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View Full Version : What do you guys consider slow play?


Caromsoft
02-02-2008, 12:27 AM
I have been following the thread about annoying aspects of the game and I see a lot of people complain about slow play. I have been trying to take my time lately before getting down on the ball to study the table and choose my shot. I take about the same time as Allison Fisher or Karen Corr before they shoot, just as an example. That is not slow play, right? I assume slow play is much, much longer than that.

olauzon
02-02-2008, 01:02 AM
I have been following the thread about annoying aspects of the game and I see a lot of people complain about slow play. I have been trying to take my time lately before getting down on the ball to study the table and choose my shot. I take about the same time as Allison Fisher or Karen Corr before they shoot, just as an example. That is not slow play, right? I assume slow play is much, much longer than that.

keep doing it. as you get better with reading patterns and seeing angles (karooms, break outs and what not) you will likely shorten your time. people who don't take their time often get screwed on the out or won't see the dead safety, or get shit lucky w/o even realizing it. good players see patterns easier (by having gone through taking time) i.e, playing shortstop at least

AZE
02-02-2008, 02:24 AM
Flopping quads and checking.

okinawa77
02-02-2008, 02:44 AM
Caromsoft,

If you are only taking as much time as the pros on TV, than that is not too slow...at all. They are on a shot clock.

I have seen some league players take an average of 3 minutes per shot. Technically, they are is time guideline, but if it takes my opponent a long time to shoot, then so be it. I would rather my opponent play their best, than to rush them to shoot. But that is just me. I have come across other players that won't stand for it. I can understand taking a long time on a difficult shot, but if there is an easy out....it shouldn't take very long to shoot. For me, when I am playing a very slow player, I just think to myself how happy I am to be at the pool hall, and not at work.

I had a guy in league that took forever to shoot. My first 8 ball match race to 5 took about 1 hour and 45 minutes, and that was with me beating him 5 to 3. After the match, he was recalling shots that I didn't even remember. Shots that I hooked him real good on, and shots that I made that impressed him. I found out later why it takes him so long to shoot. Apparently, there is something wrong with his eyes, and he can't shoot straight shots without using somekind of side english. Really weird...but I guess he has a lot of little adjustments for each shot. I don't mind playing him because he is one of the best players in our league.

Some people are patient, and some are impatient. That's just the way it is. I think 30 seconds per shot is a reasonable amount of time. For difficult shots, maybe 60-90 seconds....depending on the difficulty.
-my 2 cents

softshot
02-02-2008, 02:53 AM
But why may i ask do you break the rules?Dont you know you have to rack the 1 ball in front for 9 ball and some other games?You a league player? :confused: :cool:

9-ball? who plays 9-ball anymore

I play an 8-ball league the only racking requirements are 8 ball in the middle and a stripe on one bottom corner and a solid on the other.

but you... I'll play you 9 ball all day long as long as I can place whatever ball I want on the headspot .... the fact that you jumped at this tells me that the one minor variation could be worth as much as two balls in my favor.

lets play

softshot
02-02-2008, 02:56 AM
So if I complain about you shooting too fast....will you start shooting faster?;)

no :D if you complain about me shooting to fast I will drop down to evolution speed and use a whole chalk on every shot :D

that will shut you up :D

okinawa77
02-02-2008, 03:03 AM
no :D if you complain about me shooting to fast I will drop down to evolution speed and use a whole chalk on every shot :D

that will shut you up :D

I think I would like to play you. You seem like you would be very entertaining.:)

Fast Lenny
02-02-2008, 03:26 AM
9-ball? who plays 9-ball anymore

I play an 8-ball league the only racking requirements are 8 ball in the middle and a stripe on one bottom corner and a solid on the other.

but you... I'll play you 9 ball all day long as long as I can place whatever ball I want on the headspot .... the fact that you jumped at this tells me that the one minor variation could be worth as much as two balls in my favor.

lets play
I knew that you had to be a league player,i fortunately am not.There is a reason in nine ball that the one is racked in front so you can control your break and make a ball and get out,also the reason the 9 ball is in the middle so it doesnt go in on the snap.Yeah i jumped at your unsportsmanlike behavior,sure we can play 9 ball and you can rack them anyway you like and we will play rack your own.This game will never come off as we arent even in the same state but thanks for barking. :rolleyes:

okinawa77
02-02-2008, 03:36 AM
Fast Lenny,

Funny clip.

Karate kid vs. Spartan rooster

Fast Lenny
02-02-2008, 03:48 AM
Fast Lenny,

Funny clip.

Karate kid vs. Spartan rooster
Thanks,that rooster has heart! :D

hilla_hilla
02-02-2008, 04:21 AM
Mike Defino, Arturo Rivera = Slow play:mad:

DO NOT do that!!!

FLICKit
02-02-2008, 04:23 AM
I here what you saying about playing your speed. I agree with that 100%, but playing in a spiteful way...IMHO....is not what this game should be about.
Sometimes it depends on what venue you're playing and what stakes are involved. If one is seeking that competitive edge, your version of spiteful is another person's version of competitive. As has already been stated be careful not to let your quirks be what wins the game. And don't expect everyone to abide by your quirks. Or else, you're gonna have to be much more selective in who you play.

If someone else is being excessive, then it depends on the venue that you play. If it's tournaments or leagues then their should be guidelines on play. General timeline of less than some range of 45-60 seconds per shot should be sufficient on most average shots. With some allowance for more time for some difficult or highly key shots that may or may not come up.

But if you're just playing casually for fun, then I agree with you that playing in a spiteful way is not what the game should be about...

FLICKit
02-02-2008, 04:35 AM
Another example of reasons for patience...

I know at least 1 guy who evidently used to be a strong player, but had a stroke. As a result his time per shot far exceeds 1 minute. But given that he's not intentionally being spiteful, he just loves to play the game like everyone else... and considering that everyone's just regular players, superstars only in their own minds... It's overall usually no big deal. A good tournament director should usually be able to accomodate such players without excessive delay and thus make the game accessible for a wider range of players.

Johnnyt
02-02-2008, 04:48 AM
Slow play has always drove me up a wall. There are three kinds of slow players in my book. The one I won't play again is the one who does it to shark you. Number two is the guy that is unsure of what to do when he gets to the table. He walks around the table twice, gets down on the shot, only to get back up and walk around the table again. It's like he knows he's going to miss and is affraid to pull the trigger. I want to yell out "it's a straight in shot, shoot it in and your right there for the nine for gods sake". The third type has the same long pre-shot routine weather it's a hanger or a three rail kick for the game. In 9-ball I would make a 35 sec. clock with one extenion a game. Johnnyt

FLICKit
02-02-2008, 05:14 AM
Slow play has always drove me up a wall. There are three kinds of slow players in my book. The one I won't play again is the one who does it to shark you. Number two is the guy that is unsure of what to do when he gets to the table. He walks around the table twice, gets down on the shot, only to get back up and walk around the table again. It's like he knows he's going to miss and is affraid to pull the trigger. I want to yell out "it's a straight in shot, shoot it in and your right there for the nine for gods sake". The third type has the same long pre-shot routine weather it's a hanger or a three rail kick for the game. In 9-ball I would make a 35 sec. clock with one extenion a game. Johnnyt
Good representation of the 3 variations...

35 sec with 1 extension per game might be considered a bit extreme, even for some pro events. Personally, I always hate to see 2 pros battle it out in a great back and forth competitive event. Only to have it upstaged and decided by a boneheaded act due to the time clock.

This especially rears it's ugly head when a key safety battle ensues, whereby both players use their single extensions to execute an intricate safety play. Then the next player is unable to consider any alternative options and thus is relegated to shooting at it like any C level player or worse.

As opposed to the alternative, where the 2 pros can follow 1 great safety with another... creating a chain of awesome shots... Simply by allowing the two pros ample time to think, plan, and execute in those rare instances where it's needed. Especially when it's a match critical situation i.e. hill/hill.

Without taking things to the extreme, of course. There has to be a good balance.

At hill/hill, personally I'd prefer to see each player continually have an extension for every safety play shot, allowing the true master to be the victor... Knowing that when it's a normal offensive shot, the pros are well trained to maintain a rhythm under (30-60) seconds per shot.

Shortside K
02-02-2008, 05:58 AM
9-ball? who plays 9-ball anymore

I play an 8-ball league the only racking requirements are 8 ball in the middle and a stripe on one bottom corner and a solid on the other.

but you... I'll play you 9 ball all day long as long as I can place whatever ball I want on the headspot .... the fact that you jumped at this tells me that the one minor variation could be worth as much as two balls in my favor.

lets play


Usually, those that choose 8 ball over 9 ball do so because they aren't very good at 9 ball. They don't have the stroke/shots required to play good 9 ball/10ball.

JimS
02-02-2008, 06:15 AM
One of my pool friends is very experienced and very quick to see the layout and the next move.... I am neither. It takes me a while to figure out the pattern and the next move. I get criticized frequently, by him, for being "slow". My usual response is a sincere F you.

I shoot as soon as I've figured out my next shot. If playing pool with me is upsetting to you then don't play pool with me... ADIOS!

Mike_Mason
02-02-2008, 07:24 AM
"...He still took his time, though, and once, after a break shot, he was staring at the table, his hands on the top of his cue, his chin resting in his hands. His eyes closed. I had to ask him if he was sleeping. He said no, he was thinking."

This happened to me in real life...the man was running some balls...slow as molasses...made a break shot...and fell asleep!! I swear.

Mike

Jay T
02-02-2008, 08:04 AM
If you want to see slow play, you should have watched Karen Core play One Pocket at the DCC. I finally had to go find another match to watch. I am amazed that she can keep that frown on her face for that length of time.

Thunderball
02-02-2008, 08:15 AM
Mike...thats some pretty funny shayt right there lol.

Back we first started league play (many moons) we were in the finals to go to the cities for the first time.The other team was as new as we were (all players on both teams given this situation) so we were deliberate and focused,as were they.

But it still moved just a little bit slower the regular play,which was fine.

Then it got to match 4.Holy freakin bejebus was this guy hammered.Ruined,toast,spent,smashed and through.,,,But damit,he was focused lol.

I'd say each shot took about two minutes...some maybe longer.really....it was paint drying times 3.

We don't do much complianing,never have and never will...but after about an hour we started "approaching" the other team and asking ...after a while "pleading".... that this dude at least pick it up some.They understood and even talked to him about...many times.Nothin...hell,best I can tell it slowed him down lol.

We won match number 5 to win it all 3/2 (super slow motion,ultra hammered guy won number 4 btw),but to keep this in pespective the teams started at 7 pm and finished at 230 am.

We have played 5 matches many times on any given league night that would fit inside this one guys match for the night.
It was unbearably slow.

CocoboloCowboy
02-02-2008, 08:26 AM
Anything over 45 Second per shot is allowed under BCA RULES.http://www.geocities.com/cocobolocowboy/beatdeadhorse.gif

Craig Fales
02-02-2008, 08:32 AM
I have been following the thread about annoying aspects of the game and I see a lot of people complain about slow play. I have been trying to take my time lately before getting down on the ball to study the table and choose my shot. I take about the same time as Allison Fisher or Karen Corr before they shoot, just as an example. That is not slow play, right? I assume slow play is much, much longer than that.

If you spend around 30~45 seconds on a shot I'd not consider that slow play...

Peer
02-02-2008, 10:37 AM
What I consider slow play? Well, when a 14.1 game takes 4 hours.

Oh god do I hate straight pool... especially when I'm up against a dreadful slow player.

-- peer

ShootingArts
02-02-2008, 10:59 AM
Jay,

Sent you a PM, just a question or two.

Hu



If you want to see slow play, you should have watched Karen Core play One Pocket at the DCC. I finally had to go find another match to watch. I am amazed that she can keep that frown on her face for that length of time.

mantis99
02-02-2008, 11:36 AM
They are playing with a 30 second shot clock, so it would be hard to call what they do slow play, but I don't think it would need to be "much much slower" to be annoyingly slow.

If you have a hard shot, it is reasonable to take your time to really figure it out, but if you need over 30-45 seconds on every shot, it will become annoying to play you. I would consider someone who takes over that on every shot a slow player. People who take more than a minute per shot are ridiculously slow in my opinion.

poolmouse
02-02-2008, 07:01 PM
What I consider slow play? Well, when a 14.1 game takes 4 hours.

Oh god do I hate straight pool... especially when I'm up against a dreadful slow player.

-- peer

Two decent straight pool players can complete a 150 point game within an hour. If it's a tight match it may go a bit over. Four hours?! I wouldn't go near anyone who shoots that slow. Unfortunately the area leagues and tourneys are plagued with people who play slow to give themselves a better chance of winning by throwing their opponent off. It's a way to compensate for a lack of skill or experience.

Poolmouse

Frankenstroke
02-02-2008, 07:22 PM
Is there any other sport where a player can take 15 minutes before putting the ball (puck, shuttlecock,arrow, bullet, etc.)in play?

Fast Lenny
02-02-2008, 09:35 PM
Two decent straight pool players can complete a 150 point game within an hour. If it's a tight match it may go a bit over. Four hours?! I wouldn't go near anyone who shoots that slow. Unfortunately the area leagues and tourneys are plagued with people who play slow to give themselves a better chance of winning by throwing their opponent off. It's a way to compensate for a lack of skill or experience.

Poolmouse
Well said and very unsportmanlike. :cool:

dabarbr
02-02-2008, 11:38 PM
The only people that complain about slow play are the ones that are losing.

Klopek
02-03-2008, 01:24 AM
0000000000

softshot
02-03-2008, 02:14 AM
Im glad i hit the nail on the head.If you enjoy league then thats fine,i know there are alot of league players on here,but it doesnt just do it for me.The reasons why are that the competition is fairly weak,i would say 90-95% of the players are all weak C players and thats ok they are learning but yet some of them have been playing for 30-40 years.

I also dont like the etiquette,they will stand around the table while you shoot sometimes in front of the pocket you shooting at,hooting and hollering at times instead of being quiet,sometimes its the whole team doing this. :(

The knowledge of pool can be sickening when you can have some teams who together as a whole could not equal the ability and pool IQ of most tournament players/money players. :p

I dont like the fact that they get ripped off by their leagues money wise,its a good business for whoever has that area and the players seem to be shortchanged very often. :mad:

Thinking that its real pool playing on some of the equipment in those dingy bars is frankly a joke and most serious players cant stand that type of equipment where it balances things out,one of the funniest things i heard from a league player was playing the rolls of the tablemi had to laugh,why should you have to?I think alot of the leagues if they were smart would make bar owners have equipment level and up to par,but what do alot of them care,just make money of the league players who alot of them dont know the difference whether its good equipment or bad anyway. :cool:

Its kiddy pool,if you put alot of these guys on the big table they are lost,i have had countless 7s from the APA and whatnot beat their chest and then play on a 9 footer saying there is no difference and they are pulled apart,the flaws and position and safety play starts showing up and they are toast. :D

Next time your at league ask around who the best player is in pool right now and also deceased and see the comments you get,you will hear alot of Minnesota Fats. ;)

I cant say i have anything against league play but i just dont like the sandbagging,bad equipment,bad ediquette,being ripped off by the league owner,and unsportmanlike conduct either,plus playing for Vegas doesnt do anything for me either because i live close enough to drive. :p

As for your comment saying F U to me it shows exactly the attitude im talking about,you saying you will do whatever bothers your opponent is also something that is undesireable.You do that slow playing in a money match then you will have less people playing you,nothing wrong with taking your time but being slow as a snail to irk your opponent is uncalled for.If you do make it out to AZ then we will play for certain and you can take all the time you like,smoke a cig,go to the bathroom,do a shot i dont care,i dont rattle that easy,i have already played coming up with the slowest player in NY!Im very patient and calm,but when i get to the table i wont be playing slow,it will be quick and painless,you will think i raked the balls in the pocktet. ;)

Sorry if i offended any of the league players out there but im sure those of you who are league players and knowledgeable know what im talking about,you fall in the 5-10% im speaking of. :)

some leagues may be like that. I do know what your talking about however some leagues are done right. The one I play in is done right

BTW.. its the same league that produced SVB the C&N sales VNEA league it spreads from eastern South Dakota through southern Minnesota, northern Iowa and parts of western Wisconsin.

They do it in what I consider to be the right way. there are 4 leagues

Ambassadors, Senators, Commanders, and Presidents. Presidents being the Best. you pay $3-$5 ( depending on the league) plus quarters and you are paid back 10 cents per point you score. in the lower leagues a perfect score is 30 in Presidents a perfect score is 50. (3 games vs 5 games) Bottom line if you win all your games you get all your money back.

The lower 2 leagues are the type you refer to drunk buddies shooting pool for a night away from home its more about a good time than it is about shooting pool.

In the top two leagues its a different story. EVERYONE is a threat to run out. and they are there to shoot, not to drink.

The company that sponsors the league owns all the tables. and they drop in weekly to re level the tables and of course drain the quarters. they are the best maintained bar boxes you will find.

The "Bar Bangers" in my neck of the woods have a stroke.

and just to throw this in the mix SVB competed recently in Fairbault against the local "League Bangers" and didn't place in the top 12. and that was late last year when he was the "World Beater"

I'm just saying...

Fatboy
02-03-2008, 03:09 AM
Flopping quads and checking.


LOL that was funny,

Mr. Wilson
02-03-2008, 06:43 AM
Now that I have had to remove half a dozen posts for language, Softshot....

see ya in 2 weeks.

berlowmj
02-03-2008, 06:44 AM
"...He still took his time, though, and once, after a break shot, he was staring at the table, his hands on the top of his cue, his chin resting in his hands. His eyes closed. I had to ask him if he was sleeping. He said no, he was thinking."

This happened to me in real life...the man was running some balls...slow as molasses...made a break shot...and fell asleep!! I swear.

Mike

Sounds like a case of sleep apnea. People who stop to watch the ball game, talk to friends, engage in mating rituals with every passing bimbo... are the real culprits.

halhoule
02-14-2008, 01:11 AM
Do You Guys Never Tire About Cues And Other Pool Drool.

Must Be No Time To Really Play Advanced Pool.

Or Is It Too Much Trouble To Learn Efren And Busta Aiming System.

What A Waste Of A Great Game.

Knitting Is On The Horizon I Believe.

Hal Houle

Hail Mary Shot
02-14-2008, 01:58 AM
SLOW PLAY means not gettting it up in time.

kcpoolfan
02-14-2008, 09:46 AM
hey if you had to carry karen's chest around the table u might play a little slower too

Snapshot9
02-14-2008, 10:51 AM
kind of like a dripping shower when trying to go to asleep at 2 in the morning, or a nagging woman that just will not shut up, but mostly

envisioning a Dentist with a drill, whirl ... whilrl, saying, 'This is going to hurt some, so brace yourself, but the drill takes forever to get to your teeth'.

Kind of like that!!!! :D :D :D

Being the dirty ole man I am, I always have stray thoughts about the women pros, well some of them anyway, and wonder if they have sex like their preset routine and stroke go!!!! :eek:

catscradle
02-14-2008, 11:58 AM
I have been following the thread about annoying aspects of the game and I see a lot of people complain about slow play. I have been trying to take my time lately before getting down on the ball to study the table and choose my shot. I take about the same time as Allison Fisher or Karen Corr before they shoot, just as an example. That is not slow play, right? I assume slow play is much, much longer than that.

As far as I'm concerned time spent in the actual process of shooting isn't slow play, no matter how long it takes. It is the time between shots when the shot is so obvious it hurts, yet your opponent studies and studies and studies the layout. Ralf Souquet comes to mind, that is slow play. I don't think Allison & Karen take a lot of time, they take a reasonable amount of time. Generally I find good players might take a bit of time before their first shot, but once they start it is just one shot after another unless they get a bad roll or screw up.