deflection question

dendweller

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
I've read different things about how the amount of deflection is related to how hard the cue ball is struck.

Some say the harder you hit the cue ball, the more it deflects. Some say that it always deflects by the same amount,
it's just that when it's hit hard the cue ball swerve doesn't take as well so doesn't have a chance to counteract
the deflection.

Curious what people here think.
Thanks
 

anbukev

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've read different things about how the amount of deflection is related to how hard the cue ball is struck.

Some say the harder you hit the cue ball, the more it deflects. Some say that it always deflects by the same amount,
it's just that when it's hit hard the cue ball swerve doesn't take as well so doesn't have a chance to counteract
the deflection.

Curious what people here think.
Thanks
From Dr. Dave's website:

https://billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/effects/

Squirt:

  1. Squirt increases with the amount of sidespin.
  2. Squirt does not depend on shot speed (although, squerve does; see squirt speed effects for more info).
  3. Squirt increases with the amount of shaft endmass (e.g., a low-squirt cue has less endmass and results in less squirt).
  4. Squirt is slightly less with a heavier CB and slightly more with a lighter CB (see CB weight effects).
Swerve:

  1. Swerve increases with cue elevation and the amount of sidespin.
  2. Swerve occurs with practically all sidespin shots because the cue must be elevated to clear the rails.
  3. Swerve is delayed with faster shot speed.
  4. Swerve occurs only while the CB is sliding; once rolling begins, the CB heads in a straight line.
  5. Swerve occurs earlier with sticky cloth and later on slick cloth.
  6. Swerve occurs earlier with a follow shot than with a draw shot (see “Squirt – Part VIII: squerve effects” – BD, March, 2008).
  7. Swerve angle is larger with a draw shot than with a follow shot (see “Squirt – Part VIII: squerve effects” – BD, March, 2008).
  8. Swerve angle can be predicted and visualized using the Coriolis massé-shot aiming system.
Squerve:

  1. Squerve (net effect of squirt and swerve = net CB deflection) can be zero with certain speeds and cue elevations for a given shot distance, amount of sidespin, and cue.
  2. Squerve is less for follow vs. draw shots (see squirt tip-contact-height effects).
  3. Squirt or squerve can be canceled using back-hand english (BHE) and/or front-hand english (FHE) aim-and-pivot methods.
 

dendweller

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
From Dr. Dave's website:

https://billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/effects/

Squirt:

  1. Squirt increases with the amount of sidespin.
  2. Squirt does not depend on shot speed (although, squerve does; see squirt speed effects for more info).
  3. Squirt increases with the amount of shaft endmass (e.g., a low-squirt cue has less endmass and results in less squirt).
  4. Squirt is slightly less with a heavier CB and slightly more with a lighter CB (see CB weight effects).
Swerve:

  1. Swerve increases with cue elevation and the amount of sidespin.
  2. Swerve occurs with practically all sidespin shots because the cue must be elevated to clear the rails.
  3. Swerve is delayed with faster shot speed.
  4. Swerve occurs only while the CB is sliding; once rolling begins, the CB heads in a straight line.
  5. Swerve occurs earlier with sticky cloth and later on slick cloth.
  6. Swerve occurs earlier with a follow shot than with a draw shot (see “Squirt – Part VIII: squerve effects” – BD, March, 2008).
  7. Swerve angle is larger with a draw shot than with a follow shot (see “Squirt – Part VIII: squerve effects” – BD, March, 2008).
  8. Swerve angle can be predicted and visualized using the Coriolis massé-shot aiming system.
Squerve:

  1. Squerve (net effect of squirt and swerve = net CB deflection) can be zero with certain speeds and cue elevations for a given shot distance, amount of sidespin, and cue.
  2. Squerve is less for follow vs. draw shots (see squirt tip-contact-height effects).
  3. Squirt or squerve can be canceled using back-hand english (BHE) and/or front-hand english (FHE) aim-and-pivot methods.
Thanks

So when people say the predator vantage deflects the same no matter how hard it's hit it's really a true statement for any cue. And the only way it's really true is if Predator has figured out a way to make swerve delay the same no matter how hard the shot.
 
Last edited:

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Thanks

So when people say the predator vantage deflects the same no matter how hard it's hit it's really a true statement for any cue.
Yes, minus a variable amount of swerve (depending on speed, butt elevation, tip offset, cloth condition, etc.).

And the only way it's really true is if Predator has figured out a way to make swerve delay the same no matter how hard the shot.
I don't know what "really true" means, but every cue has a "pure squirt" amount (squirt with no counteracting swerve) that's the same for a given tip offset no matter how hard the hit.

And of course it's impossible for a shaft to make all swerve the same.

pj
chgo
 

dendweller

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Yes, minus a variable amount of swerve (depending on speed, butt elevation, tip offset, cloth condition, etc.).


I don't know what "really true" means, but every cue has a "pure squirt" amount (squirt with no counteracting swerve) that's the same for a given tip offset no matter how hard the hit.

And of course it's impossible for a shaft to make all swerve the same.

pj
chgo
I was under the false impression that the harder the shot, the greater the deflection.

I was considering buying the vantage because of the reviews I've seen saying the deflection stayed the same when you shot harder. There are a few.

So my statement was just me realizing that the quality I was interested in with the vantage is actually true for all shafts, that's all.
 

Woodshaft

Do what works for YOU!
I went from a vantage (that I used for about a year) to a revo 12.9 (for about 8 months) then back to the vantage. They have about the same low-deflection imo, but I feel I aim better with the wood shaft vantage. I'm 55, and my eyes "see" the light-colored wood better than the black cf.
 
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