Diamond arrived update

chenjy9

Well-known member
Did this thread get bumped into the aiming forum...? Whole bunch of other variables that have nothing to do with the point.

The point was a visual cosmetic flaw on a very expensive item, and accepting the personal use of a sharpie rather than holding the manufacturer responsible.

This is an interesting response. A question was asked and I answered and explained my answer. I wasn’t the one who introduced TVs into the conversation.

In short, small cosmetic flaws are something I accept if the product performs how I want in the way that I am actually trying to use it.


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GoldCrown

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Best way to avoid cosmetic/flaw disappointment is buy “used as is”. Or deal with a Scratch and Dent outlet. Or maybe items should be offered with the option of New without flaws or New with flaws.
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Look at the sites on any Diamond table, anywhere, then tell me how much you notice in your line of sight. You've played on them before, but never noticed the sites, being so flawed, why haven't you noticed that before now?
For the second time you avoided my question. But I'll answer yours....
I played on a new Rosewood Diamond table at a friend's house in Michigan. I LOVED that table.

We played on it. I looked at it from every angle....even from laying on the floor. I tried to see every feature about it. It truly was flawless. Rails and sights included. It truly looking like a piece of art!

That's when I decided I will get one someday. I guess I expect ALL Diamond tables to be like his. Maybe I'm expecting too much.

Now answer my question.... and honestly.
 
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GoldCrown

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Or inspect ON DELIVERY and return if not happy. Story sound kinda familiar?
Yes Master. I have learned. So if a new table has a reasonable flaw and can be fixed.... Maybe the top rail or skirt can be replaced the buyer should reject the table instead of waiting for a replacement part?
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes Master. I have learned. So if a new table has a reasonable flaw and can be fixed.... Maybe the top rail or skirt can be replaced the buyer should reject the table instead of waiting for a replacement part?
I'm just jacking with 'ya brother. If i ordered a NEW Diamond i'd inspect the shit out of it. They'd either take it back or replace the bad part. If i ordered a used tournament model(which is what i'd do) i wouldn't worry about a few bumps/dents/etc. A friend bought a tourn. table and saved around 2grand.
 

GoldCrown

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Did the OP do the right thing? Was he to reject the table? I side with him 100% for bringing the situation here. Back to Who do you call if a problem. The seller, the manufacturer, Dear Abby? Start with one or both and see where it goes. The buyers are not the bad guy.
 
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GoldCrown

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I'm just jacking with 'ya brother. If i ordered a NEW Diamond i'd inspect the shit out of it. They'd either take it back or replace the bad part. If i ordered a used tournament model(which is what i'd do) i wouldn't worry about a few bumps/dents/etc. A friend bought a tourn. table and saved around 2grand.
We're cool. New is new...used is used. ( I made that up myself).
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
This is an interesting response. A question was asked and I answered and explained my answer. I wasn’t the one who introduced TVs into the conversation.
Far enough... However your thoughts on the display lottery have no bearing on the acceptance of the flaw, if we stuck to the point. Consider that the only way to convert your display lottery explaination to the purchase of a new table would something along the lines of being that the brand new table happened to flat/level, have the right colour cloth and put on correctly, and the pockets being sized to requested spec, after the install was done. Any of those items are not luck of the draw so to speak and acceptable regardless. They are "must be's" or it's simply not acceptable.

Maybe the TV analogy wasn't the best if we choose to look at the forrest rather than the tree I was speaking of.
In short, small cosmetic flaws are something I accept if the product performs how I want in the way that I am actually trying to use it.
That's cool... ...and I would as well depending on the location and severity.
 

chenjy9

Well-known member
Far enough... However your thoughts on the display lottery have no bearing on the acceptance of the flaw, if we stuck to the point. Consider that the only way to convert your display lottery explaination to the purchase of a new table would something along the lines of being that the brand new table happened to flat/level, have the right colour cloth and put on correctly, and the pockets being sized to requested spec, after the install was done. Any of those items are not luck of the draw so to speak and acceptable regardless. They are "must be's" or it's simply not acceptable.

Maybe the TV analogy wasn't the best if we choose to look at the forrest rather than the tree I was speaking of.

That's cool... ...and I would as well depending on the location and severity.

If we are trying to draw direct comparisons, for me it would be like this:
  • Bezel = Rails
  • Panel = Felt, cushions, pockets size, slate, frame, leveled
If the "panel" (things that affect functionality) are good, I would rather keep the table instead of going through the hassle of returning it and waiting for another one and live with any visual blemishes. It's going to get scuffed up by various things over time anyways. Now if there were things that affected the "panel", then that would be an entirely different story and more similar to the one that the OP is dealing with.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If we are trying to draw direct comparisons, for me it would be like this:
  • Bezel = Rails
  • Panel = Felt, cushions, pockets size, slate, frame, leveled
If the "panel" (things that affect functionality) are good, I would rather keep the table instead of going through the hassle of returning it and waiting for another one and live with any visual blemishes. It's going to get scuffed up by various things over time anyways. Now if there were things that affected the "panel", then that would be an entirely different story and more similar to the one that the OP is dealing with.
If i went that route there would be compensation of some sort. Free cover, better set of balls, $$, something.
 

WGDave

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If we are trying to draw direct comparisons, for me it would be like this:
  • Bezel = Rails
  • Panel = Felt, cushions, pockets size, slate, frame, leveled
If the "panel" (things that affect functionality) are good, I would rather keep the table instead of going through the hassle of returning it and waiting for another one and live with any visual blemishes. It's going to get scuffed up by various things over time anyways. Now if there were things that affected the "panel", then that would be an entirely different story and more similar to the one that the OP is dealing with.
If some in this thread spent any time over at the AVS Forums, they'd realize what a big deal the panel lottery actually is.

In fairness to Diamond, that blemish near that sight is very uncommon. It is the first that I have ever come across reading these forums.

To the OP @Nyquil - Can you please take a few more pictures? Another close up of the bad sight, and then another back away a few feet. Then do the same thing of what you consider a good sight with the same two pictures. That will help rule out if there are artifacts from the camera/photo that are exaggerating the defect.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
In fairness to Diamond, that blemish near that sight is very uncommon. It is the first that I have ever come across reading these forums.
Exactly my thoughts as well... Of course, and apologies for beating this dead horse, my opinion ain't worth shit...lol
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I'm having a bit of a hard time believing what you just said. I'm not talking about a production cue here. For my hypothetical example, I'm talking about a $2000 or $3,000 custom cue, which by the way, are alnost always works of art. I dont think anyone would expect or accept less then perfect.
See, I'm not the type of person to buy such a cue. I care about playing and I'd rather have a plain jane cue (like I do now) that shoots great. Why pay $3k for a stick that shoots no better than a $600 one? In other words, it's different markets, a fancy cue has to look perfect, even if it plays perfect, it plays no better than a cheaper cue without inlays. You are literally buying art, not a utilitarian tool.

Pool tables... yeah you want it to look perfect, especially if you dropped $$$ on it, but a pool table is not a work of art. It's utilitarian. If it plays good I could let a lot slide on the looks department. I'm not talking OP's experience, just in general.
I wish I could add that I think you're better man than I for being so nonchalant about such matters.
Not a better man, just one broken enough to know I can't worry about everything or I'll go nuts. 😬
If I were to spin another example. Lets pretend you bought yourself a custom cue from whoever is the top dog these days. Waited a year to receive it. On the day you open up the package you find that the maker grossly oversized a pocket for 1 of 6 of the matching inlays and made up the difference with epoxy. Still content...? Obviously the horrible inlay work would not effect function of the cue, but anyone simply rolling cue from a distance will see the bad work.

I'm not meaning to test you here. Just get a sense of your stance on the general matter. I think maybe I'm simply not using an example that rings home for you.
I would probably return it, but I'm not the type of person to buy high end cues. I'm more utilitarian in most things. I like plain cues, probably a good thing because I can't really justify the extra funds for looks on my budget. :) I'm not cheap per se, but I don't like spending for looks.
A good company should not rely on or presume that their cilents should handle PR for them. If you want to be considered the top of the heap, then you should and expect your customers to hold you to the highest standard.
I agree, I don't think OP did anything wrong, but it may have been a good idea to talk to them first, but it's probably because I know the drama that can exist here.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Why pay $3k for a stick that shoots no better than a $600 one?
I can speak for myself here, as I played with the same $600 cue for my entire pool life up until very recently, when I happened to drop just over $3000k....lol

I just wanted something high end and pretty. Do I play any better with the new cue...? nope.
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
See, I'm not the type of person to buy such a cue. I care about playing and I'd rather have a plain jane cue (like I do now) that shoots great. Why pay $3k for a stick that shoots no better than a $600 one? In other words, it's different markets, a fancy cue has to look perfect, even if it plays perfect, it plays no better than a cheaper cue without inlays. You are literally buying art, not a utilitarian tool.

Pool tables... yeah you want it to look perfect, especially if you dropped $$$ on it, but a pool table is not a work of art. It's utilitarian. If it plays good I could let a lot slide on the looks department. I'm not talking OP's experience, just in general.

Not a better man, just one broken enough to know I can't worry about everything or I'll go nuts. 😬

I would probably return it, but I'm not the type of person to buy high end cues. I'm more utilitarian in most things. I like plain cues, probably a good thing because I can't really justify the extra funds for looks on my budget. :) I'm not cheap per se, but I don't like spending for looks.

I agree, I don't think OP did anything wrong, but it may have been a good idea to talk to them first, but it's probably because I know the drama that can exist here.
See, I'm not the type of person to buy such a cue. I care about playing and I'd rather have a plain jane cue (like I do now) that shoots great. Why pay $3k for a stick that shoots no better than a $600 one? In other words, it's different markets, a fancy cue has to look perfect, even if it plays perfect, it plays no better than a cheaper cue without inlays. You are literally buying art, not a utilitarian tool.

Pool tables... yeah you want it to look perfect, especially if you dropped $$$ on it, but a pool table is not a work of art. It's utilitarian. If it plays good I could let a lot slide on the looks department. I'm not talking OP's experience, just in general.

Not a better man, just one broken enough to know I can't worry about everything or I'll go nuts. 😬

I would probably return it, but I'm not the type of person to buy high end cues. I'm more utilitarian in most things. I like plain cues, probably a good thing because I can't really justify the extra funds for looks on my budget. :) I'm not cheap per se, but I don't like spending for looks.

I agree, I don't think OP did anything wrong, but it may have been a good idea to talk to them first, but it's probably because I know the drama that can exist here.
I'm with both of you. I'm just fine with my below $700 cues. But my question still remains partially unanswered. IF YOU WERE THE TYPE TO BUY SUCH A CUE, WOULD YOU NOT EXPECT PERFECTION??? It's a very simple question. It has a simple answer.... either way.

The guys that buy such cues (and you all can chime in at any time) are looking for perfection. If you are buying used, you want pictures, in detail, of any flaws that exist.... on the smallest detail. That way you know what you are paying for. Then you can decide for yourself if you see the value out weighs the depreciation do to flaws.

A table that costs $10000.00 deserves the same diligence, but that is my firm view on it.

It is logical.

But to each his own. I dont intend or expect to change anyones opinion, but i think it makes sense.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
For the second time you avoided my question. But I'll answer yours....
I played on a new Rosewood Diamond table at a friend's house in Michigan. I LOVED that table.

We played on it. I looked at it from every angle....even from laying on the floor. I tried to see every feature about it. It truly was flawless. Rails and sights included. It truly looking like a piece of art!

That's when I decided I will get one someday. I guess I expect ALL Diamond tables to be like his. Maybe I'm expecting too much.

Now answer my question.... and honestly.
Whats your question again?
 
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