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Flex
02-02-2008, 08:55 PM
When playing Rotation, it sometimes happens that a ball is made and the cue ball scratches. What then happens is the ball that was pocketed is placed on the foot spot and cue ball is taken in hand behind the head string.

However, it can happen that after this occurs, and the cue ball is taken in hand behind the head string, that the lowest numbered ball on the table is also in the kitchen.

So then, the situation can arise where the illegally pocketed ball or balls are spotted on the foot spot, and the player with ball in hand behind the headstring has the option of having the lowest numbered ball spotted, or not spotted. If there are other object balls to be spotted, is there any order in which spotted balls are put up? Does the lowest numbered ball automatically go on the foot spot?

What's the rule on this? Or are there variations on the rules on this?

Flex

stick8
02-02-2008, 09:22 PM
When playing Rotation, it sometimes happens that a ball is made and the cue ball scratches. What then happens is the ball that was pocketed is placed on the foot spot and cue ball is taken in hand behind the head string.

However, it can happen that after this occurs, and the cue ball is taken in hand behind the head string, that the lowest numbered ball on the table is also in the kitchen.

So then, the situation can arise where the illegally pocketed ball or balls are spotted on the foot spot, and the player with ball in hand behind the headstring has the option of having the lowest numbered ball spotted, or not spotted. If there are other object balls to be spotted, is there any order in which spotted balls are put up? Does the lowest numbered ball automatically go on the foot spot?

What's the rule on this? Or are there variations on the rules on this?

Flex THe answer is yes the lowest # ball is spotted first in line!!!:D :D :D

BlowFish
02-02-2008, 09:44 PM
THe answer is yes the lowest # ball is spotted first in line!!!:D :D :D

Yes, absolutely correct.

JoeyInCali
02-02-2008, 09:45 PM
Depends if you are Filipino or not. :)

BlowFish
02-02-2008, 10:07 PM
Depends if you are Filipino or not. :)

You crack me up Joey. :eek:

JoeyInCali
02-03-2008, 12:09 AM
You crack me up Joey. :eek:
"spot, spot, spot mo"

Flex
02-03-2008, 04:05 AM
THe answer is yes the lowest # ball is spotted first in line!!!:D :D :D

Which set of rules says that?

JimS
02-03-2008, 04:57 AM
http://www.bca-pool.com/cgi/site/framegate.cgi?url=http://www.bca-pool.com/play/tournaments/rules/rls_gen.shtml&cat=p

http://www.pool-table-rules.com/bca8ball.php

http://www.wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=rules

When I posted about 8 ball racking rules yesterday Patrick was nice enough to give the link to the exact rule in question with the comment that I could have looked it up quicker than asking the question.

He's an enabler. I'll just give you the link. :D

Flex
02-03-2008, 06:05 AM
http://www.bca-pool.com/cgi/site/framegate.cgi?url=http://www.bca-pool.com/play/tournaments/rules/rls_gen.shtml&cat=p

http://www.pool-table-rules.com/bca8ball.php

http://www.wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=rules

When I posted about 8 ball racking rules yesterday Patrick was nice enough to give the link to the exact rule in question with the comment that I could have looked it up quicker than asking the question.

He's an enabler. I'll just give you the link. :D

Thanks. I had already checked to see if there was a specific rule for Rotation bearing on my question and didn't find any, anyplace, which is why I asked it in the first place. And I have found there are differences of opinion regarding the specific question I asked. Thus my query here.

I suppose the rule from the BCA website is clear enough in this case.

Here it is:

3.32 SPOTTING BALLS
When specific game rules call for spotting balls, they shall be replaced on the table on the long string after the stroke is complete. A single ball is placed on the foot spot; if more than one ball is to be spotted, they are placed on the long string in ascending numerical order, beginning on the foot spot and advancing toward the foot rail. When balls on or near the foot spot or long string interfere with the spotting of balls, the balls to be spotted are placed on the extension of the long string ?in front? of the foot spot (between the foot spot and the center spot), as near as possible to the foot spot and in the same numerical order as if they were spotted ?behind? the foot spot (lowest numbered ball closest to the foot spot).


What I wondered about is this: Obviously balls that go down on a scratch are spotted, automatically, on the foot string as noted above. However, whether the lowest numbered ball which may be in the kitchen is actually spotted is the choice of the player. It could well be that leaving the ball in the kitchen where it lies, say as a hanger, would be to his advantage, or perhaps a dead combo for a more valuable ball could be present. Obviously the cue ball would need to cross the headstring before contacting the ball in the kitchen. Thus the situation could arise where the downed balls are spotted, and the player studies the situation and decides not to spot the lowest ball. Imagine some time goes by with the table set up, spotted balls in place. He then decides he wants to spot the lowest numbered ball. Voila, the other balls are moved to make way for the lowest ball.

Perhaps there is a specific rule for the game of Rotation which bears on my question. If anyone knows of one, please let us know.

Flex

Patrick Johnson
02-03-2008, 09:04 AM
http://www.bca-pool.com/cgi/site/framegate.cgi?url=http://www.bca-pool.com/play/tournaments/rules/rls_gen.shtml&cat=p

http://www.pool-table-rules.com/bca8ball.php

http://www.wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=rules

When I posted about 8 ball racking rules yesterday Patrick was nice enough to give the link to the exact rule in question with the comment that I could have looked it up quicker than asking the question.

He's an enabler. I'll just give you the link. :D

What I failed to realize was that by asking on the forum you made it possible for other AZBers to learn the rule (and the links). My bad.

Wouldn't it be helpful to have a sticky with links to the main rule sets?

pj
chgo

JimS
02-03-2008, 12:13 PM
What I failed to realize was that by asking on the forum you made it possible for other AZBers to learn the rule (and the links). My bad.

Wouldn't it be helpful to have a sticky with links to the main rule sets?

pj
chgo

I made it my own personal sticky! The links are in my favorites/bookmarks now. Thanks for the links.
But .... yeah ... I would think that would/could/should be a most useful sticky.

JoeyInCali
02-03-2008, 12:34 PM
Thanks. I had already checked to see if there was a specific rule for Rotation bearing on my question and didn't find any, anyplace, which is why I asked it in the first place. And I have found there are differences of opinion regarding the specific question I asked. Thus my query here.

I suppose the rule from the BCA website is clear enough in this case.

Here it is:

3.32 SPOTTING BALLS
When specific game rules call for spotting balls, they shall be replaced on the table on the long string after the stroke is complete. A single ball is placed on the foot spot; if more than one ball is to be spotted, they are placed on the long string in ascending numerical order, beginning on the foot spot and advancing toward the foot rail. When balls on or near the foot spot or long string interfere with the spotting of balls, the balls to be spotted are placed on the extension of the long string ?in front? of the foot spot (between the foot spot and the center spot), as near as possible to the foot spot and in the same numerical order as if they were spotted ?behind? the foot spot (lowest numbered ball closest to the foot spot).


What I wondered about is this: Obviously balls that go down on a scratch are spotted, automatically, on the foot string as noted above. However, whether the lowest numbered ball which may be in the kitchen is actually spotted is the choice of the player. It could well be that leaving the ball in the kitchen where it lies, say as a hanger, would be to his advantage, or perhaps a dead combo for a more valuable ball could be present. Obviously the cue ball would need to cross the headstring before contacting the ball in the kitchen. Thus the situation could arise where the downed balls are spotted, and the player studies the situation and decides not to spot the lowest ball. Imagine some time goes by with the table set up, spotted balls in place. He then decides he wants to spot the lowest numbered ball. Voila, the other balls are moved to make way for the lowest ball.

Perhaps there is a specific rule for the game of Rotation which bears on my question. If anyone knows of one, please let us know.

Flex
Well, rotation is one game where the rules can be exploited sometimes.
Lowest numbered ball in the kitchen and you have no shot?
Shoot another ball in the hole and place the cueball tough or scratch it.
Now, your opponent will be shooting at 2 balls on the spot.

Flex
02-03-2008, 10:23 PM
Well, rotation is one game where the rules can be exploited sometimes.
Lowest numbered ball in the kitchen and you have no shot?
Shoot another ball in the hole and place the cueball tough or scratch it.
Now, your opponent will be shooting at 2 balls on the spot.

Very creative... Thanks.

Flex

JoeyInCali
02-03-2008, 10:49 PM
Very creative... Thanks.

Flex
IN the Philippines if you do that, you might end up with a butterfly knife somewhere in your back.:D
Also, there there is not shoot again option.
IF you foul, the incoming shooter can shoot it as it lays or spot the ob.

Patrick Johnson
02-04-2008, 07:02 AM
He then decides he wants to spot the lowest numbered ball. Voila, the other balls are moved to make way for the lowest ball.

I don't believe any game allows moving balls already spotted to make room at the front of the line for a lower numbered ball - the rule means if you're spotting more than one ball at once you place the ones you're spotting now in numerical order.

pj
chgo

Flex
02-04-2008, 07:17 AM
I don't believe any game allows moving balls already spotted to make room at the front of the line for a lower numbered ball - the rule means if you're spotting more than one ball at once you place the ones you're spotting now in numerical order.

pj
chgo

So, the way to avoid a problem is to decide ahead of time, before actually spotting the balls, whether the lowest numbered ball in the kitchen will be spotted or not. And then to spot them all at the same time. Makes sense to me.

Thanks.

Flex

Patrick Johnson
02-04-2008, 11:19 AM
So, the way to avoid a problem is to decide ahead of time, before actually spotting the balls, whether the lowest numbered ball in the kitchen will be spotted or not. And then to spot them all at the same time. Makes sense to me.

Thanks.

Flex
When the lowest numbered ball in the kitchen is to be spotted, you spot only that ball. If multiple balls are to be spotted, it's for some other reason.

pj
chgo

Flex
02-05-2008, 01:36 AM
When the lowest numbered ball in the kitchen is to be spotted, you spot only that ball. If multiple balls are to be spotted, it's for some other reason.

pj
chgo


It has happened that someone makes a ball or balls and scratches, and the lowest numbered ball is in the kitchen. That's the situation I've asked about in this thread.

Flex

Patrick Johnson
02-05-2008, 07:36 AM
It has happened that someone makes a ball or balls and scratches, and the lowest numbered ball is in the kitchen. That's the situation I've asked about in this thread.

Flex

OK, but then what does "spot them all at the same time" mean? That's the comment I was responding to.

pj
chgo

Flex
02-05-2008, 09:26 AM
OK, but then what does "spot them all at the same time" mean? That's the comment I was responding to.

pj
chgo

Spot them at the same time would mean to physically spot them one after the other in ascending numerical order, so for instance, if two other object balls went into pockets on a scratch and the lowest numbered ball is in the kitchen, take all three balls at the same time and first, spot the lowest numbered ball, then the next higher numbered ball, and then the third.

Finally, take ball in hand in the kitchen and continue to play.

Flex

Patrick Johnson
02-05-2008, 02:11 PM
Spot them at the same time would mean to physically spot them one after the other in ascending numerical order, so for instance, if two other object balls went into pockets on a scratch and the lowest numbered ball is in the kitchen, take all three balls at the same time and first, spot the lowest numbered ball, then the next higher numbered ball, and then the third.

Finally, take ball in hand in the kitchen and continue to play.

Flex

Oh, I get you now. Thanks. That's also the way I understand it.

pj
chgo