can use break app, etc. to determine draw stroke speed?

[evergruven]

I've honestly never used a break app, I guess because I don't care that much about the speed of my break
but it popped into my head that knowing the speed of a draw stroke could be useful- anybody mess around with such a thing?

 

[David in FL]

All those break speed apps do is measure the difference in time between when you strike the cue ball and when the cue ball strikes the next ball. An efficient/effective draw is so much more than that. I honestly don’t see any benefit.

I’d be interested to hear somebody smarter than me disagree and show me how I’m wrong though…

 

[evergruven]

All those break speed apps do is measure the difference in time between when you strike the cue ball and when the cue ball strikes the next ball. An efficient/effective draw is so much more than that. I honestly don’t see any benefit.

I’d be interested to hear somebody smarter than me disagree and show me how I’m wrong though…

again I'm just poking at the idea, but because a significant aspect of a (power) draw shot is speed (right?)
so I'm thinking maybe the app, etc. could be useful to dig into draw performance.

 

[hang-the-9]

While I can see knowing the break speed for training, not sure how knowing the speed the cueball is traveling would work for any other shots. I mean you either get to where you need to be, or you don't, the speed of the ball does not matter. You either have the stroke to go full table, or you don't, knowing your cueball is traveling 10mph or 12 does not matter there, especially since the tables speeds vary quite a bit. For the break it's a bit of a different story since the cueball does not travel around the table, rather it sends the force into the stack, so it's hard to measure speed there. For an actual shot that goes around the table, you just need to measure how far it travels and how accurately not the speed.

 

[justnum]

All those break speed apps do is measure the difference in time between when you strike the cue ball and when the cue ball strikes the next ball. An efficient/effective draw is so much more than that. I honestly don’t see any benefit.

I’d be interested to hear somebody smarter than me disagree and show me how I’m wrong though…

break speed app is not a worthwhile pursuit

should be fun to hear people argue for though

 

[justnum]

again I'm just poking at the idea, but because a significant aspect of a (power) draw shot is speed (right?)
so I'm thinking maybe the app, etc. could be useful to dig into draw performance.

for dig on draw youd want to measure things visually

visual analysis takes more processing power than sound analysis.

the two challenges i encountered were recording the contact between cue and cue ball with a high frames per second.

the other being i only have two hands to operate all the equipment.

 

[BRussell]

The best draw strokes would have the slowest speed for a given amount of cue ball action. Set up a shot, make a ball and draw the cue ball back a certain amount (e.g., 3 diamonds, or a table length, etc.), and whoever has the slowest speed on the break app has the best draw stroke.

 

[garczar]

I've honestly never used a break app, I guess because I don't care that much about the speed of my break
but it popped into my head that knowing the speed of a draw stroke could be useful- anybody mess around with such a thing?

Just play the damn game. Knowing your 'draw speed' isn't going to help one thing.

 

[BRussell]

Here’s a challenge that tests how much draw you can get while keeping the shot as slow as possible. From here: https://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2012/may12.pdf

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I've honestly never used a break app, I guess because I don't care that much about the speed of my break
but it popped into my head that knowing the speed of a draw stroke could be useful- anybody mess around with such a thing?

Break speed apps measure the CB's speed, not the cue's - and the CB's speed isn't the important thing for draw.

Practice hitting low on the ball - looking at the CB last helps.

pj
chgo

 

[evergruven]

The best draw strokes would have the slowest speed for a given amount of cue ball action. Set up a shot, make a ball and draw the cue ball back a certain amount (e.g., 3 diamonds, or a table length, etc.), and whoever has the slowest speed on the break app has the best draw stroke.

hey B, thanks for the shout
maybe I'm not understanding you, but slow seems counterintuitive..can you elaborate?

Break speed apps measure the CB's speed, not the cue's - and the CB's speed isn't the important thing for draw.

Practice hitting low on the ball - looking at the CB last helps.

pj
chgo

thanks pat, I thought good/power draw is low tip placement+power/cue speed. nah?

I got on this idea after reading from dr. dave site- he said "Generally, to get more draw, you must hit the cue ball harder and lower"

thanks all for the replies

 

[Patrick Johnson]

thanks pat, I thought good/power draw is low tip placement+power/cue speed. nah?

I got on this idea after reading from dr. dave site- he said "Generally, to get more draw, you must hit the cue ball harder and lower"

Learn lower first.

pj
chgo

 

[mikemosconi]

The best draw strokes would have the slowest speed for a given amount of cue ball action. Set up a shot, make a ball and draw the cue ball back a certain amount (e.g., 3 diamonds, or a table length, etc.), and whoever has the slowest speed on the break app has the best draw stroke.

Yes, I think you are far better off striving for a cue stroke that gets through the cue ball to create whatever spin you desire ( for draw it would be backspin) with the least amount of cue stick speed. Think about creating revolutions of the cue ball, not about speed of cue stick to the cue ball- far better in the long run! Smoothness of stroke is just that - it is not about speed itself - it is the act of getting THROUGH the cue ball with controlled speed, gradually accelerating until a natural stop of the cue tip beyond where the cue ball lied and onto the table cloth itself.

 

[td873]

I thought Digicue had a stroke speed report?

But, like others have said, I’m not sure that value is a meaningful data point. Draw is easily measure on the table whereas break speed is not. For example, you can set up a straight in shot with 2 diamonds between the balls and see how far the cue balls draws. Counting diamonds or tables of draw is usually a sufficient measure.

-td

 

[BRussell]

hey B, thanks for the shout
maybe I'm not understanding you, but slow seems counterintuitive..can you elaborate?

Like others have said, anyone can hit hard, but can you hit it nice and low and accurately? A soft draw is important because you’re more likely to make the shot; if you need to hit it really hard when you draw, you‘re more likely to rattle the ball.

 

[fastone371]

break speed app is not a worthwhile pursuit

should be fun to hear people argue for though

Why would you say that?? My argument is that the break speed app does does exactly what it is supposed to do and it does so very accurately. I have the app on my phone and I also have a BreakRak with RADAR, I get equal numbers when using both at the same time, what more could someone ask for???

 

[fastone371]

The best draw strokes would have the slowest speed for a given amount of cue ball action. Set up a shot, make a ball and draw the cue ball back a certain amount (e.g., 3 diamonds, or a table length, etc.), and whoever has the slowest speed on the break app has the best draw stroke.

If someone wants to see an example of slow cue speed with a lot of draw watch some of Tyler Styer's matches on youtube, he gets a lot of draw with relatively little speed.

 

[justnum]

Why would you say that?? My argument is that the break speed app does does exactly what it is supposed to do and it does so very accurately. I have the app on my phone and I also have a BreakRak with RADAR, I get equal numbers when using both at the same time, what more could someone ask for???

I am trying to connect a gyroscopic sensor to my cue stick.
I want digital feedback on what I am doing.

Just like how cars have digital diagnostic systems, I could ask for more evidence of what I think I am doing versus what is actually happening.

instead of just saying i missed the shot, itd be nice to know how much i missed a shot by or which part of my execution was not correct.

 

[fastone371]

I am trying to connect a gyroscopic sensor to my cue stick.
I want digital feedback on what I am doing.

Just like how cars have digital diagnostic systems, I could ask for more evidence of what I think I am doing versus what is actually happening.

instead of just saying i missed the shot, itd be nice to know how much i missed a shot by or which part of my execution was not correct.

What does that have to do with the break speed app?? For a diagnostic tool to know why you missed a shot it would need to know where you where shooting, amount of english, cue deflection, etc. seems like a pretty monumental task. Isnt that what the QMD was??? http://www.cue-md.com/

 

[justnum]

What does that have to do with the break speed app?? For a diagnostic tool to know why you missed a shot it would need to know where you where shooting, amount of english, cue deflection, etc. seems like a pretty monumental task. Isnt that what the QMD was??? http://www.cue-md.com/

i never had cue md.

jumping the cue ball on the break is it worth it? thats a question that could be studied but the data available is mostly verbal and not scientific