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Juda4936
01-09-2008, 03:18 PM
I have a really hard time playing for money:mad:

I'm not a bad player (APA7) (BCA a B player at the coast)

But when it comes to playing for money, I see People maybe APA 5's if that play and win.

I will say I have never really played for money (I play in a weekly ring game and do just fine, but they are just my freinds)

I'm Not going to go around hustling bar shooters but there are some games I would not mind getting in on, but it seems I have a block

I played a guy I know I'm better than for a race to 3 for $20.00 nothing hard core, but I could not bring my game:confused: He plays for money a lot in bars, and he can not even run more than 4 balls but he wins:( :confused:

Do I just need to play tournaments (more then once a year)? More money games and just lose until I'm comfortable?

Any one have any ideas

steev
01-09-2008, 03:29 PM
I have a really hard time playing for money:mad:

I'm not a bad player (APA7) (BCA a B player at the coast)

But when it comes to playing for money, I see People maybe APA 5's if that play and win.

I will say I have never really played for money (I play in a weekly ring game and do just fine, but they are just my freinds)

I'm Not going to go around hustling bar shouters shooters? but there are some games I would not mine mind? getting in on, but it seens seems? I have a block

I played a guy I know I'm better then THAN for a race to 3 for $20.00 nothing hard core, but I could not bring my game:confused: He plays for money a lot in bars, and he can not even run more then THAN 4 balls but he wins:( :confused:

Do I just need to play tournaments (more then once a year)? More money games and just loose lose tell til? until? I'm comfortable?

Any one have any ideas

my turn to be grammar/spelling police :D

-s

efirkey
01-09-2008, 03:35 PM
I have a really hard time playing for money:mad:

I'm not a bad player (APA7) (BCA a B player at the coast)

But when it comes to playing for money, I see People maybe APA 5's if that play and win.

I will say I have never really played for money (I play in a weekly ring game and do just fine, but they are just my freinds)

I'm Not going to go around hustling bar shouters but there are some games I would not mine getting in on, but it seens I have a block

I played a guy I know I'm better then for a race to 3 for $20.00 nothing hard core, but I could not bring my game:confused: He plays for money a lot in bars, and he can not even run more then 4 balls but he wins:( :confused:

Do I just need to play tournaments (more then once a year)? More money games and just loose tell I'm comfortable?

Any one have any ideas

There is no rule that says you have to gamble to enjoy playing pool. Why does everyone feel the need to gamble?

cigardave
01-09-2008, 03:36 PM
My recommendation would be to first decide if you like playing for money. Not every pool player needs to in my opinion. Betting it up with friends is quite a bit different than betting it up with strangers.

If you decide that you want to, start playing some sets for $20 or $50 with your friends first. Sounds to me like you have some anxiety over betting it up... and my recommendation would be to gradually work your way up the ladder (if you can stand heights).

ABall
01-09-2008, 03:55 PM
I will say I have never really played for money


Is this your problem? How can you say you have trouble playing for money when you have never really played for money. My advise is play longer sets to 6..7..8 . If you lose, at least you got your moneys worth. Also, the longer the set, the more likely the better player will win.

Snapshot9
01-09-2008, 03:59 PM
Why the best players are the ones that have gambled for thousands of dollars, because they are battle proven, and you have to have control of yourself and your emotions. Yes, as you go up the ladder, you will get the
'jitters', but once you get past that, you can elevate your game quite a bit.

By all means, play in every tournament you can, that is good too. Ralf Souquet is someone that achieved excellence without gambling, but usually the ones that can withstand the most pressure, whether for money or an important tournament are the ones that have gambled big.

Someone that elevated his game a lot by gambling: Darren Appleton

Even in a tournament, I will usually side with the big money player vs just a tournament player when they play.

Before Buddy Hall turned Pro, and was in the top 5 pro players for over 20 years straight, he was the Best Road Player in the whole country, and gambled big.

Hierovision
01-09-2008, 04:05 PM
Play tournaments. I'm a b- by the standards posted here a while back and I don't gamble. I'm steadily improving and I wouldn't get any better worrying about how much I have left in my bank account. Tournaments are essentially money games but you have nothing to lose... it just tempers you for more tournaments.

pletho
01-09-2008, 04:12 PM
not much help here is there......

Juda4936
01-09-2008, 05:16 PM
Thanks guys
I am thinking of going to Super Billiard Expo and shooting here in the amateurs and just thought playing money games would really help with tournament play. I hardly ever shoot for money, but I only once a year play in a BCA tournament at the Coast. So I think I should have named the thread differently after thinking about it:o

Does playing in Bar tournaments help with big events more then money games?

shinobi
01-09-2008, 06:04 PM
Just fight through it. Keep playing tournaments and gambling and your nerves should settle. That is, unless you're playing for your rent ;)

Also, I try to avoid too much caffeine since it would make me a little more high-strung to begin with. Likewise you hear some people say that they play better after a drink or two, because it calms their nerves. Not saying you should drink... just think about all the factors that might be making you nervous or relaxed...

our_auctionguy
01-09-2008, 06:13 PM
I know I may get lambasted here, but I think that a 7 and even an 8 isn't good enough to be playing 9 ball for money regardles of the opponents skills. At these levels, you are not a run-out player and therefore the likelihood of you running up to the 7, 8, or 9 and leaving any halfway decent opponent an out increases. Leave me an opener with the last 3 or 4 balls, and I am 90% of the way home, and I would be a 7 or 8 myself.

Another issue is weight. I played a guy that actually should be a 5 or 6 and I gave up the 8 for cheap $20 sets. After succumbing to his blind luck of homerunnig the 8 ball on squirrel shots time and time again, or me messing up while running up to the 7 and leaving him a 2 shot out, I was 3 sets down and knew I was SOL unless I changed the game to prove who is the better more consistent shooter.... 8 Ball.

I threw out the $100 race to 10 giving him 4 on the wire and blasted him 10-7.

I knew he could not make more than 3 or 4 balls at a time, and in 8 ball, I know that when I am firing at the 8 on my first or second outing and miss, he still has to get past his remaining balls to get to the money ball. Not the same game as 9. I collected the $100 and offerd to add another game on the wire and go again, and you know what he said.

Unless one is at least a good 8 or above, I really don't think 9 ball is a game with odds in their favor regardless of who they play. I suck at 9 ball for money just because I can run up to 7 or 8 consistently with great shape on most shots and then end up leaving the opponent an out because of a wtf??? shot. The choke factor is also a big issue. If you miss the 9 or screw up a defensive shot on it, you could easily be giving up the game. Not always the same case in 8 ball. Okay, Boys let her rip with the " 8 ball is a pussy's game comments" I know someone in the crowd is gonna say it.

Juda4936
01-09-2008, 06:31 PM
Yes I'm a 7 in 8ball and a 7 in 9ball
I'm a much better 8 ball shooter, good call, but there are not a lot of 8 ball tournaments out there

ironman
01-09-2008, 06:32 PM
I have a really hard time playing for money:mad:

I'm not a bad player (APA7) (BCA a B player at the coast)

But when it comes to playing for money, I see People maybe APA 5's if that play and win.

I will say I have never really played for money (I play in a weekly ring game and do just fine, but they are just my freinds)

I'm Not going to go around hustling bar shooters but there are some games I would not mind getting in on, but it seems I have a block

I played a guy I know I'm better than for a race to 3 for $20.00 nothing hard core, but I could not bring my game:confused: He plays for money a lot in bars, and he can not even run more than 4 balls but he wins:( :confused:

Do I just need to play tournaments (more then once a year)? More money games and just lose until I'm comfortable?

Any one have any ideas

Don't stress over it so much. It is only a big deal if you make it one. Just like anything else, the more you do it, the more comfortable you get with it.

jebdrup
01-09-2008, 06:48 PM
my turn to be grammar/spelling police :D

Can I say it? YES, say it. What a dick. :D

deanoc
01-09-2008, 06:55 PM
Here is the absolute best advice you will ever get.
Quit gambling altogether,you have little to gain and everything to lose.

There are very few gamblers who end up with money and it never makes friends.

DEAN

Patrick53212
01-09-2008, 06:59 PM
I know I may get lambasted here, but I think that a 7 and even an 8 isn't good enough to be playing 9 ball for money regardles of the opponents skills. At these levels, you are not a run-out player and therefore the likelihood of you running up to the 7, 8, or 9 and leaving any halfway decent opponent an out increases. Leave me an opener with the last 3 or 4 balls, and I am 90% of the way home, and I would be a 7 or 8 myself.

Another issue is weight. I played a guy that actually should be a 5 or 6 and I gave up the 8 for cheap $20 sets. After succumbing to his blind luck of homerunnig the 8 ball on squirrel shots time and time again, or me messing up while running up to the 7 and leaving him a 2 shot out, I was 3 sets down and knew I was SOL unless I changed the game to prove who is the better more consistent shooter.... 8 Ball.

I threw out the $100 race to 10 giving him 4 on the wire and blasted him 10-7.

I knew he could not make more than 3 or 4 balls at a time, and in 8 ball, I know that when I am firing at the 8 on my first or second outing and miss, he still has to get past his remaining balls to get to the money ball. Not the same game as 9. I collected the $100 and offerd to add another game on the wire and go again, and you know what he said.

Unless one is at least a good 8 or above, I really don't think 9 ball is a game with odds in their favor regardless of who they play. I suck at 9 ball for money just because I can run up to 7 or 8 consistently with great shape on most shots and then end up leaving the opponent an out because of a wtf??? shot. The choke factor is also a big issue. If you miss the 9 or screw up a defensive shot on it, you could easily be giving up the game. Not always the same case in 8 ball. Okay, Boys let her rip with the " 8 ball is a pussy's game comments" I know someone in the crowd is gonna say it.

I would say you are right on. Unless you can consistently run out or play hella safeties, stay away from 9-ball for money. I would highly recommend getting your 8-ball game in order. If you must play another game...work on banks or one-pocket. I am not a big fan of 9-ball when gambling unless it is a long race and I KNOW I have the advantage or I just KNOW I am gonna crush someone quick.

RunoutalloverU
01-09-2008, 07:06 PM
Anybody that says 8 ball is a pussy game is retarded. Ive heard that some pros will say that. All I have to ask is...oh how much money did you make on the IPT? That will silence them. My suggestion is practice on the hardest eqipment you can find against yourself (something like 9 foot tables with 4 inch wide pockets). Then save up some money, when the money means less, you can focus on the game and not the money. My suggestion is with anything regarding gambling, if you think about the money once while your playing, your playing for too much. And another good suggestion is play harder games, I like the 8 ball suggestion, but play 8 ball on a tough table in an ahead set format, maybe 5 ahead or something. And 10 ball and rotation. That way as had been mentioned you get your money worth and the better player usually wins. I would suggest getting away from bar tables and leauges they bring your game down thats of course is JMO. And if all that doesnt work, stick to tournaments, but then again you are still playing for money. Some people you squeeze and they get tough, some crumble, although this does not have to be inevitable. I think you can get better at mental and emtional toughness, but just like pool it takes practice.

Pushout
01-09-2008, 08:31 PM
Why the best players are the ones that have gambled for thousands of dollars, because they are battle proven, and you have to have control of yourself and your emotions. Yes, as you go up the ladder, you will get the
'jitters', but once you get past that, you can elevate your game quite a bit.

By all means, play in every tournament you can, that is good too. Ralf Souquet is someone that achieved excellence without gambling, but usually the ones that can withstand the most pressure, whether for money or an important tournament are the ones that have gambled big.

Someone that elevated his game a lot by gambling: Darren Appleton

Even in a tournament, I will usually side with the big money player vs just a tournament player when they play.

Before Buddy Hall turned Pro, and was in the top 5 pro players for over 20 years straight, he was the Best Road Player in the whole country, and gambled big.

Very good post!! I would add that you should remember that gambling and tournament play are two different animals. I played well for money before I ever played well in tournaments. Gambling, bet what you can afford and manage your money. Ignore the people who say to never gamble. You'll find out just how well you really play betting against people who aren't your friends. The history of pool contains a LOT of gambling, cripes, it's like it's the '60s again, with folks who want to "clean up the game". Remember, in the end, money is just another way to keep score.

hang-the-9
01-09-2008, 08:45 PM
Something I am trying that may calm you when gambling, play for very little, at least at first. If you worry about losing it, don't play. I have been playing races to 7 for 10$ and since then I have improved my "choke" shots. Better safety play, better making the 9 or 8, making shot selection based more on success rate rather than flash. Once you are comfortable playing for cheap, try to go up some bucks and see what happens. It's a bit like getting used to cold water, eventually you won't notice it. Play longer races too, it's common knowledge that a longer game favores the better player. Knew a guy who would only play money games race to 3, and he was a good breaker, can make the 9 quite a bit. I once got him on a race to 11, beat him 11 to 4.

This also improved my tourny play, I have been in the finals of the local tourny just about every time I have played, and for sure more than anyone else in the place. And also have gotten to the hotseat undefeated more than anyone else. I did not believe in gambling at first, but I see that a "little" bit adds to the pressure, heck even 5$ may do it, and eventualy can lead to better play overall.

IA8baller
01-09-2008, 09:47 PM
I'm definitely not a big money player since I just don't have the $$$ to do it even if I wanted to, but, when I have played for $$$ it does help me focus that much more, even if it's just $1/game between friends. I've definitely won more $$$ than I've lost by a longshot but I don't play for anything more than about $20 in a race to 3-5 or so.

I had a guy offer to play me races to 3 for $50 several weeks ago and I know the guy well enough to know that his game is strong but I truly believe mine is stronger and I wanted to say yes so badly but I just didn't have any extra $$$ at the time to be able to say yes.:(

gedukas
01-09-2008, 09:47 PM
I personally (having played pool for a little over a year) learned to play better in local tourneys by side betting on myself in tourney matches and playing small 5-20 dollar sets. You do it a couple times and you freak out, but if the money isn't too big, you can look at yourself critically and say, "I'm not going to make the same mistake on that shot," or, "I will think of other options when I get to tough shots." Criticizing yourself will force you to remember what you did wrong, and hopefully it will be stron enough that you don't repeat it.

Gerry
01-10-2008, 05:33 AM
The best advie I EVER heard about gambling is from Grady...

"ALWAYS....over estimate the other guys game while under estimating your own by about a ball and a half."

This will take the pressure off because we all want to play in dead stroke every day, but it doesn't happen that way.

Like Bignasty from TAR said the other nite online....the toughest thing for a player to do is HONESTLY guage his own speed while making a game.

Patrick53212
01-10-2008, 08:41 AM
One of the absolute BEST things I have read or seen is regarding the mental part of your game. This is typically where people fall apart. Certainly knowing the shots, seeing the patterns, and execution are extremely important, the mental aspect is even more important. You really want to develop muscle memory for control and thus practice, practice, practice. Next, this should be damn near automatic. Use the same routine with every single shot, absolutely every single shot. This routine will allow you to go into "auto-pilot" mode when shooting. Think about the layout and pattern. Next, check out the angle and calculate what speed, English etc. that you need. Chalk up, place down the bridge hand, practice stroke and finish. Once you are down on the table you have reached the point of no return. If ANYTHING causes you to lose focus even for a split second, get back up and repeat everything above all over again. Also really focus on keeping your breathing relaxed, in through the nose and out through the mouth. I GUARANTEE that developing a routine like this will improve your focus and mental portion by leaps and bounds. I seriously cannot tell you how much my game has improved by using this. When you do get to where you are playing for money and winning at least as often as you are losing...your tournament play should jump up quite a bit as well. I have seen my game improve within the past six months so much that I was playing as a decent "B" player and now I have AA and Master's players worrying about playing me. I have placed in the money in 6 of the last 7 tournaments. I am actually beginning to win money as opposed to breaking even or losing. The other part of the game that is EXTREMELY important is knowing not only how to play safe, but when to play safe. If I do not feel 95% confident that I can run out, I play safe within the first two shots to get ball in hand. By the way, you can send the check to the following address....

cmsmith9
01-10-2008, 10:28 AM
I am solid B player and I am a terrible gambler for the cash. I've been in action since 2000 playing for small amounts ranging from $10-$300 sets. Sometimes you have to win from the weaker players and lose it to the better players to learn something. I've rarely beat anyone better than me in action, if I have it's been only several. HOWEVER, I am a solid tournament player (local tournaments) and will acredit my successful tournament record to my gambling experience.

If you are going to get into action, have a nice bank roll in relation to how much you are betting. If you're playing $20 sets, have about $100 in your pocket. I know players that only have one barrel in them and it causes them to sweat the set more than if they had 5x that amount in their pocket.

Also, if you're getting into action, get into a lot of it, gambling over and over again will relieve some anxiety and stress. I used to play hours a night, matching up with one player to the next, regardless of how much the sets are.

Christian

Patrick Johnson
01-10-2008, 12:33 PM
Quit gambling altogether,you have little to gain and everything to lose.

If you don't bet too high (and don't get hooked on it), I think you might have lots to gain and little to lose. Competition is largely about overcoming distractions and staying focused - betting is an intensified way to practice doing that. Tournaments are good too, but that's a different kind of pressure/distraction - the more kinds you can handle, the better your overall focusing ability.

pj
chgo