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Boro Nut
01-13-2008, 03:59 PM
Although this is from a snooker match I thought it deserved a wider audience, and especially those 1P players who enjoy a bit of creativity. It's a novel escape from a tricky snooker that Ronnie O'Sullivan had laid on Stephen Maguire in today's first frame of their Masters clash. Needing to hit the green without selling out, Maguire came up with this precision shot that helped him win the frame. It is a strong contender for shot of the championship even at this early stage.

Great Escape (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_YzILpI9jw)

His first attempt jaggled and hung in the pocket. Ronnie exercised his right to have the balls reset and he pulled it off at the second attempt.

Boro Nut

worriedbeef
01-13-2008, 04:11 PM
well thought and well executed. i would have spent ages trying to calculate some 6 rail escape or something, would never have thought of that.

TX Poolnut
01-13-2008, 04:14 PM
I don't think he was trying to do that. It looks like he was just trying to 2-rail it back to the green for the hit. Sometimes we give more credit for shots than should be. Sometimes even the pros get lucky too. I could be wrong.

Alex Kanapilly
01-13-2008, 04:21 PM
Great shot! I don't know all the rules of snooker, what do you mean Ronnie exercised his right to have the balls reset?

worriedbeef
01-13-2008, 05:05 PM
if your opponent fouls you can choose to play on yourself from where the balls have finished, or you can choose to have the balls reset and have him play the shot again. obviously in this case the best thing to do was just let maguire take it again, because it was so difficult to get out of. meaning ronnie was likely to pick up a few points from maguire fouling.

this can be key in winning a frame sometimes - it's not unusual for a player to undo all their hard work in making a high run by failing to get out of a tight snooker a few times, and giving away penalty points to your opponent.

a lot of the time a player will sacrifice a few points to make sure he gets the escape just right. for example if he's trying to play off one rail by the side pocket and just nestle the white into the reds (because he's snookered directly), he may not reach them on his first try. better to fall short and concede four points than to overdo it and break all the reds open for your opponent.

sometimes the replacement of balls can be a farce though. when a referee has to replace a whole bunch of scattered balls without being able see a proper picture, relying on talking to the commentators.

Boro Nut
01-13-2008, 05:16 PM
I don't think he was trying to do that. It looks like he was just trying to 2-rail it back to the green for the hit. Sometimes we give more credit for shots than should be. Sometimes even the pros get lucky too. I could be wrong.You are wrong. It's his second attempt at exactly the same shot. He only just missed the first time. He couldn't hit the green without jaggling the pocket, the angle isn't there, and you give away four points everytime you miss. He would lose the frame by clocking up meaningless misses if he wasn't trying to hit the green by using the jaws of the pocket. The advantage was by coming from behind the green he left no easy shot on it, which wouldn't have been the case if he attempted to escape by coming all around the table and missed.

It's not uncommon to use the jaws to throw the ball like that. But coming off a cushion with just the right amount of side to miss the pink and then jaggle the pocket correctly was highly skilled.

Boro Nut

1 Pocket Ghost
01-13-2008, 05:43 PM
I don't think he was trying to do that. It looks like he was just trying to 2-rail it back to the green for the hit. Sometimes we give more credit for shots than should be. Sometimes even the pros get lucky too. I could be wrong.


TX........With all due respect to Boro Nut, I think you are exactly right - there was room to go two rails and thin the green, and I believe that was what he was attempting to do - all of us one pocket players have shot that same safety a million times.

Boro Nut
01-13-2008, 06:00 PM
TX........With all due respect to Boro Nut, I think you are exactly right - there was room to go two rails and thin the green, and I believe that was what he was attempting to do - all of us one pocket players have shot that same safety a million times.No there wasn't. You can't get under the pink and up far enough to hit the green from where he plays the shot - almost square to the cushion. The pink isn't in the centre of the table. And listen to the commentators Willie Thorne and Dennis Taylor discussing his first attempt - which we all saw. He almost pulled it off first time. We all knew what he was trying then, as did they.

To get under the pink you would have to hit the cushion much higher up with much more side, and on snooker cushions that means much more speed to get it to bite. He made no discernible adjustment to his first attempt and played it at dead weight.

Boro Nut

1 Pocket Ghost
01-13-2008, 06:17 PM
No there wasn't. You can't get under the pink and up far enough to hit the green from where he plays the shot - almost square to the cushion. The pink isn't in the centre of the table. And listen to the commentators Willie Thorne and Dennis Taylor discussing his first attempt - which we all saw. He almost pulled it off first time. We all knew what he was trying then, as did they.

Boro Nut


Well, you didn't say "with all due respect" to me, as I addressed you, soooo, I'll just say....You're wrong.....Go back and watch the video and pause it at the 22 second point as I did, and it's quite obvious that there's enough room behind the pink to rebound off of the bottom rail and then thin the green.....and as for the commentators, well, of course they prefer for there to be drama/excitement and a fantastic shot executed - hence, the visual bias.

Alex Kanapilly
01-13-2008, 06:18 PM
...sometimes the replacement of balls can be a farce though. when a referee has to replace a whole bunch of scattered balls without being able see a proper picture, relying on talking to the commentators.

It's like replacing the object ball on an accidental touch in pool, sometimes your opponent will try to take advantage of the situation. At least you have a neutral ref trying to do it in these big events.

How is it done in non officiated matches? Who replaces the ball(s)?

McKinneyMiner
01-13-2008, 06:18 PM
TX........With all due respect to Boro Nut, I think you are exactly right - there was room to go two rails and thin the green, and I believe that was what he was attempting to do - all of us one pocket players have shot that same safety a million times.

I am going with Boro here...

The announcers are clearly discussing the exact shot he pulled off in attempt number 2.

That was a tremendous shot hit with perfect speed.

Ronnie had to be going nuts.

worriedbeef
01-13-2008, 06:26 PM
It's like replacing the object ball on an accidental touch in pool, sometimes your opponent will try to take advantage of the situation. At least you have a neutral ref trying to do it in these big events.

How is it done in non officiated matches? Who replaces the ball(s)?

to be honest i've never seen the situation come up personally in a non officiated match. however there is traditionally a higher regard on honesty, and calling your own fouls etc in snooker than in pool, so usually players just resolve a problem together with no trouble.

Boro Nut
01-13-2008, 06:35 PM
Well, you didn't say "with all due respect" to me, as I addressed you, soooo, I'll just say....You're wrong.....Go back and watch the video and pause it at the 22 second point as I did, and it's quite obvious that there's enough room behind the pink to rebound off of the bottom rail and then thin the green.....and as for the commentators, well, of course they prefer for there to be drama/excitement and a fantastic shot executed - hence, the visual bias.With all due respect - you are wrong. It's simple geometry. Look where the pink is in the end view of the table at the beginning. It is much closer to the green than it looks at 22 seconds from the side, and the green is further up than the pink. It's impossible to hit the green unless you play much higher up the first cushion or get a magical kick off the second cushion.

And as I said, we got to see the first attempt that rattled and stuck in the pocket. As soon as it went under the pink I knew what he was trying. He made no adjustment to get higher up the table on the second attempt. Whatever adjustment he made was imperceptible. There is absolutely no doubt that he meant it. You might have a more reasonable case for doubt if he'd pulled it off first time, though you'd still be wrong, but doing it twice is no fluke.

John Parrot agrees with me. He also said it was probably the best shot we will see all week.

Boro Nut

Alex Kanapilly
01-13-2008, 06:37 PM
to be honest i've never seen the situation come up personally in a non officiated match. however there is traditionally a higher regard on honesty, and calling your own fouls etc in snooker than in pool, so usually players just resolve a problem together with no trouble.

I call fouls on myself, but I get your point.:)

1 Pocket Ghost
01-13-2008, 07:32 PM
With all due respect - you are wrong.

Boro Nut


I'm not one to go on arguing an opinion back and forth - I don't have the energy for it, nor the inclination. So I'll just say...

Cheers, Have a Nice Day, Ghost

Nick B
01-13-2008, 08:07 PM
I play a lot of Golf on snooker tables (specifically Riley's which I believe that table was). The use of pocket jaws to go up rails is used quite often. You just brush the adjacent rail to the pocket which puts just a little induced outside spin on the ball. This along with just missing the point of where the pocket accepts the ball causes it to go 3,5 or more pocket rails and up the other side. Done it and have seen it done full width of the table and made hits on balls you could otherwise never get to.

I'm with Boro and I have no doubt this is what he tried. I'm sure if you polled 100 snooker players 90 plus would agree with him.

Nick