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koston08
05-01-2008, 12:27 AM
I have been playing with predator products for maybe a year now and I think they play great however I am noticing issues with the ferrule. First with a Z-2. The first ferrule cracked and I had it replaced free of charge and then the replacement ferrule later showed a small hairline crack. I hen bought a 314-2 and now this ferrule shows a small hairline crack. has anyone else had the same problem or is it just bad luck?

JoeyInCali
05-01-2008, 12:37 AM
They are thin and soft.
See them crack at the bottom a few times.

manwon
05-01-2008, 12:48 AM
I have been playing with predator products for maybe a year now and I think they play great however I am noticing issues with the ferrule. First with a Z-2. The first ferrule cracked and I had it replaced free of charge and then the replacement ferrule later showed a small hairline crack. I hen bought a 314-2 and now this ferrule shows a small hairline crack. has anyone else had the same problem or is it just bad luck?

I am a billiards retailer, and I can say for certain they are having a great deal of trouble since the new shafts were first put into production. One of the new features was a ferrule made differently than the ones used on the old Predator shafts. I have had to replace a large number in the last year.

Craig

softshot
05-01-2008, 01:58 AM
they are trying to ride the line... they need low end mass. the lower the better.. and as a result have made the ferrule thinner and weaker...and now you have reached the dividing line in quality..

Do you want to own and learn a solid higher deflection shaft that you can play with for 10 years.. or are you willing to pay more for a product that will break down at some point for a short term (1-2 years) minor increase in accuracy?

the question becomes... Is the increased accuracy worth $100 per year?

or is it better to get higher quality wood..with its own personality... and and let it become part of your game for the long term?..

it is not cost effective to play with predator shafts if you have to replace and repair them often (once every 2 years is WAY too much IMO)

for my money a longer lasting product brings more consistency to my game

and I don't have to keep fixing the thing..

pretty soon they will start selling 314"s by the six-pack...they are a disposable product and they are expensive... I'd rather keep my shaft...

WesleyW
05-01-2008, 02:19 AM
the question becomes... Is the increased accuracy worth $100 per year?

You will have lifetime warranty on the ferrule, so you are not saving $100 per year.

And the second, after playing 2 years, you need to change your tip. By cracking the ferrule, you get a free tip also :eek: :D

Detlev Rackow
05-01-2008, 02:20 AM
the question becomes... Is the increased accuracy worth $100 per year?

or is it better to get higher quality wood..with its own personality... and and let it become part of your game for the long term?..

it is not cost effective to play with predator shafts if you have to replace and repair them often (once every 2 years is WAY too much IMO)



I don't play with Predator equipment, but from what I know, Predator warrants the ferrule for life, so the cost is not really that high. You have to take it to your dealer for repair, and he should take care of the rest. A second shaft for the repair time is standard equipment for most players.

Regards,

Detlev

softshot
05-01-2008, 02:33 AM
You will have lifetime warranty on the ferrule, so you are not saving $100 per year.

And the second, after playing 2 years, you need to change your tip. By cracking the ferrule, you get a free tip also :eek: :D

new ferrule... new tip... =3 to 6 to 10,12 weeks without your shaft... thus learning a new one.. then going back..

I dunno... I see consistency issues. the more things you change the more you have to compensate for.. I know my shaft and my ferrule will never break from playing pool.. ever..


Laminated shafts utilize low quality lumber to produce a short term solution to aim..while producing a long term problem with consistency..if you are constantly changing shafts you will never truely learn any of them..


they claim they are all the same...wood is a natural product....none are the same..


if they want to sell these things make them disposable.. and they have... then sell them cheap ...which they have not...


what you pay for what you get is simply not worth it in my eyes...

softshot
05-01-2008, 02:38 AM
I don't play with Predator equipment, but from what I know, Predator warrants the ferrule for life, so the cost is not really that high. You have to take it to your dealer for repair, and he should take care of the rest. A second shaft for the repair time is standard equipment for most players.

Regards,

Detlev

I had a minor ding in my 314/2 I used a time honored practice to remove the ding.... I prefer my shafts to be as smooth as possible and fixing dings is general maintenance as far as I'm concerned...

after "repairing" the ding the shaft was useless it delaminated and felt like an extruded shamrock..

so...so you can't fix it yourself.. it takes months for them to do it.. and costs tons more money that a high quality solid wood shaft....

where is the advantage?

softshot
05-01-2008, 03:30 AM
You will have lifetime warranty on the ferrule, so you are not saving $100 per year.

And the second, after playing 2 years, you need to change your tip. By cracking the ferrule, you get a free tip also :eek: :D


just to add

my shaft has a lifetime guarantee against warpage.. predator doesn't.. free tips for life are included in my purchase price...they say it won't warp and we will put tips on it forever....

predator says...we know the ferrules weak.. we did it on purpose... if you warp your screwed.. we won't back that up because we use the cheapest lumber we can find,,,,if the shaft you bought sucks.. buy another one...

low quality wood never makes a great cue.. ever


I would love to see the final shaft per shaft cost.. base manufacture cost..vs. selling price... for Mcdermott, Schon, Joss....vs.. Predator,OB1

the LD guys are making alot more money selling disposable products... its like a bic costing more than a zippo... it makes no sense...

WesleyW
05-01-2008, 04:42 AM
But still, it got the lowest deflection, and that's what we want.

ratcues
05-01-2008, 07:18 AM
I am a authorized repair shop and I havn't seen too many of the second generation shafts with cracked ferrules. The first gen yes, but not the new ones. Most people get scratches in the ferrule and think that it is a hairline crack. I see more of those than actual cracks.

Poolfiend
05-01-2008, 08:42 AM
Predator has helped my game tremendously. Yes, the shafts are expensive, but so is losing. Everytime I have ever had a problem with any Predator product I have sent it back to their shop in Florida and they made it right at no cost to me.

IMO - All of the same type of Predaotr shafts play almost exactly the same. At least close enough that you can't tell the difference. So, if you buy two shafts you have nothing to worry about. If you experience problems with a shaft simply send it in for free repair or replacement while you play with your other shaft. Then you have the best of both worlds: The lowest deflection shaft on the market, plus consistency and excellent customer service.

av84fun
05-01-2008, 08:55 AM
I had a minor ding in my 314/2 I used a time honored practice to remove the ding.... I prefer my shafts to be as smooth as possible and fixing dings is general maintenance as far as I'm concerned...

after "repairing" the ding the shaft was useless it delaminated and felt like an extruded shamrock..

so...so you can't fix it yourself.. it takes months for them to do it.. and costs tons more money that a high quality solid wood shaft....

where is the advantage?

How did you do remove the ding?

ratcues
05-01-2008, 10:33 AM
It doesn't take weeks or months to the repairs done. Predator has been one of the fastest companies I have dealt with and they also have authorized repair centers all over the country that can repair the shaft is a matter of hours, not days.

WesleyW
05-01-2008, 10:38 AM
How did you do remove the ding?

Predator don't recommend water or steam on their shafts. I would vote he was using water.

MBTaylor
05-01-2008, 10:44 AM
I had a 314-2 and a piece of the ferrule actually broke off...lol

It played just fine, so I shot with it 1 or 2 times until I could get a new shaft. Once I got the new shaft, I sent the broken onf off and had a NEW shaft in about 12 days (time between I sent the broken one out and got the replacement).

As much as I liked my Predator, I sold my Predator cue because of the hassle of having to send the shaft(s) out should they need to be repaired.

buddha162
05-01-2008, 10:48 AM
Laminated shafts utilize low quality lumber to produce a short term solution to aim...

Predator's low-squirt characteristics has nothing to do with lamination. If it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you, but you are misinformed re how the product works.

-roger

manwon
05-01-2008, 01:23 PM
I am a authorized repair shop and I havn't seen too many of the second generation shafts with cracked ferrules. The first gen yes, but not the new ones. Most people get scratches in the ferrule and think that it is a hairline crack. I see more of those than actual cracks.

Hello Ryan, I am located in Washington State, and I have seen a very large number. I know what you mean about scratches, the material is very soft, but I use a 10x power loop, because it is hard to tell. Most I have seen appear to be cracking from the bottom-up, and if not cracked they are separating or pushing down into the shaft.

Have a nice day Ryan!!

ratcues
05-01-2008, 01:49 PM
Hello Ryan, I am located in Washington State, and I have seen a very large number. I know what you mean about scratches, the material is very soft, but I use a 10x power loop, because it is hard to tell. Most I have seen appear to be cracking from the bottom-up, and if not cracked they are separating or pushing down into the shaft.

Have a nice day Ryan!!

I wonder if those are shafts that slipped through the recall. I can see how the ferrule would crack. Since the recall, I haven't seen many.

radge69
05-01-2008, 01:54 PM
The seperation of the ferrule at the bottom was the problem with the first ones and the glue + ferrule material they were using. That problem is resolved with the newer ones now.

HollyWood
05-01-2008, 04:35 PM
I can tell you to take the pred. break cue,install a new ivorine 4 Ferrule,and linen phenolic jump break tip,or hard Kamui II -h . The no-proporsity tip works with the ferrule, you will be able to rip the skin off the ball with little effort. ( same thing when they started 1997) SSDD

softshot
05-02-2008, 03:43 AM
Predator's low-squirt characteristics has nothing to do with lamination. If it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you, but you are misinformed re how the product works.

-roger


I'm not the one who is misinformed...in the case of predator.. the lamination is all they really have..they are cutting pie wedges and reversing the grain every other piece...and then laminating them together to create the illusion of a perfectly grained shaft... (without having to actually go to a lumber yard) then they hollow out the end and fill it with foam to make it sound like a real shaft...

and follow that up with calculating the lowest conceivable amount of material they must put into the ferrule.to hold it all together..

they make them far cheaper. than any "REAL" cuesmith ever could.... and sell them for 10 times as much as the real thing... thats a scam from day one...


but at the end of the day they take bad wood and glue it together... cover the end with the thinest lightest ferrule possible

look me in the eye and tell me that your glued jumble is worth more money than a hand selected, precision milled, AAA hard rock maple... because I'm not buying it.. I spent the $200.. I gave them a shot... I bought the hype...

and I am still disappointed..

and all the while my original shaft is smooth as glass and playing like a dream...


can I come build you some new cabinets??? I'll rip out all of that cheap oak and replace it with new modern plywood its the wave of the future...modern lamination techniques have allowed us to turn sawdust into into real sellable products... the cabinets will be almost as good as your old oak ones... but they won't last quite as long... and for gods sake dont ever get them wet.....no seriously by the time they wear out you will want to buy new ones anyway....durability is just a catchphrase in the industry...


sorry dude... I just don't buy the arguments....I know the difference I own both... its a minor difference and not nearly worth the money...

but hey.. support the industry.. throw all your money into cheap disposable crap... it's the wave of the future...

softshot
05-02-2008, 03:57 AM
bad wood that plays a little better for a little while.. is not worth as much to me as good wood that plays the same for decades...

WesleyW
05-02-2008, 05:29 AM
I'm not the one who is misinformed...in the case of predator.. the lamination is all they really have..they are cutting pie wedges and reversing the grain every other piece...and then laminating them together to create the illusion of a perfectly grained shaft... (without having to actually go to a lumber yard) then they hollow out the end and fill it with foam to make it sound like a real shaft...

and follow that up with calculating the lowest conceivable amount of material they must put into the ferrule.to hold it all together..

they make them far cheaper. than any "REAL" cuesmith ever could.... and sell them for 10 times as much as the real thing... thats a scam from day one...


but at the end of the day they take bad wood and glue it together... cover the end with the thinest lightest ferrule possible

look me in the eye and tell me that your glued jumble is worth more money than a hand selected, precision milled, AAA hard rock maple... because I'm not buying it.. I spent the $200.. I gave them a shot... I bought the hype...

and I am still disappointed..

and all the while my original shaft is smooth as glass and playing like a dream...


I'm not protection Predator, they are expensive, it would been better if it was cheaper. But...you are not right on those statements.

They have never claimed having the best wood. They are using the laminated shaft to make the shaft more consistent. Comparing to Meucci, Meucci-shafts got red/black dots, so you can always turn the shaft to the right position and the shaft will always flex the same way. For a laminated shaft, when you are turning the shaft, it shouldn't be any different of playability.

Hollowing the shaft is due to lower deflection. By putting foam in it, it will feel a little more like a natural shaft, without adding too much deflection. The mean purposes is to lower the deflection.

You want to know if that cheap piece of predator wood is worth more than your AAA grade shaft? I would say no!

But if you ask me if the technique used by predator is worth more than they used on your AAA grade shaft? I would say yes!

You aren't paying for the wood, you are paying for the knowledge, the technique. If Predator is using expensive wood, their shafts would been selling for $400. Would anyone buy it? I don't think so.

radge69
05-02-2008, 07:43 AM
I've played with predator shafts for over 12 years and have never had a problem. The only "repair" as been new tips. I must just be lucky that these "cheap, junk wood" shafts don't break and play great for me.

JoeyInCali
05-02-2008, 08:17 AM
You aren't paying for the wood, you are paying for the knowledge, the technique. If Predator is using expensive wood, their shafts would been selling for $400. Would anyone buy it? I don't think so.
Why was it $200 before ( first generation ) with good quality wood?

WesleyW
05-02-2008, 09:47 AM
You aren't paying for the wood, you are paying for the knowledge, the technique. If Predator is using expensive wood, their shafts would been selling for $400. Would anyone buy it? I don't think so.
Why was it $200 before ( first generation ) with good quality wood?

Everything is getting expensive. How much $$$ do you pay right now for a gallon and how much did you pay two year ago?

JoeyInCali
05-02-2008, 11:01 AM
Everything is getting expensive. How much $$$ do you pay right now for a gallon and how much did you pay two year ago?
Except Predator moved it's manufacturing to China. It should be cheaper.

Dawgie
05-02-2008, 11:25 AM
How does the pred. compare to the OB1 shaft?

JoeyInCali
05-02-2008, 11:27 AM
How does the pred. compare to the OB1 shaft?
I think OB-1 has a better feel.
Also if you have a problem with OB-1. when you call them, you will be talking to one of the owners.

buddha162
05-02-2008, 11:36 AM
I'm not the one who is misinformed...in the case of predator.. the lamination is all they really have..they are cutting pie wedges and reversing the grain every other piece...and then laminating them together to create the illusion of a perfectly grained shaft... (without having to actually go to a lumber yard) then they hollow out the end and fill it with foam to make it sound like a real shaft...

and follow that up with calculating the lowest conceivable amount of material they must put into the ferrule.to hold it all together..

they make them far cheaper. than any "REAL" cuesmith ever could.... and sell them for 10 times as much as the real thing... thats a scam from day one...


but at the end of the day they take bad wood and glue it together... cover the end with the thinest lightest ferrule possible

look me in the eye and tell me that your glued jumble is worth more money than a hand selected, precision milled, AAA hard rock maple... because I'm not buying it.. I spent the $200.. I gave them a shot... I bought the hype...

and I am still disappointed..

and all the while my original shaft is smooth as glass and playing like a dream...


can I come build you some new cabinets??? I'll rip out all of that cheap oak and replace it with new modern plywood its the wave of the future...modern lamination techniques have allowed us to turn sawdust into into real sellable products... the cabinets will be almost as good as your old oak ones... but they won't last quite as long... and for gods sake dont ever get them wet.....no seriously by the time they wear out you will want to buy new ones anyway....durability is just a catchphrase in the industry...


sorry dude... I just don't buy the arguments....I know the difference I own both... its a minor difference and not nearly worth the money...

but hey.. support the industry.. throw all your money into cheap disposable crap... it's the wave of the future...

Everything you said has been said before on this forum, many times. I'll just repeat:

Predator shafts' low-squirt characteristics have nothing to do with lamination.

The rest of your hyperbolic ranting is just irrelevant, ie they use cheap wood, their ferrules are soft, their shafts are too light, they hit mushy, etc etc. They work as intended. If you prefer the hit of a normal shaft, by all means.

-roger

buddha162
05-02-2008, 11:38 AM
How does the pred. compare to the OB1 shaft?

In what sense are you asking this question? Their construction/materials are completely different, and I would argue they have different goals as well.

-roger

poolplayer2093
05-02-2008, 12:05 PM
I have been playing with predator products for maybe a year now and I think they play great however I am noticing issues with the ferrule. First with a Z-2. The first ferrule cracked and I had it replaced free of charge and then the replacement ferrule later showed a small hairline crack. I hen bought a 314-2 and now this ferrule shows a small hairline crack. has anyone else had the same problem or is it just bad luck?


i've heard about this hella times since they switched factories. i think anyone that's buying the -2 predator shafts is buying their way right into a problem. so what they're fixing it for free you're buying something that is more than likely going to break


i think predator should and i'm more than willing to spend a little extra cash for quality>>>>>>>BUY AMERICAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gwk9ball
05-02-2008, 01:34 PM
I got a new predator Z shaft and went to the pool hall and was playing in a tournament. Played maybe one or two games and was going to hit a draw shot when my ferrule broke in half and went flying across the room. Predator did fix but I had to ship my shaft to florida for several weeks.

Roadkill
05-02-2008, 07:58 PM
I would avoid any billiard product made in Taiwan or China and buying direct from your local American cuemaker.

Many of the imported cues contain inferior materials, lead based finishes, and labor provided by missing and exploited children. IMHO.

Flex
05-02-2008, 08:50 PM
If you want a low deflection shaft, have someone make a regular shaft with an 11mm tip, and a longish pro-taper (mine is 15 inches) a 1/4 inch ferrule, and see what that does for your game...:D

Flex

buddha162
05-02-2008, 09:08 PM
I would avoid any billiard product made in Taiwan or China and buying direct from your local American cuemaker.

Many of the imported cues contain inferior materials, lead based finishes, and labor provided by missing and exploited children. IMHO.

Every few months I have to read this kind of misinformed dribbling. Only someone who is woefully ignorant would even think about uttering Taiwan and China in the same breath, under this context.

As for your further rant on "inferior materials, lead based finishes" and child labor...do these apply to Predator products? If not, what the f--- are we talking about here? Some painful attempt to interject politics into a thread re the merits of predator shafts?

Mindless dribble, not even original.

-roger

poolplayer2093
05-02-2008, 11:08 PM
If you want a low deflection shaft, have someone make a regular shaft with an 11mm tip, and a longish pro-taper (mine is 15 inches) a 1/4 inch ferrule, and see what that does for your game...:D

Flex
you've written this a couple of times bro but i think the thing is 11mm is just too small for some people.

poolplayer2093
05-02-2008, 11:09 PM
Every few months I have to read this kind of misinformed dribbling. Only someone who is woefully ignorant would even think about uttering Taiwan and China in the same breath, under this context.

As for your further rant on "inferior materials, lead based finishes" and child labor...do these apply to Predator products? If not, what the f--- are we talking about here? Some painful attempt to interject politics into a thread re the merits of predator shafts?

Mindless dribble, not even original.

-roger


i think it's just that these threads didnt show up until after they switched their factory from the usa to china

Flex
05-03-2008, 06:25 AM
you've written this a couple of times bro but i think the thing is 11mm is just too small for some people.

You're right about it being too small for some people. It would be too small for me if I didn't wear a glove. There is also another possibility, though.It would involve the choice of whatever a person likes as far as taper is concerned for the middle part of the shaft, say from 4 or 5 inches or so back from the tip, so it would be, let's say, 12.75 mm or 13 mm or more, so that the feel of the shaft would be relatively normal for most people, but the tip and first 4 inches would be 11 or thereabouts. That should help in the squirt reduction area.

Now that I'm thinking about this, I might just experiment with an old shaft to see what kind of results I get with it. By the way, the 11 mm setup I currently have produces a very satisfying and solid hit, (way better than my OB-1 for instance) at least for me.

Flex

Roadkill
05-03-2008, 06:47 AM
Every few months I have to read this kind of misinformed dribbling. Only someone who is woefully ignorant would even think about uttering Taiwan and China in the same breath, under this context.

As for your further rant on "inferior materials, lead based finishes" and child labor...do these apply to Predator products? If not, what the f--- are we talking about here? Some painful attempt to interject politics into a thread re the merits of predator shafts?

Mindless dribble, not even original.

-roger

Do you think that Predator manufactures cues in China to improve quality?

My point was, if you are interested in buying a quality cue, stick with cues made by American cuemakers and not Chinese laborors making 10 cents per hour working without lunch. As hunger increases, quality decreases, wax on, wax off.

mnorwood
05-03-2008, 06:47 AM
I bought a 314 2 after 2 months it cracked and fell apart. Predator sent me a new one no charge.