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Peer
04-27-2008, 01:13 AM
Although I did quite well in school as a kid, I was never a good student, i.e., 'good' as in quietly accepting everything the teachers served us. This might also relate to my distaste I had for authorities at the time -- whether it was my teachers, parents, police, or any "high-horse" person that tried to imposed things on me -- I had a hard time conforming and taking orders.

Well, back then, my billiards/pool instructors also had a hard time making me do their exercises. To me it felt too militant as they forced us kids to practice 3-cushion, snooker, straight pool, and also rented a gym every Friday night for the obligatory workout -- the idea was to get us in shape for the long tournaments. The instructions were so fierce that many of us just lost that fun factor of playing, and gave up -- including myself. (However, my buddy somehow stuck with it, and won the 2007 team nationals, so I guess our instructors knew what they were doing.)

So, fast forward to present time, now living on a different continent and in very different times and circumstances. I'm a bit older but not necessarily much wiser, so I've again picked up this silly sport... and again let it consume my life. Hence, I would jump on any chance to improve my game, which, admittedly, hasn't improved much since I was a kid. So when a once-in-a-lifetime super master pool school was offered, instructed by none other than two world champions, Earl Strickland and Johnny Archer, there was NO WAY I would pass on it.

My concern wasn't as much the cost of the class or how far I had to travel, but more about how much one-on-one time I would possibly get with Earl and Archer. But when the organizer, Mark Cantrill, more or less assured me that there wouldn't be more than 5-10 students, I instantly packed the cue and hopped in my roadster to head towards Phoenix Arizona.

The next day, at noon, Tuesday the 22nd, after 12 hours of driving, I stepped into Kolby's Corner Pocket in Tempe. Johnny Archer was already there, drinking beer (well, root beer). As soon as Mark introduced me, a pregnant conversation emerged between Archer and I. Right away I could feel that this day was gonna be a great experience -- Archer being very friendly and down to earth.

Not long after, Mr. Larger Than Life -- Earl Strickland -- walks in, just like a rockstar. Right away he attracts all attention from everyone inside the poolhall. Earl didn't wait long before unpacking his funky cue (sporting tennis racket wrap), taping his fingers and starting to warmup/perform on the front table. Unfortunately it didn't take long until someone made fun of him miscuing, and Earl blew up: "I did not fly across the country just to get heckled." Great, just ****ing great -- even before the class had started, someone had to set Earl off in a tirade. Luckily that person wasn't part of the school, as I first feared.

When the class started, the final tally of students was only 6. Just then I was thinking about all the pool-players in this area who must have heard about the event, but yet chose to stay home... were they all idiots..?!

Anyways, the six of us got divided into two classes, three in each. My fellow pupils were Little John and Garrick. The three of us started off with Earl as our instructor. The other three had Archer. Two tables for each group.

The first thing Earl did was examine our "equipment", and sure enough he found my cue quite curious. For some reason, I decided to bring my 10mm John Parris snooker cue. Anyone who knows me also knows that I have no filter between my little brain and my big mouth. This, combined with a spontaneous mindset, have put me in quite a few ignominious situations. And this day was no different, as I rhetorically asked Earl why he hates us Europeans. Well, I might be exaggerating a bit, but it felt like everyone around me suddenly shied away, anticipating Earl punching my teeth out. But instead of taking aim at me, he said "I don't know how you folks can play with those toothpicks, so where in Europe are you from?" As I was getting ready to duck, I told him that I'm a Norwegian. Earl cracked a smile and then told a funny story (at the expense of us Norwegians of course) about when he once played in Oslo. It was hilarious, and also a very good icebreaker. From there on I could tell that he was in a very good mood. Actually, the entire time, Earl was very helpful and patient.

After talking a bit about cues, including pitching his custom made cue, Earl wanted to see each of us shoot a rack so he could determine what speed we played at. First up was Little John who ran that rack like a pro. Next was Garrick who also played as a champ. As I watched them run the balls with ease, knowing that I was up next, I couldn't help feeling like it was my first day in school as a kid -- waiting for my turn to stand up and tell who I am -- something that always gave me the shakes. And sure enough, when my turn was up, I played like a Chihuahua in a blizzard.

Among the shot exercises Earl showed us were a fairly straightforward cut & throw shots for position. However, it was interesting to discover that you couldn't actually see where Earl's tip hit the cueball -- as he always seems to aim dead center but at the very moment the shot is fired, he applies the english. It baffled me to a point where he let me stick my head in between his arm and body to watch it really close up. Yet, after repeating several monster stun shots, even from this angle, it was impossible to figure out where the cue actually hit the cueball. It didn't help much that Earl couldn't really explain this either.

To me, the highlight of Earl's session was his pattern play instructions, as this gave me some new ideas on how to run a table. Having a world champion talking you through a rack as you shoot is certainly inspiring.

At one point Earl set up a very tight cut shot, carefully marked with chalk. The purpose was to show that the only way to pocket a cut shot like this was to apply outside english. After trying to make the shot, over and over again, Earl concluded that he must have set it up too tight. Well, I started to argue that it would perhaps be easier (and more precise) to use no english but just focus on hitting it as thin as possible and hard. My fellow student Garrick agreed. But when Earl insisted that there was no way to make this shot without outside english, to his dismay I stepped up and made the shot, with no english at all (and with my gnarly European snooker cue I may add). Earl wasn't too happy.

This led to a discussion on what would be the safest way to pocket a long cut shot when no position play was required. I would think a natural roll (e.g. center follow) would be the best shot. Earl emphatically disagreed, telling us that we should always put outside english with some draw on all long cut shots. Just as for the previous thin cut shot that he missed, I again argued that the more english you apply to a shot, the more factors are introduced that you somehow have to contend with. Whether it's squirt, throw, or swerve, those factors will also be compounded by, for example, different table cloths, or from one set of balls to another, etc. Earl, who actually complained quite a bit that the balls we used were too light, completely dismissed my reasoning and insisted that we should ALWAYS use english.

As an instructor, Earl isn't very analytical but rather intuitive. This is perhaps why I think the combination of Earl and Archer worked quite well, especially since Archer's approach is very systematic and precise -- i.e, very different from Earl. The only problem arose when there was some "de-learning" from one instructor to next.

The first thing Archer corrected was the high finger-tip bridge that Earl taught us. He also adjusted the stance and shortened my bridge.

Archer is what I would call a good traditional instructor, being very perceptive to the different needs each student has. Archer was also more open to discussion and very responsive to my (often) inane questions -- not only answering, but often rebutting me by setting up other scenarios related to my initial question. Very helpful and comprehensive. Besides, he's a funny fellow -- very easy to get along with. For instance, in the midst of watching me repeat some draw/position shots, he walked up and smacked my bridge hand with his cue. Apparently, I forgot what he had earlier showed me -- how important it is to keep my palm firmly planted on the table.

Another thing Archer helped me correct, was that I often looked around the table while already being set up to shoot. This urged him to talk in length about how important it is to prepare your shot and make all decisions standing up. Don't bend down until you are completely ready to shoot, and if any doubt arises, you should stand up again and rethink -- never recalculate or adjust while in shooting position. He also illustrated this by chalk-marking his bridge hand for a left-english shot, and then marked the same shot for right-english. To no surprise, the discrepancy between the bridge-hand positions was staggering.

During last portion of Archer's session, he had us pick any game of our choice and play one rack with him as he would tell us his thought-process while shooting. Since the tables had very wide pockets, I knew I could run an 8-ball rack on him, so I opted to lag for the break, that I won, which then set me up for a slow 2nd ball break shot. So here I've been driving 1,600 miles to get lessons from the greatest of the greatest, and when I finally got to show off my 8-ball game, on the break I smacked the cueball straight off the rack into the corner pocket. Yeah, nice going there, Peer. So it was Archer who instead got to run the table -- oh well -- hell. As soon as the ridicule had subsided, I instead persuaded Earl to make a video of us playing for his cue (as we had spoken about earlier that day). At first he agreed, but as I was getting my camera ready, he chickened out. He told me that I could still buy the cue and make a video of him while signing it, but he didn't wanna risk a video of me beating him in a one-rack 8-ball game. No pacifier was thrown.

Although I could have easily written a short novel about this day, I think I'll bag it here. The omitted stuff we talked about during the class were mostly interwoven anecdotes from the Mosconi Cup, jump shots vs kick shots, Earl hand pressing his Elkmasters, etc, etc. Even though some of the drills/instructions were less spectacular, I must emphasize that all-in-all it was a very inspiring event that I will most likely carry with me for the rest of my life. Many thanks to Earl and Archer for being so classy to do this, and special kudos to Mark Cantrill for arranging it all -- I wouldn't mind a rinse and repeat. (Btw, hope your wife likes the wine.) It was also fun meeting Jay Helfert (oh man you are old... you must be like... 50 or something..? just teasing ;^)

Other than that, here are a few things that I also learned from this trip:

When my speedometer shows 148 mph, the GPS indicates that it's only 142 mph.

An excessive amount of Starbucks ice-coffee can save me some motel overnighting.

Sushi tastes best when shared with a hot Asian pool player.


-- peer

derekdisco
04-27-2008, 01:30 AM
pics or it didnt happen!!! just kidding. It looks like you had a fun time, I enjoyed reading your book report! Is this lil john you speak of from hattisburg mississippi??? I cant imagine him taking lessons.

bumpypickle
04-27-2008, 02:09 AM
Sushi tastes best when shared with a hot Asian pool player.


-- peer
Like Charlie Williams, Efren Reyes, or Sum Yung Guy?

mullyman
04-27-2008, 02:58 AM
Looks like you had a good time but it also looks like you're still the stubborn little butt head you were when you were in school. Why would you stand in front of a multiple time world champion and challenge what he says or toss your advice into the ring? For someone that looks around while they're down on a shot and pops the CB into the corner off the break in 8-ball that's pretty bold.
MULLY

JAM
04-27-2008, 03:04 AM
Interesting about the english usage, no pun intended -- well, maybe no pun intended! "All in all" is not hyphenated." :D

When I was being taught by better players than myself, they also told me the less english you use on the cueball, the better. According to them, if you get good position after every shot, you don't need to use english.

Interstingly, today, some pros I have spoken with do use quite a bit of english. My boyfriend uses a lot of english. I cannot envision him playing in a tournament not using english.

I think maybe beginners should not use english in order to allow them to get comfortable with the fundamentals of the game. Once you know the fundamentals, the english should be easier to learn.

I think my favorite english shot was drawing my rock when I used to play pool. I used a lot of low english for stopping the cueball. I knew how to apply low english well, but left, right, middle left, middle right, high left, and high right were not englishes I was comfortable with.

In a lesson setting, such as with Earl and Johnny, the students are players of all caliber, and I guess they have to adapt their instructions from student to student, separting the lions from the lambs.

JAM

mullyman
04-27-2008, 03:09 AM
Well, as far as using english goes I recall Buddy Hall saying somewhere that most pros use outside english on cut shots. They call it helping english because it allows you to hit the contact point and roll off of it rather than have the friction and push of the CB passing with center ball.
MULLY

worriedbeef
04-27-2008, 03:15 AM
with the english issue, it's all down to the style in which you play the game. earl has bags of it, and he plays the game so fluid and naturally and outside english is condusive to that style of play. spinning balls in and applying outside english on cut shots makes the balls collide more naturally. It's pool at it's most pure arguably, whereas the polar opposite of this would be stuns and centre ball hits on everything which is what's used in snooker.

mike sigel also comes to mind - in his instructional dvd he advocates ALWAYS using at least a tip of outside english on a cut shot. EDIT: and apparently buddy hall too.

you shouldn't have argued with Earl however - you were there to get as much information and instruction out of Earl as you can and learn from the way he plays the game. trying to convince him that something he does is wrong won't achieve anything.

SpiderWebComm
04-27-2008, 06:17 AM
For the same reason many players stroke the CB a little firmer to mitigate crappy equipment, I think pros use outside to lessen the chance of a skid from dirty balls. I understand Earl's perspective... all things being equal, if you're just as accurate with english vs. without, outside english is the higher % play. I think he's trying to say "become proficient in using it."

vaplaya
04-27-2008, 07:46 AM
Peer, Check out Bert Kinister's "Deflection" tape. It mentions Earl and explains how he and others aim in the center and apply english on the final stroke. I have just started practicing this tecnique , and while difficult at first, I am slowly getting the hang of it. Start with small amounts of english and work your way up.

SCCues
04-27-2008, 07:54 AM
I enjoyed reading your post about lessons from 2 of the best players in the pool world. I can understand why you went to the trouble you did to learn for Johnny and Earl and I hope that you learned something from both of them to help your pool game in the future. Thanks for taking the time to post this story and for passing on some of the tips.

James

Bob Jewett
04-27-2008, 12:22 PM
Peer, Check out Bert Kinister's "Deflection" tape. It mentions Earl and explains how he and others aim in the center and apply english on the final stroke. I have just started practicing this tecnique , and while difficult at first, I am slowly getting the hang of it. Start with small amounts of english and work your way up.
It's also called backhand english and aim-and-pivot. We have had several discussions of it. As a documented technique, it seems to be over 150 years old.

If you are just taking it up, it's important for you to learn the many places that it can't be used so it doesn't let you down on critical shots.

Russ Chewning
04-27-2008, 01:10 PM
It's also called backhand english and aim-and-pivot. We have had several discussions of it. As a documented technique, it seems to be over 150 years old.

If you are just taking it up, it's important for you to learn the many places that it can't be used so it doesn't let you down on critical shots.

I have seen a lot of people argue against BHE, and swear that the parallel-english method is more consistent. I do know one thing. A very good player from Washington state taught me BHE, and demonstrated it on a shot that you would swear he could make the ball do what it did, with such a soft stroke.

He did it though, and ended up embarassing the hell out of a strong shortstop in the process.

Russ

JoeyA
04-27-2008, 01:21 PM
Nice report, Peer. REP to ya.

Now let's talk about that hot Asian chick. Oh wait a minute.... What did you think about the hot Asian chick's game?

Ok a little more serious, can you now run more balls than before the school?

Thanks,
JoeyA

av84fun
04-27-2008, 04:45 PM
Thanks for the report. Sort of odd that you took a snooker cue to a pool lesson but hey, whatever works for ya.

But re: the guy who ragged on Earl for miscueing, you didn't recite exactly what was said but if I owned or managed the room the guy would have been told to not let the door hit him on the ass on they way out.

Totally disrespectful and out of line. Earl must have have been TOO offended because if he was, the guy certainly would have left the room...one way or the other.

Regards,
Jim

PETARD
04-27-2008, 08:49 PM
[QUOTE=Peer]Although I did quite well in school as a kid, I was never a good student, i.e., 'good' as in quietly accepting everything the teachers served us. This might also relate to my distaste I had for authorities at the time -- whether it was my teachers, parents, police, or any "high-horse" person that tried to imposed things on me -- I had a hard time conforming and taking orders.

Well, back then, my billiards/pool instructors also had a hard time making me do their exercises. To me it felt too militant as they forced us kids to practice 3-cushion, snooker, straight pool, and also rented a gym every Friday night for the obligatory workout -- the idea was to get us in shape for the long tournaments. The instructions were so fierce that many of us just lost that fun factor of playing, and gave up -- including myself. (However, my buddy somehow stuck with it, and won the 2007 team nationals, so I guess our instructors knew what they were doing.)

So, fast forward to present time, now living on a different continent and in very different times and circumstances. I'm a bit older but not necessarily much wiser, so I've again picked up this silly sport... and again let it consume my life. Hence, I would jump on any chance to improve my game, which, admittedly, hasn't improved much since I was a kid. So when a once-in-a-lifetime super master pool school was offered, instructed by none other than two world champions, Earl Strickland and Johnny Archer, there was NO WAY I would pass on it.

My concern wasn't as much the cost of the class or how far I had to travel, but more about how much one-on-one time I would possibly get with Earl and Archer. But when the organizer, Mark Cantrill, more or less assured me that there wouldn't be more than 5-10 students, I instantly packed the cue and hopped in my roadster to head towards Phoenix Arizona.

The next day, at noon, Tuesday the 22nd, after 12 hours of driving, I stepped into Kolby's Corner Pocket in Tempe. Johnny Archer was already there, drinking beer (well, root beer). As soon as Mark introduced me, a pregnant conversation emerged between Archer and I. Right away I could feel that this day was gonna be a great experience -- Archer being very friendly and down to earth.

Not long after, Mr. Larger Than Life -- Earl Strickland -- walks in, just like a rockstar. Right away he attracts all attention from everyone inside the poolhall. Earl didn't wait long before unpacking his funky cue (sporting tennis racket wrap), taping his fingers and starting to warmup/perform on the front table. Unfortunately it didn't take long until someone made fun of him miscuing, and Earl blew up: "I did not fly across the country just to get heckled." Great, just ****ing great -- even before the class had started, someone had to set Earl off in a tirade. Luckily that person wasn't part of the school, as I first feared.

When the class started, the final tally of students was only 6. Just then I was thinking about all the pool-players in this area who must have heard about the event, but yet chose to stay home... were they all idiots..?!

Anyways, the six of us got divided into two classes, three in each. My fellow pupils were Little John and Garrick. The three of us started off with Earl as our instructor. The other three had Archer. Two tables for each group.

The first thing Earl did was examine our "equipment", and sure enough he found my cue quite curious. For some reason, I decided to bring my 10mm John Parris snooker cue. Anyone who knows me also knows that I have no filter between my little brain and my big mouth. This, combined with a spontaneous mindset, have put me in quite a few ignominious situations. And this day was no different, as I rhetorically asked Earl why he hates us Europeans. Well, I might be exaggerating a bit, but it felt like everyone around me suddenly shied away, anticipating Earl punching my teeth out. But instead of taking aim at me, he said "I don't know how you folks can play with those toothpicks, so where in Europe are you from?" As I was getting ready to duck, I told him that I'm a Norwegian. Earl cracked a smile and then told a funny story (at the expense of us Norwegians of course) about when he once played in Oslo. It was hilarious, and also a very good icebreaker. From there on I could tell that he was in a very good mood. Actually, the entire time, Earl was very helpful and patient.

After talking a bit about cues, including pitching his custom made cue, Earl wanted to see each of us shoot a rack so he could determine what speed we played at. First up was Little John who ran that rack like a pro. Next was Garrick who also played as a champ. As I watched them run the balls with ease, knowing that I was up next, I couldn't help feeling like it was my first day in school as a kid -- waiting for my turn to stand up and tell who I am -- something that always gave me the shakes. And sure enough, when my turn was up, I played like a Chihuahua in a blizzard.

Among the shot exercises Earl showed us were a fairly straightforward cut & throw shots for position. However, it was interesting to discover that you couldn't actually see where Earl's tip hit the cueball -- as he always seems to aim dead center but at the very moment the shot is fired, he applies the english. It baffled me to a point where he let me stick my head in between his arm and body to watch it really close up. Yet, after repeating several monster stun shots, even from this angle, it was impossible to figure out where the cue actually hit the cueball. It didn't help much that Earl couldn't really explain this either.

To me, the highlight of Earl's session was his pattern play instructions, as this gave me some new ideas on how to run a table. Having a world champion talking you through a rack as you shoot is certainly inspiring.

At one point Earl set up a very tight cut shot, carefully marked with chalk. The purpose was to show that the only way to pocket a cut shot like this was to apply outside english. After trying to make the shot, over and over again, Earl concluded that he must have set it up too tight. Well, I started to argue that it would perhaps be easier (and more precise) to use no english but just focus on hitting it as thin as possible and hard. My fellow student Garrick agreed. But when Earl insisted that there was no way to make this shot without outside english, to his dismay I stepped up and made the shot, with no english at all (and with my gnarly European snooker cue I may add). Earl wasn't too happy.

This led to a discussion on what would be the safest way to pocket a long cut shot when no position play was required. I would think a natural roll (e.g. center follow) would be the best shot. Earl emphatically disagreed, telling us that we should always put outside english with some draw on all long cut shots. Just as for the previous thin cut shot that he missed, I again argued that the more english you apply to a shot, the more factors are introduced that you somehow have to contend with. Whether it's squirt, throw, or swerve, those factors will also be compounded by, for example, different table cloths, or from one set of balls to another, etc. Earl, who actually complained quite a bit that the balls we used were too light, completely dismissed my reasoning and insisted that we should ALWAYS use english.

As an instructor, Earl isn't very analytical but rather intuitive. This is perhaps why I think the combination of Earl and Archer worked quite well, especially since Archer's approach is very systematic and precise -- i.e, very different from Earl. The only problem arose when there was some "de-learning" from one instructor to next.

The first thing Archer corrected was the high finger-tip bridge that Earl taught us. He also adjusted the stance and shortened my bridge.

Archer is what I would call a good traditional instructor, being very perceptive to the different needs each student has. Archer was also more open to discussion and very responsive to my (often) inane questions -- not only answering, but often rebutting me by setting up other scenarios related to my initial question. Very helpful and comprehensive. Besides, he's a funny fellow -- very easy to get along with. For instance, in the midst of watching me repeat some draw/position shots, he walked up and smacked my bridge hand with his cue. Apparently, I forgot what he had earlier showed me -- how important it is to keep my palm firmly planted on the table.

Another thing Archer helped me correct, was that I often looked around the table while already being set up to shoot. This urged him to talk in length about how important it is to prepare your shot and make all decisions standing up. Don't bend down until you are completely ready to shoot, and if any doubt arises, you should stand up again and rethink -- never recalculate or adjust while in shooting position. He also illustrated this by chalk-marking his bridge hand for a left-english shot, and then marked the same shot for right-english. To no surprise, the discrepancy between the bridge-hand positions was staggering.

During last portion of Archer's session, he had us pick any game of our choice and play one rack with him as he would tell us his thought-process while shooting. Since the tables had very wide pockets, I knew I could run an 8-ball rack on him, so I opted to lag for the break, that I won, which then set me up for a slow 2nd ball break shot. So here I've been driving 1,600 miles to get lessons from the greatest of the greatest, and when I finally got to show off my 8-ball game, on the break I smacked the cueball straight off the rack into the corner pocket. Yeah, nice going there, Peer. So it was Archer who instead got to run the table -- oh well -- hell. As soon as the ridicule had subsided, I instead persuaded Earl to make a video of us playing for his cue (as we had spoken about earlier that day). At first he agreed, but as I was getting my camera ready, he chickened out. He told me that I could still buy the cue and make a video of him while signing it, but he didn't wanna risk a video of me beating him in a one-rack 8-ball game. No pacifier was thrown.

Although I could have easily written a short novel about this day, I think I'll bag it here. The omitted stuff we talked about during the class were mostly interwoven anecdotes from the Mosconi Cup, jump shots vs kick shots, Earl hand pressing his Elkmasters, etc, etc. Even though some of the drills/instructions were less spectacular, I must emphasize that all-in-all it was a very inspiring event that I will most likely carry with me for the rest of my life. Many thanks to Earl and Archer for being so classy to do this, and special kudos to Mark Cantrill for arranging it all -- I wouldn't mind a rinse and repeat. (Btw, hope your wife likes the wine.) It was also fun meeting Jay Helfert (oh man you are old... you must be like... 50 or something..? just teasing ;^)

Other than that, here are a few things that I also learned from this trip:

When my speedometer shows 148 mph, the GPS indicates that it's only 142 mph.

An excessive amount of Starbucks ice-coffee can save me some motel overnighting.

Sushi tastes best when shared with a hot Asian pool player.

AS YOUR CLASSMATE WITH EARL AND JOHNNY, I MUST DISAGREE WITH THE DESCRIPTION THAT JOHNNNY "CORRECTED" THE HIGH BRIDGE EARL HAD PRESENTED TO US. JOHNNY MADE IT CLEAR TO ME AND I THOUGHT TO THE GROUP THAT HE WAS NOT CORRECTING EARL'S GRIP BUT MAKING IT CLEAR HE DOESN'T TEACH THAT BRIDGE BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE EARL'S WRONG. STEVE MIZERAK TOLD ME THAT WE ARE THE BEST COACHES AND SHOULD TRY EVERYONE'S APPROACH AND SELECT THE ONE WE PREFER. I THINK THAT IS WHAT EARL AND JOHNNY PROVIDED. NICE TO MEET YOU AND I ENJOYED IT AS MUCH AS YOU DID.HOT ASIAN PLAYER IS GREAT WITH ANYTHING

JOHN

Scott Lee
04-28-2008, 02:45 AM
Probably because Earl is completely WRONG insisting that you should play outside english on ALL long cut shots. That is ludicrous...I don't care how many championships he's won. While it may work for him, it will not work for many players. I bet that Archer would not advocate that advice!

It reminds me of my mentor, Jack White, who insisted that he NEVER shot off center more than one tip...but did what he called "load up the rock" (get tons of english)! It took me two years, and finally close up, slow motion, stop-action video, to prove to him that he was, indeed, hitting much farther off the center of the CB than he would admit to...which was responsible for the amazing spin he could get on the CB.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Why would you stand in front of a multiple time world champion and challenge what he says or toss your advice into the ring?

MULLY

CocoboloCowboy
04-28-2008, 04:50 AM
Are Earl and Johhny know best as great teacher, or great players.

Bob Jewett
04-28-2008, 09:17 AM
... insisted that he NEVER shot off center more than one tip...but did what he called "load up the rock" (get tons of english)! It took me two years, and finally close up, slow motion, stop-action video, to prove to him that he was, indeed, hitting much farther off the center of the CB than he would admit to... ...
There are still some pretty good players who believe that they can hit the cue ball in the center and get lively draw. It sort of reminds me of my friend in high school who would try to get extreme follow on the cue ball and end up drawing it. Elbow lift.

bfdlad
04-28-2008, 09:52 AM
Hey guys, this is Mark. Thank you for your review of the pool school, the pro told me after that this was the best way to run a school so that people can get the most out of it. I would have liked to have more peope there but we learned something, UP the price a bit and keep the school small. It is more intimate and you can get more out of it, this was the first time that Earl and johnny have worked together like this and so it was a learning experience for them too. We plan on working on this and as we go it will get more exposure and we will be able to charge a little more (I know that is not what anyone wants to hear) As far as Johnny correcting you, I was not watching everything that happened BUT the idea of these kind of schools IMO is if you cant take a little from Earl and a little from Johnny and use what you feel comfortable with and if you only learn one thing that will improve your game in the future then you cam out ahead. While the school was going on I was asking the students how it was going etc. One of them (can't remember who) told me that they had already learned something after about an hour and that the $200.00 had already paid for it's self. That was the whole idea. After the Earl exhibition and Efren and Scott one pocket match on May 2nd and 3rd I plan of working on more pool schools. Maybe taking it on the road to some of the places in the country that don't get these kind of opportunities very often. Thank you again for attending to all the students and that you all for your support in the school.

CocoboloCowboy
04-28-2008, 10:33 AM
There are still some pretty good players who believe that they can hit the cue ball in the center and get lively draw. It sort of reminds me of my friend in high school who would try to get extreme follow on the cue ball and end up drawing it. Elbow lift.

Great observation. http://www.geocities.com/cocobolocowboy/arff.gif

mullyman
04-28-2008, 10:35 AM
Probably because Earl is completely WRONG insisting that you should play outside english on ALL long cut shots. That is ludicrous...I don't care how many championships he's won. While it may work for him, it will not work for many players. I bet that Archer would not advocate that advice!

It reminds me of my mentor, Jack White, who insisted that he NEVER shot off center more than one tip...but did what he called "load up the rock" (get tons of english)! It took me two years, and finally close up, slow motion, stop-action video, to prove to him that he was, indeed, hitting much farther off the center of the CB than he would admit to...which was responsible for the amazing spin he could get on the CB.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Even if he was wrong I don't think it's the place of someone trying to learn from him to try and put him in his place and make him look the fool. If you, figuratively speaking, don't have his credentials then your opinion means nothing.
MULLY

Neil
04-28-2008, 11:06 AM
................

av84fun
04-28-2008, 11:29 AM
Even if he was wrong I don't think it's the place of someone trying to learn from him to try and put him in his place and make him look the fool. If you, figuratively speaking, don't have his credentials then your opinion means nothing.
MULLY

I think that we would have had to have been there to hear exactly what was said and in what context.

Earl obviously likes to spin the CB and so do a LOT of other pros who have advised..."Let the spin do the work"...meaning that you can shoot much more softly than most amateurs do and still get plenty of CB distance from the spin off the rails.

I assume your comment was directed to Peer and not Scott Lee who has huge "credentials."

Just because he is not a world champion means exactly zero regarding his knowledge and his ability to convey that knowledge to students.

If being a "champion" was a prerequisite for being a great teacher, then millions of students are wasting huge sums of money by attending college.

The old saying that "Those who can do and those who can't, teach." is one of the dumbest sayings of all time.

It should be restated to "Those who can do and those who can teach, teach."

Proof? Follow the money. Hundreds of billions of dollars have been donated by college alumnai funds by college graduates who make those contributions in gratitude of the education they received from professors...most of whom have never held jobs in the sectors about which they teach.

Regards,
Jim

Bob Jewett
04-28-2008, 11:41 AM
... If you, figuratively speaking, don't have his credentials then your opinion means nothing. ...
Well, no. If you see enough champions up close and in person you will find out that some of them are excellent students of the game and some of them are completely clueless about a lot of things that some of us struggle to learn. Note that I'm not saying who is which in the particular case being discussed, I'm just pointing out that I've heard some world champions spouting buffoonery. It's possible for some students to tell wheat from chaff without being able to run 11 racks.

As to your first point, that's covered in http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2005-09.pdf which discusses giving and taking lessons. Peer may have followed the wrong strategy to get the most out of his time in AZ. In the end, the benefit of those lessons will show up in a change in his game. If his game does not change, the lessons were worthless to him. I'll watch him closely and report his progress.

bfdlad
04-28-2008, 11:46 AM
Ok, lets not blow this out of proportion. Here is basically what happened PLEASE listen. Earl showed his students at the time the way his does things and how he does it, then Johnny showed them the way he does it. Obviously both are different styles and you take what works for you or what you feel comfortable with. Please keep this thread positive for me. If it becomes negative then it will hurt me when trying to put another together and maybe stop anyone else from getting a chance to attend a pool school. I do my best to bring things new and different here to PHX and if this turns negative it will only make an already tough job harderr to do. Thanks, and I hope you understand.

CocoboloCowboy
04-28-2008, 11:56 AM
Think you need to work on another Pool School, after the Summer HEAT like October, as I think the last one was on short notice, and had the lead time been longer you would have had more students hungry for Pool Knowledge.

Neil
04-28-2008, 12:41 PM
...............

mullyman
04-28-2008, 03:43 PM
Do you guys know what "figuratively speaking" means? It means that I when I said "you" to Scott I wasn't saying "you" meaning him personally but "you" meaning people in general.

Also, if you find a thread about "Who would you like to learn from?" , or something to that effect, I stated that just because someone is a great player doesn't mean they are a great teacher. Earl may be a horrible teacher, but he's still a world champion and if you're taking a lesson from him you should listen and not get cocky with him. It's one thing to ask his opinion but the way this guy presented himself in his original post it seemed fairly clear that he probably TOLD Earl Strickland that he wasn't right. Takes a large set to do something like that if you ask me.
MULLY

Scott Lee
04-28-2008, 03:58 PM
tap, tap, tap!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

The top instructors have become that for a reason. They don't just have one persons point of view, they have hundreds of points of view all combined for the best results.

JoeyA
04-28-2008, 04:47 PM
To John & Peer:

Did Johnny Archer tell you or show you how to apply English?
1. If so, was it like Strickland, PIM, pivot in motion, swiping across the cue ball on the final stroke to get the needed English?

2. Set up with English, anticipating cue ball deflection and aiming to counteract the squirt & swerve.

3. Aim shot with centerball, then move backhand to apply needed English, then make final stroke.

4. Front hand English.

5. Other.

Thanks,
JoeyA

JoeyA
04-28-2008, 05:09 PM
I have taken MANY lessons from professional pool players. Each of them had their own unique perspective about pool and how to give a pool lesson.

I will often ask them to clarify things that I either didn't understand or things that I disagreed privately with. You would never catch me attempting to embarass them by correcting them even if I knew they didn't know what squerve meant. :)

It has been most beneficial to me to ask questions and listen carefully to their explanation. Even good teachers have their agenda and will communicate what they want you to hear.

So for pool lessons, I suggest: Listen, ask questions, listen and say thank you.

After the lesson, you choose what to keep and what to discard.

Often, the problem in communication is not with the teacher but with the student and sometimes it can be either or both. ;)

JoeyA

Neil
04-28-2008, 05:23 PM
.............

Peer
04-28-2008, 06:27 PM
pics or it didnt happen!!!

There were pictures taken by a photographer, and I think Mark said he's gonna send those out.



Sushi tastes best when shared with a hot Asian pool player.


Like Charlie Williams, Efren Reyes, or Sum Yung Guy?

Perhaps you think those guys are hot, that's okay. But no offense, I tend to exclusively elevate towards the X chromosomes when it comes to hotties.


Interstingly, today, some pros I have spoken with do use quite a bit of english. My boyfriend uses a lot of english. I cannot envision him playing in a tournament not using english.

Also I happen to use english on pretty much all my shots, but if you read my post, I think it's clear that this wasn't really the issue.

Interesting about the english usage, no pun intended -- well, maybe no pun intended! "All in all" is not hyphenated."

Since you seem to be so keen on correcting my English, perhaps you should check yours first..? ("Interstingly" "separting", etc.)


I enjoyed reading your post about lessons from 2 of the best players in the pool world. I can understand why you went to the trouble you did to learn for Johnny and Earl and I hope that you learned something from both of them to help your pool game in the future. Thanks for taking the time to post this story and for passing on some of the tips.

Oh, thank you. I think I learned quite a bit, perhaps not necessarily the intended stuff. As I said, the highlight of Earl's session was his pattern play instructions which gave me some new ideas.


But re: the guy who ragged on Earl for miscueing, you didn't recite exactly what was said but if I owned or managed the room the guy would have been told to not let the door hit him on the ass on they way out. Totally disrespectful and out of line.

He might have left shortly after, I dunno. I agree, it wasn't very tactful, even if it perhaps was intended as a joke.


AS YOUR CLASSMATE WITH EARL AND JOHNNY, I MUST DISAGREE WITH THE DESCRIPTION THAT JOHNNNY "CORRECTED" THE HIGH BRIDGE EARL HAD PRESENTED TO US. JOHNNY MADE IT CLEAR TO ME AND I THOUGHT TO THE GROUP THAT HE WAS NOT CORRECTING EARL'S GRIP BUT MAKING IT CLEAR HE DOESN'T TEACH THAT BRIDGE BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE EARL'S WRONG. NICE TO MEET YOU AND I ENJOYED IT AS MUCH AS YOU DID.

Don't know if you remember that Archer indeed corrected my bridge hand several times, the last was when he whacked it with his cue. Of course both Earl and Archer have mutual respect for each other, and hence won't impose their teaching over the others. Anyways, as I said earlier, it was very nice meeting both you and Garrick. And yes, it was a brilliant day.

-- peer

Peer
04-28-2008, 06:40 PM
Earl may be a horrible teacher, but he's still a world champion and if you're taking a lesson from him you should listen and not get cocky with him. It's one thing to ask his opinion but the way this guy presented himself in his original post it seemed fairly clear that he probably TOLD Earl Strickland that he wasn't right. Takes a large set to do something like that if you ask me.
MULLY


This is pure bovine excrement. Reading your post had me laughing out loud even as I winced at the depiction. It's sad indeed that you apparently cannot recognize the real content of your own remarks. YOU WEREN'T EVEN PRESENT AT THIS EVENT, BUT YET YOU'RE TELLING PEOPLE ON THIS FORM HOW I MISTREATED EARL.

In contrary to the stories you concoct, I can tell you -- since I was there -- that no one "got cocky with him", no one "told him that he wasn't right", no one "made him look the fool", no one discredited "his credentials", no one said he's "a horrible teacher", no one "challenge him", and no one (in the class) disrespected him -- not a single bit.

Again, both Earl and Archer were very friendly and helpful -- their class was a very hands-on informal "show-you-some-stuff" type of class. Since it was quite interactive, naturally different ideas were tossed around. And as I said, the entire event was most inspiring and comprehensive, and I certainly hope Mark can get Earl and Archer to do this again.

Hope this clarifies it for you, Mr. Mullyman.

-- peer

Scott Lee
04-28-2008, 07:15 PM
mullyman...I knew you were not talking about me specifically. I also agree with your viewpoint of not 'ridiculing' your instructor, whoever it may be. However...a student has the right to voice an opinion, or ask any question directly related to the lesson material. As was mentioned by others; just because someone is a world champion doesn't necessarily mean that they know everything they're talking about. That's why all lessons (and instructors) have to be taken with a 'grain of salt', allowing each individual student to choose what information they believe is beneficial to them, and discard or ignore things that are not. I think this "clinic" was a wonderful opportunity for the people who were there, and hopefully it will be repeated in other areas of the country. :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Do you guys know what "figuratively speaking" means? It means that I when I said "you" to Scott I wasn't saying "you" meaning him personally but "you" meaning people in general.

Also, if you find a thread about "Who would you like to learn from?" , or something to that effect, I stated that just because someone is a great player doesn't mean they are a great teacher. Earl may be a horrible teacher, but he's still a world champion and if you're taking a lesson from him you should listen and not get cocky with him. It's one thing to ask his opinion but the way this guy presented himself in his original post it seemed fairly clear that he probably TOLD Earl Strickland that he wasn't right. Takes a large set to do something like that if you ask me.
MULLY

Scott Lee
04-28-2008, 07:24 PM
Bob...Fast Larry calls it "top draw"! :rolleyes: :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

There are still some pretty good players who believe that they can hit the cue ball in the center and get lively draw. It sort of reminds me of my friend in high school who would try to get extreme follow on the cue ball and end up drawing it. Elbow lift.

av84fun
04-28-2008, 07:44 PM
I have taken MANY lessons from professional pool players. Each of them had their own unique perspective about pool and how to give a pool lesson.

I will often ask them to clarify things that I either didn't understand or things that I disagreed privately with. You would never catch me attempting to embarass them by correcting them even if I knew they didn't know what squerve meant. :)

It has been most beneficial to me to ask questions and listen carefully to their explanation. Even good teachers have their agenda and will communicate what they want you to hear.

So for pool lessons, I suggest: Listen, ask questions, listen and say thank you.

After the lesson, you choose what to keep and what to discard.

Often, the problem in communication is not with the teacher but with the student and sometimes it can be either or both. ;)

JoeyA

Joey, I think your comment touches on the issue of having some reason to know whether you are in the presence of an "instructor" or a "teacher."

Anyone with information can "instruct" by merely giving instructions regarding what they do.

A TEACHER, is that special breed who can isolate the student's strengths and weaknesses and adopt the VARIOUS ways of going about playing the games of pool in a way most likely to benefit THAT GIVEN STUDENT.

If you are in a session with a known TEACHER, I would be very, VERY reluctant to pick and coose from there teacher's advice because I know from personal experience that it can take weeks if not MONTHS to fully adapt (into the subconscious) some of the most critical advice the teacher recommended.

Often, the student will go BACKWARD while incorporating the vital advice given. Most good teachers will WARN the student of that.

On the other hand, not all great champions are great teachers. My buddy Bobby Pickle...when he brings his A game can and has beaten just about everyone...once very excitedly said "Jimmy, let's work on 3 rail banks."

I said "GREAT...how do you do it." He got sort of a funny look on his face and said..."I don't know, I just do it."

After I got up off the floor from laughing we proceeded to work on other things.

I'm just saying that if your TEACHER gives you advice and you reject it without giving the advice a serious and lengthy trial, you either are afraid that the person giving the advice was not a good teacher or you wasted your money.

Regards,
Jim

mullyman
04-28-2008, 09:14 PM
This is pure bovine excrement. Reading your post had me laughing out loud even as I winced at the depiction. It's sad indeed that you apparently cannot recognize the real content of your own remarks. YOU WEREN'T EVEN PRESENT AT THIS EVENT, BUT YET YOU'RE TELLING PEOPLE ON THIS FORM HOW I MISTREATED EARL.

In contrary to the stories you concoct, I can tell you -- since I was there -- that no one "got cocky with him", no one "told him that he wasn't right", no one "made him look the fool", no one discredited "his credentials", no one said he's "a horrible teacher", no one "challenge him", and no one (in the class) disrespected him -- not a single bit.

Again, both Earl and Archer were very friendly and helpful -- their class was a very hands-on informal "show-you-some-stuff" type of class. Since it was quite interactive, naturally different ideas were tossed around. And as I said, the entire event was most inspiring and comprehensive, and I certainly hope Mark can get Earl and Archer to do this again.

Hope this clarifies it for you, Mr. Mullyman.

-- peer


Well, you say it's a bunch of bull poopy but explain this. In your own words you said:

Although I did quite well in school as a kid, I was never a good student, i.e., 'good' as in quietly accepting everything the teachers served us. This might also relate to my distaste I had for authorities at the time -- whether it was my teachers, parents, police, or any "high-horse" person that tried to imposed things on me -- I had a hard time conforming and taking orders.

Why even mention that you have problems with authority figures unless you're trying to justify some kind of behavior on your part? In all fairness, your problems with authority figures should have nothing to do with pool school........unless of course you challenged the teacher.....which it seems like you did.


Then you said....

At one point Earl set up a very tight cut shot, carefully marked with chalk. The purpose was to show that the only way to pocket a cut shot like this was to apply outside english. After trying to make the shot, over and over again, Earl concluded that he must have set it up too tight. Well, I started to argue that it would perhaps be easier (and more precise) to use no english but just focus on hitting it as thin as possible and hard. My fellow student Garrick agreed. But when Earl insisted that there was no way to make this shot without outside english, to his dismay I stepped up and made the shot, with no english at all (and with my gnarly European snooker cue I may add). Earl wasn't too happy.

I can see you telling him "You don't need spin on that shot" then telling him "Here, let me take a shot at it." Again, I'm assuming this from the way you presented yourself as having a problem with authority figrues.

Then you go on to say:

This led to a discussion on what would be the safest way to pocket a long cut shot when no position play was required. I would think a natural roll (e.g. center follow) would be the best shot. Earl emphatically disagreed, telling us that we should always put outside english with some draw on all long cut shots. Just as for the previous thin cut shot that he missed, I again argued that the more english you apply to a shot, the more factors are introduced that you somehow have to contend with. Whether it's squirt, throw, or swerve, those factors will also be compounded by, for example, different table cloths, or from one set of balls to another, etc. Earl, who actually complained quite a bit that the balls we used were too light, completely dismissed my reasoning and insisted that we should ALWAYS use english.

Now, you can say what you like, but these are the words YOU used to describe yourself and the way you handled those situations. Maybe because I'm a high school teacher I'm imagining some of my students that act the way you describe yourself. If I'm wrong I apologize but again, only going by what you said.
MULLY

Peer
04-28-2008, 09:57 PM
In all fairness, your problems with authority figures should have nothing to do with pool school........unless of course you challenged the teacher.....which it seems like you did.
[...]
I can see you telling him "You don't need spin on that shot" then telling him "Here, let me take a shot at it." Again, I'm assuming this from the way you presented yourself as having a problem with authority figrues.


I understand that you prefer to "see" things your way, but I don't appreciate it. Below you'll find a copy & paste of my clarification to you. Instead of going on with your skewed gestimates of an event that you weren't even part of, could you please read it -- I'm sure if you put your mind into it, you'll understand what ACTUALLY happened, and what did not happen:

This is pure bovine excrement. Reading your post had me laughing out loud even as I winced at the depiction. It's sad indeed that you apparently cannot recognize the real content of your own remarks. YOU WEREN'T EVEN PRESENT AT THIS EVENT, BUT YET YOU'RE TELLING PEOPLE ON THIS FORM HOW I MISTREATED EARL.

In contrary to the stories you concoct, I can tell you -- since I was there -- that no one "got cocky with him", no one "told him that he wasn't right", no one "made him look the fool", no one discredited "his credentials", no one said he's "a horrible teacher", no one "challenged him", and no one (in the class) disrespected him -- not a single bit.

Again, both Earl and Archer were very friendly and helpful -- their class was a very hands-on informal "show-you-some-stuff" type of class. Since it was quite interactive, naturally different ideas were tossed around. And as I said, the entire event was most inspiring and comprehensive, and I certainly hope Mark can get Earl and Archer to do this again.

Hope this clarifies it for you, Mr. Mullyman.

-- peer

mullyman
04-28-2008, 10:05 PM
Well, like I said, just going by the way you wrote the story and I apologized if I was wrong. If you can't accept that then there's not much I can say to make things better.

I'm glad you enjoyed the session and wish I had the same opportunity. I hope you got something out of it that will improve your game.
MULLY

Peer
04-28-2008, 10:09 PM
I hope you got something out of it that will improve your game.

Again, if you read my post, you would KNOW that I did get quite a bit out of this. Isn't literacy a bliss..?

-- peer

worriedbeef
04-28-2008, 10:11 PM
Peer,

You may well have been perfectly polite and respectful with Earl.

But there's no denying that the way you worded your original post implies you were a bit argumentative with Earl, and undermined his authority of being the teacher.

If this is not the case then once again, apologies, but you cant complain with people thinking this because of the way you worded your original post.

mullyman
04-28-2008, 10:14 PM
Well, you've obviosuly got your feelings hurt and feel the need to insult me because I spoke against you. The "I hope you got something out of it" line was a general statement and wasn't intended to be taken as a slice at you.
MULLY

mullyman
04-28-2008, 10:16 PM
Peer,

You may well have been perfectly polite and respectful with Earl.

But there's no denying that the way you worded your original post implies you were a bit argumentative with Earl, and undermined his authority of being the teacher.

If this is not the case then once again, apologies, but you cant complain with people thinking this because of the way you worded your original post.


Exactly my point. I wasn't trying to insult peer with my post.
MULLY

Peer
04-28-2008, 10:24 PM
If this is not the case then once again, apologies, but you cant complain with people thinking this because of the way you worded your original post.

Apologies accepted. If Earl himself (or anyone at the event) would've complained about my questions, it would certainly have had some weight. But all this phony fabrication of how badly I treated Earl is just silly. And no, Mully, my "feelings" aren't hurt. Again, you are silly.

Love, peace, and understanding,

-- peer

av84fun
04-28-2008, 10:54 PM
Apologies accepted. If Earl himself (or anyone at the event) would've complained about my questions, it would certainly have had some weight. But all this phony fabrication of how badly I treated Earl is just silly. And no, Mully, my "feelings" aren't hurt. Again, you are silly.

Love, peace, and understanding,

-- peer

All right...enough is enough. To quote all the disrespectful things you posted about Earl would require copying nearly your entire original post but I will spare us much of it.

What is CLEAR is that, as a Brit, you have a jones for Earl...probably for the way he got into it with Peach. If you think...as you seem to...that you are a clever enough author to bury your rather scathing comments about him in some sort of clever prose you are badly mistaken.

This is what you wrote, in part...so you own it.

Not long after, Mr. Larger Than Life -- Earl Strickland -- walks in, just like a rockstar. Right away he attracts all attention from everyone inside the poolhall. Earl didn't wait long before unpacking his funky cue (sporting tennis racket wrap), taping his fingers and starting to warmup/perform on the front table. Unfortunately it didn't take long until someone made fun of him miscuing, and Earl blew up: "I did not fly across the country just to get heckled." Great, just ****ing great -- even before the class had started, someone had to set Earl off in a tirade.

"Walks in like a rock star"..."funky cue with tennis racket wrap"...suggesting that he "blew up" and went into a "tirade." Didn't sound like a "tirade" to me.

I rhetorically asked Earl why he hates us Europeans.

An obvious reference to the Peach incident and no matter HOW it was asked...with feigned humor or not...it wasn't FUNNY.

And taking your snooker "tooth pick" to a POOL lesson was a very thinly disguised act of rebellion that you proudly announced you had a habit of in school. You seem to fancy yourself some sort of Cool Hand Luke but I suspect that you are not.


At one point Earl set up a very tight cut shot, carefully marked with chalk. The purpose was to show that the only way to pocket a cut shot like this was to apply outside english. After trying to make the shot, over and over again, Earl concluded that he must have set it up too tight. Well, I started to argue that it would perhaps be easier (and more precise) to use no english but just focus on hitting it as thin as possible and hard. My fellow student Garrick agreed. But when Earl insisted that there was no way to make this shot without outside english, to his dismay I stepped up and made the shot, with no english at all (and with my gnarly European snooker cue I may add). Earl wasn't too happy.

So, there you are...an admitted banger...and you wish us to believe that you were showing that old, broken down war horse (in YOUR opinion) a thing or two about the game of pool, was just LUDICROUS.

Personally, I doubt very seriously that it happened the way you wrote it but if it did, you should be ashamed of yourself.

This led to a discussion on what would be the safest way to pocket a long cut shot when no position play was required. I would think a natural roll (e.g. center follow) would be the best shot. Earl emphatically disagreed, telling us that we should always put outside english with some draw on all long cut shots. Just as for the previous thin cut shot that he missed, I again argued that the more english you apply to a shot, the more factors are introduced that you somehow have to contend with.

Again, you assert that Earl doesn't know what he's talking about but YOU DO!....Yeah, right.

In addition, I doubt very seriously that Earl ever stated that ALL long cut shots ought to be attempted with outside english and draw.

All in all, you cannot possibly escape the fact that your post was insulting to Earl and that it was INTENDED to be.

Finally...what do you mean by "bovine excrement?"

Do you mean bull shit? If so, you should have written "male bovine excrement" because not all bovine's are bulls. In fact, not all bovines are even cattle at all but can be oxen or buffalo.

Regards,
Jim

PS: Peach had it coming.

(-:

JAM
04-29-2008, 01:35 AM
Again, if you read my post, you would KNOW that I did get quite a bit out of this. Isn't literacy a bliss..?

-- peer

I am sure many members wish they did not respond to this thread you initiated.

There is a difference between a typo and a blatant error. In my response to you about "all-in-all," which was in jest by the way, I was trying to politely let you know that these words are not hyphenated in that context. I see this mistake all the time with newbie typists. Recently, I learned something new about the word "comaradarie," which I had been typing mistakenly as comradery for years.

There is no comaradarie on this forum when you respond flippantly to well-meaning posters.

Don't bother to reply to this post. I'm done with you and this sad thread. The majority of responders to this thread are probably wishing they did not post either. :(

JAM

Peer
04-29-2008, 01:44 AM
All right...enough is enough.


Jim, you are so right -- I'm a fraud. Therefore I take everything back. The truth, as you so eloquently pointed out, is that I hate Earl and hence treated him like shit, from start to finish. I even hate the car he drives. And don't get me started on that silly Archer guy. If I so much see his dog, I gonna kick the crap out of that sucker.

Are you happy now...?

-- peer (who believes smilies are for wussies)

Luxury
04-29-2008, 02:21 AM
The amusing thing about forum arguments is the copy and paste feature and the way it can be dissected. Real life verbal arguments can't be exploited like this.

People who are full of it and try to deny what they've already said must get a lot more frustrated on a forum when in real life they have gotten away with playing dumb for so long.

cuetechasaurus
04-29-2008, 04:46 AM
At one point Earl set up a very tight cut shot, carefully marked with chalk. The purpose was to show that the only way to pocket a cut shot like this was to apply outside english. After trying to make the shot, over and over again, Earl concluded that he must have set it up too tight. Well, I started to argue that it would perhaps be easier (and more precise) to use no english but just focus on hitting it as thin as possible and hard. My fellow student Garrick agreed. But when Earl insisted that there was no way to make this shot without outside english, to his dismay I stepped up and made the shot, with no english at all (and with my gnarly European snooker cue I may add). Earl wasn't too happy.


-- peer

Peer, can you please diagram the shot that Earl said can only be made with outside english? Thanks

mullyman
04-29-2008, 04:55 AM
Hmmm, what kind of car does Earl drive?
MULLY

Peer
04-29-2008, 05:35 AM
Peer, can you please diagram the shot that Earl said can only be made with outside english? Thanks

Well, I'm not sure which one you are thinking of. The shot that I set up for Earl, that I phrased to him as "if it was for your life to pocket this ball, and no position play was requited, what english, if any, would you use?"

He opted for a draw outside english, and easily made the shot:

http://cuetable.com/P/?@4IDVe2PEec4dDVe4daEa2kEec4kCoN@%22%20noresize=%2 2noresize%22%20marginheight=%220%22%20marginwidth= %220%22%20frameborder=%22no%22%20width=%22660%22%2 0height=%22430%22%20%3E



The other one, that Earl set up himself, was a very tight cut, which he used heavy english on, but never managed to make, even after quite a few tries. This was the one I made right away with no english but cut it in hard & thin:

http://cuetable.com/P/?@4HFSC3POiw4dGYI4daEa3kOiw4kDWB@%22%20noresize=%2 2noresize%22%20marginheight=%220%22%20marginwidth= %220%22%20frameborder=%22no%22%20width=%22660%22%2 0height=%22430%22%20%3@%22%20noresize=%22noresize% 22%20marginheight=%220%22%20marginwidth=%220%22%20 frameborder=%22no%22%20width=%22660%22%20height=%2 2430%22%20%3E

Peer
04-29-2008, 05:35 AM
Hmmm, what kind of car does Earl drive?
MULLY

I bet it's a beige one, with chrome hubcaps.

-- peer

Rick S.
04-29-2008, 10:17 AM
http://www.pbase.com/rixx/image/96340874.jpg

CocoboloCowboy
04-29-2008, 10:47 AM
IMHO this thread has gone to Doo Doo, and that is too bad as it seems to me that those who attended all seem to be happy with what they got for their School Fee..http://www.geocities.com/cocobolocowboy/fragged.gif

av84fun
04-29-2008, 10:48 AM
Jim, you are so right -- I'm a fraud. Therefore I take everything back. The truth, as you so eloquently pointed out, is that I hate Earl and hence treated him like shit, from start to finish. I even hate the car he drives. And don't get me started on that silly Archer guy. If I so much see his dog, I gonna kick the crap out of that sucker.

Are you happy now...?

-- peer (who believes smilies are for wussies)

By the way...is that you in your avatar? What happened to the guy's eyebrows? Looks like he was attacked with a weed whacker!

(-:

Peer
04-29-2008, 11:23 AM
By the way...is that you in your avatar? What happened to the guy's eyebrows? Looks like he was attacked with a weed whacker!

You are so very kind.

(yea, now also I realize that this thread has gone doo doo ;^)

-- peer

av84fun
04-29-2008, 11:45 AM
You are so very kind.

(yea, now also I realize that this thread has gone doo doo ;^)

-- peer

Well...you sent me rep to "tease you" as you put it...so I'm just teasing you back.

And is that "doo doo" from a bovine quadraped or is it just any old run of the mill doo doo?

Again...just teasing....no biggie.

(-:

Bigdogbret
04-29-2008, 01:40 PM
So did they send you off with anything on paper that you could refer to later? Drills? Practice tips?

As a teacher by profession, I find students will forget most of what they are taught pretty quickly without something to help refresh their memory.

Peer
04-30-2008, 04:48 AM
So did they send you off with anything on paper that you could refer to later? Drills? Practice tips?

As a teacher by profession, I find students will forget most of what they are taught pretty quickly without something to help refresh their memory.

No. As I said earlier, this class wasn't a traditional/typical pool-class, but more like an interactive hands-on informal "show-you-some-stuff" type of class.

-- peer

Flex
04-30-2008, 05:58 AM
Bob...Fast Larry calls it "top draw"! :rolleyes: :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Scott, I saw him demonstrate how he shoots draw shots. When I say demonstrate, he didn't just say, "Watch this!" but he showed exactly how to jack up and jab the cue ball and get the required draw. And I saw him do that center ball "top draw" thing too.

IMHO, there are times when those shots are called for, and may be the only way to shoot the shot given where the cue ball actually lies.

He is, after all, a trick shot artist, and sure can pull off some doozies.

Respectfully,

Flex

Peer
05-27-2008, 07:19 AM
pics or it didnt happen!!! just kidding. It looks like you had a fun time, I enjoyed reading your book report!

Okay, here's a picture that I just got of Earl, me, and Archer... courtesy of professional photographer Rick Schmitz:

justin.powell
05-27-2008, 07:29 AM
Okay, here's a picture that I just got of Earl, me, and Archer... courtesy of professional photographer Rick Schmitz:

Thanks for sharing. I think many people on here, including myself, would like to have a 11x17 like that hanging on the wall in the pool room. I am hoping to get me one of those soon as well :D .

bfdlad
05-27-2008, 07:47 AM
Okay, here's a picture that I just got of Earl, me, and Archer... courtesy of professional photographer Rick Schmitz:
Peer, I am so glad that you posted that picture of you Earl and Johnny. I have been wanting to see it. I have to say that at the end of the class there was obviously the opportunity for the students to get autographs and pictures. Most students took the usual pose until it was Peers turn and he began arranging a chair and directingv the guys to stand behind him and look mean. Earl said "Ain't this guy something else?" I was sniggering as were a couple others and thinking 'what the hell is this guy trying to do?" Well by the time the pose was set and a couple of pics were taken, I think most of us who were sniggering were saying to ourselves "man I want one like that it looks like it is going to be cool".

PETARD
05-27-2008, 08:31 AM
I Was The "little John"; Thanks John For The Compliment

PETARD
05-27-2008, 08:37 AM
Ok, lets not blow this out of proportion. Here is basically what happened PLEASE listen. Earl showed his students at the time the way his does things and how he does it, then Johnny showed them the way he does it. Obviously both are different styles and you take what works for you or what you feel comfortable with. Please keep this thread positive for me. If it becomes negative then it will hurt me when trying to put another together and maybe stop anyone else from getting a chance to attend a pool school. I do my best to bring things new and different here to PHX and if this turns negative it will only make an already tough job harderr to do. Thanks, and I hope you understand.

YOU ARE SPOT ON

Peer
05-28-2008, 03:37 AM
Peer, I am so glad that you posted that picture of you Earl and Johnny. I have been wanting to see it. I have to say that at the end of the class there was obviously the opportunity for the students to get autographs and pictures. Most students took the usual pose until it was Peers turn and he began arranging a chair and directingv the guys to stand behind him and look mean. Earl said "Ain't this guy something else?" I was sniggering as were a couple others and thinking 'what the hell is this guy trying to do?" Well by the time the pose was set and a couple of pics were taken, I think most of us who were sniggering were saying to ourselves "man I want one like that it looks like it is going to be cool".

Ah, thank you. I've never cared much for mundane things, and that also goes for run-of-the-mill photos (perhaps that's why I liked hanging out with Earl so much -- he's certainly not a mundane average person ;^) It was also cool of Rick to let me "abuse" Earl and Archer.

-- peer

CocoboloCowboy
05-28-2008, 04:53 AM
Very strange photo of Peer, and Company.http://www.geocities.com/cocobolocowboy/shakehead.gif