Joss cues - could you consider them more custom or production

[Johnny Rosato]

No, it is not. Lots of people love their Joss and that's fine. Unlike Pechauer (which is my favorite) Joss does not offer much of a warranty, and there have been people with defects who called the factory and were told "tough luck." If you think Joss is the best cue out there I have no problem with that, but I prefer to deal with a company that stands behind their products. Just my opinion.

My neighbor was here when I posted my comment Sunday. I mentioned what I wrote and he reminded me, if he remembers correctly,
that a guy on this forum was told by Dan Janes at Joss that if the cue has been chalked the warranty is voided. I had forgotten about that.
Does anyone know if that's true?

 

[Chili Palmer]

I would call them a semi-custom maker. They mass produce specific models of cues but they will still build you whatever you want.

 

[mikemosconi]

This really highlights why words like "custom" vs "production" are totally used incorrectly for pool cues. It also highlights why the general public has given unfair meaning to the word "production," when they have really no idea how that "production" is being achieved. Production isn't opposite of custom. And most so-called "custom" cues aren't built with any customer in mind. Yet one cuemaker will be called a custom cuemaker while the other is called a production. That's just wrong, especially if "production" carries a negative connotation.

Very good insight into cue maker definitions! I generally like to think of a so called "custom" shop as one where a minimal number of pairs of hands touch the cue during the entire cue production cycle - usually one, maybe two, usually not more than that in my own personal definition of a custom shop. However, with automation advances, maybe today a so called "production" cue is only actually touched by one or two pairs of hands as well in many " production" factories.

I think, in the end, it is all in the eyes and hands of the cue owner, the definition of where a cue came from is far less important than how one feels about playing with a particular cue. I have great respect for my "custom" cues as to how they were constructed and play, but I often marvel as well at how well constructed and also the playability of some of my owned "production cues"

Some of the "production" cue companies did an outstanding job in consistency - I will just cite Huebler as an example - I bought one 32 years ago- sold it after owning it 20 years- loved how it played and so I bought another this year- model H-A from the 1980s and it also looks and plays fantastic! Paul Huebler did an unbelievable job in making his production facility turn out cues that look and feel like he made every one himself.

 

[JB Cases]

Hello ,

I have looking thru the Joss line of cues and I have been eyeing the N7 Color of Money cue. I like the look and it has that old school vibe and being a fan of the movie makes it a neat cue. Now , I have been talking with Dan Janes of Joss cues and He told me that Only Himself and his Son builds all the cues. No assembly line or production team. He said my Son and I personally build every Cue that comes out of here. He said he has been building cues for over 40 years and does everything the same way by hand. I have always liked Joss cues although they are not popular around here and don’t think I ever see one at the local hall. My question would be with Dan and his Son building the cues by hand talking the time to make sure they are exactly right would it make the cue better than say a machine factory made cue perhaps.

Production, semi-custom and almost full custom design. To me full custom means in specs/build as well as decoration. Almost full custom means that you have some leeway in specs and a broad range of decoration choices. Joss cues fit into the three categories I have listed. I am happy to say that I have owned Joss cues in all three categories and my current custom Joss is amazing.

I have found NO quality differences or playing differences between any of them.

 

[JB Cases]

My neighbor was here when I posted my comment Sunday. I mentioned what I wrote and he reminded me, if he remembers correctly,
that a guy on this forum was told by Dan Janes at Joss that if the cue has been chalked the warranty is voided. I had forgotten about that.
Does anyone know if that's true?

If there is a warranty then it would make zero sense that use of the cue would void it.

 

[JB Cases]

If there is a warranty then it would make zero sense that use of the cue would void it.

here is the terms of service. It is correct that chalking indicates that the buyer has accepted the cue in the condition that it was received. I cannot tell whether this voids the warranty or merely informs that something like a cosmetic issue will not be considered to be under warranty IF the buyer chalks the cue.

"All Joss Cues® leave the shop straight and in new condition. When you receive or buy your cue, inspect it thoroughly. If you chalk and use your Joss Cues®, this is a sign of acceptance of the cue in the condition in which it was received."

Terms of Service - Joss Cues - Family owned - Handmade since 1968

Terms of service at Joss Cues in Towson, MD, we employ a transparent approach when doing any kind of business with our customers.

josscues.com

 

[Donkeybutt]

is the hit from the Joss similar to that of a custom cue? That would be the true test I think.

 

[trob]

Production

 

[trob]

View attachment 592334

Just because they put the word custom on it doesn’t mean it’s custom

 

[Cornerman]

Just because they put the word custom on it doesn’t mean it’s custom

Why not? Dan was making about a dozen cues every year that were specifically truly custom orders. What is your definition of custom ?

 

[Cornerman]

is the hit from the Joss similar to that of a custom cue? That would be the true test I think.

I don’t get this as the tell all either. Every custom cue I have hits differently. Many people think Joss is the best hitting cue they own. Many people don’t really like the hit of Joss cues.

 

[mikemosconi]

is the hit from the Joss similar to that of a custom cue? That would be the true test I think.

There is NO Such thing as a custom cue "hit". If all custom cues hit the same; then most of the custom cue makers would never have been able to make a business for themselves - that is just common sense. Does every "custom" made violin sound the same? I doubt it- ask a Stradivarius owner why they would not sell their violin for $ 3 million.

 

[CESSNA10]

is the hit from the Joss similar to that of a custom cue? That would be the true test I think.

I owned 2 black boar cues back in 90's and I say the joss cues
hit just as well

 

[Donkeybutt]

There is NO Such thing as a custom cue "hit". If all custom cues hit the same; then most of the custom cue makers would never have been able to make a business for themselves - that is just common sense. Does every "custom" made violin sound the same? I doubt it- ask a Stradivarius owner why they would not sell their violin for $ 3 million.

ok, then the next question is: is the hit from a custom cue generally better than a hit from a production cue?

 

[mikemosconi]

It is all subjective my friend. some folks love the hit of McDermott, some might like an old Meucci, some would not give up their Tascarella custom; every single person has their own likes and dislikes when it comes to cue "hits" and cue construction components from tip to bumper.

In my opinion there is no general answer because every poll ever done on this site as to favored cue or cue maker gets hundreds of different responses. I , personally, have had positive and negative feelings about certain production and custom cues - I cannot say there is a general answer to your question. My best advice is spend $75- buy the book "Play Great Pool" by Mark Wilson. Once your stroke meets his challenge in the book, you are then ready to worry about the hit of a production cue vs. custom cue- which is a question that cannot be answered the same by all anyhow.

I firmly believe that a pool stroke has to meet very, very high standards before one can really begin to fully understand the effect that one very good cue vs. another very good cue will have on their game. How a cue "feels" in your hands is one thing to consider; and how YOU feel the cue helps you to COMPLETE a very pure pool stroke is another major aspect - defined as the "hit".

A "custom" cue can be made to the specifications that you have learned through experience help a cue to feel its best in your hands ( weight to the 10th of an ounce, weight distribution- balance, type of wrap or lack thereof, etc.) The effect on the cue ball " hit" and feedback to your body upon stroke completion, might also be tailored and fine tuned with such things as hardness or softness of tip, ferrule material, shaft material ( wood, carbon fiber, LD), then you have shaft taper, joint construction and material used in that joint construction, wood selections, etc. etc.

NO GENERAL ANSWERS! Sorry- it is all personal trial and judgement until one settles on their favored choices in all of the above.

 

[Donkeybutt]

thanks Mike! Sounds like it's all a matter of preference.

 

[HawaiianEye]

ok, then the next question is: is the hit from a custom cue generally better than a hit from a production cue?

No.

It depends on the cue.

 

[garczar]

ok, then the next question is: is the hit from a custom cue generally better than a hit from a production cue?

Define 'better'. Generally no. I've had Lucasi's that hit 'better' than cues 10x the price. My current Mezz retails for less than 500bux and plays as good as any i've owned over 40yrs of owning about everything. 'Better' is a VERY subjective way to describe how a cue plays. My 'better' might be 'that thing sucks' to someone else.

 

[jay helfert]

It's nice to read a thread that speaks about the good qualities of a cuemaker. There is a good reason that Dan Janes has been a highly respected member of the pool community for 50 years! He is a man of integrity and his word is good. He makes a good product at a fair value. Those qualities have been integral to his success all these years. Joss Cues is truly one of the great success stories I've seen in Pool in my lifetime, and it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy! Bravo Dan Janes and thank you for your continued devotion and support for our sport. You're in my HOF buddy!

 

[garczar]

It's nice to read a thread that speaks about the good qualities of a cuemaker. There is a good reason that Dan Janes has been a highly respected member of the pool community for 50 years! He is a man of integrity and his word is good. He makes a good product at a fair value. Those qualities have been integral to his success all these years. Joss Cues is truly one of the great success stories I've seen in Pool in my lifetime, and it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy! Bravo Dan Janes and thank you for your continued devotion and support for our sport. You're in my HOF buddy!

I called Dan a while back and when i told him i was in Tulsa he asked about Fat Randy a few other famous/notorious locals. Randy was one of the first guys here to push/sell Dan's cues. Super nice guy and they build fine cues, from around 300bux to whatever you feel like spending.