! I couldn't resist.

Playsome
12-26-2007, 12:57 AM
There are a couple guys here in Modesto that lose thousands and thousands matching up with various people, month in and month out. Everybody always tells them how much heart they've got as they're leaving the poolroom, broke! That's not the kind of heart I want.:D
Fatboy talked about a kid in Modesto that was wheelchair bound and although I never met him I knew right away that it was a kid named Timmy that is still talked about by the "oldtimers" as an example of heart and class.
To me the definition of heart is the person that you are never safe against, no matter how far ahead you are; the guy that just keeps coming at you until he's busted or beats you. My dads name is Len Swisher and I once saw him beat 5 champions in a row at the Reno tournament (Amar, Parica, Luat, Chohan, MacDonald) in route to a top eight finish, all this at the age of 55 and holding down a full time job. I always thought that took heart.
Speaking of Modesto boys, doesn't Kim have a lil' heart?.........Marc Swisher

Stones
12-26-2007, 02:18 AM
this aint about pool, but i'm gonna brag a little. The day my mom died after 2.5 years of cancer I was with her the whole time, i'm an only child, she died a long crule battle with a disease that knows no boundarys. I got the call at 9:30 Am, I erased her number from my phone and went back to sleep-I was up for about 2 days and got to sleep at about 5am, I knew we had lost the battle, 30 minutes later I got up at 10AM and went to work like nothing had happened, as she wanted me to do, I didnt tell anyone for about a month. I did what she wanted, not skip a beat because she passed, thats heart.


As for pool the guys with heart never talk about it, I only made the other thread to see what people would say I was curious. I will let my peers judge me.

Happy Christmas,

RIP mom<-----thats the hard part the next few days, her anniversary with my dad is Jan 6. I lost dad in 2000. Now I'm alone, I lived for my parents, now you know a little about me personally.

Bud, you ain't alone!

Stones

freddy the beard
12-26-2007, 05:40 AM
Lori Shampo, God rest her soul, had the heart of a lioness. She would crank it up with any of the guys, just get the game close to right. Most feared woman cash player ever.

She had no peer! Played sets for 5 and 10k regularly. One of my life's regrets is never hooking up with her. There was always a little heat between us but it remained unrequited. We were both in action too much. Few women dared gamble with her, and if you were a guy you had better have a real good game before you got down. Broke the balls as hard as anybody.

the Beard

hemicudas
12-26-2007, 05:46 AM
And Earl's never been the same since. :)

It's a joke folks! Just a joke! I couldn't resist.

Sure, it is a joke,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but you have to admit,,,,,,,,,,the timing is interesting.

iba7467
12-26-2007, 06:31 AM
Justin Cone, the kid doesn't play as good as the best, but he'll play them. I watched him play $100/game one pocket for over 36 hours. After grinding the whole time, he won about $1300.

j_kronz79
12-30-2007, 06:21 PM
i once played matlock in olathe, kansas. he comes up dry and i hit him with 7. only 2 get kicked in the side going for 8. then he proceeds to hit me with 8 and puts me in alcatraz to win the set.

raybo147
12-30-2007, 07:08 PM
> George Fels wrote an article back in the 80's very similar to the general point of this thread. In his article,one of the most notable examples he gave was a match Luther Lassiter played in 1940's Norfolk. He was playing a local player 100-60 in 14.1 for 5000. Luther was nearly defeated when his opponent caught a gear and ran 58 balls,leaving him stuck 58-8. Luther,risking a 10k turnaround every time the balls were broken or even leaving himself tough,simply ran 92-out for the cash. Adjusted for inflation,that would be close to 60k now. That is heart,period.

Another thing about heart that George noted correctly is that at some point,just about ALL of us have been or will be accused of not having any,along with 20 million other players.


The only players that have EVER accused me of not having an enlarged ticker are those that have never been in the box with me. I simply don't have the bankroll,or at the moment,the game to let it fully manifest itself.

I was a defensive back in high school football,and played late in blowout games for most of my 3 years on the varsity. Before an important district game my senior year,our best corner got arrested and kicked off the team,the other starter pulled a hamstring in warm-ups before the game. I started on 45 minutes notice,against an All-State receiver 6 inches taller than me and probably half a second faster in the 40. I held him to 2 catches for 24 yards,with no scores,and had 2 interceptions,a forced fumble,2 tips,and caused him to drop 5 other balls. He told me he licked his chops before the game,thinking he was going to pad his 178 yards per game average,and 19 scores. After the game,he said he felt like he was being double-teamed,because my heart was twice as big as any corner he had faced. He played in the NFL for 3 years. I'd say I have a little. Rib and a few others here have seen it too. Tommy D.
Tommy do you own a Corvette?

Tommy-D
12-31-2007, 02:58 AM
> Sheeeit,I wish.........

> There has been some confusion about this before,Tom DiLorenzo and I are not the same person. Tommy D.

WheatCues
12-31-2007, 03:33 AM
What players are considered to have heart and why? I was reading the definition of "heart" on another thread and Im curious for examples of heart that have been displayed in the last ten years that the forum members identify as truly showing "heart." I'll post a few examples that Ive witnessed myself that I think identifies heart... Ljon


That's an interesting question and the answer is what separates the front runners from the true player's...

As a gambler and tournament player, I find myself leaning more torward the tourny scenario simply because there is more pressure and it's balls-to-the-wall as far as getting it together in one set... and what sets the typical players :front runners" aside from the ones who have heart is this : Knowing what you can do in a losing situation and being able to turn it around and win regardless... those of you who know me know what I mean !!!

I'ts believing in your talent and game and never giving up until the final 9-ball is pocketed...

I have been on the road numerous times myself and in one particular instance was playing for 40.00 a game and down 700.00 with 20.00 left in my pocket 400+ miles from home paying after every rack and came back and got even then offered my opponent the last 3 if wanted to bet 50.00... and he quit.

This is just an example of heart and never giving up, I myself have been in those situations several times, and not to brag.. but self confidence and knowing who your are and what kind of player you are under extreme unfavorable conditions and when it's absolutely neccessary, being able to sieze the opportunity and win.. and that is heart....

Anyone can front run 80% of the pros. have that down to a science.... but what defines heart is never giving up no matter what and then coming back and winning, it takes a strong mind and alot of cynicism to be like that and your own best friend in this game, because when your are frozen to the rail on the nine ball and it's in the middle of the table in a straight line to the corner pocket, and your stuck too many sets and this is do or die, you have to be able to compose yourself and convert the negative energy into positive and not just pocket the ball but fire it in.. just to see the expression on your opponents face becasue he thought he had you beat, and observe the pain and disaapointment in your opponents face becasue he would have bet the farm you would have missed it....

Those of you who know me, have seen me in thoses situations many of times.... but this isn't about me... I'm just giving you the definition and examples of "heart".

Plain and simple heart is about never giving up and proving to yourself and your opponent that you will win no matter what the score is and grinding it out unti the end when you make him say uncle and showing him/her that you are are willing to goto hell and back and run out of money before you ever give up becasue you believe in yourself and know beyond the shadow of a doubt about what you can do when everything is against you and you don;t give up becasue you know in the back of your mind that you WILL win, even when the game is staring you directly in the face and daring you to choke !

I didn't mean to go off on a tangent but I just wanted to define heart and give and example of one of many personal experiences I have turned from losing everything to winning becasue I never gave up !!!!

Just remember.... the mind is a terrible thing !!! so the less you think and the more reflexive you are in this game then the better off you are !


I hope this is the definition you were looking for !

if not here's a more concise definition: heart is about never giving up on yourself no matter how far behind you are because you know what you can do and then you make it happen regardless !!!

So given that example now you decide what players fall under that catagory !


SIncerely - Eddie Wheat

pooldawg1
01-02-2008, 02:57 PM
My votes for John Drew Hager. His favorite saying used to be "I like the nuts but I will sure play without them."

aagreer
01-02-2008, 09:06 PM
Jon Hennessee he knows he can get there but when he doesn't he's just torn down

Snapshot9
01-02-2008, 10:19 PM
yeah, when a player keeps on playing until a railbird turns to the guy next to him and says, 'You remember that movie, They shoot horses, don't they?'.

smashmouth
01-02-2008, 11:50 PM
I'm gonna agree with the person who said road players

I'm not sure if there's any real ones left, but if there is, Godbless them

any top pros, or anyone else for that matter that put up their own cash against the best also have huge heart imo, especially those pros that do not ask for weight from other pros

a pro that GIVES weight to other top pros and bets his own cash is rare indeed, that's ridiculous heart, not too many of those, I know Efren and Orcullo give crazy spots but I don't think they use their own cash

I know Alex P used his own funds regularly, America AND Phillipines

jay helfert
01-03-2008, 05:39 AM
I'm gonna agree with the person who said road players

I'm not sure if there's any real ones left, but if there is, Godbless them

any top pros, or anyone else for that matter that put up their own cash against the best also have huge heart imo, especially those pros that do not ask for weight from other pros

a pro that GIVES weight to other top pros and bets his own cash is rare indeed, that's ridiculous heart, not too many of those, I know Efren and Orcullo give crazy spots but I don't think they use their own cash

I know Alex P used his own funds regularly, America AND Phillipines

Hopkins has been doing it for over 30 years. Present day, probably Chris Bartrum and Little John and a few others.

Matt_24
01-03-2008, 05:53 AM
I heard HOPKINS was one of the strongest gamblers in the country in his day. Thoughts Jay??

Rick S.
01-03-2008, 06:25 AM
Justin Cone, the kid doesn't play as good as the best, but he'll play them. I watched him play $100/game one pocket for over 36 hours. After grinding the whole time, he won about $1300.

"Grinding the whole time".... you hit the nail on the head with that one.

Rick S.