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View Full Version : 8 Ball Run out from here


soulcatcher
04-29-2008, 12:48 PM
You have Solids. You have this left for a runout. What do you do?

<iframe src="http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AYsX2BaTl3EICI1FSqS2HaPj2JTrg3KRnx3LahF3MKmo3NS mw3OOng4PGfK@" noresize="noresize" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" frameborder="no" width="660" height="430" ></iframe>

I will post how I ran out when I get back from Vegas next week.

Edit - What pocket for the 8? How do you get there?

subdude1974
04-29-2008, 12:50 PM
2,1,5,6,8.

mbippus
04-29-2008, 01:17 PM
6 5 1 0r 2 depending on the angle off the 5 bank the 8 acroos side.

Andrew Manning
04-29-2008, 01:24 PM
2-5-1-6-8 for me. I'm banking the 8 cross-side. I'd play the 2 with high right, trying to go 3 rails back to the center of the table for a little angle on the 5. Then from the 5 I'm drawing to get a shallow angle on the 1 (since I don't want to run into all those stripes coming off of the 1, I want to be straight enough to hold in the center of the table), then the 6 and whack the 8 cross-side at 100 mph.

The difficult positional shot is from the 2 to the 5, since you need just the right angle to easily get to the 1. If I don't fall well on the 5, I may have to just cinch the 5, possibly using the 13 to hold me right there, and then use the 6 to get nearly straight on the 1. Then I'm drawing back off the one to play the cross-side bank on the 8.

-Andrew

Deadon
04-29-2008, 01:59 PM
2,5,1,6, 8 playing the shot long off the 6, if you hit the 11 your still OK, best case to get lower and play the long rail off the 6.
or
6, 5, 2, 1, 8. Playing the gap, 1, 2, or 3 rails, depending on the angle, between the 14 and 12 for position on the 8.

Neil
04-29-2008, 02:22 PM
............

BRKNRUN
04-29-2008, 02:30 PM
I don't know...I have a feeling that it is a lot more congested around that side pocket than it looks on the layout here...Trying to get in there for a shot on the 8 without being hooked or scratching might be harder in real life.

I would look at the angle off the 6...I may take a crack at relocating that 8-ball off of a shot on the 6 ....If I hit it good (not hard) but with a decent pace it could knock that 8 off the rail into a more makeable position...The 2 is there as insurance....

If I miss the 8...or knock it into a cluster...I should still be able to make the 2...or re-evaluate my safe options.

trustyrusty
04-29-2008, 02:56 PM
I'm a little different than most folks. I'm shooting the one first. Coming off it to either hit the 10 thin on the far side, or hit the 8. Either way, the 8 is now wide open. I'm pretty much guaranteed to have a shot on either the 2 or the 6 next. Depending on just where I end up determines which I shoot first. Preferably the 2, then the 5, then the 6 coming off the end rail towards the side for the 8 in the corner where the 2 is currently sitting.


edit: Normally, I advocate not moving balls if you don't need to. And, the balls are technically runnable as they lie. However, in this case, If you move either the 10 or the 8, you increase your chances of running out dramatically. Worth doing in this case imho. Also, moving the 10 or the 8 you have zero chance of gettin hooked. You will still have a ball available.

I was thinking similarly, but might like your plan of attack better. I would've probably taken the 6 and tried to either bump the 8 or knock into the 10....Going with the 1 ball leaves the 2 and the 6 for shots though...?

Neil
04-29-2008, 03:19 PM
...............

trustyrusty
04-29-2008, 03:22 PM
The problem with taking the 6 first and coming into the 10 or 8, is that it is too easy to have no shot afterwards. Too many things can go wrong.

Oh, I agree with you...I was saying that I probably would've taken the 6 to try to either move the 10 or bump the 8 out a bit. That's my first thought...and I SUCK!!! 1 ball to get the same results I agree is safer.

dabarbr
04-29-2008, 03:35 PM
I'm a little different than most folks. I'm shooting the one first. Coming off it to either hit the 10 thin on the far side, or hit the 8. Either way, the 8 is now wide open. I'm pretty much guaranteed to have a shot on either the 2 or the 6 next. Depending on just where I end up determines which I shoot first. Preferably the 2, then the 5, then the 6 coming off the end rail towards the side for the 8 in the corner where the 2 is currently sitting.


edit: Normally, I advocate not moving balls if you don't need to. And, the balls are technically runnable as they lie. However, in this case, If you move either the 10 or the 8, you increase your chances of running out dramatically. Worth doing in this case imho. Also, moving the 10 or the 8 you have zero chance of gettin hooked. You will still have a ball available.
I agree with you and depending on how I would feel as to coming into the ten thin or going directly into the eight. It looks like a good opportunity to make the rest of the run easy. I don't see how you can get into trouble with that shot. If I don't succeed in making the eight better the out is still there, even if it calls for a bank on the eight.

Jude Rosenstock
04-30-2008, 08:25 AM
2-5-1-6-8 for me. I'm banking the 8 cross-side. I'd play the 2 with high right, trying to go 3 rails back to the center of the table for a little angle on the 5. Then from the 5 I'm drawing to get a shallow angle on the 1 (since I don't want to run into all those stripes coming off of the 1, I want to be straight enough to hold in the center of the table), then the 6 and whack the 8 cross-side at 100 mph.

The difficult positional shot is from the 2 to the 5, since you need just the right angle to easily get to the 1. If I don't fall well on the 5, I may have to just cinch the 5, possibly using the 13 to hold me right there, and then use the 6 to get nearly straight on the 1. Then I'm drawing back off the one to play the cross-side bank on the 8.

-Andrew

I would play the same sequence but I'm not positioning for a bank on the 8. From the 6, I'm fairly certain I can hit that window and get straight on the 8-ball.

Andrew Manning
04-30-2008, 08:35 AM
From the 6, I'm fairly certain I can hit that window and get straight on the 8-ball.

I believe you regarding your skill level. Regarding my own game, I'm fairly certain I'll hook myself or leave myself a more difficult bank at least 7 out of 10 times I try to thread the CB in there.

Also, I'm pretty good at that bank.

-Andrew

Jude Rosenstock
04-30-2008, 08:40 AM
I believe you regarding your skill level. Regarding my own game, I'm fairly certain I'll hook myself or leave myself a more difficult bank at least 7 out of 10 times I try to thread the CB in there.

Also, I'm pretty good at that bank.

-Andrew


I wouldn't sell yourself short just yet. It looks like a mess but it's nowhere near as bad as you think. You can't scratch because the 10 is in the way. All you have to do is get a basic angle sending you toward the side (easy to do, we've all done it a billion times) and have the right speed and you're done.

You just need to have a good angle on that 6. There ARE some bad rolls that could happen but I'd have to say the odds are pretty good you don't get hooked.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@1FSqS2HaPj2JTrg3KRnx3LahF3MKmo3NSmw3OOng1PRxG1QS GG1RRxG1kRxG1kRLJ1kJdk2kTkA2kYYm1lSGG1lRTJ1lLYk3lX cI1mRxG1mRLH1mLIi3mRnh3mYIp@

Da Poet
04-30-2008, 08:41 AM
I would play the same sequence but I'm not positioning for a bank on the 8. From the 6, I'm fairly certain I can hit that window and get straight on the 8-ball.


Yeah, it's not quite as risky as it first looks. Anything center to right on the eleven and not touching the ten will work just fine.

Edit - A little late lol - Actually I was looking at shape on the six another way but that works better.

Andrew Manning
04-30-2008, 09:01 AM
I wouldn't sell yourself short just yet. It looks like a mess but it's nowhere near as bad as you think. You can't scratch because the 10 is in the way. All you have to do is get a basic angle sending you toward the side (easy to do, we've all done it a billion times) and have the right speed and you're done.

You just need to have a good angle on that 6. There ARE some bad rolls that could happen but I'd have to say the odds are pretty good you don't get hooked.



Now that you've drawn out the possible paths, I concede that there aren't as many ways to get in trouble as it seemed at first going for that position. Hitting the 11 on the wrong side is bad, and hitting the 10 on the wrong side (the one you didn't diagram) has a lot of possible bad outcomes, but coming in between them or hitting either on the side you diagrammed doesn't look too risky.

I guess playing for the natural-angle bank (harder than the straight shot, but at least I know what I'm getting) seemed better than playing position plinko. But you've pointed out that the plinko is skewed a bit in my favor, so I guess it's back to a toss-up for me.

-Andrew

Jude Rosenstock
04-30-2008, 09:11 AM
Now that you've drawn out the possible paths, I concede that there aren't as many ways to get in trouble as it seemed at first going for that position. Hitting the 11 on the wrong side is bad, and hitting the 10 on the wrong side (the one you didn't diagram) has a lot of possible bad outcomes, but coming in between them or hitting either on the side you diagrammed doesn't look too risky.

I guess playing for the natural-angle bank (harder than the straight shot, but at least I know what I'm getting) seemed better than playing position plinko. But you've pointed out that the plinko is skewed a bit in my favor, so I guess it's back to a toss-up for me.

-Andrew


No, you're right. You can still get screwed here. The added reason for trying to get shape is that most players have a natural feel for the speed to reach a rail. You know you're gonna be very close.

This is the type of shot that you nail, you think, "wow, not so bad" and everyone oohs and aaahs.

The downside is getting hooked and if you do, you lose. However, if you miss the bank, you lose. No matter what, you don't get out, you lose. So no pressure!

cleary
04-30-2008, 09:32 AM
With all of the stripes all in the same place and such a small window to get good shape on the 8, I would honestly run to the 8, get as close to the 8 as I could and try to play safe... hide the cue behind the 8. I know the point of the post is to get out but with the stripes blocking an easy 8 ball, I dont think I would go for it. Im sure that is inexperience talking, but it seems just ask risky as everything else.

BRKNRUN
04-30-2008, 09:35 AM
I wouldn't sell yourself short just yet. It looks like a mess but it's nowhere near as bad as you think. You can't scratch because the 10 is in the way. All you have to do is get a basic angle sending you toward the side (easy to do, we've all done it a billion times) and have the right speed and you're done.

You just need to have a good angle on that 6. There ARE some bad rolls that could happen but I'd have to say the odds are pretty good you don't get hooked.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@1FSqS2HaPj2JTrg3KRnx3LahF3MKmo3NSmw3OOng1PRxG1QS GG1RRxG1kRxG1kRLJ1kJdk2kTkA2kYYm1lSGG1lRTJ1lLYk3lX cI1mRxG1mRLH1mLIi3mRnh3mYIp@



I am not opposed to this pattern...(I would probably still look to see if I can break that 8 out on the firt shot though)...

If I did not like the angle to the 8 (If it required to much working of the CB to get on it) I would look to this pattern you describe.

I think (even though you did not mention it in so many words) your diagram shows a good lesson to keep in mind.......(and you probably have a habit of seeing it this way already)

When you forced into this type of postion shot that (as Grady would say) is fraught with peril...You should look at only the positive outcomes and basically ignore the bad roll outcomes......Pick your intended good line and go with it...

If you see the CB clipping the 10 and ending up hooked behind it...Or you see yourslef hitting it just a bit too hard (because you want to be sure your clear the 10) and imagine the CB banking behind the 14....That is probably what is going to happen...

It is the same theory about hitting a golf shot on a 175 yard par three that is all carry over water.....If you "see" the ball going into the water......."gloink"

The thought process on that hole is supposed to be....."What Water??"

Cory duel made a comment regarding pocketing balls that is along the same lines...He said...."If the last thing I see (before pulling the trigger) is the ball going in the pocket...that is usually where it goes...If the last thing I see is the ball jarring or hitting a rail...that is usually what happens":)

Jude Rosenstock
04-30-2008, 09:38 AM
With all of the stripes all in the same place and such a small window to get good shape on the 8, I would honestly run to the 8, get as close to the 8 as I could and try to play safe... hide the cue behind the 8. I know the point of the post is to get out but with the stripes blocking an easy 8 ball, I dont think I would go for it. Im sure that is inexperience talking, but it seems just ask risky as everything else.


Without using the words "ever" or "never" (though one might), you should try not playing safe on the 8-ball terribly often. As a rule, you have to assume if your last shot was at the 8-ball, you did not pocket it and your opponent has several balls left on the table, you will lose. In this instance, there is no safety on the 8-ball that will get you a better opportunity to win than the one you have right now.

Neil
04-30-2008, 09:38 AM
...............

Jude Rosenstock
04-30-2008, 09:51 AM
I am not opposed to this pattern...(I would probably still look to see if I can break that 8 out on the firt shot though)...

If I did not like the angle to the 8 (If it required to much working of the CB to get on it) I would look to this pattern you describe.

I think (even though you did not mention it in so many words) your diagram shows a good lesson to keep in mind.......(and you probably have a habit of seeing it this way already)

When you forced into this type of postion shot that (as Grady would say) is fraught with peril...You should look at only the positive outcomes and basically ignore the bad roll outcomes......Pick your intended good line and go with it...

If you see the CB clipping the 10 and ending up hooked behind it...Or you see yourslef hitting it just a bit too hard (because you want to be sure your clear the 10) and imagine the CB banking behind the 14....That is probably what is going to happen...

It is the same theory about hitting a golf shot on a 175 yard par three that is all carry over water.....If you "see" the ball going into the water......."gloink"

The thought process on that hole is supposed to be....."What Water??"

Cory duel made a comment regarding pocketing balls that is along the same lines...He said...."If the last thing I see (before pulling the trigger) is the ball going in the pocket...that is usually where it goes...If the last thing I see is the ball jarring or hitting a rail...that is usually what happens":)


Actually, I'm going to come right out and say this - Rails are GREAT markers for speed control. You should be able to reach your given target rail within an inch, especially on a shot like this. If you don't feel comfortable doing this, work on it. The pay-off is incredible. Become an expert at reaching rails and your game will improve overwhelmingly.

Seriously, I think there are maybe 5 shots that the average B/C player is decent in but could be better. If they spent an hour a week working on those 5 shots, they're going to jump a letter within a month or two. The position from the 6 to the 8 is one of those shots.

Regarding Deuel, I agree with that line of thinking. You have to be positive but you have to have the experience to be positive.

Jude Rosenstock
04-30-2008, 09:53 AM
The BIG problem with that is that all he has to do is hit one of his balls, not any particular ball. He can easily kick into them and get a lock up safe on you. Then he has ball in hand for the runout.


Exactly. There is probably between an 80-90% chance a kick shot will leave no direct angle to the 8-ball.

cleary
04-30-2008, 10:09 AM
Without using the words "ever" or "never" (though one might), you should try not playing safe on the 8-ball terribly often. As a rule, you have to assume if your last shot was at the 8-ball, you did not pocket it and your opponent has several balls left on the table, you will lose. In this instance, there is no safety on the 8-ball that will get you a better opportunity to win than the one you have right now.

Yea, makes sense. Like I said, its the inexperience talking. Im not yet confident enough in my position play to try to get shape for the 8 in the side which is why I choose to "lay up" for the safe. But yea, thats a good rule and certainly something I should apply to my game.

cleary
04-30-2008, 10:11 AM
Seriously, I think there are maybe 5 shots that the average B/C player is decent in but could be better. If they spent an hour a week working on those 5 shots, they're going to jump a letter within a month or two. The position from the 6 to the 8 is one of those shots.

I would love to see the other 4 shots.

soulcatcher
05-05-2008, 02:00 PM
BRKNRUN got the prize for they way I ended up doing it.

I just did not like trying to get back to the right leave on the 6 ball at the end of the run. I decided to play the 6, and come off the rail to bump the 8 into a more makable position. I figured if I missed I should be able to shoot the 2 and have a good safe there if I needed, rather than risking it later when I would have only 1 ball or just the 8 left to try and get a safe. Then I shot the 2 for a leave on the 1, then the one to get to the 5. I shot the 5 top left, and drew back up table for the shot on the 8 in the side.

Game over.

Rep to everyone who posted here except Jude. I still need to spread it around some to get back to you Jude.

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Neil
05-05-2008, 05:55 PM
...............

Da Poet
05-05-2008, 11:11 PM
BRKNRUN got the prize for they way I ended up doing it.

I just did not like trying to get back to the right leave on the 6 ball at the end of the run. I decided to play the 6, and come off the rail to bump the 8 into a more makable position. I figured if I missed I should be able to shoot the 2 and have a good safe there if I needed, rather than risking it later when I would have only 1 ball or just the 8 left to try and get a safe. Then I shot the 2 for a leave on the 1, then the one to get to the 5. I shot the 5 top left, and drew back up table for the shot on the 8 in the side.

Game over.

Rep to everyone who posted here except Jude. I still need to spread it around some to get back to you Jude.

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Glad it worked for you, but I have to say I have mixed feelings on the first shot. It's a tough layout and you cracked it, no doubt, but there just seems to be a lot that could have gone wrong after the contact with the eight. If you didn't clear it just right so it could go into the side, you'd be in deep doo doo. :eek: :D

soulcatcher
05-06-2008, 08:03 AM
Glad it worked for you, but I have to say I have mixed feelings on the first shot. It's a tough layout and you cracked it, no doubt, but there just seems to be a lot that could have gone wrong after the contact with the eight. If you didn't clear it just right so it could go into the side, you'd be in deep doo doo. :eek: :D

Agreed, if I miss the shot I am in deep, but then I would still have 3 balls on the table to play defense. Also, with this table, I would actually have preferred to knock the 8 past the side pocket than leave it short of the side pocket if I missed. It would create more problems for my opponent that way, and the 5 may have given me way to get at it there.

Jason Robichaud
05-06-2008, 09:26 AM
All balls go so I'm not trying to hit anything other than pocket here and play shape for a bank on the 8. Anyone good enough to play shape in that small window with confidence and regularity, shouldn't!!! cause that bank would be even easier for those guys... Hook on balls, in off... froze over a ball, just too much going on. Banking all the way here for me. Someone else posted and I like it... 6, 5, 1 and 2 CB 3 rails for bank on 8. I would be walking to the table thinking I have won this game.

alstl
05-06-2008, 12:23 PM
The only way I see to get on the 8 is with the 5 but that's shaky because of the position of the 10. Tough rack to run. Might be better off thinning the one and leaving the cue ball on the foot rail and force the opponent to open up the cluster.