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bud green
01-30-2008, 07:18 AM
A friend who sells pool tables, and a few others, have mentioned that its getting really hard to sell decent pool tables because China is "flooding" the home market with cheap tables.

Anyone familiar with these tables? How bad are they?

I'm guessing this may be part of the reason Olhausen stopped supporting a pool tour in AZ.

Gerry
01-30-2008, 09:32 AM
2 years ago I got a table from Boston pool tables called a "9' Victory Pro", and it was most likely a "Chinese" knock off of a Gold Crown. Over all the table plays great, and went together just like the GC3's I've worked on for years.....same slate, same rails. The only PIA was they had NO directions!!!....luckily I have worked in a few pool rooms that did work on thier own tables so I had no issues. At $2600 delivered to my house with Simonis and the rails covered, the price was right, and all I really need to do is shim the pockets next time I do the rails.

I'm all for buying American, but theres something wrong when I can get basically the same table delivered from China for what $5k less then the guy down my street?!

whitewolf
01-30-2008, 10:02 AM
I used to work for a table builder/repairman

He hated those cheap tables, the way he explained it to me was.... If he assembled one and set it up in a home, he was taking a chance at hurting his reputation because many of the are built so bad that no matter how well he assembled them, there was a chance they would become unleveled or fall apart. He also talked about how the pieces frequently didn't match which made proper installation nearly impossible.
...............................


Been there done that with a stupid Chinese table. Never again. The dealer would not fix the problem, nor did they give 2 sh!ts.

I had to beg lots of people to come by and pick it up for free. Finally I got a friend of mine who was a good table mechanic to take it off my hands.

He either made new parts or realigned somehow the parts that did not fit and it plays well for him. The table did have nice slate and I had just bought top rails. But I don't miss it one iota.

Gregg
01-30-2008, 10:26 AM
I play on my Chinese made table almost everyday.

IMO A LOT goes into the table setup in that you can setup.

A $10,000 US made table setup poorly will play poorly, or you can take some additional time to setup a Chinese table and it will outplay the US made table.

My buddy has a Valley bar table, and man the guys who set it up knew what they were doing and took their time; it plays great and has Simonis cloth.

Johnnyt
01-30-2008, 10:44 AM
There is a poolroom in Tampa, Fl that has 13 of these made in China POS. I played in their the first year they got them. Pockets were coming loose. ball returns were a constant problem, and slate moving with regular play. IMO they are garbage. Johnnyt

Fatboy
01-30-2008, 10:53 AM
I'm guessing this may be part of the reason Olhausen stopped supporting a pool tour in AZ.


olhausen is having some finiacal diffucultys now, they moved their plant from Ca to Tn, I think. Or pehaps Ky what ever the case the move was because the cost of doing biz in Ca was just to expensive, the move cost them ALOT and they have cut back on alot of advertizing, paying pros endorsment deals etc and pool tours too. I would think that when they get on their feet gain they will do something, but thats a ways off, brunswick is building a decent tablethe GC5 is a good box and parts of it are made in China as is most of all their stuff giving Brunswick larger profit margins and a cometeitive edge over Olhausen, I wont bring Diamond into this because they are making replacement barboxes and tournment 9'tables and have a different market of customers, where olhausen and Bwick targetthe home table customers. things are bleek for olhausen currently, i hope they make it.

trob
01-30-2008, 12:11 PM
My table was purchased at namco. I'm fairly certain that they don't make there own tables. Anyone know who makes them? It's nothing fancy but with tournament cloth on it and accufast rails it plays pretty darn good.

berlowmj
01-30-2008, 01:15 PM
A friend who sells pool tables, and a few others, have mentioned that its getting really hard to sell decent pool tables because China is "flooding" the home market with cheap tables.

Anyone familiar with these tables? How bad are they?

I'm guessing this may be part of the reason Olhausen stopped supporting a pool tour in AZ.

I got it for $700 including cloth, balls, rack, bridge, & set up. It is unfinished so it is not pretty. But I play on it & let my wife fantasize about refinishing it. It is hidden in the basement with my power rack & ugly improvised deadlift platform. Function over aesthetics!

Johnnyt
01-30-2008, 02:39 PM
I have all Chinese tables in my room since 1989. They have held up very well in a Marine Bar. The military puts a ton of use to them and they hold up. The key is to take the proper time to set up. I have just changed one to the Chinese version of the Metro. My customers love it and it plays very good. I have one table that has not been releveled once since 1998! Only recovered but I have never needed to touch the slates. I have to wonder what company these people have been dealing with to have had that much trouble with tables. This thread is sounding more like a BS knock China hype. I love the US tables guys but find it hard to believe that any room owner would not research and purchase from a respected company if they are going to base any pool room business around unknown Chinese tables. Flags are going up here. My thoughts: A good value for the savings if you are on a budget or like me on an island where shipping and customs would not make the purchase worth the additional expenses.

I can't find the brand name of the ones I was talking about. It was a 4-letter name Ileo...something like that. If I run into someone that owns or still plays there I'll post it. Johnnyt

Sporto
01-30-2008, 07:08 PM
Anyone ever seen or played on a 9ft Gold Crown knock-off table like this and know the mfg/model?

okinawa77
01-30-2008, 07:33 PM
I don't know if you guys realize this, but a lot of the U.S. pool table manufacturers contract to Asia. I bought an Olhauzen recently, and the wood was from Asia, cut to Olhauzen's specifications. Of course, the dealer sold it much cheaper than the other...completely U.S. made tables.

jay helfert
01-30-2008, 07:44 PM
Anyone ever seen or played on a 9ft Gold Crown knock-off table like this and know the mfg/model?


I've seen these in the Philippines. I think Puyat had them made. I forget what they call them. Not bad tables.

cueandcushion
01-30-2008, 07:44 PM
A friend who sells pool tables, and a few others, have mentioned that its getting really hard to sell decent pool tables because China is "flooding" the home market with cheap tables.

Anyone familiar with these tables? How bad are they?

.

I think you get what you pay for. The average American wants a CHEAP table that PLAYS PERFECT. There is NO such thing. So when you make them choose, most of the time they go cheap/Chinese. Most bangers (who drive the market for home tables) cannot tell the difference in cheaper rubber or hollow sounding body. They would rather save $1000. They really don't care. :mad: China is simply filling a need in a capitalisitic market. You cannot be mad at China for fulfilling our desires. They have less regulation in terms of stains, chemicals, and work conditions or legal liability. This saves them money and they use it against us. We are so concerned as a nation for babysitting ourselves through government regulation; that we forget that every regulation sends another 1000 jobs overseas.

Someone gets sick....employer gets sued....govt regulation gets passed....safe work environment that doubles price of goods....job goes overseas....same product gets imported for half the price.

About 10 years ago, we sold 90% American and 10% Chinese tables. Now we are 60% Chinese and 40% American. Every year it goes down (American products) To my knowledge Brunswick does not have a single part of their pool tables made in America anymore. Mexico, Brazill and China makes Brunswick tables.

We are setting our own destiny with this behavior. Making China the next sole Superpower while we wallow in our consumer debt paying off tons of poorly made junk in our house that we never needed in the first place.

Done with my rant for now....:confused:
What was this thread about? :rolleyes:

Johnnyt
01-30-2008, 10:08 PM
I think you get what you pay for. The average American wants a CHEAP table that PLAYS PERFECT. There is NO such thing. So when you make them choose, most of the time they go cheap/Chinese. Most bangers (who drive the market for home tables) cannot tell the difference in cheaper rubber or hollow sounding body. They would rather save $1000. They really don't care. :mad: China is simply filling a need in a capitalisitic market. You cannot be mad at China for fulfilling our desires. They have less regulation in terms of stains, chemicals, and work conditions or legal liability. This saves them money and they use it against us. We are so concerned as a nation for babysitting ourselves through government regulation; that we forget that every regulation sends another 1000 jobs overseas.

Someone gets sick....employer gets sued....govt regulation gets passed....safe work environment that doubles price of goods....job goes overseas....same product gets imported for half the price.

About 10 years ago, we sold 90% American and 10% Chinese tables. Now we are 60% Chinese and 40% American. Every year it goes down (American products) To my knowledge Brunswick does not have a single part of their pool tables made in America anymore. Mexico, Brazill and China makes Brunswick tables.

We are setting our own destiny with this behavior. Making China the next sole Superpower while we wallow in our consumer debt paying off tons of poorly made junk in our house that we never needed in the first place.

Done with my rant for now....:confused:
What was this thread about? :rolleyes:
Very well said though and true :D . Johnnyt

okinawa77
01-30-2008, 11:55 PM
Konichiwa okinawarob san,

Just curious, in case I get a chance to visit Okinawa, what size are your tables? And how many?

Do you have a website?

Most bars/pool halls in the U.S. have websites now.

It is difficult to find places to play in Japan. I am in Yokohama at this moment.

viva
01-31-2008, 12:22 AM
I can't find the brand name of the ones I was talking about. It was a 4-letter name Ileo...something like that. If I run into someone that owns or still plays there I'll post it. Johnnyt


Johnnyt I think the name you are looking for is 'OLIO.' These tables are fairly common here in Adelaide, Australia. The ones over here play great, especially the ones covered in simonis.

Theres a place out here with over 50 American style tables and they have about 3 different types of chinese tables and about 5 or so brunswicks that they use for tourneys. the chinese tables play reasonably well but the rails all react strangely whereas the brunswicks play more consistently.

I would have to say that I prefer the OLIO tables more than the brunswicks though because they have a solid feel to them. theres another room out here that has about 5 genuine Brunswick Metros, but I still prefer the OLIO's over them, they just play better!

MikeJanis
01-31-2008, 12:30 AM
WOW, it looks like American Made tables manufacturers are suffering the same way American Made Cue manufacturers have been since the infiltration of foreign cues.

viva
01-31-2008, 12:54 AM
The Junior WPC was played out here in Adelaide, Australia a few years back (the year Wu Chia Ching came second to Wu Yu Lun) and all the matches were played out on OLIO tables, with the finals being played on a smooth looking black model. CC Wu had no problems about the tables and he is a former world champ.

I have also seen a Taiwanese tv commercial promoting OLIO products so I think they are a Tiawanese product. the Tiawanese sure can play and i bet they can tell the difference between a well playing table and a bad one.

If I ever save up the money to purchase a table for my home I will be buying OLIO over Brunswick. See here in OZ the price differences between Chinese made tables and American tables are even larger than they are in the US.

I'll buy the OLIO and keep the extra AUS$5,000 for a holiday to the Philippines and while Im there I'll still have enough spare dough to buy a few custom cues from Edwin Reyes, Linds, or Viattore. When I get back to OZ, the cues that I dont need I'll sell off for a reasonable profit.

Wow what an imagination, just think a few more overtime shifts and I'll be there!

Roy Steffensen
01-31-2008, 01:16 AM
I bought 23 Brunswick Super Gold Crown IV when I opened my poolhall. It costed a lot, and I would never do it again. (I also noticed that it said "Made in Brazil" on parts on it too;))

Chinese table called Yalin looks almost the same, and plays perfect. I play on one of those regulary. Cost 1/5 of the price...

vin
01-31-2008, 03:28 PM
^remember the wpc qualifier? some of the table has star billiards written on them. they are chinese imitations too :)

Roy Steffensen
01-31-2008, 03:31 PM
^remember the wpc qualifier? some of the table has star billiards written on them. they are chinese imitations too :)

And they played great!

trob
01-31-2008, 03:44 PM
I think you get what you pay for. The average American wants a CHEAP table that PLAYS PERFECT. There is NO such thing. So when you make them choose, most of the time they go cheap/Chinese. Most bangers (who drive the market for home tables) cannot tell the difference in cheaper rubber or hollow sounding body. They would rather save $1000. They really don't care. :mad: China is simply filling a need in a capitalisitic market. You cannot be mad at China for fulfilling our desires. They have less regulation in terms of stains, chemicals, and work conditions or legal liability. This saves them money and they use it against us. We are so concerned as a nation for babysitting ourselves through government regulation; that we forget that every regulation sends another 1000 jobs overseas.

Someone gets sick....employer gets sued....govt regulation gets passed....safe work environment that doubles price of goods....job goes overseas....same product gets imported for half the price.

About 10 years ago, we sold 90% American and 10% Chinese tables. Now we are 60% Chinese and 40% American. Every year it goes down (American products) To my knowledge Brunswick does not have a single part of their pool tables made in America anymore. Mexico, Brazill and China makes Brunswick tables.

We are setting our own destiny with this behavior. Making China the next sole Superpower while we wallow in our consumer debt paying off tons of poorly made junk in our house that we never needed in the first place.

Done with my rant for now....:confused:
What was this thread about? :rolleyes:


Or maybe someone of us don't have unlimted funds. Maybe some of us have children were puting through catholic...mortgages and all the other bs and honestly don't have the 4 grand to lay down on a table.

JoeyInCali
01-31-2008, 04:19 PM
Or maybe someone of us don't have unlimted funds. Maybe some of us have children were puting through catholic...mortgages and all the other bs and honestly don't have the 4 grand to lay down on a table.
That's why I bought a used Gold Crown II.
$975 used plus about a grand in refurbishing/install.

trob
01-31-2008, 05:35 PM
That's why I bought a used Gold Crown II.
$975 used plus about a grand in refurbishing/install.

You my friend got a one hell of a sweet deal. I couldn't get a used a gandy around here for that price.

and btw..what the heck happened to Gandy? When I was first playing more then 20 years ago every pool hall and club around here at gandy's.

Johnnyt
02-01-2008, 01:25 AM
Johnnyt I think the name you are looking for is 'OLIO.' These tables are fairly common here in Adelaide, Australia. The ones over here play great, especially the ones covered in simonis.

Theres a place out here with over 50 American style tables and they have about 3 different types of chinese tables and about 5 or so brunswicks that they use for tourneys. the chinese tables play reasonably well but the rails all react strangely whereas the brunswicks play more consistently.

I would have to say that I prefer the OLIO tables more than the brunswicks though because they have a solid feel to them. theres another room out here that has about 5 genuine Brunswick Metros, but I still prefer the OLIO's over them, they just play better!

Yes thats them....thank you. I don't know if their are more than one model commercial OLIO...but the ones I'm talking about did not play solid. It wasn't just me that sad it either...I was in there at least 8 hours a day for over a year and never heard anyone that liked them...including the owner. Johnnyt