Best Instructional YouTube Video For Shooting Off The Cushion Recommendations?
- Thread starter ChrisinNC
- Start date
JC
Coos Cues
With a tripod base? I don't see why not.
You pretty much have to elevate at least a little, just to avoid miscuing - the miscue limit on the CB is only 1/4" or so above the cushion nose, below the tops of most rails.
Which, of course, is why these shots are challenging - offcenter hits create more swerve.
pj
chgo
I used to have a tough time with these. Changing my bridge fixed everything. I stopped trying to do a closed bridge against the end of the table. I stopped doing the bridge with the cue sliding along your middle finger and your index looped over. I just started putting my palm down on the rail, stick on top with in the groove between my thump and index, allow a little elevation, and make use of a compact stroke.
Jimmy Reid was one of the very few players that would show people anything about pool in the 70's. He was at Weenie Beenies room in the late 70's and I watched him show players how to play off the rail. The main thing I took from that was to shorten up on the cue butt. With your hand up toward the start of the wrap, you could make a medium stroke and couldn't over hit the CB. I've used that technique since with good success. I'm always surprised that many good players don't 'shorten up' on many shots, especially off the rail.
Good luck
Good luck
Patrick is right on the money here...especially for the players with their fingertips on the edge of the rail. If you fail to elevate to the angle of the cushion, you can easily miscue. Holding the cue tighter may work for some players, but more will be successful using a very light cradle, and a smooth transition. Having a finish point in your stroke delivery (grip hand to armpit/chest) makes it so much easier to just swing the cue through the CB. Your tip always goes to the same place at the end of your stroke (near or on the cloth)...unless it's UP IN THE AIR...which is always wrong under any circumstance. If your tip is finishing up in the air, you're in trouble, and inconsistency is likely.
As far as CB/OB last...there are always four times we should be looking at the CB at the moment of impact. They are the break, a kick, a jump, and a masse'. We have been teaching this for 30 years. Playing the CB on the rail is NOT one of the times where there is a necessity, nor an advantage to looking at the CB last. The cue follows your eyes. The brain, via the eyes, trains the arm to move the cue, presumably in a straight line through the CB. Personal Eye Patterns are one of most effective methods of training your process...once the process is defined and established. Few pro players really know what they do, but many have been video-recorded and observed eyes fluttering back and forth...again, it's the consistency of what we do, as much as how we do it. Even JC's "sync-ing" of his eyes to his stroke have to have some kind of change in there for the cuestick and the eyes...and there will be some kind of pause, deliberate or not!
Full backswing, shorter backswing...it doesn't matter. The stroke is always initiated, timed, and delivered the same way. That one of the reasons why SPF works so well for players to train themselves into a better stroke. It's not about training yourself to be a robot. It's about learning how to self correct on the fly, so you always play at a higher, more consistent level. You make an error...evaluate the cause...and correct it the next time you get down on the table.
Open bridge, closed bridge shouldn't matter...it's a personal choice for each of us. Better players will be comfortable using either bridge when the CB is either frozen to the cushion, or within a ball's width. You still have to elevate the cue to the angle of the bevel on the rail. For those that talk about "eliminating pauses"...that's ridiculous. If you start with your tip almost up against the CB and shove it forward it will be a foul. If you start with your tip an inch away, and stroke through the CB, you still had to pull it back an inch somehow. If you start a couple of inches, or more, away from the CB, and stop the tip at the CB as you hit it, that's just a poke and difficult to vary speed control.
The point I am making is that all strokes contain pauses of varying degrees and lengths of time. You cannot defeat physics. You can't move the cue backwards, from a stopped position at the CB, and change to a smooth accelerated forward stroke without some kind of pause in between...even if it is very short (mine is 0.2 seconds...but it is a seamless transition). Allison Fisher's pauses are about 1 second each. Buddy Hall's pause on his backswing is often 2-3 full seconds! When you really think about it we all pause 3 times...first at the CB, before we pull the trigger...second, at the end of the backswing...short or long...abrupt or smooth. You have to stop the cue momentarily to change direction. How you make that transition smoothly and accurately is the hard part...especially without grabbing the cue tightly, or stopping abruptly and jerking the cue forward.
The third stop is at the end of the stroke delivery process...whether it is a measurable consistent finish (mine is tip on the cloth 6.5" past the far edge of the CB. It is my natural finish for most shots.); a stroke delivery of varying lengths of follow-through; a violent stab through the CB, with the tip in the air reaching for the other end of the table; or any other kind of imagined way of hitting the CB...none of them work consistently without great timing. The most important element of that timing is striking the CB accurately at all cue speeds (we teach 10...most players have only 3). How you make that momentary change from backwards to forwards holds all the secrets to learning to play better more consistently. Holding the cue tightly, putting downward pressure on the shaft, or putting some device over the shaft to weight it down...are all poor advice. I can't stress this enough...until you have an accurate, repeatable set up and delivery process (which is physical, psychological and mental), and have trained it into a habit...aiming will still be hit or miss.
Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
I have a healthy pause before pulling the trigger. However I swear I saw a video wherein they display a non-stop piston type stroke on the likes of O'Sullivan and maybe even SVB from time to time. The grip hands drops on the backswing, then circles up as the transistion to the forward stroke begins. No pause in movement.
It touted as a stroke improvement, although I don't know if I actually agree with that sentiment.
Wish I could find that video.
Edit: Found one of them
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This^^^
Coming from a snooker background, this was just the way it was always done. In fact I didn't start the looping closed bridge off the rail until I started playing pool and required large amounts of power from time to time.
I've always been very comfortable shooting CB off the rail, and could never figure out why pool players hate the shot so much. At least not until I recently changed up equipment and transistioned from my 11.75mm tip to a 12.5. The larger tip gave me fits for a long time. Although I've finally gotten used to it somewhat, went I'm hitting with the old cue and end up on the rail, I remember why I loved it so much.
Open bridge, use the rail, shorten up the stroke if the need be. Otherwise keep everything else the same. 80% mental imo. Stroke mechanics are no different then shooting over a ball.
Am I the only one that playing of the rail is not an oversize worry?
You have to take the shot so stop agonizing.
Of course I would rather not be on the rail and I play shape to come off the rail, always,
but sometimes you end up on the rail because your speed is too fast or too slow.
I try to see it as just another shot and use an open or a closed bridge depending on the shot.
It is sort of like when I was an avid golfer I knew guys that
would never take a driver out of their bag because they were afraid of it.
Guess what?
They will never be able to hit their driver confidently..
Doubt is the biggest killer in our game.
You have to take the shot so stop agonizing.
Of course I would rather not be on the rail and I play shape to come off the rail, always,
but sometimes you end up on the rail because your speed is too fast or too slow.
I try to see it as just another shot and use an open or a closed bridge depending on the shot.
It is sort of like when I was an avid golfer I knew guys that
would never take a driver out of their bag because they were afraid of it.
Guess what?
They will never be able to hit their driver confidently..
Doubt is the biggest killer in our game.
So is the consensus that rail shots can be performed better by watching where the tip contacts the ball and the path through it? Same for jump, masse and break shots?
Shots that require skills and with the break carrying the title of ‘most critical’.
I play my best when I can treat every shot as the most critical.
Cole Dickson was the player giving the ticket when the 9 ball break and run pot got to $10,000. (And yes he did) I had the privilege of his theory on the break. Pretty simple actually. At the time players were going to break cues, he told me that he wants accuracy over power and felt he would be more accurate with his shooter.
The center ball being unusually difficult to find while frozen to the rail or justify shooting through it makes for good practice with the break cue and no chalk.
Shots that require skills and with the break carrying the title of ‘most critical’.
I play my best when I can treat every shot as the most critical.
Cole Dickson was the player giving the ticket when the 9 ball break and run pot got to $10,000. (And yes he did) I had the privilege of his theory on the break. Pretty simple actually. At the time players were going to break cues, he told me that he wants accuracy over power and felt he would be more accurate with his shooter.
The center ball being unusually difficult to find while frozen to the rail or justify shooting through it makes for good practice with the break cue and no chalk.
JC
Coos Cues
Which is everyone's favorite shot!
JC
Coos Cues
I think the consensus is more do what works for you. If you don't like your results try something else. Lots of good ideas here. Many never try anything else because they're happy with what they are doing, until they aren't.
lots of different reasons some cant hit off the rail well.
but the biggest is that most players have a loose sloppy bridge to start off with. it gets them by off the flat part of the table. but once their bridge hand is contorted, it makes it real hard for that cue to go straight. and the target off the rail is a smaller hit . the two don't mix well.
did you see jc's bridge in the above video. solid.
but the biggest is that most players have a loose sloppy bridge to start off with. it gets them by off the flat part of the table. but once their bridge hand is contorted, it makes it real hard for that cue to go straight. and the target off the rail is a smaller hit . the two don't mix well.
did you see jc's bridge in the above video. solid.
I think the main reasons are - obviously you’re hitting just the top part of the cue ball, the cue is more elevated so to some extent you are hitting the cue ball down in to the slate, the bridge is normally different than someone’s normal bridge, and finally the alignment of your cue shaft to aid you in lining up your target line is just not as clear as when your bridge hand is on the table.
8intheside
Active member
What you need to do is keep the cue as level as possible and follow though. Practice,practice
The top players from the Philippines are known for having an elliptical stroke also. There are trade offs to a pause, there are trade offs to an elliptical stroke. In terms of body mechanics I think the elliptical stroke gets the nod. The pause gives a chance for some side to side movement where the rounded stroke is supported all of the way. The pause is often followed by a jerk when someone starts forward too, no jerk in a continuous motion.
Benefits of the pause are mostly mental, you can go over a mental checklist and a final confirmation you are on target. If this is good or bad is open for debate too.
In the end, it is whatever cranks your tractor! We can find excellent players contradicting pretty much any rule of better play. Willie had it right, you put the ball in the hole and get shape for the next one. Any details along the way don't really matter.
Hu