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View Full Version : Why pool does not have big sponsors. A simple explanation.


Vinnie
01-28-2008, 03:57 PM
How many non pool players will tune in to watch the US Open 9-Ball Championship?

OK

Now compare that to how many non football players that will tune in to watch the Super Bowl.

Thats it. Plain and simple. Pool is just to boring to watch unless you are a player. It's the same way with golf. How many non golfers watch golf on TV? Not many. The difference between golf and pool is that EVERYONE plays golf! OK, not everyone, but there are definitely way more golfers out there. So, the key to getting big sponsors for pool is to get everyone playing. The question is how? Here is my opinion list...

-Build more safe family orientated pool halls and don't charge an arm and a leg.
-Get pool into school. (why not, they have ping-pong and golf in schools)
-Embrace handicapping. (without the sandbagging)
-Every pool hall should have a "pro" that gives lessons for a reasonable price.
-Leagues and local tournaments. (maybe even some charity events)


Vinnie

crappoolguy
01-28-2008, 04:16 PM
I think that is the main reason why there is more money in snooker. Because many non players enjoy watching it.

Jallan
01-28-2008, 04:30 PM
I think, and may be wrong, pool is one of the most participated in sports in country. I would bet my left leg that more people played pool in the US last year than played football. The problem is not the amount of players, imo, it is the fact that pool when played well is not overly exciting to watch unless you know what is going on. A good nine ball rack is position and that is not as exciting as break away 90 yard runs and shoe string tackles.

We may enjoy watching pool because we know how tough it is to get the cue ball to go 3 rails and stop in a window of 5in x 5in. To others, it is not the shape they watch but the OB going in the pocket. Don't get me wrong, there are great shot makers and sometimes you have those great shots that look impossible that go down, but by the book pool is all about leaving yourself straight in and that is not exciting to the masses.

Thanks for reading.
Jered

DoomCue
01-28-2008, 05:13 PM
That's a little TOO simple. Other countries' populations have no problem watching what we Americans call "boring," like cricket, soccer, and snooker. Americans simply don't enjoy watching sports without physicality and/or physical risk, like football, basketball, NASCAR (bleh), etc. Pool has neither of those things. Sports which require more mental aspects are lost on us due to the lack of patience (and dare I say intelligence?) of the average American. We want things NOW DAMMIT! and the physicality of America's most popular sports satisfy our "needs" for some type of instant gratification. Pool is too slow of a game to give us that instant gratification we can get from other sports (although it's strange that people will watch a 3 hour football game waiting for it - not so instant then, is it?). I think the reason for pool's lack of popularity is far more psychological than anything else, and unfortunately, I don't think that's ever going to change in my lifetime. Everything in our society is moving towards faster, which is not necessarily better, IMHO.

Look at other aspects of our culture. From music to art to language and everyting in between, we've gotten lazier and less inclined to process thought. Classical and jazz used to be the most popular forms of music, and each requires (to a certain extent) knowledge and thought to truly enjoy. Now, we get 2 second "hooks" repeated 5 million times in a rap song. Speakers and writers of English used to think about the proper usage of contractions, homonyms, synonyms, and verb tense. Now, "disrespect" is a verb and "your" means the same thing as "your," "you're," and "ur." I don't know if that means we're getting dumber or lazier, but either way, I don't think it's a good thing.

-djb <-- knows some people won't read this post because they'll think it's too long

jgpool
01-28-2008, 05:31 PM
It needs one controlling authority and: Baseball has the Home Run(3 seconds) and the Strike Out(3-10 pitches), Basketball has the Slam Dunk(3 seconds) and the 3-Pointer(3 Seconds), Football has the Touchdown Pass(6-10 seconds) and the Sack(3-5 seconds), Hockey has the Breakaway(6-10 seconds) and the Big Hit(2-seconds). What does pool have? On The Snap(2 seconds), Runout?(2-5 minutes) Pales in comparison because of the time it takes to accomplish it. But what is the answer? What is the draw? We know what we are looking at and how hard it is.. Casual fans do not. Just some thoughts.

LAlouie
01-28-2008, 05:37 PM
No one watches pool. The answer couldn't be any simpler. If viewership was charting high, you'd see sponsors. They're always looking for a demographic to sell to.

DrJ
01-28-2008, 05:47 PM
..........

bfdlad
01-28-2008, 05:49 PM
It needs one controlling authority and: Baseball has the Home Run(3 seconds) and the Strike Out(3-10 pitches), Basketball has the Slam Dunk(3 seconds) and the 3-Pointer(3 Seconds), Football has the Touchdown Pass(6-10 seconds) and the Sack(3-5 seconds), Hockey has the Breakaway(6-10 seconds) and the Big Hit(2-seconds). What does pool have? On The Sanp(2 seconds), Runout?(2-5 minutes) Pales in comparison because of the time it takes to accomplish it. But what is the answer? What is the draw? We know what we are looking at and how hard it is.. Casual fans do not. Just some thoughts.
I agree with most everything you have said my friend. It is a passion for the game, watching and guessing in advace what you would do in that situation. The average joe who turns on ESNP and see's the game watches a while then turns off bedcause he has no connection. Maybe you look and say to yourself "he needs a little bottom right to stay on the 7" and then he does it. You feel good right. The joe has no concept of top bottom right or left. and so it looks easy and boring. There are 43 million people in the USA who are ACTIVE pool players. Not I go once a year when my buddys go Active like at least once a week. Seems like they all need to wake up and begin to get involved. I know everyone does the "look at poker thing" lets say look at Chess..... WTF millions of Russians whatch this stuff. they are like pop stars over there. I defy anyone to tell me a sport as boring as chess. There has to be a way to bring those millions of active pool players into the arena.

alstl
01-28-2008, 05:53 PM
Part of the problem is that a live pool match doesn't fit easily into a time slot because it is hard to know how long the match will take. If tv schedules two hours for a race to 11 and it only takes an hour and ten minutes they have 50 minutes to fill. As a result they are forced to show taped matches and that's a harder sell than a live event.

Bowling is far more boring than pool but it makes it on tv because they can plug it into a time slot and make it work.

CocoboloCowboy
01-28-2008, 05:54 PM
Pool has a image problem, that corporate America is shying away from. IMHO. http://www.geocities.com/cocobolocowboy/beatdeadhorse.gif

DoomCue
01-28-2008, 06:48 PM
Pool has a image problem, that corporate America is shying away from. IMHO. http://www.geocities.com/cocobolocowboy/beatdeadhorse.gif
Image doesn't keep corporate America from sponsoring the National Felons League. The NFL has all kinds of convicts playing in it, but football is the most popular professional sport. Poker is very popular, too. I used to think the perception of pool was its problem,too, but now I think that's only a minor contributing factor. Pool's just too slow to capture an American audience, which is the same reason soccer will never be as popular here as it is in other countries. I think pool needs a charismatic figure to overcome that. Golf has Tiger Woods, tennis has the beauties and the Williams sisters and Roger Federer, American Gladiators has Hulk Hogan (sorry, just threw that one in...). Who can be pool's Tiger?

-djb

CocoboloCowboy
01-28-2008, 07:02 PM
Image doesn't keep corporate America from sponsoring the National Felons League. The NFL has all kinds of convicts playing in it, but football is the most popular professional sport.


Your point about the NFL is a good one, and you can include MLB, the NBA, Hockey, Pro Golf, and NASCAR into the equation.

But they hall have attracted the like of most Consumer Good, Alcohol, Beer, Tobacco, etc. in to their fold.

How did they do it i do not know, plus all of the about have great Media Relations/PR Programs that most of the Pool organizations lack.

JesPiddlin
01-28-2008, 08:20 PM
...The problem is not the amount of players, imo, it is the fact that pool when played well is not overly exciting to watch unless you know what is going on....

Even though I know what's going on in major league baseball games, it is extremely boring to me! Nothing ever happens!

My opinion is that most folks can't watch pool on tv, and don't know they can watch it online. We have at least 12 free channels in our area, so even though a lot of folks have cable, etc., probably at least half still have free channels, only. Pool doesn't come on tv for us, so we never get to watch it. Most folks around here don't have time to sit at their computers and find pool-related stuff, either, so they're not going to be looking for matches they don't even have a clue about.

One night, a few of us were out shooting some pool in another town and a guy who helps organize a lot of the pool leagues and other events in his part of the country, had no clue who SVB was, when we mentioned we'd been watching his match, online. When we mentioned TAR, he had no clue. When we mentioned the SBE, he was lost. (He's big on Vegas.) This was a big city guy, who used to have his own pool hall! (Now, we know why he USED to have a pool hall!)

And, when we talk to most of the folks in our town, very few of them have a clue who or what about pool, too.

So, I think most of the lack of interest is simply due to a lack of knowledge. This is the main reason I feel very strongly that pool should be broadcast on ABC, NBC and CBS, not just the sports stations. Poker is on those stations... why not pool?

JMuck
01-28-2008, 09:49 PM
High speed cameras.More cameras ,better viewing angles and lighting.Provide identity for the game through science, optics and production.

steveharn
01-28-2008, 09:57 PM
How many non pool players will tune in to watch the US Open 9-Ball Championship?

OK

Now compare that to how many non football players that will tune in to watch the Super Bowl.

Thats it. Plain and simple. Pool is just to boring to watch unless you are a player. It's the same way with golf. How many non golfers watch golf on TV? Not many. The difference between golf and pool is that EVERYONE plays golf! OK, not everyone, but there are definitely way more golfers out there. So, the key to getting big sponsors for pool is to get everyone playing. The question is how? Here is my opinion list...

-Build more safe family orientated pool halls and don't charge an arm and a leg.
-Get pool into school. (why not, they have ping-pong and golf in schools)
-Embrace handicapping. (without the sandbagging)
-Every pool hall should have a "pro" that gives lessons for a reasonable price.
-Leagues and local tournaments. (maybe even some charity events)


Vinnie



Start from the ground up, pool needs an overhaul. The only people playing pool are in bars and taverns and gambling seems the only thing that attracks the people involved these days. Gambling is even a big part of this forum.Back in the day we looked forward to going to the pool hall and playing with our friends and neighbors. Hardly any kids and very few families particape these days.

DrJ
01-28-2008, 10:05 PM
..........

Scott Lee
01-28-2008, 10:23 PM
bldlad...Your numbers are wrong. The 43 million number (taken from SGMA polls) refers to people who have played at least once in the past year. The REAL number, as you described "active", is somewhere around 5 million, which is still a big number. Out of those, only 10% are connected with any type of sanctioned league play. It will take a grassroots effort to get the 4.5 million NON-league players interested in any kind of sports promotion. How to do that, I can't say...but my numbers are spot on.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

There are 43 million people in the USA who are ACTIVE pool players. Not I go once a year when my buddys go Active like at least once a week.

Vinnie
01-28-2008, 11:21 PM
... The only people playing pool are in bars and taverns and gambling seems the only thing that attracts the people involved these days...

You are correct. All of the pool leagues in my town are played in bars and taverns every week. We do not have a pool hall. We do have a few golf courses. I think that it's the same in many towns. Heck, even most of the newer pool halls that I have seen serve alcohol. It's because they need to serve drinks to make enough money. I wish it was not that way.

Vinnie

AZE
01-28-2008, 11:37 PM
because it sucks?

CocoboloCowboy
01-29-2008, 04:53 AM
Maybe if we all dressed better, look clean cut like this guy Pool would get noticed by big sponsors.http://www.insidepool.com/images/upload/JohnnyArcherBIO3.jpg

pooljunkie4ever
01-29-2008, 05:34 AM
IMHO, Pool is lacking gambling. Yes I said Gambling. All of the big four sports
are setup where a non-participant can get involved by placing a wager on the out come. For instance, if you eliminated wagering from these sports, they would just slowly bleed to death. People love to gamble, that is a proven fact, just look at Vegas, they have all the money. Hell people go on vacations to give their money away, LOL.

The question is, can gambling be incorporated in pool like the other sports?
If you watch the color of money, you would have to say it would be impossible because there are to many dishonest players involved. The only way I see this happening is, the stacks become so big that if you are caught dumping, you will pay a heavy price. For example, the players that got caught in tennis this past year, they were suspended for a few years, banned from the sport.

catscradle
01-29-2008, 06:10 AM
... Pool is just to boring to watch unless you are a player...

That about says it all, except it is often times boring to watch even when you are a player. The main reason I watch it is for it's instructional value.

Bluesteel
01-29-2008, 06:14 AM
All the other sports...NFL,MLB,NBA,PGA,LPGA,NASCAR,etc....all have ONE governing body, and ONE major tour, with smaller ones under their umbrella...all working to make the top ONE successful. If all the pool tours across the country sat down and decided to work together and have one tour, one name, with different divisions it might work. But until there is only ONE tour, with smaller tours under its umbrella as developmental type tours and ONE governing body to decide what that tour and its players can and can not do, I don't see it happening.

lodini
01-29-2008, 06:28 AM
All the other sports...NFL,MLB,NBA,PGA,LPGA,NASCAR,etc....all have ONE governing body, and ONE major tour, with smaller ones under their umbrella...all working to make the top ONE successful.


Here's the problem, folks. If I were a great big company, and I decided I wanted to spend money sponsoring professional pool on a national level... There's literally no one for me to give my money to... (Oh, that's right... the WPBA:D )

SJDinPHX
01-29-2008, 07:00 AM
Here's the problem, folks. If I were a great big company, and I decided I wanted to spend money sponsoring professional pool on a national level... There's literally no one for me to give my money to... (Oh, that's right... the WPBA:D )
That may change sooner than you think (I hope!)

bfdlad
01-29-2008, 07:32 AM
Maybe if we all dressed better, look clean cut like this guy Pool would get noticed by big sponsors.http://www.insidepool.com/images/upload/JohnnyArcherBIO3.jpg
I very rarley disagree with you Cowboy but I think that all the pro players that the public see on TV etc dress well. Maybe at local tournaments at the bar etc they don't but the visible ones do. I agree though on the fact that it is good for the sport.

MasterClass
01-29-2008, 08:52 AM
IMHO, Pool is lacking gambling. Yes I said Gambling. All of the big four sports
are setup where a non-participant can get involved by placing a wager on the out come. For instance, if you eliminated wagering from these sports, they would just slowly bleed to death. People love to gamble, that is a proven fact, just look at Vegas, they have all the money. Hell people go on vacations to give their money away, LOL.

The question is, can gambling be incorporated in pool like the other sports?
If you watch the color of money, you would have to say it would be impossible because there are to many dishonest players involved. The only way I see this happening is, the stacks become so big that if you are caught dumping, you will pay a heavy price. For example, the players that got caught in tennis this past year, they were suspended for a few years, banned from the sport.

I dunno why your reps are red but what you say kind of makes sense. Where there is money to be won or lost it will generate interest.

I remembered some of the biggest sponsors in cue sports were from online gambling sites and cigarette companies but i think they were ban for some reasons so i it is hard to get big sponsor anywhere else besides casinos. Would NIKE sponsor pool and come out with some pool outfits? It would be great! I would buy some!

I know there are online gambling sites that can bet on pool players like in the WPC but it is not legitimate here not sure about in the USA. Else that would be good start.

Pool is a cool sport. Commonly link to gambling, alcohol and women. Whats there not to like! we just need to get the message across.........

catscradle
01-29-2008, 10:01 AM
All the other sports...NFL,MLB,NBA,PGA,LPGA,NASCAR,etc....all have ONE governing body, and ONE major tour, with smaller ones under their umbrella...all working to make the top ONE successful. If all the pool tours across the country sat down and decided to work together and have one tour, one name, with different divisions it might work. But until there is only ONE tour, with smaller tours under its umbrella as developmental type tours and ONE governing body to decide what that tour and its players can and can not do, I don't see it happening.
You've got it backwards, the governing bodies evolved BECAUSE of the popularity of the sport, not the other way around.

Bluesteel
01-29-2008, 10:23 AM
You've got it backwards, the governing bodies evolved BECAUSE of the popularity of the sport, not the other way around.

So it is the chicken or the egg...without the governing body, the sport doesn't get off the ground and become anything that the both the big corporate and small mom and pop sponsors want to invest into. And just as you have stated, without the popularity, there is no need for the governing body. What I was saying was that all of the tours that are spread out all over should come together...under one name/tour. Then, the former owners of the smaller tours could run their own regions (without scheduling conflicts...or there would be no point) and would be responsible for their own region, but would be held accountable by the governing body.

catscradle
01-29-2008, 10:49 AM
So it is the chicken or the egg...without the governing body, the sport doesn't get off the ground and become anything that the both the big corporate and small mom and pop sponsors want to invest into. And just as you have stated, without the popularity, there is no need for the governing body. What I was saying was that all of the tours that are spread out all over should come together...under one name/tour. Then, the former owners of the smaller tours could run their own regions (without scheduling conflicts...or there would be no point) and would be responsible for their own region, but would be held accountable by the governing body.

Good idea, good luck getting that instituted. If if the various tours agreed to have a governing body, they'd back off as soon as money to run it was asked for.
At least you've an idea, more than most have.

Vinnie
01-29-2008, 11:28 AM
...without the governing body, the sport doesn't get off the ground ...

I agree that one governing body is a step in the right direction. Everything would be way more organized. When I was in high school, I was on the fencing team. I was required to join the United States Fencing Association (USFA) before being allowed to fence in any of the tournaments we went to. The yearly membership was $10 at the time and the benefits included a quarterly/semi-annual (can't remember) magazine that listed event schedules and standings. Also, I'm pretty sure that the USFA keeps records for all of its members. Could you imagine how nice that would be for pool?

Vinnie
------------
Touche', Monsieur Pussycat

Cuaba
01-29-2008, 01:06 PM
People who watch golf & tennis usually play those games. They are usually members of country clubs. They are typically professionals who drive Benzes & wear Rolexes. So corporations sponsor these sports to sell products to them that they are likely to buy.

Football, Basketball, Baseball, Hockey, Racing, etc. are big arena sports that have a broad appeal to a large number of people that don't play these games. Corporations can appeal to a large audience for all kinds of products by sponsoring thes sports.

Pool is a close-up game that requires a lot of knowledge to fully appreciate. Pool players who have this knowledge tend to hang out in pool rooms, drink, smoke cigarettes, and tend to be broke. Sponsors in the past have mostly been beers and cigarette companies (go figure.) If they can't make money sponsoring pool, who can?

When Camel sponsored pool, look what happened. Guiness just stepped up to sponsor the Asian 9-Ball Tour, and its 2 biggest stars (Efren & Bustamante) boycotted the tour. The truth is many pool pros don't respect the companies that could bring more money to the game. So they end up stuck with guys like KT.

lodini
01-29-2008, 01:48 PM
Guiness just stepped up to sponsor the Asian 9-Ball Tour, and its 2 biggest stars (Efren & Bustamante) boycotted the tour. The truth is many pool pros don't respect the companies that could bring more money to the game. So they end up stuck with guys like KT.


Did they really boycott the tour?? Why? Because they didn't want to be affiliated with a beer company? Wow... I am shocked. Then again, I have been told before that pro pool players rarely cooperate with sponsors. :confused:

Cuaba
01-29-2008, 01:59 PM
Did they really boycott the tour?? Why? Because they didn't want to be affiliated with a beer company? Wow... I am shocked. Then again, I have been told before that pro pool players rarely cooperate with sponsors. :confused:

They have affiliations with San Miguel, the beer company in the Philippines that used to sponsor the tour. I respect their loyalty, but they should look at the big picture.

lodini
01-29-2008, 02:05 PM
They have affiliations with San Miguel, the beer company in the Philippines that used to sponsor the tour. I respect their loyalty, but they should look at the big picture.

It's not even about loyalty. It's about wanting the progression of the sport you are involved in. Professional athletes over every sport have endorsement deals with companies that are not sponsors of the league they play in or the team they play on... That's the way the business goes.