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Pjadedd
03-19-2008, 07:45 AM
My only experience with 9-ball (and pool in general) is watching it on TV and playing in my own home. I have a question about racking the balls in 9-ball. I know (obviously) that the 1 goes in the front, the 9 in the middle, and the other balls go in randomly. Here's my question, though. If the balls are racked in a particular way in the first game, do they have to be racked that way throughout the rest of a match (if it's a race to 9, for instance, do all the racks have to have the balls in the same position every time)?


PJ

TXsouthpaw
03-19-2008, 07:51 AM
no they do not

kryptonite9
03-19-2008, 07:54 AM
By the rules, all the other balls should be at random every rack.

Pjadedd
03-19-2008, 07:59 AM
That's what I thought (based on what I've seen on TV), but I wanted to make sure that's how it's always done. Thanks!


PJ

cleary
03-19-2008, 08:08 AM
If you watch matches like at the US OPEN when they play rack your own, you will notice a lot of the players will rack the exact same rack every time. They have a good idea where each ball will go after the break and the path for a break and run is similar every rack.

longhair
03-19-2008, 12:10 PM
If you watch matches like at the US OPEN when they play rack your own, you will notice a lot of the players will rack the exact same rack every time. They have a good idea where each ball will go after the break and the path for a break and run is similar every rack.
I've seen that and I've seen refs do it. By the rules as I understand them this is cheating. If we want to be deliberate about where the balls in the rack should be, we need to change the rules.

Poolfiend
03-19-2008, 12:18 PM
Obviously every table breaks a little different and every player has shots that they like and dislike, but isn't there a layout that is supposed to produce a more difficult runout and one that is supposed to produce an easier runout?

desert1pocket
03-19-2008, 12:23 PM
Obviously every table breaks a little different and every player has shots that they like and dislike, but isn't there a layout that is supposed to produce a more difficult runout and one that is supposed to produce an easier runout?


Yes, and opinions vary on it. There are several books that address just that.

Hierovision
03-19-2008, 12:26 PM
There is definitely an easier setup and a harder setup, which is why the rule is in place at all. If your opponent or ref is racking a certain pattern every time, and it is obviously the same pattern every time, I would call them on it (unless they're giving you the easier rack of course :p)

Poolfiend
03-19-2008, 12:36 PM
Anyone care to share the two different racking orders for hardest and easiest layouts.

Who wrote the book on racking secrets?

Thank you in advance.

worldison2
03-19-2008, 12:47 PM
Anyone care to share the two different racking orders for hardest and easiest layouts.

Who wrote the book on racking secrets?

Thank you in advance.
Joe wrote the book on racking secrets in 1999 and it is still the bible of racking. I know several great players who swear by it.

cigardave
03-19-2008, 12:50 PM
Who wrote the book on racking secrets?


Joe Tucker... DVD now available.

cleary
03-19-2008, 01:07 PM
If you ever play me, rack like this for me:

1
38
695
47
2

And Ill rack like this for you:

1
35
697
24
8

MinoInADixeCup
03-19-2008, 01:13 PM
If you ever play me, rack like this for me:

1
38
695
47
2

And Ill rack like this for you:

1
35
697
24
8

Printing.........
I'm going to play around with this a bit tonight.

klockdoc
03-19-2008, 01:31 PM
Anyone care to share the two different racking orders for hardest and easiest layouts.

Who wrote the book on racking secrets?

Thank you in advance.


Bob Jewett has an article on his web site by Dr. George Onoda. On pages 6 & 7 in this seven article .pdf file, he shows where the balls actually go when broke in a 9 ball rack and the speed that they travel. Very interesting read. http://www.sfbilliards.com/onoda_all_txt.pdf

Also, all Bob's articles are very interesting and knowledgeable for all pool players. They can be found at, http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/BD_articles.html

When racking for me, I place the balls as follows
1
38 (three on the side I am breaking from)
596
47
2

This will allow the 2 to come up table with the 1 and the cue ball. The 3 will stay somewhere around the side pocket for easier position playing.

If you are breaking, I rack about the same, but, I put the 2 where the 5 was and the 3 where the 2 was. This will keep the 2 at that end of the table away from the 1 and the 3 back up in the location of the 1. So the opponent has to go back and forth from one end to the other.

Edited to remove one of the 5's. Got caught..:)

cleary
03-19-2008, 02:02 PM
When racking for me, I place the balls as follows
1
38 (three on the side I am breaking from)
596
45
2


You should trade in one of your 5 balls for a 7 ball. :)

Poolfiend
03-19-2008, 03:05 PM
I know I wasn't the original poster, but thank you to all for the info.

catpool9
03-19-2008, 10:46 PM
If you watch matches like at the US OPEN when they play rack your own, you will notice a lot of the players will rack the exact same rack every time. They have a good idea where each ball will go after the break and the path for a break and run is similar every rack.

<<<<<<,,and thats the "Truth" if it ever was told!


David Harcrow

av84fun
03-19-2008, 11:13 PM
I've seen that and I've seen refs do it. By the rules as I understand them this is cheating. If we want to be deliberate about where the balls in the rack should be, we need to change the rules.

The rule is somewhat ambiguous. It does not say that the balls (other than the 9) must be racked "randomly" but in random ORDER.

The argument could be made that so long as they are not racked in consecutive numeric order...1,2,3,9,4,5,6,7,8 that the ORDER is therefore random.

I don't agree with that because "random" means

1. Having no specific pattern, purpose, or objective:

So, if a player racks the same way every time, there clearly is a pattern, purpose and objective.

Problem is that few refs are english majors. And even if they were, other than blindfolding the racker there would be no way to PROVE intentional ball placement.

Even if a specific ball ends up in exactly the same place, say, 3 times in a row, probabilities suggest that can happen randomly.

Besides, tactical racking is an age old practice and even property LAW can be changed by "custom and practices."

I think there would be little chance of getting the true random racking rule enforced in tournements and zero in gambling matches.

Regards,
Jim


5.2 RACKING THE BALLS
The object balls are racked in a diamond shape, with the 1-ball at the top of the diamond and on the foot
spot, the 9-ball in the center of the diamond, and the other balls in random order, racked as tightly as
possible. The game begins with cue ball in hand behind the head string.

klockdoc
03-19-2008, 11:16 PM
You should trade in one of your 5 balls for a 7 ball. :)
If I have two 5's, it is easier to get position on the 6. LOL My mistake. Thanks for catching. At work and in a rush to get home.

Jude Rosenstock
03-20-2008, 12:29 AM
Actually, the new WPA rules have more specific wording in regards to pattern racking. The word "random" is no longer used. The only problem is, no penalty is specified and no instructions are given on what the proper course of action is when a player is pattern racking.

2.2 Nine Ball Rack
The object balls are racked as tightly as possible in a diamond shape, with the one ball at the apex of the diamond and on the foot spot and the nine ball in the middle of the diamond. The other balls will be placed in the diamond without purposeful or intentional pattern. (See Regulation 4, Racking / Tapping of Balls.)

Unfortunately, I recognize a patterned rack immediately and every time. In my opinion (and I could be wrong for thinking this), it's MY break, MY balls, MY rack. My opponent is racking FOR ME, not for him. If he's pattern racking, he's cheating. It's the same as deliberately slugging the rack or any other side-table tactic. You're not trying to win by shooting and that's wrong.

enzo
03-20-2008, 05:14 AM
the tough question is when it becomes rack your own. you see, you're not allowed to put together packages in this game because that way your opponent could not win. instead, between racks you are required to listen to your opponent snivel and curse that you are cheating........ in all honesty never have i been exposed to such a horrid sport. i was in one of the "best pool halls in the country" and won a decent sized "rack your own" tournament and got nothing but grief from my opponents because i was "cheating." these are supposedly people that will admire good play. totally pitiful.

to answer your question, just play 10 ball.

Jude Rosenstock
03-20-2008, 07:23 AM
to answer your question, just play 10 ball.


Probably the only way to go at this point. Not to say 9-ball is "easy" but it CAN get really easy sometimes. 10-ball seems to always have a slightly more challenging spread.