A push out theory you've never heard lol

[9andout]

From my first league night. They put me in a group text and this happened. I was really trying to help. Somehow I knew it would draw one player out.
I normally would've crushed him (he deserved it) but I was in a nice mood! Haha
Sorry. I had screen shots up of the conversation but I forgot some of u guys might call him and bust his balls! I'll have to figure out how to block #'s out.
Here's a shot of the first post.
..
Then Him.......Please make sure to bring up the push bullshit again I don't use it because I don't understand it.
..
Me:I posted it as a general comment. There were at least 3 times it was an issue. It's part of the game. Not "bullshit". It's easy to understand with a clear explanation.
..
Him...I still think it's bullshit just keep shooting if you can see the shot find away to make it happen or play defense
..
Me...The push out can be offensive or defensive. Very strategic. At higher levels it can, and usually does determine the outcome of the game. Very important.

 

[garczar]

Gotta love leagues. Another reminder of why i quit them. Thanks for reminding me.

 

[cueman]

From my first league night. They put me in a group text and this happened. I was realky trying to help. Somehow I knew it would draw one player out.
I normally would've crushed him (he deserved it) but I was in a nice mood! Haha

Pushing out after the break rarely works out for a weak player. The stronger player will be better at any option the weaker player offers. But a weak player playing an equally weak player might benefit from learning some push out strategy.

 

[alphadog]

Pushing out after the break rarely works out for a weak player. The stronger player will be better at any option the weaker player offers. But a weak player playing an equally weak player might benefit from learning some push out strategy.

It is rare that anything works out for weak players. It is like everything-- they at least have to try.

 

[easy-e]

I

From my first league night. They put me in a group text and this happened. I was really trying to help. Somehow I knew it would draw one player out.
I normally would've crushed him (he deserved it) but I was in a nice mood! Haha
Sorry. I had screen shots up of the conversation but I forgot some of u guys might call him and bust his balls! I'll have to figure out how to block #'s out.
Here's a shot of the first post.
..
Then Him.......Please make sure to bring up the push bullshit again I don't use it because I don't understand it.
..
Me:I posted it as a general comment. There were at least 3 times it was an issue. It's part of the game. Not "bullshit". It's easy to understand with a clear explanation.
..
Him...I still think it's bullshit just keep shooting if you can see the shot find away to make it happen or play defense
..
Me...The push out can be offensive or defensive. Very strategic. At higher levels it can, and usually does determine the outcome of the game. Very important.

If I were that guy, I would roll my eyes at anyone who popped in for a night and then tried to teach the team a lesson on anything. You have a very good point about the importance of push outs, but not everyone wants to be taught. They're clearly comfortable with where they are, and if it bothers you, you shouldn't play anymore.

 

[surffisher2a]

most league players that I play with are not capable of running out a 9 ball rack on any consistent basis (including me). So pushing out after the break isn't really doesn't make a difference in 99% of games since both players typically have multiple chances at the table. I can see at the higher level players who have the capability to string racks together that it makes a HUGE difference in the game. Let's face it, with pro's the break decided most 9 ball racks.

I will say I wish APA would allow push outs in standard league play since its a ball count scoring. There is nothing more frustrating then getting an unlucky roll on the break and giving a higher skill level ball in hand and watching them run 6 or 7 balls rack after rack. I am assuming the reason they don't do it is exactly what is being described in this thread of people (typical league players) not taking the 5 minutes to learn / understand the rule.

 

[fastone371]

I

If I were that guy, I would roll my eyes at anyone who popped in for a night and then tried to teach the team a lesson on anything. You have a very good point about the importance of push outs, but not everyone wants to be taught. They're clearly comfortable with where they are, and if it bothers you, you shouldn't play anymore.

At minimum even if he doesn't teach them about the benefits of pushing out they should at least know the rules if they are going to play 9 ball. I don't blame him for trying to enlighten them, its something they should know.

 

[easy-e]

At minimum even if he doesn't teach them about the benefits of pushing out they should at least know the rules if they are going to play 9 ball. I don't blame him for trying to enlighten them, its something they should know.

I think they should know it too. I just think it could come off the wrong way having an outsider coming in to sub and start teaching the rest of the team the rules. Maybe share a drink or two with someone before trying to tell them where they need to improve. Just my take on it.

 

[libtrucker]

Ive played league at some bars, and have played defense and get accused of "cheating"

LMAO!!

 

[9andout]

It wasn

I

If I were that guy, I would roll my eyes at anyone who popped in for a night and then tried to teach the team a lesson on anything. You have a very good point about the importance of push outs, but not everyone wants to be taught. They're clearly comfortable with where they are, and if it bothers you, you shouldn't play anymore.

It wasn't like that at all. I told the coach to tell him to pass it back. There was more than one instance with the team. That's why I posted it on the team text.
There was one other guy (his long time teammate) telling him the same thing.
He's just one of those guys who can't be "told" anything apparently. His reaction in the text proved that. I didn't single him out but he definitely felt that way.
The other guy who said: "I never heard of it" didn't get mad or say a word and might actually want to learn.
Since I might not play again, I plan to offer to meet any player that wants to shoot before their match at the same bar for practice.
I'm not hanging until midnight again.

Pushing out after the break rarely works out for a weak player. The stronger player will be better at any option the weaker player offers. But a weak player playing an equally weak player might benefit from learning some push out strategy.

Two weak players. The one on our team fired a prayer kick shot instead of passing it back. He was 99.9% guaranteed BIH.

 

[boogieman]

It is rare that anything works out for weak players. It is like everything-- they at least have to try.

The story of my pool life! Well, it's a trick shot with no reward but I can at least make it and hope for a lucky roll. Worst case scenario I can practice my jump shot or 2 rail kicks!

*Watches cue ball closely and acts like I meant for it to happen.

boogie < only being somewhat facetious

 

[hang-the-9]

Pool league teams can be a funny thing. I just joined a team made of pretty weak players. In the 3 coaching times I was at the table, the players not only did not do what I said, they did the exact opposite. I said to hit going one way, the guy hits it the other way, said to start the run at this end of the table, guy starts it on the opposite end, said to use some right spin, guy hits it level and scratches. I may not last long as part of this team LOL

 

[Swighey]

most league players that I play with are not capable of running out a 9 ball rack on any consistent basis (including me). So pushing out after the break isn't really doesn't make a difference in 99% of games since both players typically have multiple chances at the table. I can see at the higher level players who have the capability to string racks together that it makes a HUGE difference in the game. Let's face it, with pro's the break decided most 9 ball racks.

I will say I wish APA would allow push outs in standard league play since its a ball count scoring. There is nothing more frustrating then getting an unlucky roll on the break and giving a higher skill level ball in hand and watching them run 6 or 7 balls rack after rack. I am assuming the reason they don't do it is exactly what is being described in this thread of people (typical league players) not taking the 5 minutes to learn / understand the rule.

A better solution would be not to have ball point scoring. They should allow push outs anyway because of the random layout of the balls after the break. When a rule's a rule people learn it in no time, and when everyone knows it newbies learn it double quick.

 

[hang-the-9]

A better solution would be not to have ball point scoring. They should allow push outs anyway because of the random layout of the balls after the break. When a rule's a rule people learn it in no time, and when everyone knows it newbies learn it double quick.

I can never figure out some of the APA rules, they say it's to help newer players but not having a push out hurts weaker players a lot more than the good ones since they can't kick as well. Or do anything as well as someone already pointed out. I'd rather have a 2 or a 3 have the ability to push out rather than just give ball in hand to someone when they miss a hit.

 

[buckshotshoey]

There are several things I've learned being a team captain over the years... occasionally there are some people that think they know everything, or are just not good at taking advice. There are some people that are willing to learn.

But I have also learned you do not try to give advice on technique in the middle of a match. That should be reserved for the practice table or when you're having a beer together.

 

[Swighey]

There are several things I've learned being a team captain over the years... occasionally there are some people that think they know everything, or are just not good at taking advice. There are some people that are willing to learn.

But I have also learned you do not try to give advice on technique in the middle of a match. That should be reserved for the practice table or when you're having a beer together.

Couldn't agree more. Players of all levels have stuff running through their head when they are playing cold, playing for a team, and playing under pressure. The last thing a weaker player needs is a stronger player running through their head when other stuff is running through their head. Also, it's much easier to play a shot when you are not at the table.

 

[Bob Jewett]

A better solution would be not to have ball point scoring. They should allow push outs anyway because of the random layout of the balls after the break. When a rule's a rule people learn it in no time, and when everyone knows it newbies learn it double quick.

Here are the APA rules.

http://media.poolplayers.com/TMRB/Rules-Booklet-English.pdf

You may find them interesting.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Here's a simple push-out theory that was worked out a long time ago:

Push out to where your opponent is 50% to give it back to you. Less than 50% -- you made it too easy. Greater than 50% -- you made it too hard.

That assumes your opponent knows what he's doing. Also, pushing out to your favorite specialty shot is an exception -- you want your opponent to pass. An example would be if you think you jump much better than your opponent.

 

[9andout]

Pool league teams can be a funny thing. I just joined a team made of pretty weak players. In the 3 coaching times I was at the table, the players not only did not do what I said, they did the exact opposite. I said to hit going one way, the guy hits it the other way, said to start the run at this end of the table, guy starts it on the opposite end, said to use some right spin, guy hits it level and scratches. I may not last long as part of this team LOL

That seems to be the norm.
The "know it all" attitude definitely affects the pool world.
Here's a rarity. My cousin, is weaker / new player.
I recently took him to the US Open in AC.
He LOVED it!
I asked him if he wanted to start coming over to play again and really practice some things to get better.
He said: "I would really appreciate that! I can't wait to learn more."
VERY refreshing.
He's around 40 and has a great attitude.
His night off just happens to be the same as that league. Glad for that. I'll try another league another time. Maybe.
*He was having a blast in AC. Learning "new" terms like "on the hill" "three pack" "break and run" lol He was like a sponge.
Like I said. Very refreshing!
Hoping we can enter a Scotch Doubles tournament together someday.

 

[boogieman]

Here's a simple push-out theory that was worked out a long time ago:

Push out to where your opponent is 50% to give it back to you. Less than 50% -- you made it too easy. Greater than 50% -- you made it too hard.

That assumes your opponent knows what he's doing. Also, pushing out to your favorite specialty shot is an exception -- you want your opponent to pass. An example would be if you think you jump much better than your opponent.

I like to push out to a real low probability shot where they can see the ball if I'm playing with an aggressive shooter. They will almost always take it and miss, if they give it back I'll play safe and try to get BIH or leave them with another terrible shot. The only trouble is, this trap only works a couple times unless they aren't quick learners.