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View Full Version : Warm-up stroke routine, cueing low


Derek
01-13-2008, 12:26 AM
So what's the purpose of it? I see some pros warm-up stroke with the cue tip aimed low, pretty much on the cloth, and then raise their tip on the follow-through stroke for where they plan on hitting the cue. For me, I have to line up the tip for where I want to hit the cue ball on my practice strokes before I pull the trigger, and I think the majority of players do this.

I read somewhere that pros can see the reflection of the tip in the cue and it tells them if they are on center. I agree that you can see the reflection, but it's small enough that I don't see this really helping with whether you are centered or not.

Or is this just a comfort thing for some people or a trend that some idol started (Pinoys)?

selftaut
01-13-2008, 12:32 AM
IMO The purpose is aiming with the eyes and not the cue stick. Finding virtical axis is easier with the cue out of the way.

poolrod
01-13-2008, 05:37 AM
Most players never look at the cueball after they approach it. All they look at is the sweet spot on the object ball. You have to trust your stroke to play this way. The reflection and also aiming low tells you that you are centered and your game is in check.

Billy_Bob
01-13-2008, 06:33 AM
I just tried this and noticed that as I stroke back and forth while aiming low on the ball, there is a very thin vertical reflection on the cue ball which tends to "blink on and off" while I stroke back and forth.

I can look at the object ball and also see that blinking at the same time. I can line up that blinking with the object ball.

Now there is a difficult cut shot I practice for warm-up where I need to aim about 1/8 inch to the side of the object ball. I have a radial laminated shaft which has lines in it. I rotate my cue so one of these lines is on top center, then use this line to aim for that shot. I have trouble doing this with a regular cue without lines (solid wood).

I noticed that I can aim in a similar manner by aiming low on the cue ball and stroking back and forth. Then look at the object ball and line up the "blinking" reflection on the cue ball as I stroke back and forth.

So perhaps this could be used for very accurate aiming?

Also I see a lot of inexperienced players miss shots because they are not hitting the cue ball in the center. Especially kick shots. They may aim correctly for the kick shot angle, but the cue ball does not come off the rail at a natural angle because they have hit the cue ball on the left or right side.

I notice if I aim low on the cue ball and move my tip left/right, I can easily see the reflection on the cue ball and easily find dead center.

So maybe this could be used to accurately find the exact center of the cue ball?

Another way to find the CB center is to aim at the bottom of the ball where it is touching the cloth.

Note: Some old cue balls will have a dull finish. I would imagine that you would not be able to see any reflection with these balls...

daniel
01-13-2008, 06:37 AM
Bert Kinister has a DVD on this exact topic. I think its something like secrets of the stroke.

pooltchr
01-13-2008, 07:38 AM
One of the easiest ways to determine the vertical centerline of the cue ball is to look at the point where the cue ball is actually touching the surface of the table. This may be the reason some players line up low on the cue ball.
Steve

TX Poolnut
01-13-2008, 07:47 AM
I do this all the time. The reason I do it (I can only speak for myself) is that it helps me keep the cue still while I'm setting up my aim. This helps especially when you have to reach for your bridge hand.

Derek
01-13-2008, 09:17 AM
One of the easiest ways to determine the vertical centerline of the cue ball is to look at the point where the cue ball is actually touching the surface of the table. This may be the reason some players line up low on the cue ball.
Steve

I think that makes sense to me now. Thanks.

tpdtom
01-13-2008, 09:58 AM
We need a Master Instructor to weigh in on this, but I had to chime in too. IMHO, cueing at the bottom of the ball DOES allow you to find the vertical axis, but if you are of anywhere near average talent, it's not something that you want to cultivate on every shot. The goal is to develop a repeatable stroke. There are many steps in the set part of the set, pause, and finish, and one of them involves shifting your eyes from the cue ball to the object ball. After you determine that your tip is going to the correct place on the cue ball, you focus on the object ball. I think that most players recheck the position on the cue ball, and shift to the object ball for the finish. Some players seem to be capable of changing the tip from the surface of the table, ie: at the bottom of the cueball, to the spot where they intend to strike (for ex: high inside english) on their final stroke, but that method just complicates your methodology. Not a good idea IMHO.

Let's hear Randy or Scott Lee or the like on this subject...Tom

Cuaba
01-13-2008, 10:24 AM
They are adjusting for the tip elevation that will occur from dropping their elbow on the actual shot. It is actually a way to adjust to a bad habit. Ideally, the tip should contact the same point on the cue ball during practice strokes and the final shot.

pooltchr
01-13-2008, 10:41 AM
We need a Master Instructor to weigh in on this, but I had to chime in too. IMHO, cueing at the bottom of the ball DOES allow you to find the vertical axis, but if you are of anywhere near average talent, it's not something that you want to cultivate on every shot. The goal is to develop a repeatable stroke. There are many steps in the set part of the set, pause, and finish, and one of them involves shifting your eyes from the cue ball to the object ball. After you determine that your tip is going to the correct place on the cue ball, you focus on the object ball. I think that most players recheck the position on the cue ball, and shift to the object ball for the finish. Some players seem to be capable of changing the tip from the surface of the table, ie: at the bottom of the cueball, to the spot where they intend to strike (for ex: high inside english) on their final stroke, but that method just complicates your methodology. Not a good idea IMHO.

Let's hear Randy or Scott Lee or the like on this subject...Tom

You are correct. The poster asked why some players do it, and I offered a possible explanation. What you stated is what we teach in pool school...set to the exact contact point on the cue ball. This is the preferred option for most players. I am not about to tell anyone playing at the pro level that they are wrong...but I wouldn't advise any of my students to change tip position on the final stroke.
Steve

Derek
01-13-2008, 12:49 PM
You are correct. The poster asked why some players do it, and I offered a possible explanation. What you stated is what we teach in pool school...set to the exact contact point on the cue ball. This is the preferred option for most players. I am not about to tell anyone playing at the pro level that they are wrong...but I wouldn't advise any of my students to change tip position on the final stroke.
Steve

Seems reasonable. I tinker around with it occasionally, but have not noticed any reasonable advantage to it. Sidenote, no issues here focusing on the object ball in the final stroke.

I was at a tournament yesterday, watching one fellow -- good shooter -- perform this function. He's not one to miscue often, so it must work for him. I'm guessing that he is emulating some idol, but maybe someone taught that to him awhile back.

AspiringPlayer
01-13-2008, 03:02 PM
Hello,
I am pretty much an average/novice player at best, but didnt I read awhile back that an instructor said on your warm up strokes you should get the cue tip as close as you can to the cue ball, at the exact point where you want to strike it? That this would aim in your accuracy?

Carl

M HOUSE
01-13-2008, 04:45 PM
So what's the purpose of it? I see some pros warm-up stroke with the cue tip aimed low, pretty much on the cloth, and then raise their tip on the follow-through stroke for where they plan on hitting the cue. For me, I have to line up the tip for where I want to hit the cue ball on my practice strokes before I pull the trigger, and I think the majority of players do this.

I read somewhere that pros can see the reflection of the tip in the cue and it tells them if they are on center. I agree that you can see the reflection, but it's small enough that I don't see this really helping with whether you are centered or not.

Or is this just a comfort thing for some people or a trend that some idol started (Pinoys)?
I had a chance to ask Efren this question back in the eighties. He told me that he didn't like having the cue "in the way" when he was lineing up the shot. There may well be more to it, but that was the answer from the greatest "low-aimer" of all time.

av84fun
01-13-2008, 04:59 PM
You are correct. The poster asked why some players do it, and I offered a possible explanation. What you stated is what we teach in pool school...set to the exact contact point on the cue ball. This is the preferred option for most players. I am not about to tell anyone playing at the pro level that they are wrong...but I wouldn't advise any of my students to change tip position on the final stroke.
Steve

Right Steve...and I doubt any instructor, master or otherwise, is going to recommend the low tip method. Some great champions use it but a LOT of them do not. It's one of those personal preference "that's they way I learned it" kind of things.

IMHO, you need EXTREME eye/hand coordination to be able to stroke low and then, while maintaining dead focus on the OB, re-orient the stroke to cause the tip to contact the exact intended spot on the CB. That is NOT easy to do people.

In addition, also IMHO, one of THE leading causes for missed shots is tip contact at an unintended spot on the CB causing squirt, throw, curve or all of the above.

For me, hitting the vertical centerline is not an issue but I rarely use EXACT centerball. Here me out on this one. Normally, I use SLIGHTLY off centerball to the outside...as SLIGHT as possible. The reason I do that is to guarantee that I don't get inside by mistake.

If you attempt DEAD centerball and are slightly off, then you could get either outside or inside by mistake. If you aim SLIGHTLY outside and miss, you get slightly more outside or centerball...which is a way better way to miss.

For clarity, I am talking about "as slight as it gets." If you put the 9 Ball on the spot with the stripe straight up and aim SLIGHTLY off center, the stripe should still "roll like a tire" but just wobble a little.

Regards,
Jim

Scott Lee
01-13-2008, 05:13 PM
Since Randyg is here with me in Phoenix, here's what he says on this subject:

"The process you're describing is actually called 'grounding your cue'. In pool school, when we find a student that has unwanted sidespin (unable to find vertical center on CB), we teach them to ground their cue. By default, the CB sits on the veritical center at the base of the ball. By placing your cuetip at the base of the CB, you find vertical center accurately. Then you carefully adjust your cuetip up to your desired tip position on the CB, before starting your process. It's not uncommon to see a player gounding their cue (as a matter of fact I use it personally in my own process)!"

Randyg

I also utilize this process, and, just like Randy, move my tip on the aimpoint on the CB to where I plan to strike it, before beginning my personal process.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

.Let's hear Randy or Scott Lee or the like on this subject...Tom

Derek
01-13-2008, 09:36 PM
Since Randyg is here with me in Phoenix, here's what he says on this subject:

"The process you're describing is actually called 'grounding your cue'. In pool school, when we find a student that has unwanted sidespin (unable to find vertical center on CB), we teach them to ground their cue. By default, the CB sits on the veritical center at the base of the ball. By placing your cuetip at the base of the CB, you find vertical center accurately. Then you carefully adjust your cuetip up to your desired tip position on the CB, before starting your process. It's not uncommon to see a player gounding their cue (as a matter of fact I use it personally in my own process)!"

Randyg

I also utilize this process, and, just like Randy, move my tip on the aimpoint on the CB to where I plan to strike it, before beginning my personal process.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Thanks for the explanation and your time. Any future plans of coming through Colorado for instruction?

Scott Lee
01-14-2008, 12:50 AM
Derek...I will be coming through CO sometime in the next 2-3 months. PM me with your email address, and we'll communicate on what works best for both of us.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Thanks for the explanation and your time. Any future plans of coming through Colorado for instruction?