1996 Seniors tour

[sjm]

Sounds like a top player that hasn't gotten his full recognition.

The road player will never gain the recognition that those who compete successfully in the major events gain, and that's as it should be, for staying under the radar is part of their trade. Nonetheless, Toby Sweet is one of the few action oriented players whose excellence is widely recognized and celebrated.

 

[middleofnowhere]

I grew up with Toby and know him over 55 years. We had a few road adventures and I could fill pages with some great stories. Let me know if you would like to hear a few. In his prime he was probably the best push out nine ball player on the planet. Nobody had to beat him. Great money player and great guy.

That would be great. I know him about 45 years. Do you know Neal and Vinny?

 

[garczar]

Sigel never plays anymore and Nick plays some but not much. Those guys in their late 60's-70's probably not gonna do any tour. You might get a pretty decent field for one big event tho. I'd watch if the play was of fairly high quality. I could do without something like that old made-4-tv deal with Mosconi and Fats, Legends of Pool or whatever it was. To me it was pretty lame.

I wonder if somebody would be interested in sponsoring a seniors tournament if not a tour presently. There are several guys in their 50s and 60s that can still play really well and it would be great to see them compete against each other. I'd like to see Earl, Morris, Archer, Efren, Bustamante, Wiley, McCreedy, Sigel, Varner, etc.

 

[westcoast]

Sigel never plays anymore and Nick plays some but not much. Those guys in their late 60's-70's probably not gonna do any tour. You might get a pretty decent field for one big event tho. I'd watch if the play was of fairly high quality. I could do without something like that old made-4-tv deal with Mosconi and Fats, Legends of Pool or whatever it was. To me it was pretty lame.

You'd have to give them some prep time. Sigel didn't embarrass himself against Earl a few years ago in the Accu stats match up.

Perhaps they could do some type of "Make It Happen" round robin with some of these guys

 

[RJPpool]

That would be great. I know him about 45 years. Do you know Neal and Vinny?

I know Neal and Vinny very well. I will post some great stories. I have a bunch.

 

[garczar]

You'd have to give them some prep time. Sigel didn't embarrass himself against Earl a few years ago in the Accu stats match up.

Perhaps they could do some type of "Make It Happen" round robin with some of these guys

I don't want to see ex-great embarrass themselves. I want to remember them from when i saw them in their prime. Senior 'anything' doesn't really do anything for me. I DO watch some senior golf 'cause those guys still shoot in the 60's well into their 60's. Senior pool players from 50-60ish maybe but one's skill set really drops off after that. There a few exceptions like Efren but not many.

 

[RJPpool]

A couple of quick Toby stories. Toby owned a small room above a bowling alley in Spring Valley N.Y. He would play anyone who came by. Two hispanic road players came in, they arranged a game, ten ahead for a considerable amount of money. We didn't play sets back then, by the game or ahead. They flipped a coin and Toby won the toss. He broke and ran the ten games. The backer paid him and said his player needed some weight. Toby said no. The backer said why? Toby said, I don't know how he plays. He wasn't being facetious, back then you never knew the speed of who you were playing. Another quick one involving Toby and Allen Hopkins. Toby had been on the road down south many times and did quite well. One time Allen went with him. Toby had beaten a big book maker for a lot of money. He told Allen that he wouldn't play him anymore, but Allen could play him. Toby described the man and told Allen he would wait in the car so as not to be associated with Allen. He gave Allen some money and said play him 9 ball, you'll rob him. About an hour later Allen comes out and asks for more money. Toby figured he was setting him up for a bigger bet. This happens 3 or 4 more times. Toby finally says,"Allen, did you play who I told you to?" Allen says yes. Toby said, that's impossible, he can't beat you at 9 ball. Allen says, "Oh, we didn't play 9 ball, we played gin". Toby wanted to kill him. They eventually got their money back, but not without a little. steam. I have many more, let me know if you would like to hear them. Thanks

 

[Black-Balled]

I have many more, let me know if you would like to hear them. Thanks

Of course we want to read them!

 

[pt109]

A couple of quick Toby stories. Toby owned a small room above a bowling alley in Spring Valley N.Y. He would play anyone who came by. Two hispanic road players came in, they arranged a game, ten ahead for a considerable amount of money. We didn't play sets back then, by the game or ahead. They flipped a coin and Toby won the toss. He broke and ran the ten games. The backer paid him and said his player needed some weight. Toby said no. The backer said why? Toby said, I don't know how he plays. He wasn't being facetious, back then you never knew the speed of who you were playing. Another quick one involving Toby and Allen Hopkins. Toby had been on the road down south many times and did quite well. One time Allen went with him. Toby had beaten a big book maker for a lot of money. He told Allen that he wouldn't play him anymore, but Allen could play him. Toby described the man and told Allen he would wait in the car so as not to be associated with Allen. He gave Allen some money and said play him 9 ball, you'll rob him. About an hour later Allen comes out and asks for more money. Toby figured he was setting him up for a bigger bet. This happens 3 or 4 more times. Toby finally says,"Allen, did you play who I told you to?" Allen says yes. Toby said, that's impossible, he can't beat you at 9 ball. Allen says, "Oh, we didn't play 9 ball, we played gin". Toby wanted to kill him. They eventually got their money back, but not without a little. steam. I have many more, let me know if you would like to hear them. Thanks

I’m guessing the place was Valdosta GA....and the bookie was Joe, who was an excellent gin player...
...he broke one of our best players from my area.

 

[RJPpool]

Okay, another Toby story. Toby and I were on a road trip to Boston to play Boston Shorty. We stopped in a well known 24 hour bowling alley with pool tables. Action galore. People betting on duck pin bowling, pool and everything else. We asked for a game. We were directed to this very ominous, nefarious looking character ,with a haircut like Moe of the three stooges and a constant scowl. He looked like he could be a serial killer but he loved action. We agreed on a $100 a game nine ball. This was a pretty good bet back then. The first five or ten games went back and forth, then Toby caught a gear and just started running racks. Well, this guy took steam and pulled out a wad of $100 bills and started laying them around the table. He then said, " I'm tired of going in my pocket, just take what you need after every game." This guy was way out there. Toby finally broke him and I was kind of glad as he was pretty scary. Before we left, I asked someone "who is this guy and what does he do for a living?" I figured maybe a contract killer. Nope, the person next to me says, "Oh, that's Bernie, he's an air traffic controller at Logan Airport. Remind me never to fly. More stories to come if you like.

 

[maha]

toby came around once in a while i think he was living in naulet near pearl river at the time but not sure. steve the whale hung around up there for awhile was half ass buddies. according to steve. toby wasnt such a great shot maker but his cueball was almost perfect and he shot out to shots he could make others couldn't.
no one wanted to play him nine ball shoot out.
he was a real live hippy looking dude then, big bell bottoms and bare feet sometimes and beautiful girls friends.
later he went on a road trip with cuban joe. they won a bunch 50 to 80 grand. but you can bet he got short changed on his partnership. but that had to be a steamy trip with the cuban as he was hard core.

 

[easy-e]

Okay, another Toby story. Toby and I were on a road trip to Boston to play Boston Shorty. We stopped in a well known 24 hour bowling alley with pool tables. Action galore. People betting on duck pin bowling, pool and everything else. We asked for a game. We were directed to this very ominous, nefarious looking character ,with a haircut like Moe of the three stooges and a constant scowl. He looked like he could be a serial killer but he loved action. We agreed on a $100 a game nine ball. This was a pretty good bet back then. The first five or ten games went back and forth, then Toby caught a gear and just started running racks. Well, this guy took steam and pulled out a wad of $100 bills and started laying them around the table. He then said, " I'm tired of going in my pocket, just take what you need after every game." This guy was way out there. Toby finally broke him and I was kind of glad as he was pretty scary. Before we left, I asked someone "who is this guy and what does he do for a living?" I figured maybe a contract killer. Nope, the person next to me says, "Oh, that's Bernie, he's an air traffic controller at Logan Airport. Remind me never to fly. More stories to come if you like.

Chump change nowadays.

 

[sjm]

I don't want to see ex-great embarrass themselves. I want to remember them from when i saw them in their prime. Senior 'anything' doesn't really do anything for me. I DO watch some senior golf 'cause those guys still shoot in the 60's well into their 60's. Senior pool players from 50-60ish maybe but one's skill set really drops off after that. There a few exceptions like Efren but not many.

Ditto. I'm sure there are others, but the only American 60-something on my radar that still gets more than his share of wins against the current crop of top professionals is Ike Runnels, who still plays all the games well.

You're also correct about the Legends series of the early 1980s in Atlantic City, one of which I attended. Even though it had a fun element to it, watching the likes of Mosconi, Crane and Lassiter playing so far below the speed they were known for was a little uncomfortable.

 

[middleofnowhere]

toby came around once in a while i think he was living in naulet near pearl river at the time but not sure. steve the whale hung around up there for awhile was half ass buddies. according to steve. toby wasnt such a great shot maker but his cueball was almost perfect and he shot out to shots he could make others couldn't.
no one wanted to play him nine ball shoot out.
he was a real live hippy looking dude then, big bell bottoms and bare feet sometimes and beautiful girls friends.
later he went on a road trip with cuban joe. they won a bunch 50 to 80 grand. but you can bet he got short changed on his partnership. but that had to be a steamy trip with the cuban as he was hard core.

Big Steve, there's a blast from the past. I actually liked him. He swindled me out of like $300. once. Rather then get mad I wanted to learn what he did and he told me.

It was not really illeagle. Long story short, I made over 800 thousand over the next year before it all came to an end and I owed that to Steve. I just did what Steve was doing just on a much much bigger scale.

Not many people knew it but Big Steve was a good player. Another thing Steve was not very brave as big as he was. If there was trouble he could not be counted on. I don't know what he died from but I heard he weighed like 100 lbs.

 

[middleofnowhere]

Ditto. I'm sure there are others, but the only American 60-something on my radar that still gets more than his share of wins against the current crop of top professionals is Ike Runnels, who still plays all the games well.

You're also correct about the Legends series of the early 1980s in Atlantic City, one of which I attended. Even though it had a fun element to it, watching the likes of Mosconi, Crane and Lassiter playing so far below the speed they were known for was a little uncomfortable.

There is a difference between like an old timers ball game and an actual compitition.
It would be embarrising and as you said uncomfortable to watch.

 

[maha]

steve played very well but found little action. mostly because he was so imposing and to play someone like that isnt fun and scary of what the consequences might be. especially not knowing steve was really a pussy and if you challenged him on something he backed down.
i remember him trying to sell zip guns in new jersey. that would have landed him in jail for ten years. he had no idea of illegal and stupid when it came to his exploits.

 

[westcoast]

There is a difference between like an old timers ball game and an actual compitition.
It would be embarrising and as you said uncomfortable to watch.

Most of the guys I listed can still play well: Earl, Morris, Efren, Bustamante, Archer, etc. Another guy over 50 who can still play well who I forgot to mention is Souquet.

Even Sigel showed he was capable of playing well against Earl in his Accu stats match up a few years ago. He lost, but he didn't embarrass himself.

 

[garczar]

Most of the guys I listed can still play well: Earl, Morris, Efren, Bustamante, Archer, etc. Another guy over 50 who can still play well who I forgot to mention is Souquet.

Even Sigel showed he was capable of playing well against Earl in his Accu stats match up a few years ago. He lost, but he didn't embarrass himself.

You might be able to do a pretty decent 8-man(maybe 16 but that's pushing it imo) round-robin format event. Do it somewhere like DerbyCity where you already have an audience of pool junkies, many who are 50+.

 

[maha]

a senior tournament just like an amateur one isn't for to make money from spectators, it is for the participants to have a fun tournament.

 

[jay helfert]

Big Steve, there's a blast from the past. I actually liked him. He swindled me out of like $300. once. Rather then get mad I wanted to learn what he did and he told me.

It was not really illeagle. Long story short, I made over 800 thousand over the next year before it all came to an end and I owed that to Steve. I just did what Steve was doing just on a much much bigger scale.

Not many people knew it but Big Steve was a good player. Another thing Steve was not very brave as big as he was. If there was trouble he could not be counted on. I don't know what he died from but I heard he weighed like 100 lbs.

Steve stole my Szamboti cue that I had loaned to Keith, who went on to win the BC Open and $25,000 playing with it. The story of how I got it back is in my book and I also told it on the Gambling With An Edge podcast I did a couple of weeks ago. I do another podcast tomorrow, 10 AM PST. .