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olauzon
02-01-2008, 11:34 PM
normally players rack an 8 ball rack with all solids or stripes in the corners. i rack with 2 to 1 in the corners meaning the start goes 2 - 3,10 - 11,8,5 - 7,12,1,15 - 14,4,13,9,6 for instance (darn that hurt my barley head)

i end up with 2 of either paired whereas 3 same corner balls have 1 paired. corner balls will travel the most which is why i prefer 2 to 1, and admittedly also for baffling people even before they break (baffle i can do)

common or not? the pattern that is

RunoutalloverU
02-01-2008, 11:40 PM
normally players rack an 8 ball rack with all solids or stripes in the corners. i rack with 2 to 1 in the corners meaning the start goes 2 - 3,10 - 11,8,5 - 7,12,1,15 - 14,4,13,9,6 for instance (darn that hurt my barley head)

i end up with 2 of either paired whereas 3 same corner balls have 1 paired. corner balls will travel the most which is why i prefer 2 to 1, and admittedly also for baffling people even before they break (baffle i can do)

common or not? the pattern that is

It was hard to follow one gd word of that. One at the top, 8 in the middle, corners are one solid one striped, the rest random, pretty easy.

enzo
02-01-2008, 11:45 PM
this is a very interesting question, and i have long wondered what actual rule books say.

i literally just throw them in and put the 8 in the middle. every once in a while a guy thinks i'm somehow cheating (wouldn't me cheating require knowing whether or not he's going to make a ball on the break?? an obvious impossibility)..... i then just rack however he wants, but i hate it cus it requires me to rerack the whole thing.

from my personal knowledge and experience, it would be very hard to gain any advantage by racking them in a certain order, thus racking order really isn't all that important...... i'd be happy to hear some other thoughts on that of course. i have heard j tucker say something similar. he thinks simply the 2 corner balls (in the back) should be of different suit, and that's it (except for the 8 of course). i agree with that assessment as well, that is, i see nothing wrong with that.

olauzon
02-01-2008, 11:48 PM
It was hard to follow one gd word of that. One at the top, 8 in the middle, corners are one solid one striped, the rest random, pretty easy.

barely understood myself after reading it a second time. but you got it

RunoutalloverU
02-01-2008, 11:59 PM
barely understood myself after reading it a second time. but you got it
haha good times

okinawa77
02-02-2008, 03:08 AM
http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AALW4BCYB3CCpA3DEUO4EFCe3FCxe4GBKP3HAMB3IAUe3JF bd4KDnP3LBjP4MCIf4NBJl3OBal2PAcc@

okinawa77
02-02-2008, 03:12 AM
olauzon,

There are ways to rack a 9 ball or 15 ball (rotation) rack, so that when you're opponent breaks, depending on their break....will cause a tough run out.

I can't think of ways in 8 ball, but I never really thought about it in 8 ball. Joe Tucker may know.

renard
02-02-2008, 05:01 AM
From one of Joe Tuckers suggestions in his racking secrets book.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AALW4BCYB3CCpA3DAMf4EFCe3FEMO4GBKP3HAMB4ICYf3JF bd4KDnP3LBjP3MCxe4NBJl3OBal1PXFW@

Cornerman
02-02-2008, 05:22 AM
normally players rack an 8 ball rack with all solids or stripes in the corners. Only players who have never played anything other than Friday nights or APA. Unfortunately, that's most players.

I rack pretty much the same way every time. I watch the stripes and solidsdown the right and left side and alternate them. You're going to get some bunched up balls, no matter what you do. Just stick with the World STandardized convention, and it should be fine.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AALW4BBJl3CCpA4DCYe3EFbe3FBrP4GEEP3HAMB3IAUe4JF Kf4KAtP3LDGg3MEMO4NCYB3OBal1PXFW@

Some people will make sure all the like color balls are touching.

Fred

FLICKit
02-02-2008, 05:33 AM
http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AALW4BBRm3CCpA4DDnQ3EFSe4FCYf3GBbP3HAMB3IBRm4JC hB3KEEO4LFCf3MCxe3NAMe4OBKP1PXFW@
I have found this to be a cool layout, with perfectly balanced ball placement!

Note: if you take a line from the 1 to the 8, through to the 14 ball. For each solid ball on 1 side of the line, there is a stripe on the other. And, there are 3 solids and stripes above the line, and vice versa.

EDIT: OK cornerman put in the same configuration... beat me by minutes... Except I matched the colors like he mentioned...

Whatcha doin up at this time o' mornin anyways?

JimS
02-02-2008, 06:22 AM
I thought that the 1 was to be on the point and then alternate all the way around. I don't KNOW... but that's what I'd been lead to believe was the BCA rule. I try to play by BCA rules because that's the only rule book I have.

Patrick Johnson
02-02-2008, 06:46 AM
enzo:
i have long wondered what actual rule books say.

JimS:
I thought that the 1 was to be on the point and then alternate all the way around. I don't KNOW... but that's what I'd been lead to believe was the BCA rule. I try to play by BCA rules because that's the only rule book I have.

It probably took longer to type those questions than it does to look the rules up online.

Click here (http://www.wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=rules) for:

World Pool-Billiards Association (WPA)
Pool Billiards - The Rules of Play
Effective 1/1/08

3.2 Eight Ball Rack
The fifteen object balls are racked as tightly as possible in a triangle, with the apex ball on the foot spot and the eight ball as the first ball that is directly below the apex ball. One from each group of seven will be on the two lower corners of the triangle. The other balls are placed in the triangle without purposeful or intentional pattern.

Click here (http://www.bca-pool.com/cgi/site/framegate.cgi?url=http://www.bca-pool.com/play/tournaments/rules/rls_gen.shtml&cat=p) for:

Billiards Congress of America (BCA)
WORLD STANDARDIZED RULES: 8-BALL
Effective January 1, 2006

4.3 RACKING THE BALLS
The balls are racked in a triangle at the foot of the table with the 8-ball in the center of the triangle, the first ball of the rack on the foot spot, a stripe ball in one corner of the rack and a solid ball in the other corner.

pj
chgo

memikey
02-02-2008, 07:24 AM
I thought that the 1 was to be on the point and then alternate all the way around. I don't KNOW... but that's what I'd been lead to believe was the BCA rule. I try to play by BCA rules because that's the only rule book I have.

Jim......in the first place there is no rule in WPA or BCA Rules which says that the 1 has to be the point ball. It can be any ball. The only racking requirements of both rules are (a) that the front ball is on the foot spot.... (b) that the 8 ball is in the centre and.... (c) that there is one ball of each group in the opposite corners.

Not quite sure exactly what you mean by "alternate all the way round":confused: If you mean "all the way round the outer sides of the triangle" you will find that even if you ignore the above WPA/BCA racking rule requirements and do as you suggest i.e. place the 1 on the point and "alternate all the way round" you would end up with 3 balls of the same group in all 3 corners.......and that doesn't seem to be very fair does it? Is that what you've been doing?:)

Can't think of anything else you might mean by "alternate all the way round" as presumably you are aware that it is quite simply physically impossible to rack the balls in such a way that all three rows making up the sides of the triangle and all four 'horizontal' rows consist entirely of alternate balls:D

olauzon
02-02-2008, 10:17 AM
Only players who have never played anything other than Friday nights or APA. Unfortunately, that's most players.

I rack pretty much the same way every time. I watch the stripes and solidsdown the right and left side and alternate them. You're going to get some bunched up balls, no matter what you do. Just stick with the World STandardized convention, and it should be fine.

Some people will make sure all the like color balls are touching.

Fred

how you and flickit rack is how i do it every time. i can't remember seeing it too often in bca either, so i confusedly asked.


There are ways to rack a 9 ball or 15 ball (rotation) rack, so that when you're opponent breaks, depending on their break....will cause a tough run out.

I can't think of ways in 8 ball, but I never really thought about it in 8 ball. Joe Tucker may know.

so, okinawason, does tucker explain in his book why this pattern would give a harder run out?

Snapshot9
02-02-2008, 11:02 AM
This will probably blow some minds, but I came up with this after the rule about have a solid on one corner and a stripe on the other corner came into being.

I only worry about the stripes.

9 in front (for luck)
3-7
10-8-12 (10-11 & 12-15 have to be ascending)
2-14-5-15 (14 there because I like it the least)
11-1-13-4-6 (13 in middle of last row to put bad luck behind)

Actually quite easy after you get used to it, just place the stripes in these particular spots. And a stripe and solid on each back corner.

Maniac
02-02-2008, 11:14 AM
I've always done it the same way Cornerman and FLICKit showed how they do it. It is about as diverse a rack as is possible. I always use a solid for the "spot" ball as it gives a better sight picture for aiming than a striped ball would (although this makes NO sense at all if I'm racking for an opponent, which I do fairly often :o ). It also fits into a legal rack as described by BCA/World Standardized Rules.

Maniac

JimS
02-02-2008, 11:41 AM
Jim......in the first place there is no rule in WPA or BCA Rules which says that the 1 has to be the point ball. It can be any ball. The only racking requirements of both rules are (a) that the front ball is on the foot spot.... (b) that the 8 ball is in the centre and.... (c) that there is one ball of each group in the opposite corners.

Not quite sure exactly what you mean by "alternate all the way round":confused: If you mean "all the way round the outer sides of the triangle" you will find that even if you ignore the above WPA/BCA racking rule requirements and do as you suggest i.e. place the 1 on the point and "alternate all the way round" you would end up with 3 balls of the same group in all 3 corners.......and that doesn't seem to be very fair does it? Is that what you've been doing?:)

Can't think of anything else you might mean by "alternate all the way round" as presumably you are aware that it is quite simply physically impossible to rack the balls in such a way that all three rows making up the sides of the triangle and all four 'horizontal' rows consist entirely of alternate balls:D

I was wrong... clearly.

Yeah.. I have always racked that way and come to think of it I believe I got that information clear back when I started playing in 56. That's the way I was taught and I somehow got the impression that the BCA book agreed . Haveing 3 solids on the corners never seemed fair but I never noticed it makeing much difference so I kept on doing what I'd been shown. Kind of stupid now that I think about it. :D .. not the first or last stupid thing from me.

Patrick Johnson
02-02-2008, 12:01 PM
Maniac:
I've always done it the same way Cornerman and FLICKit showed how they do it. It is about as diverse a rack as is possible. I always use a solid for the "spot" ball as it gives a better sight picture for aiming than a striped ball would (although this makes NO sense at all if I'm racking for an opponent, which I do fairly often ). It also fits into a legal rack as described by BCA/World Standardized Rules.

But it doesn't fit into the WPA's World Standardized Rules because of the "random" requirement:

"The other balls are placed in the triangle without purposeful or intentional pattern."

I like the fact that the WPA rule clearly says rack-fixing is illegal (i.e., racking to give your opponent a tough runout). But this rule can't really prevent that unless the racker makes it obvious, and it has the unintended side effect of making it illegal to purposely make the rack as impartial as possible (i.e., alternating stripes/solids).

I think maybe the only way to ensure the fairest possible 8-ball rack and prevent rack-stacking is to specify the locations of the stripes and solids. Specifying ball locations in a 9-ball rack is trickier: if you specify the location of each numbered ball you make it possible to predict where the 2 ball will end up and force everybody to break the same way to get a shot at it.

pj
chgo

memikey
02-02-2008, 12:08 PM
http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AALW4BBRm3CCpA4DDnQ3EFSe4FCYf3GBbP3HAMB3IBRm4JC hB3KEEO4LFCf3MCxe3NAMe4OBKP1PXFW@
I have found this to be a cool layout, with perfectly balanced ball placement!

Note: if you take a line from the 1 to the 8, through to the 14 ball. For each solid ball on 1 side of the line, there is a stripe on the other. And, there are 3 solids and stripes above the line, and vice versa.

EDIT: OK cornerman put in the same configuration... beat me by minutes... Except I matched the colors like he mentioned...

Whatcha doin up at this time o' mornin anyways?

Just for general interest, if you substitute red and yellow for stripes and spots the above ball arrangement is actually the way the balls are racked for "Blackball Rules" which is the 8 ball played in many countries on Uk style smaller tables/balls.There is no choice in the matter, they have to be racked in that way. The only difference is that the 8 ball is on the foot spot instead of the point ball, thus moving the whole rack further up the table.

There is also another form of popular rules known as "World Rules" for the type of 8 ball played on such equipment, especially in Uk and Australia. They use a similar compulsory arrangement of the reds/yellows for the rack.

Vahmurka
02-02-2008, 03:01 PM
If we talk about patterns of 8-ball racking, I've been taught th following by my instructor. I like it very much because it is the better way to get a fair spread of balls, you rarely would end up with several balls of one group make a cluster with such pattern.
Okay, any patterns are restricted by official rules but IMO it's better to use one than place them randomly and get problems.

Here is how it works:
take a stripe and make it an apex ball.
Then take two different, stripe and solid, and put them in to make a second row.
Continue forming sides of the triangle with placing stripe after solid and vice versa.
Put an 8 in the middle.
In a row of 4 balls, place a solid adjacent to a solid and a stripe adjacent to another stripe (you'll know the reason for it later).
Form last row of balls placing in the middle of it the same ball which is an apex, i.e. stripe.

Now take a look at the mini-triangles: the magic of this patterns is that inside each of them there are 3 stripes to be found. No more, no less. And 3 solids (count 8 as a solid here). The rack disperses pretty fair, balls are placed randomly around the table.
You can do the same pattern starting with solid ball as an apex - that way the mini-triangles will still count 3 stripes-3 solids (but now 8 acts as a stripe;)).
Hope you like it.

Secaucus Fats
02-02-2008, 03:57 PM
FWIW I rack the same as Cornerman.

I know of a good detective who may help solve the secret of randomness...

enzo
02-02-2008, 06:02 PM
It probably took longer to type those questions than it does to look the rules up online.

Click here (http://www.wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=rules) for:

World Pool-Billiards Association (WPA)
Pool Billiards - The Rules of Play
Effective 1/1/08

3.2 Eight Ball Rack
The fifteen object balls are racked as tightly as possible in a triangle, with the apex ball on the foot spot and the eight ball as the first ball that is directly below the apex ball. One from each group of seven will be on the two lower corners of the triangle. The other balls are placed in the triangle without purposeful or intentional pattern.

Click here (http://www.bca-pool.com/cgi/site/framegate.cgi?url=http://www.bca-pool.com/play/tournaments/rules/rls_gen.shtml&cat=p) for:

Billiards Congress of America (BCA)
WORLD STANDARDIZED RULES: 8-BALL
Effective January 1, 2006

4.3 RACKING THE BALLS
The balls are racked in a triangle at the foot of the table with the 8-ball in the center of the triangle, the first ball of the rack on the foot spot, a stripe ball in one corner of the rack and a solid ball in the other corner.

pj
chgo

wow, official rules that actually make sense, how refreshing. funny thing is, i have been racking them following those rules for 10 years and i cant tell you how many people think im cheating them when i do it.

it seems the worse the player the more they think some pattern in an 8 ball rack is meaningful.

edit: the hard part is now convincing bangers you are giving them perfectly fine racking orders...... actual, not hard.... more like impossible.

Hal
02-02-2008, 08:47 PM
This is how I rack. easy-e, you got the 8. :D