John Schmidt's 626
- Thread starter pk249
- Start date
Do forum members not have the ability to start poll threads...?
I'm amazed for all the chatter of the relavence of this "record" being "broken" in pool world, there hasn't been one yet.
A) Did happen, and do care
B) Didin't happen, and do care
C) Did happen, don't care
D) Didn't happen, don't care
If nothing else JS can use the results as a metric for his potental dvd sales....
I'm amazed for all the chatter of the relavence of this "record" being "broken" in pool world, there hasn't been one yet.
A) Did happen, and do care
B) Didin't happen, and do care
C) Did happen, don't care
D) Didn't happen, don't care
If nothing else JS can use the results as a metric for his potental dvd sales....
This is an interesting development.
Hmmm...I'd think Bob Jewett would have spotted this given his straight pool expertise and general good reputation. In these times it's very hard to take the word of any anonymous source seriously, no offense to Jay Helfert who also has a very good reputation.
Unfortunately for JS, as long as the video is not released there will always be a dark cloud of doubt over the whole thing, it's just the way the world works, now. People are generally much more sceptical about events taking place when they can't see video etc.
Bob Jewett has a good reputation as a pool player and as a stand-up guy,
but I would be more interested to hear what someone with significant video production & editing expertise thought about the video.
I can see no good reason to keep the video a secret.
Biloxi Boy
Man With A Golden Arm
.............. Never mind. I got it now -- "break ball" is the 15th (or "1") unracked ball.
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Do forum members not have the ability to start poll threads...?
I'm amazed for all the chatter of the relavence of this "record" being "broken" in pool world, there hasn't been one yet.
A) Did happen, and do care
B) Didin't happen, and do care
C) Did happen, don't care
D) Didn't happen, don't care
If nothing else JS can use the results as a metric for his potental dvd sales....
The other way he could get a read on interest would be to make it available for purchase.
Sent from my SM-T830 using Tapatalk
all those ball polishings
All those ball polishings would seem to give the opportunity for a little fudging or for accidental errors.
Either would invalidate the record I believe. I have to admit that the time between the run and sending a video for validation left time for some video editing too. Nothing crude, frame by frame editing. Video can lie as easily as photo's today.
When things are considered that bug me a little, the witnesses. First four, then five, then six, finally eight in the early days after the attempt. Most of the eight don't hold water as watched every shot witnesses especially as this was one of hundreds of attempts.
john may have set the record but I think we have little or no better proof than Cranfield or others including Willie himself setting it. Isn't Ursertti the one that saw Willie run over six hundred unfinished? Butchered the spelling of his name no doubt but no reason to question his credibility!
When the BCA called something behind closed doors an exhibition run that smacked of pure bs to me. People getting ready to open a business, wives chatting and drinking coffee in all likelihood, are these really focused on one of john's endless attempts after months? Possible but it doesn't pass the sniff test.
The low angle video from a single camera has to have john's body blocking shots too. I suspect why Bob said he didn't see any fouls, not that none existed. Too, it is brutally hard to watch john run balls long except in lots of pieces. We know the ending so we know the middle. I had his 247 ball run and found that impossible to watch in one sitting.
At this point the video can prove conclusively that a legitimate record wasn't set, it can only indicate that one was most likely set.
If john wants an almost universally accepted record he will need a real audience or cameras that can capture all of the action, both to please some record keepers. There is also the matter of john's supplements for some record keepers. Taking more than the RDA of anything is considered doping by some.
john's attempts were very backyard and amateurish. Therein lies much of the skepticism. Most simply don't care.
Hu
All those ball polishings would seem to give the opportunity for a little fudging or for accidental errors.
Either would invalidate the record I believe. I have to admit that the time between the run and sending a video for validation left time for some video editing too. Nothing crude, frame by frame editing. Video can lie as easily as photo's today.
When things are considered that bug me a little, the witnesses. First four, then five, then six, finally eight in the early days after the attempt. Most of the eight don't hold water as watched every shot witnesses especially as this was one of hundreds of attempts.
john may have set the record but I think we have little or no better proof than Cranfield or others including Willie himself setting it. Isn't Ursertti the one that saw Willie run over six hundred unfinished? Butchered the spelling of his name no doubt but no reason to question his credibility!
When the BCA called something behind closed doors an exhibition run that smacked of pure bs to me. People getting ready to open a business, wives chatting and drinking coffee in all likelihood, are these really focused on one of john's endless attempts after months? Possible but it doesn't pass the sniff test.
The low angle video from a single camera has to have john's body blocking shots too. I suspect why Bob said he didn't see any fouls, not that none existed. Too, it is brutally hard to watch john run balls long except in lots of pieces. We know the ending so we know the middle. I had his 247 ball run and found that impossible to watch in one sitting.
At this point the video can prove conclusively that a legitimate record wasn't set, it can only indicate that one was most likely set.
If john wants an almost universally accepted record he will need a real audience or cameras that can capture all of the action, both to please some record keepers. There is also the matter of john's supplements for some record keepers. Taking more than the RDA of anything is considered doping by some.
john's attempts were very backyard and amateurish. Therein lies much of the skepticism. Most simply don't care.
Hu
Only in "professional" pool could 9 months of hard work by a team of people yeild no more than a few grand in income, a huge net loss...and at least one former player and his evil twin / alternate personality devoting their life to insisting it never happened.
Is it really any wonder some of us are simply content with a home table and a recreational hobby?
Is it really any wonder some of us are simply content with a home table and a recreational hobby?
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It is likely that any inconsistencies came from the polishing and replacing of balls. If the removal and replacing of the balls is in the video, it is understandable that you might miss it unless you scrutinized every break shot.
You need to provide a little more detail, Jay. Above I posted a complete list of all the break shots including the time during the run, the number of the break ball, and which side of the rack it was on, all observed from the unedited video.
Which break shot are you referring to?
Can not the same be said for the infamous 526...?
I know nothing of it other than some people were corralled to sign an affidavit.
A world record (?) done before handheld video, that just happened to happen during an exhibition.
I'm assuming the only difference between Mosconi and JS was that Willie's was paid for (exhibition), so technically not "amateurish", and he didn't start out trying to reach the milestone.
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Biloxi Boy
Man With A Golden Arm
Who knows the technical details of the video equip setup?
To review, I understand that JS actively pursued this record day after day after day. But I am also getting the idea that the video rig was rather simplistic.
I do not watch a whole bunch of pool on screens, TV or otherwise, and I am not a keen observer of the filming festivities when I attend tournaments (I will be next time though) but I seem to recall overhead shots from say a camera rigged in the lights. [I just paused and found and scanned a Dr. Dave video:
I figured this would present a representative example. Anyway, Dr. Dave uses, at least, two elevated cameras (camera on tripod on top of barstools) -- you can see one of the rigs in the video.]
Did JS release the details of the video set up? For instance, is Hu correct when he says low angle/single camera? (Not that I doubt Hu, because in my book, he and Bob are cut from the same board -- I just like to confirm like the rest of ya'll.) Things we should know might include: resolution or hi def? lighting? id of camera operators? If no videographer was used, was a "professional" consulted regarding camera placement, settings, angles, lighting? Someone here has to be familiar with "filming" set ups.
Final observation: If JS was to reveal all the particulars of how this historic, record breaking run was recorded in order to preserve it for posterity, and, hopefully, catch a few bucks in the process, it should have -0- impact on his wallet -- no condemnation to the Walmart loading dock involved.
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There were a few differences. John would announce that he will be attempting the record at a specific pool room during a 30 day period and then he had a rough schedule posted. But he also didn’t stick 100% to that schedule. During he month where all attempts were streamed, on a few occasions I tuned in during the posted times and he had either taken the day off or left early. There was also no opponent, which I know others think doesn’t matter.
If the run is clean, I do think it is a record, but not the same record as Mosconi. I know Cranefield claimed higher, but there is just so little information about its context, witnesses etc. I always figured the number John should be shooting for is 625 (Michael Eufemia’s high run) and he got there by one ball.
The "exhibition" part of JS's run IMO is legit. He let people know he was running balls, where he was, etc. How many people would really show up in 2019's pool world to watch a guy run straight pool day after day? 5 people in the room "watching" him was probably an average number.
Its like the 14-1 event at DCC. Usually just a few people watching, and they come and go. They don't stay for hours.
There is no way in hell he could have gotten dozens or a hundred people like I'm sure Mosconi did every exhibition.
It's not JS's fault no one cares about pool anymore. Let alone straight pool. He played, the fans simply chose to stay home.
Its like the 14-1 event at DCC. Usually just a few people watching, and they come and go. They don't stay for hours.
There is no way in hell he could have gotten dozens or a hundred people like I'm sure Mosconi did every exhibition.
It's not JS's fault no one cares about pool anymore. Let alone straight pool. He played, the fans simply chose to stay home.
I noticed only once when John had to play a slightly unusual shot after the break shot. On ball 562 (break shot was 561) he had a carom along the foot rail off a ball near the back of the rack to pocket a ball that was near the foot rail. I'd say it was about a 50% shot, so not that unreasonable to play at 14.1 when balls are all over the table.
This is one of the greatest accomplishments in pool. Cheers John! :thumbup: