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View Full Version : Is Shane the new Efren?


gulfportdoc
01-13-2008, 06:46 PM
Is the Wizzard from South Dakota the heir apparent to Efren's throne? He already appears to be the best 9/10-ball player. After his victory over Cliff getting 10-7, 9-7, and not having played that much 1P; will he turn his attention and prodigious skill to the toughest of all pool games, and thereby complete his arsenal? Many of the top players say he's the real deal. The Wizzard may replace the Magician.

Doc

Island Drive
01-13-2008, 06:57 PM
Is the Wizzard from South Dakota the heir apparent to Efren's throne? He already appears to be the best 9/10-ball player. After his victory over Cliff getting 10-7, 9-7, and not having played that much 1P; will he turn his attention and prodigious skill to the toughest of all pool games, and thereby complete his arsenal? Many of the top players say he's the real deal. The Wizzard may replace the Magician.

Doc

I don't think any single player of American players that cut their teeth in the 1900's were better than Efren at his best in an all-around format. Tho you always heard of one or two that didn't get out allot but beat em all when they passed through.

lewdo26
01-13-2008, 06:57 PM
I like Efren playing 1P and Shane playing 10 ball. Shane does doesn't have the kind of knowledge Efren has, though it's hard for me to judge.

Of course, all of that could change over the years.

A no-brainer.

Flttracker
01-13-2008, 07:08 PM
Would you back Shane playing Cliff like that again?

I sure wouldn't, Cliff looked like he was dogging the whole way. Unless Cliff's game has gone down 3-4 balls recently and I missed it.


Shane is awesome... He has a looooooooooooong way to go before he is even in the same breathe with Efren though. IMO

Lets see Cliff put 3 sets on Alex !!!! Shane has a short road to go to be the best ! But thanks for guys like you that bet against Shane when he plays world Champions I'll be stuffing my pockets !! LOL

sizl
01-13-2008, 07:13 PM
Is the Wizzard from South Dakota the heir apparent to Efren's throne? He already appears to be the best 9/10-ball player. After his victory over Cliff getting 10-7, 9-7, and not having played that much 1P; will he turn his attention and prodigious skill to the toughest of all pool games, and thereby complete his arsenal? Many of the top players say he's the real deal. The Wizzard may replace the Magician.

Doc


Doc, I respect you as a person as well as your post, but I am going to have to say that you may be jumping the gun a little.
I lost money betting against SVB against Cliff in the 1P match that you was referring to, but I would definitely bet on Cliff again in the same match.
I realize that you said SVB needs to focus his "chi" on 1P, but IMO he is still far away from obtaining the skill level that Efren has accomplished. That being said, I definitely think that SVB is on the right track, but to even contemplate him taking over the "throne" is a bit premature IMO.

We know Shane is an 8Ball champion, he has the best 10ball break in the game, and he has stepped up and is taking on ALL players in different disciplines. But Efren has been doing it for years(except the break part)
Efren has stood the test of time and continues to be a dominant force in the world of billiards, but IMO Shane would be a considerable underdog in an all-around.
I understand that your question was rhetorical as well as opinionated, and I am pulling for SVB to bring the "THRONE"(if u will) back to the USA, but once again, we will not be able to answer your question until SVB has stood the test of time. IMO

Would I bet on SVB against Efren right now playing 10ball? Absolutely!
Hard to fade his break.:D And he does shoot str8 as well.
PEACE
Todd

Alex Kanapilly
01-13-2008, 07:18 PM
Doc, I respect you as a person as well as your post, but I am going to have to say that you may be jumping the gun a little.
I lost money betting against SVB against Cliff in the 1P match that you was referring to, but I would definitely bet on Cliff again in the same match.
I realize that you said SVB needs to focus his "chi" on 1P, but IMO he is still far away from obtaining the skill level that Efren has accomplished. That being said, I definitely think that SVB is on the right track, but to even contemplate him taking over the "throne" is a bit premature IMO.

We know Shane is an 8Ball champion, he has the best 10ball break in the game, and he has stepped up and is taking on ALL players in different disciplines. But Efren has been doing it for years(except the break part)
Efren has stood the test of time and continues to be a dominant force in the world of billiards, but IMO Shane would be a considerable underdog in an all-around.

I understand that your question was rhetorical as well as opinionated, and I am pulling for SVB to bring the "THRONE"(if u will) back to the USA, but once again, we will not be able to answer your question until SVB has stood the test of time. IMO

Would I bet on SVB against Efren right now playing 10ball? Absolutely!
Hard to fade his break.:D And he does shoot str8 as well.
PEACE
Todd


So how do you think Shane is a dog in an all around? What games would be played? I think he's going to win 9 ball, 10 ball, has a good chancd at 8 ball (yes, I know Efren plays great 8ball but so does Shane). I don't know about straight pool. I doubt he would win banks (but I don't know for sure) and I would say he has no shot at this point in one pocket.

ARM9BALLER
01-13-2008, 07:24 PM
Nobody is disputing that he is the real deal, but c'mon now!!!

jsp
01-13-2008, 07:31 PM
Nobody is disputing that he is the real deal, but c'mon now!!!
I agree.

Shane may be the new Alex, but I think Shane is still an underdog with Alex in an all-around competition (hint hint TAR ;)).

sizl
01-13-2008, 07:53 PM
So how do you think Shane is a dog in an all around? What games would be played? I think he's going to win 9 ball, 10 ball, has a good chancd at 8 ball (yes, I know Efren plays great 8ball but so does Shane). I don't know about straight pool. I doubt he would win banks (but I don't know for sure) and I would say he has no shot at this point in one pocket.


Alex, I apologize for being so vague in my previous post, as their are several different disciplines that could be involved in the ALL AROUND. First of all, lets base it on the DCC format.......
1) 9/10Ball(i realize 10ball is not in the DCC) (SVB is the favorite IMO in BOTH)
2) 1P (Efren is a BIG favorite IMO)
3) Banks (Efren is the favorite IMO)
Convinced yet? NO? OK, lets continue...

How about I give you a choice between several more disciplines.....
4) 8ball (TOSS UP IMO)
5) 14.1(Efren would have to be the favorite based on the experience level)
6) 15 BALL rotation (SVB has NO CHANCE)
7) Snooker (though I have never witnessed , nor heard of either playing this game, I would have to consider Efren the favorite based on his qball control.

I am pulling for SVB, but as I stated in another post, it is a bit premature to be comparing SVB to Efren.

I do not claim to have any "hook-ups" in the billiard community, but if you do and can set it up, I will let you pick ANY THREE of the above stated disciplines and I would have to bet on Efren. But then again everybody is entitled to their own opinion.
PEACE
TODD

Renegade
01-13-2008, 08:05 PM
How'd Shane do in this year's DCC?

tpdtom
01-13-2008, 08:16 PM
Most of the specific points have already been covered, but I think one thing has been overlooked. I vaguely remember when Efren came to this country. I don't know what games he played growing up, or as an adult in the Phils, but 1P wasn't one of them. He took lessons in Chicago and became the greatest player of that game on earth. Maybe he was already a champion at Rotation and 8 Ball , or Carom Billiards or whatever.

Shane is arguably the best 10 Ball player on the planet right now. His break sure is a huge factor but the rest of his game isn't lacking either. Here's my point, He's ONLY 23 ! Give him another 10 or 20 years to become the greatest all around player in the world. I don't think he's going away.

Another thing. I think that there are other Filipinos who play the short rack games better than Efren right now. It really doesn't matter who. Some of them can't get a visa yet to come and play in tournaments. They all want to come. They will too, a few at a time. It'll keep things interesting...Tom

Alex Kanapilly
01-13-2008, 08:22 PM
Alex, I apologize for being so vague in my previous post, as their are several different disciplines that could be involved in the ALL AROUND. First of all, lets base it on the DCC format.......
1) 9/10Ball(i realize 10ball is not in the DCC) (SVB is the favorite IMO in BOTH)
2) 1P (Efren is a BIG favorite IMO)
3) Banks (Efren is the favorite IMO)
Convinced yet? NO? OK, lets continue...

How about I give you a choice between several more disciplines.....
4) 8ball (TOSS UP IMO)
5) 14.1(Efren would have to be the favorite based on the experience level)
6) 15 BALL rotation (SVB has NO CHANCE)
7) Snooker (though I have never witnessed , nor heard of either playing this game, I would have to consider Efren the favorite based on his qball control.

I am pulling for SVB, but as I stated in another post, it is a bit premature to be comparing SVB to Efren.

I do not claim to have any "hook-ups" in the billiard community, but if you do and can set it up, I will let you pick ANY THREE of the above stated disciplines and I would have to bet on Efren. But then again everybody is entitled to their own opinion.
PEACE
TODD

OK, 10 ball, 8 ball and 1 pocket. I think that's pretty even. I'll take Shane in a small sweat bet.

BTW, I agree with your picks. But I also think we haven't seen a guy who is as comfortable winning as Shane is in a long time. He's not afraid to drill somone. It's only a matter of time before he's on top by himself. Granted, he may never get there in one pocket, only time will tell.

sizl
01-13-2008, 08:43 PM
OK, 10 ball, 8 ball and 1 pocket. I think that's pretty even. I'll take Shane in a small sweat bet.

BTW, I agree with your picks. But I also think we haven't seen a guy who is as comfortable winning as Shane is in a long time. He's not afraid to drill somone. It's only a matter of time before he's on top by himself. Granted, he may never get there in one pocket, only time will tell.


First of all, I appreciate the fact that we are conveying our views in a respectable manner, without throwing ANY flames. This is the way all threads should play out. IMO Thanks Alex, much respect to you bro'.

Alex, three disciplines that you picked out of the group that I listed was definitely SBV's best chance of winning. But think about that for a minute. Here are your 3 choices for the all around.....
1) 1P- SVB has no chance, IMO. Efren is just too seasoned and his qball control is far superior.
2) 8BAll- I am going to have to make Efren the favorite, because once again his qball control is much superior. And we all know you have to park whitey in smaller places more often playing 8ball. Obviously closer than 1P, but I still like Efren to win this discipline.
3)10Ball- As I stated in my above post, SVB has the BEST break in the game and that would be the deciding factor in this discipline.

This match-up would be one FOR THE AGES, but I still like Efren in ANY of disciplines that I previously posted.

In summation I would like to add, that I think Alex hit the nail on the head when he said "ONLY TIME WILL TELL"

PEACE
TODD

TATE
01-13-2008, 08:49 PM
Is the Wizzard from South Dakota the heir apparent to Efren's throne? He already appears to be the best 9/10-ball player. After his victory over Cliff getting 10-7, 9-7, and not having played that much 1P; will he turn his attention and prodigious skill to the toughest of all pool games, and thereby complete his arsenal? Many of the top players say he's the real deal. The Wizzard may replace the Magician.

Doc

I think so. It's pretty clear to me he's the chosen one. He has the talent, the desire, the work ethic, and the support structure. He will not self destruct.

It's possible Shane will transcend the pool world and show up in places like Sports Illustrated. What more compelling story than a young man from South Dakota who is respectful, polite, drug free, totally presentable, a world champion and a big money player?

He won't even reach his prime for at least 5 more years, and could well dominate the sport for the next 25 after that.

Chris

The Beginner
01-13-2008, 08:49 PM
If SVB wins the WPC and the IPT 8 ball for half a million first prize and beat reyes on a 15 balls game then you can compare SVB to Reyes....i hope SVB will not be the same as DEUL when he won the US open...it was big expetation from him....but look at him now...he hardly wins a major tournament...i hope SVB will keep his focus on the game and winning major tournaments...money game is nothing if you can't win big tournament.....pls don't disrespect Reyes by comparing him to SVB is just like comparing Crosby to the Great one "gretzky" ...SVB has alot to prove.

The Beginner
01-13-2008, 08:49 PM
..............deleted double post ..ooopssss lol

StoneCold
01-13-2008, 09:32 PM
There is no other backer of Cliff than me. That being said. Shane showed talent on the pool table that I've never seen. It was an absolute joy to watch him play 10 ball against Alex, and I haven't enjoyed watching 10 ball in a long time. Say what you want. Voice your opinion. Shane is the real deal. If he is in action I am betting the house on him. Just my 2 cents.


Mark

SJDinPHX
01-13-2008, 10:12 PM
Hi Doc,

IMHO, what I've seen so far re: SVB's game, its going to do nothing but improve.
My experience with younger straight shooters (who could bury me playing 9 ball)
but had no chance playing one pocket even, I offer the following scenario.

Shane obviously loves the game of pool and also reminds me of Richie Florence
and Shannon D, in his ability to play for high stakes at a very young age. He already
understands the basics of 1P, and the more he plays with guys like Cliff, the more
he'll learn. Cliff may have a decent game right now, at 9-7, but I would be willing
to wager by the time the 2009 DCC rolls around, Cliff will probably need to
change that game to 10-8 or 8-7 if he still wants to have a chance to win.

Young players of Shane's proven skills are like sponges when it comes to learning,
and m sure the more 1P he plays, the more he'll absorb the intricacies of the game.
Fast forward to the 2010 DCC and SVB will be approaching his prime and the
Efrens, Cliff's and Gabe's of the game (who are not getting any younger) may find
they have their hands full playing him even.

Like the old Mark Twain quote "When I was 18 years old, my father didn't know
a damn thing about nothing, but when I turned 21, it was amazing how much that
old man had learned in only three years.

Regards,

Dick

CebuanoNiNoy
01-13-2008, 10:25 PM
Another thing. I think that there are other Filipinos who play the short rack games better than Efren right now. It really doesn't matter who. Some of them can't get a visa yet to come and play in tournaments. They all want to come. They will too, a few at a time. It'll keep things interesting...Tom

You mean like this guy ? :D
http://www.sunstar.com.ph/static/dav/2008/01/14/sports/zerna.beats.gomez.earns.p500t.purse.html

vin
01-14-2008, 02:16 AM
not until shane does what efren and alcano did :D

memikey
01-14-2008, 02:59 AM
There isn't really even a starting point to make any reasonable comparison until Shane has travelled and competed succesfully quite a bit more outside USA.

For what its worth, at 12th in the WPA rankings he is by far the highest ranked of those players who list their nationality as USA, with John Schmidt next at tied 22nd. Neither of them could be described as prolific travellers outside USA but both could surely gain a lot from some experience in that respect. There are only 7 USA players in the top 50 and 16 in the top 100. You all need to travel more;) :D

Efren for the record is 32nd:)

cueandcushion
01-14-2008, 03:04 AM
Remember when Lebron James was called the "next Michael Jordan" before he even played his first NBA game? Tiger woods was the "next Jack Nicklaus".
Absurd rhetoric for sportcasters to try and pump up ratings.

SVB may be a superstar someday that no one can beat...But Efren, like Willie Mosconi, like Nick Varner, like Jean Balukas, like Buddy Hall, like Sang Lee....will always stand out in his own way. Different eras and changing games make each great champion fit a certain time period in this sport. Let each champion be remembered on his own and not a replacement for another.

There is only ONE Efren Reyes......

Maybe soon people will say the same about Shane. Time will tell.

Maybe in 10 years.. people will say...Is Landon Shuffet the next Shane Van Boening?

JB Cases
01-14-2008, 03:26 AM
it is going to be hard to be the next Efren Reyes as long as Efren Reyes is still playing. It's also hard to be the next Efren in today's world of great players who know enough of all games to be so dangerous.

When Efren showed up on the scene American players hardly ever kicked at balls the right way. They didn't need to. Efren showed them a new level that was solely based on his Rotation experience and 3 Cushion experience.

Now any player aspiring to Efren's throne has to fade tons of players with more knowledge of the various facets of the game. All that Efren and other Rotation players from the Phillipines has taught us in the last 20 years has been absorbed by the legions of hungry players vying for Efren's throne.

I liken SVB to the new Buddy Hall - ferociously hunting down champions to play and either get better or prove that he is better. And let's please remember who has a winning gambling record against Efren - the one and only Cecil Buddy "the Rifleman" Hall.

Drew
01-14-2008, 04:04 AM
Remember when Lebron James was called the "next Michael Jordan" before he even played his first NBA game? Tiger woods was the "next Jack Nicklaus".
Absurd rhetoric for sportcasters to try and pump up ratings.

SVB may be a superstar someday that no one can beat...But Efren, like Willie Mosconi, like Nick Varner, like Jean Balukas, like Buddy Hall, like Sang Lee....will always stand out in his own way. Different eras and changing games make each great champion fit a certain time period in this sport. Let each champion be remembered on his own and not a replacement for another.

There is only ONE Efren Reyes......

Maybe soon people will say the same about Shane. Time will tell.

Maybe in 10 years.. people will say...Is Landon Shuffet the next Shane Van Boening?

I'm sorry...Tiger gives Jack the 6 and the breaks. I never thought Lebron would be the next Jordan. IMO, Kobe is stronger than Michael ever was. Alright, let the flames begin.

Times change you're right. We will never forget the past champions. But there was a time nobody thought the Babe could be beat. Then Roger Maris beat one record and Hank Aaron beat another one. Now Bonds holds both titles (with or without ped's, it's still a feat). Records are made to be broken, and champs are made to be surpassed. The best players of yesterday can't hang with the best players today. Only time will tell what tomorrow's players will bring.

Drew
01-14-2008, 04:10 AM
As I stated in my above post, SVB has the BEST break in the game and that would be the deciding factor in this discipline.

I don't know about this. His break is strong that's for sure. But we haven't seen him play a lot of the filipinos or taiwanese. Best in the game might be a stretch. And that Hennessee looked like he was outbreaking Shane as well.

Johnnyt
01-14-2008, 04:45 AM
IMO Efren's game has slipped about 20% in the last year or so and I believe it will slip a little more in the next year. It is unfair to Efren to compare the two at this point of one of them climbing to the top and the other slipping from the top.

I know SVB is the real deal, I have minus $1700 in my pocket that it cost me because I didn't think he was for real. Johnnyt

DeadPoked
01-14-2008, 04:54 AM
Remember when Lebron James was called the "next Michael Jordan" before he even played his first NBA game? Tiger woods was the "next Jack Nicklaus".
Absurd rhetoric for sportcasters to try and pump up ratings.

SVB may be a superstar someday that no one can beat...But Efren, like Willie Mosconi, like Nick Varner, like Jean Balukas, like Buddy Hall, like Sang Lee....will always stand out in his own way. Different eras and changing games make each great champion fit a certain time period in this sport. Let each champion be remembered on his own and not a replacement for another.

There is only ONE Efren Reyes......



Wow, I hope the people that picked those two to be the next greats have been fired by this point. :rolleyes:

There is only ONE Efren and he will always live on as being 1 of the best players to ever screw a stick together, if not THE best.

Shane is on the right track to become one of the greatest pool players. That should be obvious to anyone. But a lot of great players have had their flames put out for many different reasons. One great thing about Shane... is that he currently doesn't have any of these reasons in his life and will hopefully not ever have those reasons that could prevent him from progressing even further. If Shane keeps having years like he has had in 2007 for years to come... then he will be right up there with Efren without a doubt.

People keep saying he needs to get better at 1 pocket to prove himself... give him time. I don't think he wants to improve so quickly... I personally heard it from him that he has never lost a 1 pocket match. Reason being is that he still getting spots from the top players. Won't be long for that to be a thing of the past.

buck15
01-14-2008, 05:24 AM
i think that shane is playing among the best 10 and 9 ball right now but....wait til he has dominated for another 3 years at the least. not to sound corny but right now he can pretty much do no wrong. he can handle the heat and pressure of money match ups and tournament snap shots with out a doubt but there have also been others that had that break out year or 2. how bout the one hit wonders that won a us open title to never play again at that level?? playing alex he won in thress sets 70 to 63 if my math is right. that could have gone either way, but it didn't i know. not to make exscuses but alex has not been playing as much like he used to . poker i hear is what he has been playing. but i can tell ya this, with his lose to shane, he will be hungry for there set to 100. not sure how i would bet but with it being 2 months away, and alex soaking in his lose, "i'll take alex for 100 please". i think the shane camp needs to wait a few years before any efren comparison is made. jmo.:)

predator
01-14-2008, 05:34 AM
Depends on who you are asking.
Pool fans worldwide or just American?
If it is worldwide, huge majority would say no.

cubc
01-14-2008, 05:40 AM
No way. not yet. Efren had to learn another game to continue getting action.. I dont see Shane being better at 1pocket, 3 cushion, etc. Even if he is as good as Efren at 10 ball now.. Efren has been consistent for soooo long theres no way Shane is the new Efren. That's like in basketball saying the new Jordan, or the new of any legend of anything. There is no new and there is no replacing. How about he just be Shane and he may become a legend himself in time.

Flttracker
01-14-2008, 05:42 AM
WTF are you talking about?

I don't bet on anything unless I control the outcome... Meaning me playing, not watching.

If you think Shane is close to being the best all around pool player in the world, then put him up against Busta or Efren playing 6-7 different games...

You will see exactly why you are wrong


BTW you do know that Cliff is the one who got 2nd in the World 10 ball Championships right?

And Cliff got beat by who in the world 10 ball ????????? Hmmmm .....Shane ?

catscradle
01-14-2008, 06:07 AM
... it is a bit premature to be comparing SVB to Efren...

I think that "premature" is the critical word. When Shane has demonstrated staying power over the years, then he can be talked of as the next Efren. It looks like he'll demostrate that staying power, but many others have looked like they would and didn't.

Island Drive
01-14-2008, 07:26 AM
It's one thing to play great, it's quite another to become Picasso. Efren didn't choose his path, his path chose him, he's like Dylan.............

parvus1202
01-14-2008, 08:25 AM
Shane next Reyes? Mmmm..No. Both have different strategy and playing style. Shane, like most players, is a straight shooter. That's why he can be bitten by others like him, say Ralp. Reyes on the other hand can see something that no one can see, will execute a shot that no one will ever attempt. Cue ball to Reyes is like his pet, go here, stay there, stop, sit, go back, turn around, etc. He is putting his brain inside the cue ball. So, no, Shane cannot be Reyes nor the next Reyes. But no doubt, Shane can excel, for how long, remains to be seen.

Jaden
01-14-2008, 09:00 AM
Of course SVB couldn't be the current Efren Reyes. Efren has consistently played the best when the big money was on the line...with only a couple of exceptions....

However, SVB is reminiscent of Efren when he started to truly dominate in the early nineties.... I think that it is possible that Kids starting to get in the game now will in fifteen years or so have conversations about how SVB is the best player to ever pick up a cue... etc.etc... like those of us who grew up in the pool game of nineties are doing now...

The people who grew up with the others who dominated the game are more likely to think those players are the best to ever pick up a cue... So who knows... I think Shane has a decent chance of being referred to by many as the greatest to ever pick up a cue but only time will tell, and Efren will be the only Efren but that doesn't mean that Shane won't become many of the things that have been lauded about Efren and while it may be premature to state those things about Shane, It isn't outside the realm of plausibility...

Jaden.

NoBull9
01-14-2008, 09:14 AM
If shanes getting 10-7 and beating Cliff in one pocket it doesn't make him the better player.Try Cliff even then you can talk.

cubc
01-14-2008, 09:18 AM
Cue ball to Reyes is like his pet, go here, stay there, stop, sit, go back, turn around, etc. He is putting his brain inside the cue ball.

haha my new sig quote.

klockdoc
01-14-2008, 09:33 AM
I agree.

Shane may be the new Alex, but I think Shane is still an underdog with Alex in an all-around competition (hint hint TAR ;)).

I think the only advantage that Shane had over Alex was the break. I thought that Alex's game surpassed Shane in the 3 set race.

Only 7 games difference after all three sets combined! Pretty sporty for the "Lion".

I think time will tell, but, to compare him to one of the greatest at this point? We'll see.

JoeyInCali
01-14-2008, 09:38 AM
Would SVB play Alex some rotation?

klockdoc
01-14-2008, 11:41 AM
And Cliff got beat by who in the world 10 ball ????????? Hmmmm .....Shane ?

1 game! I do not think that is classified as total domination. Yes Shane played a good game, but, that set could have gone either way.

Cliff showed his ability in beating Shane in 8 ball, I believe, 21 -13. Playing even might have been a sufficient.

Also, Cliff is the one that spotted Shane in 1 pocket, not the other way around. I don't think Shane would want any of that game even up.

I am not degrading Shane's ability, only stating that it is too early to put him on a pedestal. JMO