Billy Thorpe gone wild!

RingKing

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have found this to be a generally disheartening thread.

Certainly, most of us see a problem here, and that's the good part. Most of us understand that Matchroom's growing interest in and increased appetite for investment in pool in America are the biggest breath of fresh air in American pool in years. Emily Frazer at Matchroom has stressed, both verbally and in print, that cleaning up the image of the American pool pro is fundamental to Matchroom's plans and vision to grow the pro pool product worldwide. In the politest words she could find, she expressed just how being a transformation will be needed to bring greater professionalism to those the play pro pool in America.

I don't think the point of this thread is to single out Billy Thorpe, whose behavior was, even by his own account, off base. Has Matchroom been hurt here? Probably not much, but what is sadly apparent here is that the most visible American pros have yet to buy in to Matchrrom's vision for the sport, which compromises Matchroom's chances of bringing pool to a higher level of professionalism. Matchroom did this for snooker some 40 years ago, but on that occasion, the players bought in and conducted themselves with professionalism even before their earnings skyrocketed.

What has been disheartening is just how many posters see what happened here as no big deal. It's seems it's this way on AZB every time any pool professional gets out of line in their behavior. American pool's poor image has, at least to some extent, been made worse over the years by the willingness of so many American pool fans to tolerate such unprofessional conduct.
Well said.
Like it or not the US is not the EU. This is the country that created WWF Smackdown, UFC, Cheesebugers, Blues n Rock and Roll, and the filibuster.

A cordial friendly gentlemans game of pocket pool is not going to draw the admiration here that it draws in the EU and Britain.
For example ask a non golf fan to name a pro golfer. You will likely hear Tiger and Big John Daly. At one time Daly drew a crowd in person and on air. He made golf badass for a while. Hitting the ball 350 while downing a 6 pack. Thats american sports.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
I have found this to be a generally disheartening thread.

Certainly, most of us see a problem here, and that's the good part. Most of us understand that Matchroom's growing interest in and increased appetite for investment in pool in America are the biggest breath of fresh air in American pool in years. Emily Frazer at Matchroom has stressed, both verbally and in print, that cleaning up the image of the American pool pro is fundamental to Matchroom's plans and vision to grow the pro pool product worldwide. In the politest words she could find, she expressed just how being a transformation will be needed to bring greater professionalism to those the play pro pool in America.

I don't think the point of this thread is to single out Billy Thorpe, whose behavior was, even by his own account, off base. Has Matchroom been hurt here? Probably not much, but what is sadly apparent here is that the most visible American pros have yet to buy in to Matchrrom's vision for the sport, which compromises Matchroom's chances of bringing pool to a higher level of professionalism. Matchroom did this for snooker some 40 years ago, but on that occasion, the players bought in and conducted themselves with professionalism even before their earnings skyrocketed.

What has been disheartening is just how many posters see what happened here as no big deal. It's seems it's this way on AZB every time any pool professional gets out of line in their behavior. American pool's poor image has, at least to some extent, been made worse over the years by the willingness of so many American pool fans to tolerate such unprofessional conduct.


Years ago I was trying to find or attract a sponsor. One of the critical things was how I behaved in public. Not just when I was competing, but if I was out of my house I was on stage. Men who consider themselves pros need to consider this. They represent the sport 24/7, doesn't matter if they want to or not. Years later I was considering sponsoring a local guy. He was handsome and looks don't hurt! He was also well spoken and quite popular. Everything looked good and I had decided to sponsor him to the tune of $10,000 a year in the eighties. Not huge but not chickenfeed either and I might have tossed in a bit more if something unusual called for it. Then he was involved in several incidents in a few week span. None of the incidents were a big deal but they weren't how I wanted my business to be represented. The sponsorship died. Just bad timing, I don't remember him being involved in another incident that I witnessed. Those incidents still cost him $40,000 or so.

None of us are saints but when we are trying to advance our sport we need to try to be. I think there is a saying to the effect that the bad you do will be remembered forever, the good is buried with you in the grave. We don't get to choose when people are watching. If we our outside of our own home and even sometimes inside it we are open to scrutiny. Many sports do have a "morals clause" in their contracts, how major leaguers get fired with no repercussions to the team. Pool isn't a team sport so it is tougher to see the "firings". There is no telling how many corporations were considering getting involved with pool when someone gave it a black eye at the wrong moment in time. We are having a hard time cleaning up our image with the general public. Until we do we are just daydreaming about big sponsors. Why have their name connected to something negative?

Remember every time you refuse to engage with a hothead, every time you turn the other cheek, you are furthering pool. Aside from that when somebody comes at you ready for war and you just defuse the situation it leaves them confused and baffled. You score a win with no pain or scandal!

Hu
 

RingKing

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
We are having a hard time cleaning up our image with the general public. Until we do we are just daydreaming about big sponsors. Why have their name connected to something negative?

Hu
Fake doesn't sell either. We all spent time in shaddy pool rooms, every room has its share of degerate gamblers, drug dealers, alcoholics, and lowlifes. If you spend enough time there you probably will end up calling some of them friends.

This isnt a country club sport. Its rough at times, dirty and down right dangerous if you get out of line in the wrong place or at the wrong time. This makes the game exciting.

An unscripted reallity show of two road players traveling cross country that would be exciting.
 

justnum

Billiards Improvement Research Projects Associate
Silver Member
One man doesn't make a culture. Higgins was the anomaly not the norm.

I'm not saying fighting or whatever is the norm in North American pool, (or snooker players are saints for that matter)...., but that type of persona is the assumption.
what if this forum are the only pool fans alive. then most agree talent development is needed to attract a wider audience willing to pay and devote time to billiards.

matchroom is the only people interested and everyone on the forum is pretty savvy so... who is going to coach them to become more camera ready.

this is a problem most employers face. so instead of stirring the pot whats the plan.

give billy a talk. that hasnt worked on earl or mika. emily frazer and matchroom is pushing for something few can do. convert a young pool pro into a sports role model.

i cant think of any existing billiard names capable.
 

pvc lou

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Watching two guys bum for smokes and argue over who owes who $5 would be the opposite of exciting
Watching pool is the opposite of exciting, period. Only chance that people will get into it is with some drama. Pool went through revivals after The Hustler and The Color of Money; however, ESPN pool did nothing.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
Fake doesn't sell either. We all spent time in shaddy pool rooms, every room has its share of degerate gamblers, drug dealers, alcoholics, and lowlifes. If you spend enough time there you probably will end up calling some of them friends.

This isnt a country club sport. Its rough at times, dirty and down right dangerous if you get out of line in the wrong place or at the wrong time. This makes the game exciting.

An unscripted reallity show of two road players traveling cross country that would be exciting.


I spent over ten years gambling nightly. There were some lowlifes I was friendly with, not one I would call a friend. A big difference. I was well aware that if any of these guys could make a buck off of me any kind of way they would do it. Most I knew are dead now, long dead. Others did serious time. Was thinking about it this morning, a lot did time for armed robbery. They were risking their lives and other people's for a few bucks.

It isn't fake to act respectable. We all do it when we feel we need to. We go looking for a job, we act respectable. We go to a function at a church, we act respectable. It is no more fake to not act like a douche than it is to act like a douche.

I was practicing at Buff's old place on Airline. Rough area, hookers walked front and back and sometimes cut through the pool room. Every strata of society could be found in there and we all got along. Two jerks came in, they thought they were slumming. Their loud curses sounded totally fake, they were posers. One put his sweating water bottle against my case that had been on the table before they came in. I quietly moved the bottle about a foot away from my case. A few minutes later it was jammed against my case again, the level of water didn't appear to be lowered. I moved it again. A few minutes later, back against my case. I picked up the water bottle and took two or three long steps to the trash can. With a full swing that would have thrown the bottle a long ways I hummed it into the bottom of the garbage can. Now there is a whine in his voice, "I would have moved it."

"I moved it three times. The last time was into the garbage can."

He went and got another bottle of water and set it on a different side table. Their noise level and profanity were reduced considerably. No yelling, no grandstanding, a little explaining to make them understand common courtesy.

If you do a little searching you will find a ten minute or so long promo where Scotty Townsend and jamie feral tried to sell a show just like you are talking about. Didn't fly with Scotty in it and maybe nobody in American pool was as entertaining a road man as he was.

Hu
 

Agent 99

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's easy to criticize, but shit happens. In the larger scheme of things this is not a big deal in anyway. Of course it should not happen, but after it did they both shook hands and are moving on, as should everybody else.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
what if this forum are the only pool fans alive. then most agree talent development is needed to attract a wider audience willing to pay and devote time to billiards.

matchroom is the only people interested and everyone on the forum is pretty savvy so... who is going to coach them to become more camera ready.

this is a problem most employers face. so instead of stirring the pot whats the plan.

give billy a talk. that hasnt worked on earl or mika. emily frazer and matchroom is pushing for something few can do. convert a young pool pro into a sports role model.

i cant think of any existing billiard names capable.
This post pertains to American pool only.

A generally well-reasoned post, JUSTNUM, but I think there are those who are very serious about their demeanor and how they present themselves. I'll offer Chris Robinson as a good example. Although this wasn't always so, I also like the way Justin Bergman conducts and presents himself. These are two of the more visible American players.

Ultimately, the players must police themselves, and they won't do so until they all buy in to the need for exhibiting greater professionalism. Legend has it that New York Yankee legend Joe DiMaggio leaned hard on teammates he felt fell short in either work ethic or demeanor. Arnold Palmer is reputed to have played a role in encouraging his fellow pro golfers to project the kind of image that he knew would make his sport more marketable. As we're talking about the 1940's and 1950's here, it's not anything I remember, but when the most visible stars in any sport take it upon themselves to improve the way their fellow pros conduct themselves, it makes a big difference.

Unfortunately, pool's greatest and most visible stars have never taken it upon themselves to raise the image and level of professionalism in their sport. Imagine what an impact it would have had if SVB, the face of American pool for over a decade, were to loudly and publicly rebuke Billy Thorpe's objectionable outburst, while simultaneously requesting in earnest that his fellow American pros steer clear of such objectionable behavior. Personally, I think his fellow pro s would follow his lead.

Of course, the evidence continues to mount that the pros are happy to maintain the status quo, which will force them to continue scraping out a modest living for the imaginable future. I, for one, believe they can do much better, but first they have to want it enough. Their actions suggest they don't want it enough quite yet.
 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
This post pertains to American pool only.

A generally well-reasoned post, JUSTNUM, but I think there are those who are very serious about their demeanor and how they present themselves. I'll offer Chris Robinson as a good example. Although this wasn't always so, I also like the way Justin Bergman conducts and presents himself. These are two of the more visible American players.

Ultimately, the players must police themselves, and they won't do so until they all buy in to the need for exhibiting greater professionalism. Legend has it that New York Yankee legend Joe DiMaggio leaned hard on teammates he felt fell short in either work ethic or demeanor. Arnold Palmer is reputed to have played a role in encouraging his fellow pro golfers to project the kind of image that he knew would make his sport more marketable. As we're talking about the 1940's and 1950's here, it's not anything I remember, but when the most visible stars in any sport take it upon themselves to improve the way their fellow pros conduct themselves, it makes a big difference.

Unfortunately, pool's greatest and most visible stars have never taken it upon themselves to raise the image and level of professionalism in their sport. Imagine what an impact it would have had if SVB, the face of American pool for over a decade, were to loudly and publicly rebuke Billy Thorpe's objectionable outburst, while simultaneously requesting in earnest that his fellow American pros steer clear of such objectionable behavior. Personally, I think his fellow pro s would follow his lead.

Of course, the evidence continues to mount that the pros are happy to maintain the status quo, which will force them to continue scraping out a modest living for the imaginable future. I, for one, believe they can do much better, but first they have to want it enough. Their actions suggest they don't want it enough quite yet.
I think Shane is gonna be the last one to talk about people doing something wrong. He doesn't want to go down that road with anybody
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think Shane is gonna be the last one to talk about people doing something wrong. He doesn't want to go down that road with anybody
That leaves hardly anyone left I can think who would do it and who the players would respect enough to listen to, if not their MC captain Jeremy Jones. Perhaps Johnny Archer?
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
I think Shane is gonna be the last one to talk about people doing something wrong. He doesn't want to go down that road with anybody
I agree with you on this. I was merely saying that, hypothetically, it would make a big difference and would give Matchroom a greater chance of achieving its goals with respect to American pool.
 
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