Sharp points???

[Kato]

Can someone here tell me a few things....
1. What IS a sharp point?
2. How can you tell a CNC point from handmade or any other way, for that matter, by looking at the cue?
3. Can comparison pictures be posted showing the differences between the two?
4. I am trying to treat myself to a new, higher end cue. I currently have Joss, Cuetec, Players and McDermott and I would like to purchase something awesome, semi-handmade but it is becoming evident I do not know what I am looking at!
Thanks

 

[garczar]

Can someone here tell me a few things....
1. What IS a sharp point?
2. How can you tell a CNC point from handmade or any other way, for that matter, by looking at the cue?
3. Can comparison pictures be posted showing the differences between the two?
4. I am trying to treat myself to a new, higher end cue. I currently have Joss, Cuetec, Players and McDermott and I would like to purchase something awesome, semi-handmade but it is becoming evident I do not know what I am looking at!
Thanks

CNC points are generally rounded-off at the tips of the points.

 

[middleofnowhere]

Can someone here tell me a few things....
1. What IS a sharp point?
2. How can you tell a CNC point from handmade or any other way, for that matter, by looking at the cue?
3. Can comparison pictures be posted showing the differences between the two?
4. I am trying to treat myself to a new, higher end cue. I currently have Joss, Cuetec, Players and McDermott and I would like to purchase something awesome, semi-handmade but it is becoming evident I do not know what I am looking at!
Thanks

Cnc points are essentially an inlay. Sharp points as you call them are a splice.
Billy Stroud made cnc points that were sharp by just finishing the pocket to be sharp. You could still tell if you knew what to look for.

 

[Greg M]

To answer your second question, hand spliced cues have rounded points which are achieved by gluing the butt timber around the shaft and planing it down. The result are rounded splice peaks.

I've never seen or heard of any hand spliced American pool cues, but my English pool cue is hand spliced. Image shown below. I've also included an image of a machine spliced English pool/snooker cue to compare it.

 

[SpiderWeb]

If the cnc sharp points have veneers you can tell.
but points without veneers look the same if the cnc man is good.

 

[ShootingArts]

If the CNC is just a cut pocket and point to match each other the smallest point will usually be thirty thousandths of an inch, the diameter of the smallest common NC cutting bit, or this was true the last I knew. Then there are ways to "cheat" points after cutting NC points, even while cutting them. The soft arches are usually called butterfly cuts in the US. An earlier picture in this thread of a snooker cue seemed to show both butterfly splices and a very short full splice where you see the points and square ends.

There are ways to do things and to seem to do them. It pays to remember that the cues from the old masters sold for $75 to a couple hundred dollars new for the most part. Like modern cue builders they too had some tricks of the trade. The good news is functionally rounded points from NC inlays are no better or worse than other inlays. On the primary splice I would say full splice is better, but that has to be qualified by saying full splice from someone that was good at doing it. White fillers and black are available so female sharp pointed pockets can have rounded end inlays dropped in and filler added. A lot of options.

Veneers can be decoration, or a bit of a crutch serving as filler as they are usually made from poplar, a very soft wood, or even paper. Saturated with glue strength isn't an issue but veneers will fill in a less than perfect fit nicely.

If paying a nice price for a cue, buy one built by a recognized builder and ask them how it was built if it matters to you. What the end user doesn't know can fill a book, several shelves, maybe a bookcase! You have to educate yourself a bit then decide what matters to you.

Hu

 

[JC]

The difference between sharp points and the otherwise often takes a keen eye to see. Keen eyes also often spend money on things others can't understand.

 

[Michael Webb]

Can someone here tell me a few things....
1. What IS a sharp point?
2. How can you tell a CNC point from handmade or any other way, for that matter, by looking at the cue?
3. Can comparison pictures be posted showing the differences between the two?
4. I am trying to treat myself to a new, higher end cue. I currently have Joss, Cuetec, Players and McDermott and I would like to purchase something awesome, semi-handmade but it is becoming evident I do not know what I am looking at!
Thanks

Time sensitive

 

[Michael Webb]

Floating, drop pocket or normally called CNC points. I do not have pictures to describe them better. I've only done I think 5 of them in the 90's so my experience is very limited when it comes to doing them. But I have seen a couple done with a very small cutter that look like Vee points.
Hope some of this helps.

 

[7stud]

Can someone here tell me a few things....
1. What IS a sharp point?
2. How can you tell a CNC point from handmade or any other way, for that matter, by looking at the cue?
3. Can comparison pictures be posted showing the differences between the two?
4. I am trying to treat myself to a new, higher end cue. I currently have Joss, Cuetec, Players and McDermott and I would like to purchase something awesome, semi-handmade but it is becoming evident I do not know what I am looking at!
Thanks

And, as I found out in the cuemaker's forum, there is more. There are sharp points made with "overlapped" veneers, and there are sharp points made with "mitered" veneers. If you take a close look at a picture of the points on an Ariel Carmeli cue (overlapped veneers), you will notice that a point is formed entirely by either the left or right veneer, while with mitered veneers a point is formed by half of each veneer. To me, overlapped veneers look crooked: the glue line extending from the tip of a point formed by the veneers will veer to the left or right, instead of extending straight through the point formed by the next pair of veneers, as with mitered veneers.

See here:

Construction of sharp points

I read a cue review on azbilliards, and the person described how the points on his cue were constructed. Only one side of a veneer actually reached the point. The other veneer was sliced off below the point. You can see that method of...

forums.azbilliards.com

And, I think there is another technique where the points are "recut", so there are no glue lines at all extending from the tip of a point. If you imagine the outer veneer color being one solid point, I think the cuemaker then cuts another interior point, which is slightly smaller than the outer point, which makes what's left of the outer point look like a veneer.

Sharp:

Not sharp:

 

[Ssonerai]

I've never seen or heard of any hand spliced American pool cues,

Many of the early BBC cues were hand spliced.
Americans always did it the hard way, though.
Full splice, 4 prong.
GB cue makers never seemed to develop the knack and went with the easier common woodworking joint known as a "fishmouth" joint outside the billiards specific world.

From the BBC archives, 1926:

At that time in the US. they still sighted and handplaned the blanks round, as is still done for custom cues in GB.

smt

 

[garczar]

Many of the early BBC cues were hand spliced.
Americans always did it the hard way, though.
Full splice, 4 prong.
GB cue makers never seemed to develop the knack and went with the easier common woodworking joint known as a "fishmouth" joint outside the billiards specific world.

From the BBC archives, 1926:

View attachment 593481

At that time in the US. they still sighted and handplaned the blanks round, as is still done for custom cues in GB.
View attachment 593482

smt

I read somewhere that at their peak B'wick's cue shops were turning out 400,000 cues/yr. WOW.

 

[Michael Webb]

And, as I found out in the cuemaker's forum, there is more. There are sharp points made with "overlapped" veneers, and there are sharp points made with "mitered" veneers. If you take a close look at a picture of the points on an Ariel Carmeli cue (overlapped veneers), you will notice that a point is formed entirely by either the left or right veneer, while with mitered veneers a point is formed by half of each veneer. To me, stacked veneers look crooked: the glue line extending from the tip of a point formed by the veneers will veer to the left or right, instead of extending straight through the point formed by the next pair of veneers, as with mitered veneers.

See here:

Construction of sharp points

I read a cue review on azbilliards, and the person described how the points on his cue were constructed. Only one side of a veneer actually reached the point. The other veneer was sliced off below the point. You can see that method of...

forums.azbilliards.com

Sharp:

View attachment 593484
Not sha

Time sensitive

 

[Michael Webb]

Thank you to the OP by the way. There's finally a thread I have an interest in.
IT'S BEEN A WHILE!

 

[7stud]

I read somewhere that at their peak B'wick's cue shops were turning out 400,000 cues/yr. WOW.

In the Greeleaf book, it says Brunswick was the largest consumer of lumber in the world.

 

[garczar]

In the Greeleaf book, it says Brunswick was the largest consumer of lumber in the world.

They had their own forests and slate quarries.

 

[Michael Webb]

Of course it wouldn't be me without pictures. I did this cue as a JOKE at first to prove a point when people were saying it's ok to dye the epoxy when installing the points. I said and still say, if you have to dye the epoxy, there's a problem and the people doing it, haven't figured it out yet! Meaning the Points don't fit the channel. YOU can fake it but YOU shouldn't have too. Please don't hate. I mean well.

 

[Michael Webb]

Time sensitive

 

[Quesports]

I would like to know if someone can explain how Skip Weston constructed his veneered points. I owned one years ago and the points/veneers were stunning.. Anyone know?

 

[Michael Webb]

I would like to know if someone can explain how Skip Weston constructed his veneered points. I owned one years ago and the points/veneers were stunning.. Anyone know?

If memory serves.
Milled one piece veneers out of hard woods. Then all glued together and installed into the Forearm. Skip was awesome at it and consistent.