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MBTaylor
03-14-2008, 02:00 PM
DISCLAIMER: I have done a search and could not find any topics on this. Also, I know some of you may think this is probably a stupid question/idea, so please excuse this post if you do....lol :rolleyes:

With all the high priced break cues out there and the posted results of break speeds, there doesn't seem to be that much a of a cost-benefit reason to buy one.

Ratings table can be found here: https://www.platinumbilliards.com/rating_break.php?sid=34f567e1f2ac053e415e2672b7e1a 73a

Note: I currently have a 2nd Gen XBreaker w/ White Diamond tip.

Based on the table there are a bunch of playing cues that have break speeds with a fairly negligible break speed difference than that of the BK2, and the XBreaker is somewhat far down on the list.

Anyway, I have seen people, myself included, break just as well with their shooting cue or a crappy house cue as when using an XBreaker, BK2, etc etc.

The only reason I don't really break with my Predator 5K2 is because Predator ferrules are such a PITA to get replaced if it cracks that I don't want to risk it or go through the hassle.

What I am thinking about doing is getting a cheap jump/break cue and having it modified by having a White Diamond tip and different ferrule installed, maybe an Aegis ferrule. As far as the cue, I am thinking about the Players Sneaky Pete jump/break cue that can be purchased online for about $80.

I was just wondering what your thoughts are on this and maybe get some feed back on J/B cues to use as the base, ferrules to use, or any other ideas on doing this.

BVal
03-14-2008, 02:05 PM
DISCLAIMER: I have done a search and could not find any topics on this. Also, I know some of you may think this is probably a stupid question/idea, so please excuse this post if you do....lol :rolleyes:

With all the high priced break cues out there and the posted results of break speeds, there doesn't seem to be that much a of a cost-benefit reason to buy one.

Ratings table can be found here: https://www.platinumbilliards.com/rating_break.php?sid=34f567e1f2ac053e415e2672b7e1a 73a

Note: I currently have a 2nd Gen XBreaker w/ White Diamond tip.

Based on the table there are a bunch of playing cues that have break speeds with a fairly negligible break speed than that of the BK2 and the XBreaker is somewhat far down on the list.

Anyway, I have seen people, myself included, break just as well with their shooting cue or a crappy house cue as when using an XBreaker, BK2, etc etc.

The only reason I don't really break with my Predator 5K2 is because Predator ferrules are such a PITA to get replaced if it cracks that I don't want to risk it or go through the hassle.

What I am thinking about doing is getting a cheap jump/break cue and having it modified by having a White Diamond tip and different ferrule installed, maybe an Aegis ferrule. As far as the cue, I am thinking about the Players Sneaky Pete jump/break cue that can be purchased online for about $80.

I was just wondering what your thoughts are on this and maybe get some feed back on J/B cues to use as the base, ferrules to use, or any other ideas on doing this.
I have thought about it and don't see a problem with doing it. White Diamond is a good break tip. I have one on an old viking and love it.

BVal

StevenPWaldon
03-14-2008, 02:06 PM
I think you're pretty spot on. Paying a lot for jump/break cues doesn't yield that much benefit over a cheap J&J or Action.

A friend of mine just got an Action j/b cue with a phenolic tip. I tried it for the first time last week I did a full-ball jump from 6" away on my first try. It was sick how easy it was. It was a joke, and if anything made me hate jump cues even more because of how easy they make getting out of good safes.

So really, whatever you get will be fine. For budget cues, i've always been a fan of Players. But you also can't go wrong with J&J or Action.

DISCLAIMER: I have done a search and could not find any topics on this. Also, I know some of you may think this is probably a stupid question/idea, so please excuse this post if you do....lol :rolleyes:

With all the high priced break cues out there and the posted results of break speeds, there doesn't seem to be that much a of a cost-benefit reason to buy one.

Ratings table can be found here: https://www.platinumbilliards.com/rating_break.php?sid=34f567e1f2ac053e415e2672b7e1a 73a

Note: I currently have a 2nd Gen XBreaker w/ White Diamond tip.

Based on the table there are a bunch of playing cues that have break speeds with a fairly negligible break speed than that of the BK2 and the XBreaker is somewhat far down on the list.

Anyway, I have seen people, myself included, break just as well with their shooting cue or a crappy house cue as when using an XBreaker, BK2, etc etc.

The only reason I don't really break with my Predator 5K2 is because Predator ferrules are such a PITA to get replaced if it cracks that I don't want to risk it or go through the hassle.

What I am thinking about doing is getting a cheap jump/break cue and having it modified by having a White Diamond tip and different ferrule installed, maybe an Aegis ferrule. As far as the cue, I am thinking about the Players Sneaky Pete jump/break cue that can be purchased online for about $80.

I was just wondering what your thoughts are on this and maybe get some feed back on J/B cues to use as the base, ferrules to use, or any other ideas on doing this.

MBTaylor
03-14-2008, 02:09 PM
Something as friend and I were thinking about, was to have a 1 piece phenolic tip/ferrule combo put on. Have it ground flat to be used a ferrule, then have a White Diamond tip put on.

Local repair guy said it was pointless, but we think it would be fun to try for S&Gs.

BVal
03-14-2008, 02:29 PM
Something as friend and I were thinking about, was to have a 1 piece phenolic tip/ferrule combo put on. Have it ground flat to be used a ferrule, then have a White Diamond tip put on.

Local repair guy said it was pointless, but we think it would be fun to try for S&Gs.
I agree with the local repair guy but hey it's your money :) I would put an unbreakable ferrule and a WD tip on it and call it a day :)

BVal

ajohnson13
03-14-2008, 02:37 PM
Something as friend and I were thinking about, was to have a 1 piece phenolic tip/ferrule combo put on. Have it ground flat to be used a ferrule, then have a White Diamond tip put on.

Local repair guy said it was pointless, but we think it would be fun to try for S&Gs.


I am in the process of trying this exact setup. I have a J&J that I had the Phenolic faced off flat, and a layered hard leather tip put on. I love it for breaking 9 ball (increased control) but otherwise didn't like the feel. I have 3 white diamond tips soon to arrive, and I am replacing the tip with one. I will definately share my thoughts...

-AJ

Buckeyejim
03-14-2008, 02:40 PM
I have thought about it and don't see a problem with doing it. White Diamond is a good break tip. I have one on an old viking and love it.

BVal
I agree w/ the White Diamond tip,but you won't want to practice a lot of jumping-it literally eats Simonis!

BVal
03-14-2008, 02:44 PM
I agree w/ the White Diamond tip,but you won't want to practice a lot of jumping-it literally eats Simonis!
I had a stealth AT-1 jump cue and about 2 years with a WD tip on it and NEVER messed up any cloth ever. I now have the Predator Air so WD for jumping is not an issue. I mostly practiced on my home table hitting hundreds of jump shots and never messed it up. Even in any tourneys I jumped in I never messed up any cloth. I understand that accidents do happen once and a while but if the cloth is ripping or tearing over and over - it might not be the tip that is the problem. :) JMHO.

BVal

Pushout
03-14-2008, 02:50 PM
Water buffalo on a '70s Adam with steel joint. Course, I can always use my Joss Boss, but it's a bit warped:(

JoeyInCali
03-14-2008, 02:53 PM
You want a cheap break cue?
Sweet talk your local cuemaker.
Tell him you'll take his C grade shaft and cutdown house cue.
You just want a light shaft, light butt, melamine or phenolic threaded ferrule and a hard tip.

Buckeyejim
03-14-2008, 02:59 PM
I had a stealth AT-1 jump cue and about 2 years with a WD tip on it and NEVER messed up any cloth ever. I now have the Predator Air so WD for jumping is not an issue. I mostly practiced on my home table hitting hundreds of jump shots and never messed it up. Even in any tourneys I jumped in I never messed up any cloth. I understand that accidents do happen once and a while but if the cloth is ripping or tearing over and over - it might not be the tip that is the problem. :) JMHO.

BVal
I was trying to give a heads up,I was a little harsh saying they eat up Simonis,but they ARE NOT as forgiving as some other tips.WD is all I use now.:p

bigpocket
03-14-2008, 07:34 PM
proficent billiards sells a modifided players cue to jump and break with. Check them out before ya do get all the work done your self to a cheap cue,

magnetardo
03-14-2008, 07:48 PM
I was trying to give a heads up,I was a little harsh saying they eat up Simonis,but they ARE NOT as forgiving as some other tips.WD is all I use now.:p

The tip should never damage the cloth, those little white marks you see after jumping are actually burn marks caused by the friction of the cue ball against the cloth. It's the jump causing the mark not the tip. If you are gonna practice, get a scrap piece of cloth and put it under the cue ball to practice jumping :)

TheBook
03-14-2008, 11:00 PM
The tip should never damage the cloth, those little white marks you see after jumping are actually burn marks caused by the friction of the cue ball against the cloth. It's the jump causing the mark not the tip. If you are gonna practice, get a scrap piece of cloth and put it under the cue ball to practice jumping :)

I did that and still got a lot of marks where the CB landed after the jump. Jumping will mess up the cloth.

.

Snapshot9
03-15-2008, 05:17 AM
if you can afford to keep switching ferrules/tips, there is nothing wrong with it, but why? Do you not think that the cuemakers/manufacturers have not researched and tried different combinations of ferrules/tips before coming out with their version of a Break cue?

I had a new tip put on my Break cue after a tip popped off, and it was $15.
The last time I had a tip put on my playing cue, it was $30.

How much are you going to end up having invested by the time you get done? More than the Break cue cost to begin with? You can find bargains now and then (a product with better quality than the cost of it), but you can not make a 'silk purse' out of a 'sow's ear'.

I have tried many Break cues, but have yet to find a better one for the money than the J&J Break/jump cue. IT IS A BARGAIN! As far as phenolic tip vs. leather or other kinds, the phenolic is fine. I think people that don't like them either don't have a good breaking technique to begin with, or did not concentrate on their form and stroke after they got the phenolic tipped cue.

That's kind of like getting a better bat, but still having a bad swing, you still can't hit the ball.

I have played 46 years, and IMO, a good Break cue improves your break between 15-18%, that's all. But, in that slight improvement, it sinks balls that would not otherwise go, and it gives you easier layouts that would otherwise not be there. Is it worth it? IMO, yes. Why? Because it helps give you an edge, a better opportunity to run the table on a consistent basis, and consistency is the name of the game in Pool.

Some equipment, by its very makeup, dictates that you have to use it in a particular way, which means you have to conform to rules of use for it.
A real good player is ALWAYS a very disciplined player because you can not reach excellence in anything without being disciplined.

You do not need 'more' or 'lots' of english on the break. I would be willing to bet that 95% or more of the pros will tell you they use very little. If you put a quarter in the center of a cue ball, their cue tip would not be outside of the quarter's diameter.

I know this is an old saying, but if you want your world to be better, that usually starts with making yourself better first, and not by buying something.

WesleyW
03-15-2008, 06:09 AM
Something as friend and I were thinking about, was to have a 1 piece phenolic tip/ferrule combo put on. Have it ground flat to be used a ferrule, then have a White Diamond tip put on.

Local repair guy said it was pointless, but we think it would be fun to try for S&Gs.

No it's not pointless. I bought a $30 break cue with a 1 piece cheap phenolic tip/ferrule combo. It's difficult to put chalk on it, and you got lesser grip. So I brought my cue to a repair guy. He flattend it out and put a WD on it. It's really much better. A friend of mine own a JJ with also a phenolic tip/ferrule combo. She did the same. Both cues breaks very nice. It's a real improvement.

There is only one problem. You can't just put a WD on a flattend out phenolic ferrule. If you break hard, the WD will popped off of your shaft. The repair guy glued it with Loctite 404, but it will not hold if you don't installed it in a right way. You need to install the WD propperly to hold it. Make sure that the contact between the phenolic and WD are rough. There must be no air between those two components, only glue. You need to take some time to let the glue work. After that, you need to glue the edges of the WD/Phenolic and sand it off to make it flat around the tip.

ajohnson13
03-21-2008, 12:51 PM
I just got the WD tip installed on the phenolic ferrule, and it is just as I expected...It breaks just as hard as the phenolic tip, but it holds chalk better, and I get more grip for jump shots. My local cue repair guy (Jeff @ Dr. Cues) did a great job. All in all I have less than $100 into what i believe to be a great J/B cue.

Snapshot9
03-21-2008, 01:11 PM
what basic material is the White Diamond tip made out of, considering it is harder than leather (buffalo tip) and not as hard as a phenolic tip?

ajohnson13
03-21-2008, 01:38 PM
I am not sure. His web site has a vague description of the materials used (http://www.piconecues.com/id4.html). In any event, I am impressed with the performance compared to phenolic.

Detlev Rackow
03-21-2008, 02:22 PM
I have actually bought the cheapest standard cue I could find - a local food retailer sold cues for 20 Euro, which is about 30 USD, and put a WD on it myself. Actually, they are quite easy to fix without a lathe. I put a nickel-shape on it with my ultimate tool.

The sound is loud and sharp, but not unpleasant.

It looks like crap, but it breaks just fine for me, and it was really cheap :-)

Regards,

Detlev

suckershot
03-21-2008, 02:50 PM
DISCLAIMER: I have done a search and could not find any topics on this. Also, I know some of you may think this is probably a stupid question/idea, so please excuse this post if you do....lol :rolleyes:

With all the high priced break cues out there and the posted results of break speeds, there doesn't seem to be that much a of a cost-benefit reason to buy one.

Ratings table can be found here: https://www.platinumbilliards.com/rating_break.php?sid=34f567e1f2ac053e415e2672b7e1a 73a

Note: I currently have a 2nd Gen XBreaker w/ White Diamond tip.

Based on the table there are a bunch of playing cues that have break speeds with a fairly negligible break speed difference than that of the BK2, and the XBreaker is somewhat far down on the list.

Anyway, I have seen people, myself included, break just as well with their shooting cue or a crappy house cue as when using an XBreaker, BK2, etc etc.

The only reason I don't really break with my Predator 5K2 is because Predator ferrules are such a PITA to get replaced if it cracks that I don't want to risk it or go through the hassle.

What I am thinking about doing is getting a cheap jump/break cue and having it modified by having a White Diamond tip and different ferrule installed, maybe an Aegis ferrule. As far as the cue, I am thinking about the Players Sneaky Pete jump/break cue that can be purchased online for about $80.

I was just wondering what your thoughts are on this and maybe get some feed back on J/B cues to use as the base, ferrules to use, or any other ideas on doing this.

You know, I had a time where I think I was looking for the latest and greatest in break cues. Truthfully, however, through all the gimmicks and break cues, I don't think any one of them allowed me to really break any better than any other cue. I mean, I'm sure there might be little things about this cue or that cue that might affect the break, but more than anything, I think simply improving your technique will improve your break far more than any slight advantage in technology of one cue over another.

There were times when I used a house cue to break with, a Cuetec, Fury J/B, Predator Sneaky with BK shaft, Rick Howard Mace, and now a simple Players sneaky. I've also tried numerous others, such as the X-breaker, Mezz PB2, J&J, sneaky w/purpleheart shaft, etc. None really sticks out in my mind as THE one. I will say I liked the feel of the Mace best, but in terms of breaking harder or better, I don't think that was the case.

Quite frankly, I think the best thing I ever discovered was a HARD leather tip. I couldn't quite deal with the phenolic tips, I had a hard time keeping it on the table, plus I hate that horrid sound they make. I really I break as well with my Players sneaky with Hercules Hard tip as anything else I've used.

Cuedog
03-21-2008, 04:35 PM
I have actually bought the cheapest standard cue I could find - a local food retailer sold cues for 20 Euro, which is about 30 USD, and put a WD on it myself. Actually, they are quite easy to fix without a lathe. I put a nickel-shape on it with my ultimate tool.

The sound is loud and sharp, but not unpleasant.

It looks like crap, but it breaks just fine for me, and it was really cheap :-)

Regards,

Detlev
Although there are others that do as efficient a job as the White Diamond tip, I agree completely with altering a less expensive cue to get nearly the same results.

Break tips, however, should be relatively flat (quarter radius at the most) and about half the height of the one pictured for optimum performance.

Gene

Detlev Rackow
03-21-2008, 05:00 PM
Break tips, however, should be relatively flat (quarter radius at the most) and about half the height of the one pictured for optimum performance.


Thanks for the hint, I have just flattened the tip a bit. :-)