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Peer
01-09-2008, 10:45 PM
Well, as the subject line eludes to, I've never been so close to smashing my cue to pieces from pure frustration.

With some persuasions, yesterday I reluctantly entered a straight pool league. The reason given was that it would improve my 8-ball game. I started playing 6 p.m. and wasn't done until well past 1 a.m. -- the last match lasted 4 hours. Since I have some compulsive tendencies (that also include pool) I can easily play for 12 hours straight without breaking a sweat -- but not straight pool with some sloooooooow playing opponents. I'm too restless.

Besides, all this reminds me of a dreadful period in my childhood when our pool club forced us kids to play 3-cushion "to get better at pool." I wonder if it's just me who have this impatient mindset?

By the way, of course I lost... big time.

-- peer

D-Sub
01-09-2008, 11:56 PM
heh...I know the frustration...but for me it's usually because I miss balls that I wouldn't miss in a different game simply because I feel out of my comfort zone in that game

one question though...four hours? that can't be for a single match, race to a normal number like 75-125? I'm no good (high run 29, ONCE) and can get to 125 in 1.5 max...?

ioCross
01-10-2008, 12:57 AM
one of the most frustrating aspects of straight pool is playing a really good player.

i used to gamble cheap with a local old timer. we'd play 20 dollar 9ball sets until i got to a point where i could beat him fairly regularly. he told me he wouldn't play me 9ball any more but he would play me straights for whatever i wanted.

after several sessions of playing him i decided i couldn't beat him at his game. there's nothing more frustrating than playing a 3 hour game where you sit and watch someone run 2 racks then safe you, and every safe you play on him he doubles right back on you, then when you sell out or misshoot a safe him he runs 2 racks then sticks you again.

JustPlay
01-10-2008, 03:35 AM
One pocket is the most boring. safety after safety after safety. Just look at Souquets DCC one pocket match= 5 hours in a race to 3? You could hear crickets by the time they were done. A few years back, didn't Nick Varner have a 3 hour one game marathon?

At least with straight pool there is a begining and an end. Every pool game has its boring moments, but One hole out of all of them is the King of boring. Though, it is fun to play. Grass grows faster and paint dries faster than most one pocket games comming to a conclusion!

BadKarma
01-10-2008, 06:36 AM
The optimum word here being "watch". Unless somebody interesting is playing, read major pro, one hole puts me to sleep.

Personally I love straight pool, makes me have to think about the next 3 or 4 balls. Right behind that I love snooker, I think most of the grey hair I have is because of snooker, damn game!!! :(

3andstop
01-10-2008, 07:06 AM
Well, I'm one of those who voted 9ball. I suppose if you like something, watching it isn't boring, if you don't like something, then watching it would be.

I like the creative aspects of both straight pool and one pocket. I despise the "play by number" dull robotic thinking that 9 ball offers. To each his own.

BTW, if you added Artistic Pool as a "most boring" option, I'd have voted that as # 1. Now there is something akin to watching domino's fall after you set them up. Of course they fall ... you set them up that way .. :rolleyes: zzzzz

jjr183
01-10-2008, 07:17 AM
If 8-ball is your favorite game, then I am surprised that you do not like 14.1. After all 8-ball is just a rack version of 14.1 with a couple of extra restrictions; only shoot highs or lows and the 8 is the last ball pocketed. Not only do I think that 14.1 will improve your 8-ball game, but it will improve any game you play. I see people fail to runout in 8-ball simply because they do not see the shots that would simplify the rack that are commonplace in 14.1 such as:

Breaking up clusters and knowing exactly which ball you are shooting next whether it is an insurance ball or one of your balls in that cluster. In 14.1 this not having a plan in this situation is asking for trouble. My favorite moments in 8-ball have been when there was a slug rack and there are still 10+ balls in the stack, my opponent just says 'good luck with that' and I run out because I immediately see the secondary break shot and how to hit it so that the balls take their places for the run out.


Working your way back from the 8 to develop a pattern. I see a lot of players taking the easiest shot on the table and then the rest of their shots are difficult, whereas I sometimes shoot the most difficult shot because I see that the position off that ball results in 'connect the dot' position from there. In 14.1 you have to determine your break and key balls as soon as you have simplified the rack.


Shooting balls that allow other balls to go; also called 'freeing up lanes'. In 8-ball this is a part of the decision making process as you need to make your balls shootable while trying to keep your opponent locked up. If you do not do this as soon as possible in 14.1, then you aren't going to be able to put some racks together with regularity.


I could go on, but it's back to work for me.

Maniac
01-10-2008, 08:05 AM
Well, I'm one of those who voted 9ball. I suppose if you like something, watching it isn't boring, if you don't like something, then watching it would be.

I like the creative aspects of both straight pool and one pocket. I despise the "play by number" dull robotic thinking that 9 ball offers. To each his own.

BTW, if you added Artistic Pool as a "most boring" option, I'd have voted that as # 1. Now there is something akin to watching domino's fall after you set them up. Of course they fall ... you set them up that way .. :rolleyes: zzzzz

I kinda go along with these lines of thinking.

Maniac

CocoboloCowboy
01-10-2008, 08:16 AM
I personally love the game of Straight Pool, (aka 14/1). it is a great game builder for other pool games.http://www.geocities.com/cocobolocowboy/broccoli.gif

Wish we had some Straight Pool Tournaments in the SouthWest, but sad we do not.http://www.geocities.com/cocobolocowboy/flyingbrick.gif

Icon of Sin
01-10-2008, 08:26 AM
I like watching them all being played. I don't like playing straight pool at all though. 1 pocket is OK, but I have never been in decent game of it and never had the oppurtunity to learn from players who are great at it.

I like 9ball and 10ball. 8ball is starting to grow on me a little bit, but I dont think I will ever enjoy it as much as 9ball.

TheWizard
01-10-2008, 10:03 AM
If any player is ever looking to become a seriously competitive all round skilled player, then the only 3 games that are REALLY worth playing are Straight Pool, One Pocket and Full Rack Banks :)

To me, 8Ball and 9Ball are boring, because like 3andstop has mentioned, the repeating of playing a game to connect the dots, is as entertaining as a fart in a space suit.

9Ball and 10Ball, are generally the same principle as playing the colors in snooker, being you gotta go in swquence, ecept that 9 & 1-ball have short cuts in them.

8Ball bores me beyond recognition because English 8ball is all I saw being played in public rooms and clubs when I was growing up, which was enough to put me off 8ball for life.

I'll happy enter a straight pool, Bank Pool or One Pocket tournament over 8ball, 9ball or 10ball anyday and I wouldn't give a damn if the the straight pool, etc events had lower prize money than the other events either :)

Willie

okinawa77
01-10-2008, 12:45 PM
If 8-ball is your favorite game, then I am surprised that you do not like 14.1. After all 8-ball is just a rack version of 14.1 with a couple of extra restrictions; only shoot highs or lows and the 8 is the last ball pocketed. Not only do I think that 14.1 will improve your 8-ball game, but it will improve any game you play. I see people fail to runout in 8-ball simply because they do not see the shots that would simplify the rack that are commonplace in 14.1 such as:

Breaking up clusters and knowing exactly which ball you are shooting next whether it is an insurance ball or one of your balls in that cluster. In 14.1 this not having a plan in this situation is asking for trouble. My favorite moments in 8-ball have been when there was a slug rack and there are still 10+ balls in the stack, my opponent just says 'good luck with that' and I run out because I immediately see the secondary break shot and how to hit it so that the balls take their places for the run out.


Working your way back from the 8 to develop a pattern. I see a lot of players taking the easiest shot on the table and then the rest of their shots are difficult, whereas I sometimes shoot the most difficult shot because I see that the position off that ball results in 'connect the dot' position from there. In 14.1 you have to determine your break and key balls as soon as you have simplified the rack.


Shooting balls that allow other balls to go; also called 'freeing up lanes'. In 8-ball this is a part of the decision making process as you need to make your balls shootable while trying to keep your opponent locked up. If you do not do this as soon as possible in 14.1, then you aren't going to be able to put some racks together with regularity.


I could go on, but it's back to work for me.

Right On, Dude! When I am playing 8 ball against a Break and Run player, I employ an 8 ball break that usually causes a horrible cluster of balls on the long rail. 9 times out of 10, my opponent can't run it out because they don't play straight pool. So, they don't know how to break out the clustered balls.

I think your second and third point should be combined. I shoot at the most difficult balls with the intent to free up all my balls and leave him hooked.

Most players think that B&R is the way to go, but I have found that playing good safeties does 2 things......it get's your opponent out of stroke/frustrated, and you win games.

poolplayer2093
01-10-2008, 03:30 PM
Well, as the subject line eludes to, I've never been so close to smashing my cue to pieces from pure frustration.

With some persuasions, yesterday I reluctantly entered a straight pool league. The reason given was that it would improve my 8-ball game. I started playing 6 p.m. and wasn't done until well past 1 a.m. -- the last match lasted 4 hours. Since I have some compulsive tendencies (that also include pool) I can easily play for 12 hours straight without breaking a sweat -- but not straight pool with some sloooooooow playing opponents. I'm too restless.

Besides, all this reminds me of a dreadful period in my childhood when our pool club forced us kids to play 3-cushion "to get better at pool." I wonder if it's just me who have this impatient mindset?

By the way, of course I lost... big time.

-- peer


You had a pool club when you grew up? i love playing straight pool but i hate playing slow players

DJKeys
01-10-2008, 03:45 PM
One pocket is the most boring. safety after safety after safety. Just look at Souquets DCC one pocket match= 5 hours in a race to 3? You could hear crickets by the time they were done. A few years back, didn't Nick Varner have a 3 hour one game marathon?

At least with straight pool there is a begining and an end. Every pool game has its boring moments, but One hole out of all of them is the King of boring. Though, it is fun to play. Grass grows faster and paint dries faster than most one pocket games comming to a conclusion!

I couldn't agree more.

suckershot
01-10-2008, 05:53 PM
If 8-ball is your favorite game, then I am surprised that you do not like 14.1. After all 8-ball is just a rack version of 14.1 with a couple of extra restrictions; only shoot highs or lows and the 8 is the last ball pocketed. Not only do I think that 14.1 will improve your 8-ball game, but it will improve any game you play. I see people fail to runout in 8-ball simply because they do not see the shots that would simplify the rack that are commonplace in 14.1 such as:

Breaking up clusters and knowing exactly which ball you are shooting next whether it is an insurance ball or one of your balls in that cluster. In 14.1 this not having a plan in this situation is asking for trouble. My favorite moments in 8-ball have been when there was a slug rack and there are still 10+ balls in the stack, my opponent just says 'good luck with that' and I run out because I immediately see the secondary break shot and how to hit it so that the balls take their places for the run out.


Working your way back from the 8 to develop a pattern. I see a lot of players taking the easiest shot on the table and then the rest of their shots are difficult, whereas I sometimes shoot the most difficult shot because I see that the position off that ball results in 'connect the dot' position from there. In 14.1 you have to determine your break and key balls as soon as you have simplified the rack.


Shooting balls that allow other balls to go; also called 'freeing up lanes'. In 8-ball this is a part of the decision making process as you need to make your balls shootable while trying to keep your opponent locked up. If you do not do this as soon as possible in 14.1, then you aren't going to be able to put some racks together with regularity.


I could go on, but it's back to work for me.

This makes perfect sense to me.

I try to play lots of different games, in order to get the full knowledge from playing pool. I used to not like one pocket or straight pool at all, and while I'm still not very good at either (or 8 or 9 for that matter), I do enjoy them now and realize the benefits of exposing yourself to as many different games as possible.

I do sometimes wonder why people would refuse to play a game that will make them better, even if it's just practicing that game. But then again, we all have things we don't like, and I hate drills. Refuse to do them. Some people I know can do them all day.

It's ultimately a matter of personal preference, I suppose.

okinawa77
01-10-2008, 06:10 PM
One pocket is the most boring. safety after safety after safety. Just look at Souquets DCC one pocket match= 5 hours in a race to 3? You could hear crickets by the time they were done. A few years back, didn't Nick Varner have a 3 hour one game marathon?

At least with straight pool there is a begining and an end. Every pool game has its boring moments, but One hole out of all of them is the King of boring. Though, it is fun to play. Grass grows faster and paint dries faster than most one pocket games comming to a conclusion!

I think it all depends on how you play the game. I play with some old fart which you would expect he'd take forever to shoot, but he likes to play the game fast because who the hell wants to watch a guy staring at the table, trying to decide his next shot. And it's not all safeties. There are also a lot of 2 way shots and bait shots. And the occasional break and run. It think 1P is similiar to straight pool, and I like straight pool.

CocoboloCowboy
01-10-2008, 06:49 PM
Whitout Straight Pool there would have been no Hustler movie.http://www.geocities.com/cocobolocowboy/lollol.gif

edman
01-10-2008, 10:18 PM
Straight pool is the stuff. I have more enjoyment playing that over 8/9-ball do the detail and the thinking involved. Yes when I do play something else such as 8-ball my game has improved because I can see the patterns and the shots to clear jammed up balls. Plus playing safe is a whole lot easier after playing straight pool :)

Peer
01-10-2008, 11:36 PM
You had a pool club when you grew up?


Sure, I was a member of this militant billiards club that not only forced us kids to practice 3-cushion, snooker, and straight pool but also rented a gym every Friday night for the obligatory workout -- the idea was to get us in shape for the long tournaments. It was so fierce that many of us just lost that fun factor of playing, and gave up -- including myself. But my buddy somehow stuck with it, and last year he won the national team championship. So I guess our instructors knew what they were doing...

-- peer

predator
01-11-2008, 02:58 AM
I voted 8ball. For some reason it just doesn't excite me as much as other pool games.
14.1 is my favourite because it really shows the (lack of) skills and creativity.
Little tired of 9ball cause I play it most of the time, but still love the challenging shots.
I know next to nothing about One Pocket, but from what I've seen you really need to understand it and be much more than a good shotmaker to play it well. What I like about it is that it heavily favours the better player, just like straight pool.

3andstop
01-11-2008, 06:33 AM
I'm very surprised to see 9 ball running even in the poll with straight pool.

Straight pool has been my favorite game for well over 35 of the 45+ yrs I've been playing. One pocket is a very very close second, if not dead even.

If you enjoy creativity, freedom of making a large variety of choices that will impact the game very differently, and the challenge of thinking your way through various positions, you need to try these two games.

On the other hand if you simply can't wait to get up and fire balls into pockets, have the table layout make your decisions for you (yeah, yeah, I know there are a few ways to play each shot) then 9 ball is more for you.

Everyone is different, and I believe as we get a little older, wiser, and calmer, we migrate toward these creative games in favor of the quick and dirty shoot em up games.

I believe the younger players who really take the game seriously, will eventually experience and enjoy straight pool and one hole more.

Sh#$%, with that music they blare while playing, I suppose it's lucky they don't stand on the table and try kicking ball into pockets on adjoining tables. Time fixes these things ... :)

catscradle
01-11-2008, 06:48 AM
...BTW, if you added Artistic Pool as a "most boring" option, I'd have voted that as # 1. Now there is something akin to watching domino's fall after you set them up. Of course they fall ... you set them up that way .. :rolleyes: zzzzz

Amen brother, can't stand trick shot stuff. Some of the power stroke stuff is interesting, but those setup shots are beyond boring.

Blackjack
01-11-2008, 07:27 AM
Blackjack's Heel Turn

:mad:

What I can't stand is people complaining about how difficult or boring straight pool and one pocket are. What you're really saying is that you don't have the skill to play these games nor do you have the heart, determination, or patience to learn.


If you think games like 14.1 and one pocket are boring, then you lack respect for the complexity of those games and the knowledge required to play them competently. Dismissing these games as "boring" is a weak excuse to remain complacent with your game. It's laziness and fear hiding behind the veil of your ego.

IMO, REAL POOL PLAYERS will learn how to master these games while the weak and lazy players make excuses and avoid them in exchange for remaining in their comfort zone.

If you can't handle me telling you any of this, tuff sh**. It's the truth.

I'm tired of logging in here to read all these posts about how easy straight pool is, or how anybody can run a hundred balls with a little bit of practice. If that's the case, if you see me out there on the tournament trail, pull me aside and do it. If you do it, I'll give you a dollar a ball. If you can't do it, I get a dollar for every ball you fall short.

One pocket is NOT boring. It is by far the most beautiful game in pool if you understand how to play and what to do offensively and defensively. I can spend hours examining different situations, lock-ups, safeties, break strategies, etc.

Personally, I love 1 pocket and so should anybody that says they love the game of pool. One pocket is the ultimate test in strategy, control, shotmaking, and precision safety play. The game holds a treasure chest full of knowledge, you just have to have the balls to dig into the treasure chest and find those gems.

Players that have heart and determination will keep learning no matter what happens along the way. They won't allow anything to prevent them mastering all the games. The lazy players will stick with what is easiest for them, and they rob themselves of the priceless knowledge that is hidden deep inside these games. In the long haul, this is good for me and everybody else that wastes their time playing these boring games. :rolleyes:

Have a little heart and go out there attack the balls that way you grow some balls. Quit whining and complaining about how difficult or boring something is and go out there and learn about the skill required to compete at these games.

No game is boring - all games teach you something. I don't care if its artistic pool, 8 ball, 9 ball, 14.1, 1-hole, or banks. All these games require specific skills that will eventually assist you in becoming a better all around player.

Like I said earlier, the real players are up for the challenge. The others will sit back and make excuses. I know which category I fit into.

catscradle
01-11-2008, 07:35 AM
Blackjack's Heel Turn

:mad:

What I can't stand is people complaining about how difficult or boring straight pool and one pocket are. What you're really saying is that you don't have the skill to play these games nor do you have the heart, determination, or patience to learn.
...

I think what most of are saying is that they can be boring to watch. I generally find pool boring to watch even though I love to play it. Let's face it, it's not really a spectator sport, too much dead time.

Blackjack
01-11-2008, 07:52 AM
I think what most of are saying is that they can be boring to watch. I generally find pool boring to watch even though I love to play it. Let's face it, it's not really a spectator sport, too much dead time.

As a student of the game, I'm not there to be entertained, I am watching to gather knowledge from what I am seeing so that I apply it in the future. If I want entertainment I'll find it elsewhere. IMO, "boring" is just a replacement word for "no interest in learning from what you're watching".

I believe that boredom is an enemy to every pool player.

You can defeat boredom by adjusting your attitude. If you have an attitude geared towards collecting as much knowledge as possible, boredom has a hell of time finding its way into your head.

3andstop
01-11-2008, 08:18 AM
Dismissing these games as "boring" is a weak excuse to remain complacent with your game. It's laziness and fear hiding behind the veil of your ego.




As a student of the game, I'm not there to be entertained, I am watching to gather knowledge from what I am seeing so that I apply it in the future.



In my crude sort of way I was hinting at these thoughts. :) No one is gonna say it more clearly than that however. :)

9 ball is a sort of waste of a perfectly good pool table's ability to provide a field of play for some very wonderfully complex games of pocket billiards.

Sort of like how a chess board's ability to provide a field of play for the complex game of chess is wasted on checkers.

( I excluded 8 ball from that statement since I do believe it is perfectly fine for beginners and in fact offers more decision making IMO than 9 ball.)

catscradle
01-11-2008, 08:59 AM
As a student of the game, I'm not there to be entertained, I am watching to gather knowledge from what I am seeing so that I apply it in the future. If I want entertainment I'll find it elsewhere. IMO, "boring" is just a replacement word for "no interest in learning from what you're watching".

I believe that boredom is an enemy to every pool player.

You can defeat boredom by adjusting your attitude. If you have an attitude geared towards collecting as much knowledge as possible, boredom has a hell of time finding its way into your head.

Oh, I do "study" tapes, dvds, etc., but that doesn't change the fact that it is boring to watch for the most part. I studied a lot of things in my left to expand my knowledge, and pool was not the only one that was boring to watch/study.
I do drills every weekend to improve my game hopefully, they're boring too.

suckershot
01-11-2008, 11:41 AM
Blackjack's Heel Turn

:mad:

What I can't stand is people complaining about how difficult or boring straight pool and one pocket are. What you're really saying is that you don't have the skill to play these games nor do you have the heart, determination, or patience to learn.


If you think games like 14.1 and one pocket are boring, then you lack respect for the complexity of those games and the knowledge required to play them competently. Dismissing these games as "boring" is a weak excuse to remain complacent with your game. It's laziness and fear hiding behind the veil of your ego.

IMO, REAL POOL PLAYERS will learn how to master these games while the weak and lazy players make excuses and avoid them in exchange for remaining in their comfort zone.

If you can't handle me telling you any of this, tuff sh**. It's the truth.

I'm tired of logging in here to read all these posts about how easy straight pool is, or how anybody can run a hundred balls with a little bit of practice. If that's the case, if you see me out there on the tournament trail, pull me aside and do it. If you do it, I'll give you a dollar a ball. If you can't do it, I get a dollar for every ball you fall short.

One pocket is NOT boring. It is by far the most beautiful game in pool if you understand how to play and what to do offensively and defensively. I can spend hours examining different situations, lock-ups, safeties, break strategies, etc.

Personally, I love 1 pocket and so should anybody that says they love the game of pool. One pocket is the ultimate test in strategy, control, shotmaking, and precision safety play. The game holds a treasure chest full of knowledge, you just have to have the balls to dig into the treasure chest and find those gems.

Players that have heart and determination will keep learning no matter what happens along the way. They won't allow anything to prevent them mastering all the games. The lazy players will stick with what is easiest for them, and they rob themselves of the priceless knowledge that is hidden deep inside these games. In the long haul, this is good for me and everybody else that wastes their time playing these boring games. :rolleyes:

Have a little heart and go out there attack the balls that way you grow some balls. Quit whining and complaining about how difficult or boring something is and go out there and learn about the skill required to compete at these games.

No game is boring - all games teach you something. I don't care if its artistic pool, 8 ball, 9 ball, 14.1, 1-hole, or banks. All these games require specific skills that will eventually assist you in becoming a better all around player.

Like I said earlier, the real players are up for the challenge. The others will sit back and make excuses. I know which category I fit into.

And what a heel turn it was! You sir are a bad man! You sure don't mince words.

In my area, the places I play at are largely occupied by APA players, who absolutely love their 8 and 9-ball. Ask them to play anything else, and they say no way. I'm not saying they are all this way...but a lot of them are. I'm also not knocking APA players, as I used to be one myself until fairly recently.

But I've always wondered why so many of these types ask themselves why they don't ever seem to see any real progress or improvement in their game. These are the same people that will only ever play 8 or 9. I tell whoever will listen that playing other games will teach you so much, especially 14.1.

Look, I am no fantastic player by any means. But I really feel like a little variety is entertaining. And it's knowledge value is immeasurable. Of course, I realize that everyone's devotion to pool and getting better is different. I admit I fall somewhere in the middle as well. But there is so much to be learned from all the different games, folks.

oncue4u
01-11-2008, 12:30 PM
Personally I favor 14.1 over the other games. I also enjoy playing one pocket, 9 ball, 8 ball, and 3 cushion with other "interesting players".
My skill level is fairly high at all of the games I play. Have learned to use certain shots and knowledge from all games to incorporate in each specific game.

14.1 for position play, ball pocketing sequence, focus and stamina.
3 cushion for position play using mutiple rails or by changing carom angles off the rails.
9 ball for improving my shot making skills, long, draw, thin cuts or whatever.
one pocket for position play in very tight areas, breaking clusters (the right way), and of course in executing great defensive shots when needed.
8 ball where all of the above combined knowledge can come in handy

If and when you become a pool "purist" you will strive to learn as much as you can from all games. If you dont you will probably gravitate towards yourr favorite game since it suits the strong parts of your overall game.
I enjoy playing all games and do not have a problem switching from one type of game to another at will.

The games/matches I enjoy watching are when 2 players with different styles play. eg. top one pocket player vrs top nine ball player, top snooker player vrs top 8 ball player. I love to see the differences in styles as they try to find a way to win. One defensive player trying to defeat another who does not play defense.

I guess boring would be two 14.1 players who cant run more than 5 balls play each other to 150 points.

Just my .02

suckershot
01-11-2008, 01:18 PM
I guess boring would be two 14.1 players who cant run more than 5 balls play each other to 150 points.

Just my .02

Exactly why I don't play to 150 pts. :D :D :D

Cuebacca
01-11-2008, 03:19 PM
It sounds like the problem is slow players, not the game itself. I wish my area had a straight pool league, but if the players took an unreasonable amount of time pondering their shots, I might get frustrated too. Is there someone who runs the league that could help remedy the problem? I don't play enough straight pool to know, but 4 hours to get to 150 seems pretty ridiculous to me.

By the way, I voted for American Idol. I don't really like to watch it, but I think it's a funny choice, and I have never gotten bored of any of the games listed. :)

AZE
01-11-2008, 03:29 PM
If 1Pocket and Straight pool bore you, then you're just not smart enough to be entertained by them. :)

TheWizard
01-11-2008, 04:52 PM
Blackjack's Heel Turn

:mad:

What I can't stand is people complaining about how difficult or boring straight pool and one pocket are. What you're really saying is that you don't have the skill to play these games nor do you have the heart, determination, or patience to learn.


If you think games like 14.1 and one pocket are boring, then you lack respect for the complexity of those games and the knowledge required to play them competently. Dismissing these games as "boring" is a weak excuse to remain complacent with your game. It's laziness and fear hiding behind the veil of your ego.

IMO, REAL POOL PLAYERS will learn how to master these games while the weak and lazy players make excuses and avoid them in exchange for remaining in their comfort zone.

If you can't handle me telling you any of this, tuff sh**. It's the truth.

I'm tired of logging in here to read all these posts about how easy straight pool is, or how anybody can run a hundred balls with a little bit of practice. If that's the case, if you see me out there on the tournament trail, pull me aside and do it. If you do it, I'll give you a dollar a ball. If you can't do it, I get a dollar for every ball you fall short.

One pocket is NOT boring. It is by far the most beautiful game in pool if you understand how to play and what to do offensively and defensively. I can spend hours examining different situations, lock-ups, safeties, break strategies, etc.

Personally, I love 1 pocket and so should anybody that says they love the game of pool. One pocket is the ultimate test in strategy, control, shotmaking, and precision safety play. The game holds a treasure chest full of knowledge, you just have to have the balls to dig into the treasure chest and find those gems.

Players that have heart and determination will keep learning no matter what happens along the way. They won't allow anything to prevent them mastering all the games. The lazy players will stick with what is easiest for them, and they rob themselves of the priceless knowledge that is hidden deep inside these games. In the long haul, this is good for me and everybody else that wastes their time playing these boring games. :rolleyes:

Have a little heart and go out there attack the balls that way you grow some balls. Quit whining and complaining about how difficult or boring something is and go out there and learn about the skill required to compete at these games.

No game is boring - all games teach you something. I don't care if its artistic pool, 8 ball, 9 ball, 14.1, 1-hole, or banks. All these games require specific skills that will eventually assist you in becoming a better all around player.

Like I said earlier, the real players are up for the challenge. The others will sit back and make excuses. I know which category I fit into.

TAP TAP TAP

Willie

Pushout
01-11-2008, 05:46 PM
David, I thought I was a hard ass;)

CocoboloCowboy
01-11-2008, 05:58 PM
I am surprised Peer would use the "H" word, HATE http://www.geocities.com/cocobolocowboy/rant.gif . As it is such a strong word, and not P.C. for a Stanford person.http://www.geocities.com/cocobolocowboy/lollol.gif

Peer
01-12-2008, 05:02 AM
CocoboloCowboy wrote:
> Whitout Straight Pool there would have been no Hustler movie

Okay, that would be the only reason to support Straight Pool -- that movie (and you should get the DVD with the extra stuff) is a master piece.


Blackjack wrote:
> REAL POOL PLAYERS will learn how to master these games
> while the weak and lazy players make excuses and avoid them

Yea, I know -- I'm not just lazy, but I'm also a bad person.


My hero Eric Harada wrote:
> I guess boring would be two 14.1 players who cant run
> more than 5 balls play each other to 150 points.

Guess you are still pissed that I ran five games on you in 8-ball..?!


Anyways, love, peace and understanding -- to ALL of you!

-- peer

DarkArtist
01-28-2008, 10:58 AM
I usually play 14.1 alone and when people invite me to play 9-ball it's always a challenge for me to adjust because the most common scenarios in each game are different.

However, recently a local asked if I'd like to play 8-ball - a game I haven't played in a long time - and was shocked that I didn't have to switch heads to adapt. Besides the eight ball, I found the planning, the nudging of balls into favorable positions, hooking and overall patterns to be similar to 14.1.

I can completely understand why people would find 14.1 boring when playing someone. But by the same token, I find solo 9-ball boring, whereas playing 14.1 alone I find it easier to constantly compete against myself and problem solve.

Just a personal preference I suppose.:o

fan-tum
01-28-2008, 11:37 AM
Even though 14.1 is a good game for me, I still think it's the most stressful of all games. There's always that lingering thought in your head that you're going to get a bad roll after the balls are scattered and your opponent runs 200 balls. One-pocket is fairly relaxed because a lot of the shots are non-critical, and 9-ball should be stressful, but not to me. You can do a lot of ducking and just make one ball to win.

jpalmer
01-28-2008, 02:00 PM
Peer, you need game

Peer
01-28-2008, 11:24 PM
However, recently a local asked if I'd like to play 8-ball - a game I haven't played in a long time - and was shocked that I didn't have to switch heads to adapt.


I have to disagree -- 8-ball tactics are quite different than 14.1. For example, in 8-ball you can use your own balls to block pockets, while in 14.1 this would be a futile move. Also the safeties are different in 8-ball since there are more opportunities to block in your opponent balls.

Anyways, now I kind of regret that I started this thread since the lads at the hall seem to have teamed up against me to force me to play straight pool -- this happened also today, as I again was persuaded (read; forced) to play this boooring game.

-- peer

DarkArtist
01-29-2008, 08:07 AM
I have to disagree -- 8-ball tactics are quite different than 14.1. For example, in 8-ball you can use your own balls to block pockets, while in 14.1 this would be a futile move. Also the safeties are different in 8-ball since there are more opportunities to block in your opponent balls.

Anyways, now I kind of regret that I started this thread since the lads at the hall seem to have teamed up against me to force me to play straight pool -- this happened also today, as I again was persuaded (read; forced) to play this boooring game.

-- peer

Yeah, I see your point regarding actual tactics.

But for some reason I was able to gauge when to block my opponents pocket, or pretend to miss when I was actually trying to maneuver my balls into a better position while messing up his opportunities for a run out. Maybe the tactics aren't exactly the same, but I still found it a natural adjustment for me, unlike when playing 9-ball.

Maybe I should start playing one pocket too.:o

Peer
01-29-2008, 06:22 PM
Maybe I should start playing one pocket too.


Actually, if I had to choose between 14.1 and one pocket, I think I'd prefer one pocket... although that game is kind of boring too.

-- peer

Muffer
01-30-2008, 12:27 AM
When I cant run more than 15 balls, I hate straight pool too.. But when I started to pocket 40-50 balls I became interested in straight pool..

Peer
01-30-2008, 08:11 AM
When I cant run more than 15 balls, I hate straight pool too.. But when I started to pocket 40-50 balls I became interested in straight pool..


Isn't that the same for any game? I mean, if you regularly ran 5 racks in 9-ball, wouldn't you also be "interested" in that game..?

The problem I have with 14.1 (among many) is this tightrope feel I get playing that game -- i.e., the more balls I pocket, the more nervous I get. Also, the 14.1 safety play most often snooze me off.

-- peer

lfigueroa
01-30-2008, 08:24 AM
Actually, if I had to choose between 14.1 and one pocket, I think I'd prefer one pocket... although that game is kind of boring too.

-- peer

Boring?! But then why is it the game more experienced players prefer?

IMO, it's because 1pocket is the game richest in strategy, offers the most opportunities to play a wide variety of offensive and defensive shots (caroms, multiple rail banks, kicks, combinations, extreme cuts, and exotic position play), and rewards the player with the greater knowledge and repertoire of those shots.

And, regardless of who you're playing, you'll be playing too. Unlike 14.1, or even 9ball, you won't be spending extended periods in the chair while your opponent runs rack after rack. And unlike 9ball, there's no road map, and though there's still an element of luck, it seems much less a factor in 1pocket than in 9ball.

And here's the reason it's the perfect hustler's game: your opponent never ever thinks you've beaten them -- they always leave the table thinking that they beat themselves. They missed the shot (and sold out); misplayed a safety (and sold out); hit a bank too hard (and sold out); let the cue ball creep out a bit too far (and sold out). Well you get my point. What they don't get is how difficult some of those simple looking safeties are to execute; the quality of the trap they were put in that forced the error in the first place; how they were repeatedly trapped (frozen to the back of a ball or the stack, with a ball in the jaws of their opponent's pocket); and how, without fail, their opponent punishes them for their mistakes. What it boils down to is that any opponent that doesn't come to the table with the full compliment of shots in their bag of tricks is pretty much doomed from the start against an experienced player. You can't just know some of the shots -- you have to know them all. The player that knows the most shots best wins.

And then, all you have to do is get eight lousy balls to win. Probably all of us have watched some good straight pool at one time or another, and know how easy a good player can make running balls look. It's no different at 1pocket. A good player can make running a few balls look incredibly easy. The fact that he's playing pinpoint position to one pocket is all too easy to overlook.

Given all this, the hustler, or better player, doesn't ever have to look like a champion to win. Just an innocent looking little bunt shot at the right time can win the game. Running four balls and then playing a strong safety can put the game out of the reach of your opponent. Knowing a simple looking shot, like a rail first takeout, can frustrate them over and over.

I think, just like the ball running and the deceptively simple looking safeties, it's difficult for the majority of players to appreciate the depth of skill they might be witnessing. Just one other example: the experienced 1pocket player isn't just flinging those bank shots towards his pocket. They're being played with a degree of precision that most players can't begin to imagine. That's why the lucky bastard always seems to make bank shot after bank shot, or the ball jaws, or always seems to remain within inches of the pocket. And somehow, the cue ball is always at the other end of the table... Before moving to the Midwest, I had never played 1pocket, just 9ball and straight pool, (with a four year hiatus of bar table 8ball up in Montana). I soon found out that 1pocket is all anyone would gamble at around here. So, I decided I'd learn.

I hated it. Couldn't stand it. Loathed it. All the bumping, nipping and tucking. Sometimes for what seemed like an eternity. Shot after shot after shot. And here's the worst part: I was losing to white haired old men with cheap jewelry. Fat old good ol' boys that couldn't carry on an intelligent conversation to save their lives. Even young kids half my age were taking me off.

And, the game would get me out of stroke. All the shots at pocket speed - laying up balls. Twisting and spinning balls. And the brutal realization that I never knew what the *right* shot was. And then, the even more brutal realization that even if I recognized the right shot, years of 14.1 and 9ball hadn't prepared me for so many of the shots I needed to be able to execute at 1pocket. These guys were giving me 10-7, feeding me a lie that I actually believed: "I can only give you a couple of balls 'cause you shoot so straight" and robbing me.

For months I would play, and lose, and curse the game. But then, I started to learn the shots. I would watch Accu-Stats tapes, and began recognizing the *right* shots, the correct strategy. I started to win. The spots became smaller. "I still hate this game."

But then, more and more of them had to play me even. "Hmmmmm. Maybe this game isn't so bad."

Soon thereafter, I had to start giving up weight to get a game. "Hey, I like this game."

Then the ultimate: the guy who had started out giving me 10-7, refused to play when I offered him 11-7.

I really like this game now :-)

Sooo, what's probably spoiling your true enjoyment of 1pocket is not yet having the precision to fully take advantage of your defensive opportunities. It's something every single player who takes on the task of learning 1pocket goes through.

Over time, it does not become just a matter leaving the cue ball safe. It's: leaving it safe frozen to a rail; safe frozen to a ball that leaves nothing but a sellout; a safe with a free shot at your pocket thrown in; a safe that clears out your opponent's side; a safe that moves one, two, or three balls to your side; a safe that blocks your opponent's banking lane; a safe that kicks a ball towards your hole. Well, once again, you get it. Often times, playing a beautiful safe can win you a game more easily that pocketing a difficult shot. But your game must be of sufficient maturity to not only see the opportunity -- you must then be able to execute. Most of the shots that will completely put your opponent "in jail" require very precise cue ball speed and placement. And, properly executing these shots is every bit as satisfying as pocketing a ball.

You'll know you've arrived when you pass up a relatively easy shot, to instead freeze your opponent to the back of a ball and makes the likelihood of them selling out a high probability. There's nothing boring about manufacturing game winning shots that bring your opponent to their knees :-)

Lou Figueroa