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Vinnie
02-04-2008, 11:49 AM
Gotta check out this video from the past. The game is called 10/20. It is a variation of straight pool in which you can score up to 10 points per inning/ 8 innings. This was a great idea. I would love to get a hold of the official rules for that game.

video link: (Crane vs. Covington)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7439107515878837032

Vinnie
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ugotactionTX
02-04-2008, 11:54 AM
I have a dvd with several matches. It's pretty cool. I too have tried to find
the "official" rules but no luck. I think the announcer goes over the rules on the matches I have. Not sure if there were additional rules not disscussed.
I like the game. other than being one where you have to constantly stay aware of the count, it seems pretty simple. I'd like to try it too!!

Scott Lee
02-04-2008, 04:15 PM
Ten-Twenty was orginally conceived by my first teacher and mentor, Frank Oliva. Frank was a many-time Chicago city champion, and his brother Nick, was a world champion, who happened to die of a massive heart attack, while in first place at one the Jansco's Stardust tournaments. Frank wanted to try to bring some excitement to pool on t.v., and knew there needed to be some kind of time constraints, so that you wouldn't get 'bored' watching players run a hundred balls. One of the other key points, was that this show was, I believe, the first time that 'pro pool' was played with any kind of time clock.

Ten-Twenty was produced and aired in Chicago, but never made it to national syndication...so it was locally aired, and ran for two years. Frank set up all the matches, and even Wanderone came on a time or two. Frank passed away in 1993, and I have no idea what happened to the episodes, or the rights. Obviously (thankfully) some of them are still floating around on the internet! Frank was an innovater, a master teacher, a memory expert, and an all-around good guy, who loved pool like all of us here. All he ever wanted was to help poolplayers find a way to make legitimate money at pool, without having to resort to gambling. He was the reason I began teaching, in the late 70's, and was most proud of me when I became part of the BCA instructor program! After his death, I mentored his Oliva Women's League for several years, which was then, and still is, the longest continuously running pool league, playing their 40th straight year last year!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Vinnie
02-04-2008, 05:31 PM
Scott,

Thanks for the great story! This format would be great for an Action Challenge. Maybe start with 10 great players and offer bonus money for best score and/or perfect score. Do you have a copy of the original rules?

Vinnie

Scott Lee
02-04-2008, 07:31 PM
Vinnie...Sadly, I do not have a copy of the rules. Seems like, though, after viewing the matches in the video, that you can surmise most, if not all, of them. IIRC, Frank did this in the late 50's, before Johnston City or The Hustler, and although he told me about it, he never offered a copy of the rules, or introduced the game to me. After his teaching, I became a true lover of 14.1, and played it a lot in my early years. I used to play in a weekly straight pool tournament, at Marie's Golden Cue, on Montrose, in Chicago, after my lesson with Frank. It was handicapped, and anyone could win. Beginners went to 20, and the pros like Dallas West went to 150. If you got to your number first, you moved ahead in the bracket. I started out at 20, but within 2 yrs, was rated at 90-100. Almost all of the top players in Chicago and the surrounding area played in these tournaments...a $10 entry fee and 40-60 players every week! This was before Chris Crisman even opened his room on Milwaukee.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

whitey2
02-04-2008, 07:34 PM
At the end of the show, they used to offer an official
rule book for 35 cents, so there must be some floating
around somewhere.

DougT
02-04-2008, 08:31 PM
At the end of the show, they used to offer an official
rule book for 35 cents, so there must be some floating
around somewhere.

http://www.3cushion.com/On%20Line%20Collection/Bibliography.htm

from a collection, comes this description

Oliva, Frank & Joe Wilson. Mid 1900s. ?Ten-Twenty? A Pocket Billiards Game. Chicago: Frank Oliva & Joe Wilson. This is the game that inspired the television series of this game between the best players in the world in the mid 1900s. Booklet in near mint condition and bound in green felt! (sold- ref#215567)

I think you'll at least get the rules, if not a copy of the book here

Doug

Vinnie
02-04-2008, 08:40 PM
Perhaps we can start by using the current official rules of the WPA for 14.1 and then go from there. According to the video, each match consisted of 8 innings of play. Each player could score up to 10 points each per inning. In the 8th inning, if a player scored 10 points, he could continue shooting for an extra 20 points. A perfect match score would be 100 points. Fouls would cost 1 point each. The matches were timed and if it ended before the 8th inning, the scores would be taken from the last fully completed inning.
The beauty of this format is that your plan changes once you get to 10 balls because you want to leave your opponent hooked for his turn at the table.

Vinnie

Scott Lee
02-04-2008, 09:12 PM
Interesting to note, that although Deno Andrews collection is quite extensive, one obvious pool book missing is Jack White's, Let Us To Billiards Away. That book, when you can find it, fetches around $100 in used condition.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

http://www.3cushion.com/On%20Line%20Collection/Bibliography.htm

from a collection, comes this description

Oliva, Frank & Joe Wilson. Mid 1900s. ?Ten-Twenty? A Pocket Billiards Game. Chicago: Frank Oliva & Joe Wilson. This is the game that inspired the television series of this game between the best players in the world in the mid 1900s. Booklet in near mint condition and bound in green felt! (sold- ref#215567)

I think you'll at least get the rules, if not a copy of the book here

Doug

Vinnie
02-05-2008, 04:44 PM
Found an article on Frank Oliva...

http://www.illinoisbilliardclub.com/NewsLtr/FrankOliva.htm

Vinnie

Scott Lee
02-05-2008, 08:41 PM
Vinnie...What a nice article! I guess Ten-Twenty was syndicated nationally, according to the article by Jim Parker. I was also a guest at the 35th anniversary of the Oliva Women's League. I guess Jim forgot that I did a short trick shot show, as a part of the evening's entertainment (I was listed in the program:rolleyes:). LOL Oh well...it was an honor and a pleasure to be there, along with one of my other mentors, Jerry Briesath!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

SJDinPHX
02-05-2008, 09:02 PM
Ten-Twenty was orginally conceived by my first teacher and mentor, Frank Oliva. Frank was a many-time Chicago city champion, and his brother Nick, was a world champion, who happened to die of a massive heart attack, while in first place at one the Jansco's Stardust tournaments. Frank wanted to try to bring some excitement to pool on t.v., and knew there needed to be some kind of time constraints, so that you wouldn't get 'bored' watching players run a hundred balls. One of the other key points, was that this show was, I believe, the first time that 'pro pool' was played with any kind of time clock.

Ten-Twenty was produced and aired in Chicago, but never made it to national syndication...so it was locally aired, and ran for two years. Frank set up all the matches, and even Wanderone came on a time or two. Frank passed away in 1993, and I have no idea what happened to the episodes, or the rights. Obviously (thankfully) some of them are still floating around on the internet! Frank was an innovater, a master teacher, a memory expert, and an all-around good guy, who loved pool like all of us here. All he ever wanted was to help poolplayers find a way to make legitimate money at pool, without having to resort to gambling. He was the reason I began teaching, in the late 70's, and was most proud of me when I became part of the BCA instructor program! After his death, I mentored his Oliva Women's League for several years, which was then, and still is, the longest continuously running pool league, playing their 40th straight year last year!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Sounds like he would have been one of my hero's had I known him.
The pool world has had too few people like the gentleman you
describe. To bad he left us so early.
Regards,
Dick

tksix
02-05-2008, 10:30 PM
I noticed that someone from IBC posted a link to videos of Ten / Twenty. Since I saw that I have scanned my copy of the official rules and the cover of the official program.

Frank was also my teacher & mentor for 3 years prior to his passing. As Scott said, he was a great man and did so much for the game we love. I am very fortunate to have spent that time with him. He always said that he had a "love affair" with the game, and he truly did.

I saw his add in Pool & Billiard magazine, so I called him and went to his home on a Saturday afternoon. When he first opened the door and I shook his hand, my first thought was................what did I get myself into. Frank suffered from terrible arthritis. I was a cocky 20 something and he was some old dude (in my pea brain of a mind). You went in his basement and there was an old Brunswick with a pole right next to the table, and clutter like you wouldn't believe. Again, I am thinking YIKES I have to get out of here. Two and half hours later, I thought I found my second father. Even with his arthritis he had a silky smooth stroke, and could move that cue ball around as if it were programmed.

He really cared and wanted you to love the game as he did. I spent every Saturday I could in his basement, soaking it all in. Once you were his student, you were also his family. I miss those days, and I miss him. But, I am so thankful that I was able to have those years under his guidance.

Funny how after you get to know the person, that pole really wasn't in the way, and that clutter was the perfect back drop for that old Brunswick!

Today I share my love of the game with my son, and pass down those lessons from Frank. His picture is up on the wall watching over me, and my old Brunswick. Wouldn't ya know it..................mine has a pole too!

Mike

tksix
02-05-2008, 10:39 PM
If you can't read any of the attachments, PM me your e-mail and I will get them to you.

Mike

Vahmurka
02-06-2008, 05:23 AM
tksix, thanks a lot for sharing the rulebook! As a straight pool lover I must definitely give it a try!

Vinnie
02-07-2008, 11:55 AM
Thanks again to tksix for uploading images of the official rule book. What follows is an easy reading version of the rules. Also a link to a pdf version is at http://pool.fojavi.com/Ten-Twenty_Rules.pdf


Vinnie
----------------------------------------

Ten-Twenty
by
Frank Oliva and Joe Wilson
OFFICIAL RULES
Note: Unless otherwise covered below, the general rules for 14.1 Continuous Pocket Billiards apply.
1 - Ten-Twenty is a game of indeterminate innings, preferably seven to ten. The number of innings to be
played shall be determined before play starts. For Television purposes, representatives of Ten-Twenty Inc. will
determine the number of innings. Each player shall be entitled to score ten points in each inning up until the final
inning. In the final inning, if he scores ten points, he shall be permitted to score an additional twenty points, for a
total of thirty. His total for the inning is the number of points scored.
2 - The total number of balls that a player pockets in each inning shall be added to his score, but at no time shall
he be permitted to pocket more than ten balls, except in the final inning. When he has completed his run of ten,
or missed, his opponent shall come to the table for his inning. Highest total number of points at the end of the
final inning shall win the game.
3 - The game shall start with the contending players lagging for the break. The player lagging closest to the
head rail has the choice of making the opening break or requiring his opponent to do so. The player shall break
from inside the head string into fifteen object balls that are racked in a pyramid at the foot spot. He must drive at
least two object balls to the rail. Failure to do so shall cause him to lose two points, and it is optional whether the
opposing player shall accept his turn at the table or force the opening player to break again, after having the
balls re-racked. The opening player loses two points for each successive failure to meet the requirements of the
break.
(The opening break is merely a procedure that leads into the beginning of the game itself, and does not count as
a half-inning.)
4 - The opposing player now comes to the table to begin the first half of the first inning of the game.
5 - The player shall call the number of each ball and the pocket into which he intends to score. Each ball shall
count for one point if it goes into the designated pocket. All extra balls that are pocketed shall also count as one
point each, provided the called ball has been properly pocketed. The referee will call all obvious shots to
expedite the game. However, the player shall be the final authority on which shot he is playing.
6 - Whenever fourteen of the fifteen object balls have been pocketed, leaving only one object ball on the table,
the fourteen object balls shall be racked at the foot spot. The player now has his choice of playing a safety,
taking a scratch, or attempting to pocket the remaining ball and break the fourteen balls, in order to continue his
run.
7 - A safety consists of driving an object ball to any cushion with the cue ball, or of causing the cue ball to touch
any cushion after contacting an object ball. Failure to complete the safety costs the player one point, and
terminates his half-inning.
8 - A contestant who plays two safeties in succession shall be penalized five points. His opponent may then
take the option of accepting the shot or causing the balls to be racked, forcing the offending player to break. The
same rules shall apply as at the opening break.
9 - A scratch consists of the following:
(a) Failure to drive an object ball the the cushion.
(b) Failure to drive the cue ball to the cushion after touching an object ball.
(c) Causing the cue ball to go into any pocket.
(d) Committing a foul by touching the cue ball with any part of the cue except the tip, in executing the
shot.
(e) Committing a foul by touching the cue ball with any item of clothing, any part of the body, or any
object except the tip of the cue.
(f) Committing a foul by touching the cue ball with the tip of the cue and not completing the shot.
(g) Committing a foul by touching any object ball with the cue, any item of clothing, any part of the
body, or any object whatsoever.
(h) Causing the cue ball to leave the table.
Each scratch shall cause the offending player to lose one point, and shall terminate his half-inning.
10 - Two successive scratches, as described above, regardless of the order in which they fall, shall cause the
offending player to lose six points. (One point for the scratch, and a five point penalty for having committed two
successive scratches.) His opponent then has the option of accepting the shot or causing the balls to be racked.
The same rules shall apply as at the opening break.
11 - One scratch shall be permitted following one safety, or one safety shall be permitted following one scratch,
without a penalty, except for losing one point for the scratch. After completing one scratch following a safety, or
one safety following a scratch, a player must attempt to pocket a ball. Failure to make this attempt shall subject
the offending player to a penalty of five points, in the case of a safety, six points, in the case of a scratch. It shall
then be optional for the opposing player to accept his shot, or cause the balls to be racked, forcing the offending
player to break, in which case rules of the opening break shall apply.
12 - Whenever a player has been penalized five or six points, the scratches and/or safeties which caused the
penalty shall no longer be charged against him.
13 - If a player attempts a shot that, in the opinion of the referee, is not a legitimate attempt to pocket a ball, but
only an attempt to avoid a safety, it shall be counted a safety. The referee's interpretation of the identity of that
shot shall be final.
14 - When pocketing the tenth ball in any inning but the final inning, or the thirtieth ball in the final inning, a
player shall be permitted to pocket that ball and play to leave his opponent safe, without having it count as a
safety against him. However, a player cannot leave his opponent safe by pocketing a ball at any time
during the game, except on the tenth ball or thirtieth ball, as provided above. Should he do so, it shall be
optional for the opposing player to accept his shot at the table or to force the offending player to shoot as a
continuation of his inning.
15 - A player cannot take a deliberate scratch in the last half of the inning preceding the final inning, or in the
first half of the final inning. (For example: in the last half of the seventh inning of an eight-inning game, or in the
first half of the eighth inning of an eight-inning game.) He must play a shot or a safety. He shall be allowed a
second consecutive safety, without a penalty, in these half-innings only. If he takes a deliberate scratch, or
should he foul in these half-innings, he shall lose one point. If it is his second consecutive scratch, He shall lose
six points. However, in either case, It shall then be optional for his opponent to accept his shot at the table or
cause the balls to be racked, forcing the offending player to break, with the same rules applying as at the
opening break.
16 - If, in the opinion of the referee, there is any sign of collusion on the part of either or both players, the player
or players involved shall forfeit all prize money that he or they are competing for, and shall be barred from
competition for life.
17 - Players must conduct themselves as gentlemen at all times. If, in the opinion of the referee, any player
demonstrates unsportsmanlike behavior, which is detrimental to the game, he may forfeit the game and declare
the opposing player the winner, 1 ? 0. The referee may later take more drastic action, if necessary.
18 - The referee shall have complete control of the game, and his opinion shall be final in all decisions

tksix
02-07-2008, 12:18 PM
Vinnie,

WOW!! That is cool. Thanks. This is really a nice thing for you guys to be showing interest in Ten / Twenty. Frank would definitely be honored.

Mike

rikdee
02-07-2008, 12:23 PM
[QUOTE=Scott Lee]Interesting to note, that although Deno Andrews collection is quite extensive, one obvious pool book missing is Jack White's, Let Us To Billiards Away. That book, when you can find it, fetches around $100 in used condition.

Scott Lee


I have a autographed, pristine copy of Jack's book. Over the course of about twenty years, I played with Jack in three different exhibitions as an "audience participant". I met him at Northern Mich. Univ. in circa 1967. He put on a show at the newly opened campus room and got snowed in for three days. He stayed at the dorm in which I was living. He had a ball and each time I met up with him subsequently, he remembered me and the time at NMU. If fact, he would stop his show to tell the story. Great guy and a wonderful player.

_Rick