PDA

View Full Version : German billiards champ tests positive


TheNewSharkster
03-17-2008, 01:09 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/7923510?MSNHPHMA

"DUESSELDORF, Germany (AP) - Germany's first case of doping in billiards was announced Monday after national champion Axel Buescher tested positive for an EPO masking agent.

Buescher's positive test came at November's German championships, where he captured the carom billiards title, the German Billiard Union said.
Buescher said the masking agent was in prescription medicine he failed to have approved.

The Union suspended Buescher for one year and stripped him of his title after he passed on his right to have the "B" sample tested.

EPO is a blood booster most closely associated with endurance sports, such as cycling, where it has played a central role in several Tour de France scandals."





I wasn't even aware that they had banned substances in billiards. Very interesting to see something like this hit national news.

crawfish
03-17-2008, 01:32 PM
Holy crap. Drug testing in pool? There goes all of the tournaments. 74% of the players won't "pee well."

Roy Steffensen
03-17-2008, 01:37 PM
In Norway there are drugtests at almost every National Championships (8-ball, 9-ball, 14-1 every year).

They pick 3-5 random players for testing each time.

About 3-5 years ago one guy, who played a national tournament for the first time in 10 years, and lost both his matches, got tested. and he tested positive, the first and only Norwegian player. Of course it reached the main news :(

TheNewSharkster
03-17-2008, 01:42 PM
In Norway there are drugtests at almost every National Championships (8-ball, 9-ball, 14-1 every year).

They pick 3-5 random players for testing each time.

About 3-5 years ago one guy, who played a national tournament for the first time in 10 years, and lost both his matches, got tested. and he tested positive, the first and only Norwegian player. Of course it reached the main news :(




I would be curious to know what is considered 'banned'. I mean would they strip a title if someone tested positive for THC or something like that?

cigardave
03-17-2008, 01:43 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/7923510?MSNHPHMA

"DUESSELDORF, Germany (AP) - Germany's first case of doping in billiards was announced Monday after national champion Axel Buescher tested positive for an EPO masking agent.

Buescher's positive test came at November's German championships, where he captured the carom billiards title, the German Billiard Union said.
Buescher said the masking agent was in prescription medicine he failed to have approved.

The Union suspended Buescher for one year and stripped him of his title after he passed on his right to have the "B" sample tested.

EPO is a blood booster most closely associated with endurance sports, such as cycling, where it has played a central role in several Tour de France scandals."





I wasn't even aware that they had banned substances in billiards. Very interesting to see something like this hit national news.

I believe that the "EPO" in "EPO masking agent" stands for... Extraordinary Pocketing Opiate.

Guys who are on EPO don't miss shots for days... or even weeks!!... the shit's amazing.... no wonder that they're testing for it.

TheNewSharkster
03-17-2008, 01:46 PM
I believe that the "EPO" in "EPO masking agent" stands for... Extraordinary Pocketing Opiate.

Guys who are on EPO don't miss shots for days... or even weeks!!... the shit's amazing.



I can't tell if you are being silly or serious. I mean if there was a real EPO people at pool rooms would be hopped up on that stuff all the time :D

I am in the seattle area as well. Redmond to be specific. Have you checked out The Parlor over in Bellevue?

billbOK
03-17-2008, 01:52 PM
In Norway there are drugtests at almost every National Championships (8-ball, 9-ball, 14-1 every year).

They pick 3-5 random players for testing each time.

In Switzerland it's the same.The federation introduce drugtests about 15 years ago.
Fews players had been temporarily suspended since the introduction of tests. Most of them were because of cannabis consumption...

The banned products are on a list from swiss olympics federation.

crawfish
03-17-2008, 01:52 PM
I would be curious to know what is considered 'banned'. I mean would they strip a title if someone tested positive for THC or something like that?
Why do you spec out THC, young grasshopper?

billbOK
03-17-2008, 02:01 PM
I would be curious to know what is considered 'banned'. I mean would they strip a title if someone tested positive for THC or something like that?

In Switzerland they would !

TheNewSharkster
03-17-2008, 02:05 PM
Why do you spec out THC, young grasshopper?



Grasshopper!:D

I doubt steriods would give you any sort of advantage in pool so THC popped into my head. Not sure if it would enhance your game though.

crawfish
03-17-2008, 02:07 PM
Grasshopper!:D

I doubt steriods would give you any sort of advantage in pool so THC popped into my head. Not sure if it would enhance your game though.
I know quite a few that play just stoned as a bat and swear by it. I don't think the two go together, personally.

Bob Jewett
03-17-2008, 02:16 PM
... I wasn't even aware that they had banned substances in billiards. Very interesting to see something like this hit national news.
It comes with being a recognized international sport. As long as it's just Willie and Ralph trimming the suckers, no one cares. The responsible international agency is WADA. The recognized international sports organization is the WCBS, under which all official international pool/snooker/carom events are organized. The list of banned substances is available at:

http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/2008_List_En.pdf

Cannabinoids are forbidden in all competitions. Beta blockers are specifically forbidden in billiard events. For what it's worth, alcohol is not forbidden in competition in billiards but it is forbidden at boules. LSD seems not to be on the list of forbidden substances, but maybe it is covered some other way.

billbOK
03-17-2008, 02:21 PM
LSD seems not to be on the list of forbidden substances, but maybe it is covered some other way.

Playing billiards on LSD could be very dangerous IMO:eek:

Roy Steffensen
03-17-2008, 02:26 PM
In Switzerland they would !

In Norway too.

The guy who tested positive was banned from competion for 2 years. (The first tournament he played in 10 years, and he hasn't played one since :D)

gotgame
03-17-2008, 02:28 PM
Ever tried it :D :D No wonder most us players never go to tourneys there only a handfull would pass the test.

TheNewSharkster
03-17-2008, 02:51 PM
Ever tried it :D :D No wonder most us players never go to tourneys there only a handfull would pass the test.



Or the people who smoke up just don't have enough motivation to play in the tourny :D

TheBook
03-17-2008, 02:52 PM
Holy crap. Drug testing in pool? There goes all of the tournaments. 74% of the players won't "pee well."


What is this world comming too? Next they will be giving drug test to the poker players and Spelling Bee contestants.:eek:

BVal
03-17-2008, 02:54 PM
The simplest answer is if you want to do drugs - then go do something else. If drugs are more important than the sports you like to play or things you like to do than go be a professional drug user instead. JMHO.

BVal

TheNewSharkster
03-17-2008, 02:56 PM
The simplest answer is if you want to do drugs - then go do something else. If drugs are more important than the sports you like to play or things you like to do than go be a professional drug user instead. JMHO.

BVal



What about nicotine or alcohol? They are both drugs. I think you probably meant illegal drugs but I thought I would play a bit of devil advocate :)

bigskyjake
03-17-2008, 03:00 PM
What about nicotine or alcohol? They are both drugs. I think you probably meant illegal drugs but I thought I would play a bit of devil advocate :)


" Dude.... weed isn't a real drug............ HAVE YOU EVER SUCKED DICK FOR COKE?" Bob Saget, Half Baked :D :D

cigardave
03-17-2008, 03:01 PM
... then go be a professional drug user instead.

They had a double elimination drug-users tournament here in the Seattle area not too long ago. Green fees were a bit stiff... but considering what you got to sample, they really weren't that bad. Some just dropped out when they got to the B side... guess they had enough for the night.

BVal
03-17-2008, 03:03 PM
" Dude.... weed isn't a real drug............ HAVE YOU EVER SUCKED DICK FOR COKE?" bigskyjake - azbilliards :D :D


What????????:)

BVal
03-17-2008, 03:04 PM
What about nicotine or alcohol? They are both drugs. I think you probably meant illegal drugs but I thought I would play a bit of devil advocate :)
ya think :):)

bigskyjake
03-17-2008, 03:06 PM
What????????:)


hahahaha, you bastard. I wouldn't smoke pole for nose candy, if you put a BK triple stacker and a large cherry icee in front of me I just might........wait.......nope still wouldn't

BVal
03-17-2008, 03:09 PM
hahahaha, you bastard. I wouldn't smoke pole for nose candy, if you put a BK triple stacker and a large cherry icee in front of me I just might........wait.......nope still wouldn't
LOL you crack me up.

no pun inteneded.

BVal

Black-Balled
03-17-2008, 08:24 PM
I was playing a tourney once and had a damn dogfight with my opponent. I lose, hill-hill. Guy plays jam-up safe, I tie 2 balls up and he makes a couple, then banks a ball from the end rail into the side pocket and breaks the cluster I made to get out. tells me afterwards he is 'trippin my balls off, man. Just tell Nick (;) ) you won. I gotta get out of here'.:eek:

My pee is clean!!

mnorwood
03-17-2008, 08:33 PM
Drug testing would mean the end of pool. Who wants to play pool with completely pure blood?LOL :D

I plaid a set yesterday with one of the greatest hangovers of my life.:D

Str8PoolMan
03-17-2008, 09:32 PM
...than go be a professional drug user instead. JMHO.

BVal

I already am. The pay is not so great, but I'm my own boss and I have my weekends off.
:)

Roy Steffensen
03-18-2008, 02:20 AM
And today the news about the German player is in the Norwegian biggest newspapers aswell... Atleast international pool is getting attention again :D

Deadon
03-18-2008, 02:48 AM
A long time ago, at a pool room, known well for action, there was a restroom in the back. We all called it the "airport". Players would go in low and come out high.

AZE
03-18-2008, 03:03 AM
I would like to know what kind of unfair advantage taking any type of drug could give a pool player.

... Anyone?

billbOK
03-18-2008, 03:16 AM
I would like to know what kind of unfair advantage taking any type of drug could give a pool player.

... Anyone?

Depends on the drug used, but the advantages could be more self-confidence, pressure decline, easy focusing, tired feeling decline.
Nevertheless most of the drugs don't give any kind of advantage for playing (for example cannabis), while the biggest disadvantage is precoce death.

Newton
03-18-2008, 03:37 AM
I would like to know what kind of unfair advantage taking any type of drug could give a pool player.

... Anyone?

I have no experience with any drugs (well, I do drink a beer some times) but for me I could imagine that what-ever-substance-named-something could calm you down and don't get nervous before a tourney.. Stay-ability I guess is another.

I find it interesting to reed some of the comments here. It might be that I have the wrong impression but it seems like the view on drugs is "milder" in some parts of the world.... Drug testing would be the end of billiards ???? Is everybody stone over there or using what ever during tournaments?

Had me wondering when I hear people are slamming they're head in to the table having blood splashing around or when some one is on the edge and having a verbal explosion :confused:

It reminded me about the joke Monty Pyton made some years ago: The female football match team X against Germany... The German "ladies" where dressed up bodybuilders with mustaches he he he. Some bad effects he he.

N

jay helfert
03-18-2008, 05:32 AM
The only drug I was aware of that "helped" pool players, were "Uppers" or Amphetamines. In the old days, many hustlers used this stuff on a regular basis. I don't know how prevalent it's usage is today.

On uppers, you see better, feel stronger, and feel like you'll never miss a ball. A good player might not miss for hours on this shit. I mean you're totally zeroed in and fully focused on every shot. You see everything so clearly! And you can play a long, long time! When you finally come down, it is a hard crash. I imagine players here in the USA are still using them to a certain extent, especially the road men and full time gamblers.

Did I ever use them? Yes, once or twice. I used a little "white cross" a couple of times to stay awake when playing a long session. I don't even know for sure what they are, but they were around back then. I also tried some prescription "uppers", that my dad (a doctor) got for me. They were "black beauties", as Jimmy Reid liked to call them. I just didn't care for the after effects and didn't like the feeling of playing high, so I gave them up after a couple of experiments. I will say this, they worked! I could definitely play strong on them.

I remember guys used to gobble this stuff like candy. Ultimately they paid a price for using it. Like all drugs, it will take a toil on your body.

I remember the match where Frank Tullos beat Eddie Burton. They played all night. Frank played "on the natch" and Eddie was using every stimulant known to man. In the end Frank got there when Eddie began to come down from the pills. That night left an impression on me.

Newton
03-18-2008, 05:58 AM
The only drug I was aware of that "helped" pool players, were "Uppers" or Amphetamines. In the old days, many hustlers used this stuff on a regular basis. I don't know how prevalent it's usage is today.

On uppers, you see better, feel stronger, and feel like you'll never miss a ball. A good player might not miss for hours on this shit. I mean you're totally zeroed in and fully focused on every shot. You see everything so clearly! And you can play a long, long time! When you finally come down, it is a hard crash. I imagine players here in the USA are still using them to a certain extent, especially the road men and full time gamblers.

Did I ever use them? Yes, once or twice. I used a little "white cross" a couple of times to stay awake when playing a long session. I don't even know for sure what they are, but they were around back then. I also tried some prescription "uppers", that my dad (a doctor) got for me. They were "black beauties", as Jimmy Reid liked to call them. I just didn't care for the after effects and didn't like the feeling of playing high, so I gave them up after a couple of experiments. I will say this, they worked! I could definitely play strong on them.

I remember guys used to gobble this stuff like candy. Ultimately they paid a price for using it. Like all drugs, it will take a toil on your body.

I remember the match where Frank Tullos beat Eddie Burton. They played all night. Frank played "on the natch" and Eddie was using every stimulant known to man. In the end Frank got there when Eddie began to come down from the pills. That night left an impression on me.

Wow, that was a story I would remember. I was not aware about these issues in pool.

I have seen old clips from the Irish Snooker player Alex Higgins where he showed up with a bow tie and looked fresh. After the first frame he throw the bow tie and at the end of the match he could hardly speak if I don't remember wrong.

Correct me our English colleagues but I think he was a "thirsty" player if I'm not mistaking?
Edit:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Higgins

If I was playing against a drugged opponent I would feel horrible and I think I would leave the match and loose on purpose. It would for sure no feel right...

Correct me if I'm wrong and stepping on all the US hearts, but I have a impression that this is pretty common in the US?
Football players, base ball, sprinters and so on have at lest been exposed in media over here having used illegal substances :confused:

N

Gregg
03-18-2008, 06:05 AM
I wasn't even aware that they had banned substances in billiards. Very interesting to see something like this hit national news.

Why worry about the national mainstream media when you can reach the AZ?;)

HollyWood
03-18-2008, 06:36 AM
In the usa we are always trying to accomodate the players. In the banks at the derby, there was a woman who won by default(they gave the guy at least 1 hr delay in the match.) nosebleed wouldn't stop. what causes that? its a well known fact our military has a couple enhancing drugs. mark

Fatboy
03-18-2008, 06:54 AM
I would like to know what kind of unfair advantage taking any type of drug could give a pool player.

... Anyone?


if i understand your question correctly, What drug could a player use to play better? there is one answere, i have seen first hand. I have NEVER done it, i would admit to it if it were true but I have seen it amny times in the 80's. One word "Coke".

I knew a player who I wont name in 88 who when he wasnt on blow he was a weak A player when he wasnt coked up, when he was coked up he was almost a champion. He was the most effected player I ever saw doing blow, but that drug seemed to make everyone who used it play better, the trick to beating them is simple just let them burnout or run out of coke and they they fall apart, also slow playing them drives them crazy.

Back in the 80's it was common and wide spread in the pool rooms I went to, I wont say who, where etc. But it was just part of the lifestyle-playing pool full time. I made the decision earily in life that I wouldnt ever do drugs, i have never smoked weed or anything, never did drugs until my back got so bad I couldnt help it, and the day I feel ok the drugs are gone, infact pain pills hurt my game.


Back to coke, from my studying the drug it puts the user in a state of heightened sense of awareness, more self confidence which leads to being fearless in pool. Look at Scarface at the end of the movie-perhaps over the top but none the less thats what coke does to pool players, personally I wouldnt o it if it made me play like SVB. Bad stuff.

Newton
03-18-2008, 07:22 AM
Hmm.

I get more and more blown away by you're stories. Maybe some of my pool idols was in that stage earlier and I'm being naive :(

Our sport is for sure depending a lot of what's above our shoulders. Messing around with it doing chemicals sounds for me like a short sighted solution...

If you can't handle it without them, then find something else to do is my opinion.

I remember in my younger day's when I was preparing my self for a tourney (age 15-16). I was so focused on the next days tournament that I was dreaming about how the balls was suppose to go the night in front.
Awakey awakey at 07:00 fresh as a fish I had my best tournaments ever. Players around in the pool hall and my opponent was just shadows which I did not even bother to notice.
I guess I in one way or another had put my self in a meditation state which helped me a lot, simply my imagining how I was supposed to do my playing and act on this and that situation...

The point by the story is that there must be other way's to get in to which ever state the doped players are in, by using common sense and techniques which top athletes apply on a regular basis (and then I mean not drugs).

Modern Snooker players has as far I have seen, a "sports coach " which peps them up in every tea break and make them focus on the right things during play.
I have not seen this in Pool, but it must be a much healthier solution :D

N

TheNewSharkster
03-18-2008, 08:55 AM
I think coke could give someone an advantage. The thing is it only stays in your system 24-48 hours so anybody on it can hide it from a drug test.

Andrew Manning
03-18-2008, 09:15 AM
I would like to know what kind of unfair advantage taking any type of drug could give a pool player.

... Anyone?

Uppers including cocaine and amphetamines (speed, meth, adderall, etc.) will increase focus and mental stamina. A player using them will feel sharper, more alert, and more energized, and can play with a high degree of focus for much longer before fading, especially if they can sneak off for repeated doses.

Of course, they may impair judgment, decision-making, and logical/analytical abilities enough to hurt your game as well, but they are an unfair advantage on the execution side of the game.

-Andrew

TheNewSharkster
03-18-2008, 09:23 AM
Uppers including cocaine and amphetamines (speed, meth, adderall, etc.) will increase focus and mental stamina. A player using them will feel sharper, more alert, and more energized, and can play with a high degree of focus for much longer before fading, especially if they can sneak off for repeated doses.

Of course, they may impair judgment, decision-making, and logical/analytical abilities enough to hurt your game as well, but they are an unfair advantage on the execution side of the game.

-Andrew




The problem is you could say the same thing about some guy who drinks a couple red bulls before playing.

Andrew Manning
03-18-2008, 09:34 AM
The problem is you could say the same thing about some guy who drinks a couple red bulls before playing.

Yes, but in the case of caffeine the prevailing thinking is that there can be a level playing field since caffeine is available to everyone. Caffeine is an extremely low-risk and legal drug, that is cheaply available to anyone who wants to take advantages of the mild benefits it may have to your pool-playing ability.

Unlike caffeine, cocaine is a drug that entails a very high level of risk and expense to obtain, and serious health risks to use, meaning you're going to give only people with a disregard for their own health, safety, and criminal record an advantage if you allow it in your competition. This would encourage the fiercely competitive to disregard their health, safety, and criminal record, and that's why its use is banned, and tested for.

-Andrew

JoeyA
03-18-2008, 10:00 AM
It comes with being a recognized international sport. As long as it's just Willie and Ralph trimming the suckers, no one cares. The responsible international agency is WADA. The recognized international sports organization is the WCBS, under which all official international pool/snooker/carom events are organized. The list of banned substances is available at:

http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/2008_List_En.pdf

Cannabinoids are forbidden in all competitions. Beta blockers are specifically forbidden in billiard events. For what it's worth, alcohol is not forbidden in competition in billiards but it is forbidden at boules. LSD seems not to be on the list of forbidden substances, but maybe it is covered some other way.

I had no idea that there could be so many "forbidden" drugs. Some of the drugs have important health benefits from people suffering from illnesses or chemical imbalances. I like the way this is headed although many will fall by the way side. Who pays for these drug tests?
JoeyA

ine
03-18-2008, 10:16 AM
I have been tested 3 times in Norway and they always do the test immediatly after Im finished in the tournament, or still in it. All drugs helping in play will be revealed like this, theres is no time for it to leave the body.

If you need to use some prohibited drugs because of an illness you can claim exemption. I have astma and have to apply for an exemption for some drugs from the Norwegian WADA in cooperation with my physician. This is some paperwork... and most physicians dont know how this works. Ask your national WADA office for assistance:)

Bottom line, dont do drugs!

Snapshot9
03-18-2008, 10:32 AM
has upset a few people:

Read this, and feel free to leave a comment or two:

http://mommastantrum.blogspot.com/2008/03/next-up-tball-scandal-at-elementary.html

ne14tennis
03-18-2008, 10:44 AM
It comes with being a recognized international sport. As long as it's just Willie and Ralph trimming the suckers, no one cares. The responsible international agency is WADA. The recognized international sports organization is the WCBS, under which all official international pool/snooker/carom events are organized. The list of banned substances is available at:

http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/2008_List_En.pdf

Cannabinoids are forbidden in all competitions. Beta blockers are specifically forbidden in billiard events. For what it's worth, alcohol is not forbidden in competition in billiards but it is forbidden at boules. LSD seems not to be on the list of forbidden substances, but maybe it is covered some other way.

Hmmmmm....that's interesting
Pool on LSD :D

"How can I ever run this table if the balls are laughing at me?"

alstl
03-18-2008, 10:45 AM
Holy crap. Drug testing in pool? There goes all of the tournaments. 74% of the players won't "pee well."

This is my chance to go pro. The only thing I'm on is one-a-day vitamins.

Flettir
03-18-2008, 01:31 PM
Does Centrum Silver count as an illigal drug. If so I am in trouble.

Nine Ball
03-18-2008, 03:36 PM
Holy crap. Drug testing in pool? There goes all of the tournaments. 74% of the players won't "pee well."


I think that would be a great thing. Something needs to be done to try an improve the image of pool.

Nine Ball
03-18-2008, 03:44 PM
" Dude.... weed isn't a real drug............ HAVE YOU EVER SUCKED DICK FOR COKE?" Bob Saget, Half Baked :D :D


Kind of funny. Weed is no worse than alcohol and in my opinion alcohol is actually worse. Weed is not physically addicting.

Tell the guy who has smoked for 10 years straight you'll give him a million dollars to quit smoking and it's no problem.

Now tell they guy who has been an alcoholic for 10 years the same thing and see what happens... Yet one is legal and the other isn't.. What a great world we live in.. Not to mention all the stuff that's in cigs and well you know how that one goes..

We all know why weed is not legal.........